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JerryWest_44
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Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 25319
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 Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Kobe2Lamar wrote: | | Rhythm my ass. How do you criticize 42 pts on 55%? The other players need to step the fukk up... |
I agree -- Cook, Smush et. al. were clanking shots all night |
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OshadowO
Star Player
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Posts: 7356
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| the real question is why phil didn't go with a more defensive lineup once we started getting burned. Called the time out too late as usual in the 3rd. Blame PJ again for the third. He knows we're susceptible to breakdowns, so when you see it start call the freaking time out! |
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JuiceMonkey
Star Player
Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 1169
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Sister Golden Hair wrote: | | tenguygrst wrote: | | rpadma12 wrote: | This is exactly what happens almost everytime we play the Spurs in the recent years.
Kobe takes it upon himself to beat the Spurs and falls into their trap because they would love for Kobe to disrupt the rythm. Kobe was defenitely fouled many times and it wasn't called. But, it's time Kobe realizes that he won't get the calls against Spurs. If Kobe doesn't learn this, one would have to question his motive.
Bad offense led to poor defense in the third. |
excellent, another person that gets this...kobe playing that way plays exactly into what the spurs want him to do. its something i put in that thread "matchup with the spurs" when i said kobe needs to stay within himself and within the offense and not get into a personal battle. the spurs just seem to have gotten into his head or something. so waht if fouls werent called, spurs didnt get many calls either, the guy needs to adjust and tonite he kept forcing it while the lead kept growing. and the spectacular heroics were useless tonite because it was too late. |
Uh, I don't know what game you were watching, but that game was lost completely on the defensive end. Questionable strategy and appalling execution.
You guys focus waaaaay to much on the offense as does Phil apparently, because on defsnse, this team plays like five headless chickens.
Offense was the leats of their problems. Smart defensive play with effort for 48 minutes and usually good thinsg will happen. Offense comes and goes. And when a team is as offensively challeneged as this one is, that will be gtruer than ever. But you simply can't let other team shoot damn near 60% from the arc. That only happens to teams that have no clue about defense.
SGH |
if u read my other posts i did say that defense was the culprit tonite, but i would also say the spurs made a lot of contested shots and they dont normally shoot that well from the outside so i doubt they'll be this good from the outside when we play them again. but off of everyone of kobe's forces, they scored and the lead kept growing, thats where i think some of us are saying our offense "tied in" to our defense. it was more just a snowball effect, kobe misses, manu 3, kobe misses manu 3, kobe misses, duncan layup...all of a sudden we're down by 15 and we cant dig ourselves out of that hole. |
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aiel
Star Player
Joined: 16 May 2001
Posts: 1211
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Sure part of the reason the lead for SA bloomed was due to kobes shot selection early in the third, but to blame him for this loss is incorrect. If the team could contain dribble penetration which creates open 3's, kobes hot 4 quarter shooting would have won the game. Again it's defense thats the main problem. I don't think we have players with enough speed and quickness to recover to the open perimeter shooter. ANd thats why the lakers are 0 and 7 against this team. |
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RedSnapper
Star Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 1690
Location: Torrance, CA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know enough about the nuances of this game to really make an informed comment, so I'll just give my impression.
I get the impression that Phil has been exposed. He's a good game planner, a good executive, and a good psychologist for veteran players. He is used to being able to give them game plans, and have them executed, with adjustments made by the players on the fly, because they have seen them before, and they know the concepts.
Phil does not know how to manage a game with a young team. He's unable to bring himself to draw stuff out for them to make adjustments (on defense, in particular) that will stop the hemmorhaging.
Phil excoriated his players for failing to make adjustments - for playing as though what worked against one team would work against the next.
When he offers up that particular criticism, I think he would do well to take a look in the mirror. He has not proven to be particularly adaptable in his methods with a young, inexperienced, and fragile team.
I don't think this team is as bad as it often plays. I do believe there are a half dozen coaches that could be getting more out of them right now than Phil is. I just hope that the price paid today will return dividends in later accomplishments as the players pass through their baptism of fire.
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Trevacious
Star Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1833
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | He knows we're susceptible to breakdowns, so when you see it start call the freaking time out! |
Perhaps he's thinking, "If I call a time out, they won't learn anything." |
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OshadowO
Star Player
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Posts: 7356
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Trevacious wrote: | | Quote: | | He knows we're susceptible to breakdowns, so when you see it start call the freaking time out! |
Perhaps he's thinking, "If I call a time out, they won't learn anything." |
I think if its happening for the 55th time in the same season its due some consideration :p |
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RedSnapper
Star Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 1690
Location: Torrance, CA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Trevacious wrote: | | Quote: | | He knows we're susceptible to breakdowns, so when you see it start call the freaking time out! |
Perhaps he's thinking, "If I call a time out, they won't learn anything." |
What he should be thinking is "If I don't teach them anything, they won't learn anything," followed very quickly by, "hey! This is a 'teachable moment'! I should call a time out!"
