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critical_beatdown
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 2072
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 Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| vvbandit wrote: | | Im yet to see B Wallace drop a ball or have it knocked out of his hands while going for rebounds. Until those two things get fixed and his mental issues he will never be Ben Wallace |
Big Ben does some pretty funny stuff, like running out of bounds while trying to create a layup, which he did in our game on Saturday.
Not sure how you missed that.
He's no offensive threat, whether he catches the ball or not. |
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chase265
Rookie
Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| Coca James wrote: | | Kwame has all the physical tools to be better than Big Ben.. just dont know if he has the heart, drive, passion, or intelligence |
I agree 100% with your comment |
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viper2
Star Player
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 1297
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| Whats Kwame's vertical ? Anybody know ? |
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Klone_dd
Star Player
Joined: 11 Mar 2002
Posts: 7330
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:32 am Post subject: |
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I'd be happy if he became Ben Wallace-lite on a nightly basis.
I was chanting this during the game Saturday: "Be Like Ben. Be Like Ben." |
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Mjr. Pwnage
Starting Rotation
Joined: 11 Feb 2003
Posts: 472
Location: La Tierra De Los Gauchos
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| PhunkyPhil wrote: | | I believe in anybody that puts on purple and gold. |
Benoit Benjamin?
_________________
You tryin' to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball? |
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PhunkyPhil
Starting Rotation
Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 186
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| TG711 wrote: | | PhunkyPhil wrote: | | I believe in anybody that puts on purple and gold. |
Benoit Benjamin? |
Even Better, Mike Smreck, Sam Bowie and JR Rider. I BELIEVE!! |
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Alpha
Moderator
Joined: 07 Jul 2002
Posts: 25149
Location: hawaii
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| LTD wrote: | Personally, i don't think kwame's smart enough nor does he have the mindset to be like Big Ben. A good amount of the time, undrafted players are more than willing to fill roles like BW's because they appreciate the fact that they are even in the NBA. I found out all I needed to know about Kwame when Phil asked him what he thought about Big ben's 17 rebound and no points game.
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What did he say? |
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turbulent
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 1481
Location: Downey,cali
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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NEXT..read my sig.
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I will HAVE SOME LOVE for Kwame..(keep it up big man) |
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vvbandit
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 2413
Location: Newport Coast
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| critical_beatdown wrote: | | vvbandit wrote: | | Im yet to see B Wallace drop a ball or have it knocked out of his hands while going for rebounds. Until those two things get fixed and his mental issues he will never be Ben Wallace |
Big Ben does some pretty funny stuff, like running out of bounds while trying to create a layup, which he did in our game on Saturday.
Not sure how you missed that.
He's no offensive threat, whether he catches the ball or not. |
I never said he was an offensive threat, but when the pass is made to him he usually can finish with a dunk. When rebounding his hands become even more important while Kwames stand out even more. Kwame routinely has the ball knocked out of his hands from behind while going for rebounds. He has a long way to go to be a big ben player. |
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Lemuel
Sixth Man
Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Can he be? Yes. Will he be? No. |
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he_is_the_one
Star Player
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 1217
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| I think Kwame has got the potential to be a great player, but I don't believe he'll become a better player than Big Ben. |
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pjiddy
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 29077
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| There are few players in the league that play with as much heart as Ben Wallace. The guy also has a great nose for the ball and goes for it with wreckless abandon. Watching that Pistons game the other night, I saw 3 or 4 instances where the ball was in Kwame's vicinity and he made no effort for it. It was the same with Rodman (as Ben, not Kwame). Rodman would actually study MJ and Scottie's shots in practice to see how their misses would go off the rim/backboard. In games, he would throw himself into CHAIRS to get loose balls. Do you see that kind of passion in Kwame? No. I know we want to feel like that Kwame could be a great player in SOME capacity, but don't waste high expectations on this guy. |
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trmiv
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2001
Posts: 17659
Location: Orlando
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Alpha wrote: | | LTD wrote: | Personally, i don't think kwame's smart enough nor does he have the mindset to be like Big Ben. A good amount of the time, undrafted players are more than willing to fill roles like BW's because they appreciate the fact that they are even in the NBA. I found out all I needed to know about Kwame when Phil asked him what he thought about Big ben's 17 rebound and no points game.
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What did he say? |
Something about wanting to score more. |
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Texas_Pete
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 12825
Location: Somewhere watching a Laker game
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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There is still hope for Kwame. He is still a young player. Let's compare him to Dennis Rodman at 25 (at age 23 he was not in the league).