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heineken
Star Player
Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 1601
Location: Lakers Bench
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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Poor defense in the 3rd created a lot of problems. We couldn't come up with any stops. If you want to look back to the biggest problem. That clearly was it. Dribble penetration and open 3 point shots. We gave away too many good looks and layups. If you give up 36 points to the Spurs in a quarter typically you lose.
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Sister Golden Hair
Franchise Player
Joined: 01 May 2001
Posts: 15872
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| tenguygrst wrote: | | Sister Golden Hair wrote: | | tenguygrst wrote: | | rpadma12 wrote: | This is exactly what happens almost everytime we play the Spurs in the recent years.
Kobe takes it upon himself to beat the Spurs and falls into their trap because they would love for Kobe to disrupt the rythm. Kobe was defenitely fouled many times and it wasn't called. But, it's time Kobe realizes that he won't get the calls against Spurs. If Kobe doesn't learn this, one would have to question his motive.
Bad offense led to poor defense in the third. |
excellent, another person that gets this...kobe playing that way plays exactly into what the spurs want him to do. its something i put in that thread "matchup with the spurs" when i said kobe needs to stay within himself and within the offense and not get into a personal battle. the spurs just seem to have gotten into his head or something. so waht if fouls werent called, spurs didnt get many calls either, the guy needs to adjust and tonite he kept forcing it while the lead kept growing. and the spectacular heroics were useless tonite because it was too late. |
Uh, I don't know what game you were watching, but that game was lost completely on the defensive end. Questionable strategy and appalling execution.
You guys focus waaaaay to much on the offense as does Phil apparently, because on defsnse, this team plays like five headless chickens.
Offense was the leats of their problems. Smart defensive play with effort for 48 minutes and usually good thinsg will happen. Offense comes and goes. And when a team is as offensively challeneged as this one is, that will be gtruer than ever. But you simply can't let other team shoot damn near 60% from the arc. That only happens to teams that have no clue about defense.
SGH |
if u read my other posts i did say that defense was the culprit tonite, but i would also say the spurs made a lot of contested shots and they dont normally shoot that well from the outside so i doubt they'll be this good from the outside when we play them again. but off of everyone of kobe's forces, they scored and the lead kept growing, thats where i think some of us are saying our offense "tied in" to our defense. it was more just a snowball effect, kobe misses, manu 3, kobe misses manu 3, kobe misses, duncan layup...all of a sudden we're down by 15 and we cant dig ourselves out of that hole. |
Seems to me that most of their long-range shots were uncontested. Running out at a guy after he's set his feet, measured his shot, calibrated wind-resistence, etc., doesn't amount to a contested shot. Those were YMCA-level open threes. It was a turkey shoot.
SGH |
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JuiceMonkey
Star Player
Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 1169
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Sister Golden Hair wrote: | | tenguygrst wrote: | | Sister Golden Hair wrote: | | tenguygrst wrote: | | rpadma12 wrote: | This is exactly what happens almost everytime we play the Spurs in the recent years.
Kobe takes it upon himself to beat the Spurs and falls into their trap because they would love for Kobe to disrupt the rythm. Kobe was defenitely fouled many times and it wasn't called. But, it's time Kobe realizes that he won't get the calls against Spurs. If Kobe doesn't learn this, one would have to question his motive.
Bad offense led to poor defense in the third. |
excellent, another person that gets this...kobe playing that way plays exactly into what the spurs want him to do. its something i put in that thread "matchup with the spurs" when i said kobe needs to stay within himself and within the offense and not get into a personal battle. the spurs just seem to have gotten into his head or something. so waht if fouls werent called, spurs didnt get many calls either, the guy needs to adjust and tonite he kept forcing it while the lead kept growing. and the spectacular heroics were useless tonite because it was too late. |
Uh, I don't know what game you were watching, but that game was lost completely on the defensive end. Questionable strategy and appalling execution.
You guys focus waaaaay to much on the offense as does Phil apparently, because on defsnse, this team plays like five headless chickens.
Offense was the leats of their problems. Smart defensive play with effort for 48 minutes and usually good thinsg will happen. Offense comes and goes. And when a team is as offensively challeneged as this one is, that will be gtruer than ever. But you simply can't let other team shoot damn near 60% from the arc. That only happens to teams that have no clue about defense.
SGH |
if u read my other posts i did say that defense was the culprit tonite, but i would also say the spurs made a lot of contested shots and they dont normally shoot that well from the outside so i doubt they'll be this good from the outside when we play them again. but off of everyone of kobe's forces, they scored and the lead kept growing, thats where i think some of us are saying our offense "tied in" to our defense. it was more just a snowball effect, kobe misses, manu 3, kobe misses manu 3, kobe misses, duncan layup...all of a sudden we're down by 15 and we cant dig ourselves out of that hole. |
Seems to me that most of their long-range shots were uncontested. Running out at a guy after he's set his feet, measured his shot, calibrated wind-resistence, etc., doesn't amount to a contested shot. Those were YMCA-level open threes. It was a turkey shoot.