86-87 DET 77 1 15.0 .545 .000 .587 2.10 2.20 4.30 .7 .49 .62 1.21 2.20 6.5
87-88 DET 82 32 26.2 .561 .294 .535 3.90 4.80 8.70 1.3 .91 .55 1.90 3.30 11.6
88-89 DET 82 8 26.9 .595 .231 .626 4.00 5.40 9.40 1.2 .67 .93 1.54 3.60 9.0
89-90 DET 82 43 29.0 .581 .111 .654 4.10 5.60 9.70 .9 .63 .73 1.10 3.40 8.8
90-91 DET 82 77 33.5 .493 .200 .631 4.40 8.10 12.50 1.0 .79 .67 1.15 3.40 8.2
91-92 DET 82 80 40.3 .539 .317 .600 6.40 12.30 18.70 2.3 .83 .85 1.71 3.00 9.8
92-93 DET 62 55 38.9 .427 .205 .534 5.90 12.30 18.30 1.6 .77 .73 1.66 3.20 7.5
93-94 SAS 79 51 37.8 .534 .208 .520 5.70 11.60 17.30 2.3 .66 .41 1.75 2.90 4.7
94-95 SAS 49 26 32.0 .571 .000 .676 5.60 11.20 16.80 2.0 .63 .47 2.00 3.20 7.1
95-96 CHI 64 57 32.6 .480 .111 .528 5.60 9.30 14.90 2.5 .56 .42 2.16 3.10 5.5
96-97 CHI 55 54 35.4 .448 .263 .568 5.80 10.20 16.10 3.1 .58 .35 2.02 3.10 5.7
97-98 CHI 80 66 35.7 .431 .174 .550 5.30 9.80 15.00 2.9 .59 .23 1.84 3.00 4.7
98-99 LAL 23 11 28.6 .348 .000 .436 2.70 8.50 11.20 1.3 .43 .52 1.35 3.10 2.1
99-00 DAL 12 12 32.4 .387 .000 .714 4.00 10.30 14.30 1.2 .17 .08 1.58 3.40 2.8
http://www.nba.com/history/players/rodman_stats.html
^^Did not average double digit rebounds until age 29. Avg 13 rpg for his career.
And Big Ben at 23:
Year Age Team Lg G Min Pts PPG FGM FGA FGP FTM FTA FTP 3PM 3PA 3PP ORB DRB TRB RPG AST APG STL BLK TO PF
1996-97 22 WA1 NBA 34 197 38 1.1 16 46 .348 6 20 .300 0 0 .000 25 33 58 1.7 2 0.1 8 11 18 27 Log
1997-98 23 WAS NBA 67 1124 205 3.1 85 164 .518 35 98 .357 0 0 .000 112 212 324 4.8 18 0.3 61 72 28 116 Log
1998-99 24 WAS NBA 46 1231 277 6.0 115 199 .578 47 132 .356 0 0 .000 137 247 384 8.3 18 0.4 50 90 36 111 Log
1999-00 25 ORL NBA 81 1951 389 4.8 166 330 .503 57 117 .487 0 0 .000 211 439 650 8.0 67 0.8 71 130 71 164 Log
2000-01 26 DET NBA 80 2760 511 6.4 215 439 .490 80 238 .336 1 4 .250 303 749 1052 13.2 123 1.5 107 186 117 192 Log
2001-02 27 DET NBA 80 2920 609 7.6 255 480 .531 99 234 .423 0 3 .000 64 975 1039 13.0 115 1.4 138 278 70 178 Log
2002-03 28 DET NBA 73 2873 506 6.9 210 437 .481 85 189 .450 1 6 .167 293 833 1126 15.4 120 1.6 104 230 88 179 A Log
2003-04 29 DET NBA 81 3050 773 9.5 315 748 .421 142 290 .490 1 8 .125 324 682 1006 12.4 138 1.7 143 246 123 162 A Log
2004-05 30 DET NBA 74 2672 721 9.7 295 651 .453 130 304 .428 1 9 .111 292 610 902 12.2 123 1.7 106 176 80 159 A Log
9 Season Totals 616 18778 4029 6.5 1672 3494 .479 681 1622 .420 4 30 .133 1761 4780 6541 10.6 724 1.2 788 1419 631 1288
http://www.databasebasketball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=WALLABE01
^^Did not average double digit rebounds until age 26.