SGH |
finley made some pretty tough shots, a couple of manu's were guys not getting close enough to him but lakers managed to get a hand up just about each shot. parker's penetration set up a lot of those 3's because we couldnt rotate. this goes mostly on smush but it wasnt like these 3's were shot with nobody within 10 feet of them. the spurs made some contested shots, they dont shoot that well every night. finley made some really tough shots. |
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Mike@LG
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Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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Seems to me that most of their long-range shots were uncontested. Running out at a guy after he's set his feet, measured his shot, calibrated wind-resistence, etc., doesn't amount to a contested shot. Those were YMCA-level open threes. It was a turkey shoot.
SGH |
Agreed. Frustrating.
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https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
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Kobe2Clark
Star Player
Joined: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 6047
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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I understand letting Kobe rest on nights they play B-level 2guards but Lamar cannot guard guys like Manu or Mobely. Get JJ into the rotation!!!
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"My thirst for domination is fed only by the game. I refuse to get distracted by outside forces." - Kobe Bryant |
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kobenbynum
Star Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 1276
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| hoopschick29 wrote: | | Luke and Sasha playing at the same time....talk about a death wish. |
Bimgo! I don't understand why Phil keeps doing that. |
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Stylistic Stylez
Star Player
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 4336
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| hoopschick29 wrote: | | Luke and Sasha playing at the same time....talk about a death wish. |
couldnt of put it any more clear and i gotta agree with u |
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Stylistic Stylez
Star Player
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 4336
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| why the hell does phil play luke...no seriously...luke should never shoot in his life. and he needs to take his paycheck and go get his tattoo lasered off or something..cuz that tattoo makes his shot screwed up |
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lakerfin
Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Jun 2005
Posts: 633
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Sister Golden Hair wrote: | | tenguygrst wrote: | | rpadma12 wrote: | This is exactly what happens almost everytime we play the Spurs in the recent years.
Kobe takes it upon himself to beat the Spurs and falls into their trap because they would love for Kobe to disrupt the rythm. Kobe was defenitely fouled many times and it wasn't called. But, it's time Kobe realizes that he won't get the calls against Spurs. If Kobe doesn't learn this, one would have to question his motive.
Bad offense led to poor defense in the third. |
excellent, another person that gets this...kobe playing that way plays exactly into what the spurs want him to do. its something i put in that thread "matchup with the spurs" when i said kobe needs to stay within himself and within the offense and not get into a personal battle. the spurs just seem to have gotten into his head or something. so waht if fouls werent called, spurs didnt get many calls either, the guy needs to adjust and tonite he kept forcing it while the lead kept growing. and the spectacular heroics were useless tonite because it was too late. |
Uh, I don't know what game you were watching, but that game was lost completely on the defensive end. Questionable strategy and appalling execution.
You guys focus waaaaay to much on the offense as does Phil apparently, because on defsnse, this team plays like five headless chickens.
Offense was the leats of their problems. Smart defensive play with effort for 48 minutes and usually good thinsg will happen. Offense comes and goes. And when a team is as offensively challeneged as this one is, that will be gtruer than ever. But you simply can't let other team shoot damn near 60% from the arc. That only happens to teams that have no clue about defense.
SGH |
Have to agree. It has almost nothing to do with offense, how many shots Kobe took, how many points Kobe made, how many guys in double figures. Whatever, we played a good first half. Came out and played like dogs in the second, with NO defensive presence. It usually is, and was for sure all about defense tonight. To let Finley score like that off the bench?????? That's wack! |
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BraveHeartII
Star Player
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 1848
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:21 am Post subject: |
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Anyone getting sick at how little resistance Cook put up whenever he gets caught in a switch, or just when his man makes a move on him? In addition, he rarely seems to be able to make shots against top opponents, unless you kissed his butt. He's one of those guys that makes his living on the offensive end, yet only does that against weak competition. He is what you would call the opposite of a winner, or simply a choker.
Now I don't want to start Kwame because we've tried that and our offense seems to suffer when he and Mihm are on the floor. And Kwame seems more effective off the bench anyway.
That said, I really hope Phil gives Turiaf the start soon. He defends, rebounds, and can hit the midrange shot. In other words, he doesn't suffer from the one-way syndrome like the other two.
I really think we can do some damage with this group. Mihm is looking like he can hold his own against the elites. Smush's D isn't too bad in the big games(except against Tony Parker, but then he's shooting 55%.) We just need a competent PF. So, as my name would suggest, free Ronny!!! |
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BraveHeartII
Star Player
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 1848
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: |
Seems to me that most of their long-range shots were uncontested. Running out at a guy after he's set his feet, measured his shot, calibrated wind-resistence, etc., doesn't amount to a contested shot. Those were YMCA-level open threes. It was a turkey shoot.
SGH |
Agreed. Frustrating. |
Most of those shots were too far away to effectively contest without fouling(those are what I would considered wide open shots.) But that fadeaway two by Finley on the right side, I thought Odom should have jumped, consider how hot he was. Probably wouldn't have made a difference though. |
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THE_SHOES
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 29556
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| Kobe2Lamar wrote: | | Rhythm my ass. How do you criticize 42 pts on 55%? The other players need to step the fukk up... |
Step up with what? Trying to rebound? The system should have been ran just a little longer. Kobe taking over in the 4th might have worked in this game. He may have abandoned just a little earlier.
You can beat the Spurs if you keep them on there heels as much as possible. Make em shift, burn some of that energy.
The weird thing about this game however is that really we got Michael Finley'd to death. That was the real problem...
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"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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THE_SHOES
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 29556
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| Kobe2Lamar wrote: | | I understand letting Kobe rest on nights they play B-level 2guards but Lamar cannot guard guys like Manu or Mobely. Get JJ into the rotation!!! |
That wasn't the issue. The Lakers were completey confused by the Spurs offensive scheme. When Parker wasn't penetrating the Spurs were swinging the ball to wide open shooters, catching the Lakers rotating to slow... Manu wasn't beating anybody off the dribble, and neither was Finley. Those shots were the result of pure, and beautiful execution.
I just hope Phil has a plan for that (bleep) next game.
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"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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Ank
Star Player
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 1043
Location: New York, NY
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| Kobe2Lamar wrote: | | Rhythm my ass. How do you criticize 42 pts on 55%? The other players need to step the fukk up... |
It was 43 on 53%. And, this is one case where the stats are very deceptive. He had a good first half and a good 4th quarter. His 3rd was atrocious, but he didn't back off. He kept holding the ball and running everything. Calling for the ball and then keeping it even after his shot wasn't dropping. Taking tough shots. Kobe could have passed around a bit more in the 3rd. Then his 4th quarter craziness would have pulled us the win. |
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magic_bryant
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Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 18179
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:37 am Post subject: |
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| Ank wrote: | | Kobe2Lamar wrote: | | Rhythm my ass. How do you criticize 42 pts on 55%? The other players need to step the fukk up... |
It was 43 on 53%. And, this is one case where the stats are very deceptive. He had a good first half and a good 4th quarter. His 3rd was atrocious, but he didn't back off. He kept holding the ball and running everything. Calling for the ball and then keeping it even after his shot wasn't dropping. Taking tough shots. Kobe could have passed around a bit more in the 3rd. Then his 4th quarter craziness would have pulled us the win. |
Exactly. My thoughts exactly Ank.
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Stephon Marbury on Kobe: "He's the only person on 'dis earth that can do 'dat. He guards people, like shuts 'em down. Then, to do 'dat on 'da offensive end. It's like 'Damn, I can't score on him AND he about to bust my ass." |
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Drifts
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Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Posts: 28374
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| THE_SHOES wrote: | | Kobe2Lamar wrote: | | Rhythm my ass. How do you criticize 42 pts on 55%? The other players need to step the fukk up... |
Step up with what? Trying to rebound? The system should have been ran just a little longer. Kobe taking over in the 4th might have worked in this game. He may have abandoned just a little earlier.
You can beat the Spurs if you keep them on there heels as much as possible. Make em shift, burn some of that energy.
The weird thing about this game however is that really we got Michael Finley'd to death. That was the real problem... |
yeah...and LO was guarding Finley and Manu. 
PJ did nothing. No defensive adjustments at all. What an (bleep).
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"Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it." |
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Drifts
Retired Number
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Posts: 28374
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:11 am Post subject: |
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| Ank wrote: | | Kobe2Lamar wrote: | | Rhythm my ass. How do you criticize 42 pts on 55%? The other players need to step the fukk up... |
It was 43 on 53%. And, this is one case where the stats are very deceptive. He had a good first half and a good 4th quarter. His 3rd was atrocious, but he didn't back off. He kept holding the ball and running everything. Calling for the ball and then keeping it even after his shot wasn't dropping. Taking tough shots. Kobe could have passed around a bit more in the 3rd. Then his 4th quarter craziness would have pulled us the win. |
No one other than Kobe showed up to play in the 3rd, as usual. At least Kobe tried. Kobe was forced to shoot since he's surrounded with scrubs who can't shoot, and can't play defense...besides, we lost because the other teams small forwards had a field day shooting uncontested 3s.
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"Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it." |
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