Now Kwame:
2001-02 WAS 57 14.3 1.7 4.3 38.7 0.0 0.0 0.0 1.2 1.7 70.7 1.1 2.4 3.5 0.8 0.8 0.3 0.5 1.8 4.5
2002-03 WAS 80 22.2 2.8 6.3 44.6 0.0 0.0 0.0 1.8 2.7 66.8 1.6 3.7 5.3 0.7 1.4 0.6 1.0 2.0 7.4
2003-04 WAS 74 30.3 3.9 8.0 48.9 0.0 0.0 50.0 3.1 4.5 68.3 2.4 5.0 7.4 1.5 1.9 0.9 0.7 2.0 10.9
2004-05 WAS 42 21.6 2.6 5.6 46.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 1.8 3.1 57.4 1.7 3.2 4.9 0.9 1.6 0.6 0.4 2.7 7.0
2005-06 LAL 50 25.3 2.3 4.9 47.3 0.0 0.0 0.0 1.3 2.5 51.2 2.3 3.6 5.9 0.8 1.4 0.3 0.6 2.7 5.9
Career 303 23.1 2.7 6.0 45.8 0.0 0.0 14.3 1.9 3.0 64.2 1.8 3.7 5.5 1.0 1.4 0.6 0.7 2.2 7.4
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3511/career
So I would argue that Kwame compared to these two quite well at similar stages of their career. It remains to be seen whether he can play at the levels they reached during their respective careers. As a Laker fan, I hope he does while HERE. |
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CrimsonLaker
Star Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 2268
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Kwame isn't a matador on offense. Kwame is a prolific scorer. The guy is a beast on offense. He's dealing with a long term injury that he's correcting...so when he says he wants to score more, he should. Big Ben has NO offensive talent. Kwame has tons of offensive potential. Eventually Kwame is going to be a 20/10 player. Watch. |
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pjiddy
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 29077
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| CrimsonLaker wrote: | | Kwame isn't a matador on offense. Kwame is a prolific scorer. The guy is a beast on offense. He's dealing with a long term injury that he's correcting...so when he says he wants to score more, he should. Big Ben has NO offensive talent. Kwame has tons of offensive potential. Eventually Kwame is going to be a 20/10 player. Watch. |
Wow. Are you insane? |
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RJBaca
Star Player
Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 2050
Location: Costa Rica
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| I think he'll be better. |
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pjiddy
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 29077
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| I am calling for a moratorium on Big Ben/Rodman comparisons for Kwame on account of being patently ridiculous. Those two guys played with tremendous amounts of heart and were SMART players. Kwame has a low b-ball IQ, has zero poise and no heart. |
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CrimsonLaker
Star Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 2268
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | CrimsonLaker wrote: | | Kwame isn't a matador on offense. Kwame is a prolific scorer. The guy is a beast on offense. He's dealing with a long term injury that he's correcting...so when he says he wants to score more, he should. Big Ben has NO offensive talent. Kwame has tons of offensive potential. Eventually Kwame is going to be a 20/10 player. Watch. |
Wow. Are you insane? |
Yes, but what of it? |
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CrimsonLaker
Star Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 2268
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | I am calling for a moratorium on Big Ben/Rodman comparisons for Kwame on account of being patently ridiculous. Those two guys played with tremendous amounts of heart and were SMART players. Kwame has a low b-ball IQ, has zero poise and no heart. |
Erroneous! Erroneous! I've never heard smart and Rodman in the same paragraph before. Also, Kwame has never been taught the game. He was drafted on pure physical talent and expected to come in and dominate from HS. He failed in WAS as a result. Now he is in a system where he is learning how to play basketball. Learning how to pick his spots, and learning the nuaces of the system. In terms of spacing and movement, Kwame is the most gifted offensive player. Aside from Kobe Bryant, Kwame is the only other person who is consistently in the right spot at the right time. Yes, he still makes mistakes. Yes, he can't catch. Yes, he's inconsistent. But he is also learning, growing, and developing. He is a project, just the same as bynum with the expectation that he will play right away. Let him learn and grow and watch him become a force. |
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angel
Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 14226
Location: city of angels
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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I would like to see Kwame get back to his third season numbers by the end of this season. (10.9/7.4) Next season, he might significatly improve. A 23 year old power player is still very young.
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"Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." ~~Martin Luther King Jr.~~ |
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RavishingRuWooba
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Joined: 11 Nov 2002
Posts: 600
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Big Ben is the Italian Stallion, no one believed in him.
Kwame is a stallion, everyone used to believe in him
Big Ben is the I-talian Stallion...he will drive that stallion, his body, until it's all used up and hobbling on its last arthritic leg. When he's done, you'll know it, because he'll barely be able to walk off the court...oh what a beating he did take, BUT also, OH what a beating he gave...in the judgement of his peers who stand up and give him a standing ovation as he walks off into the sunset knowing, everyone knowing, even Adrian way up in the rafters sobbing with a box of Kleenex and her Academy Award, that he left it all on the court.
Kwame on the other hand is simply a stallion...nice to look at it, but "it" kind of just sits there all the time, you know, wondering, moping, what to do with itself and stuff; and then one day, "it" kind of just dawns, the body retires and enjoys a good life.
That's the perception...it's up to Kwame to rewrite the history books, drop the game tapes, and instead get himself a rental card from Blockbuster, and start "critically analyzing" BLOW by...let freedom ring...BLOW. |
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ppineda
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Joined: 12 Aug 2003
Posts: 701
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | I am calling for a moratorium on Big Ben/Rodman comparisons for Kwame on account of being patently ridiculous. Those two guys played with tremendous amounts of heart and were SMART players. Kwame has a low b-ball IQ, has zero poise and no heart. |
If this happened today, it would be half a season too late. |
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TLT
Star Player
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1025
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Coca James wrote: | | Kwame has all the physical tools to be better than Big Ben.. just dont know if he has the heart, drive, passion, or intelligence |
One out of five isn't bad......Is it? |
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Scherm
Star Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 4155
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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Kwame's a better free throw shooter  |
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