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NY_LakerFan Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Posts: 1297
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:24 am Post subject: |
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This is unFREAKINbelievable.
All you bandwagon haters truly have no clue. Once one of you throws out some BS like ... Odom's defense was the problem ... the rest of you jump on the old bandwagon and throw out crap that has no basis in reality. One of you says Odom let Ginobili shoot open 3 after open 3 ... then the next guy says Odom left Finley wide open for passes and easy 3s from Ginobili ... and then the NEXT guy says Odom's help defense was awful and he should have been rotating better on the easy layups Parker was getting.
I guess Odom was supposed to be guarding all three of their perimeter players AT THE SAME TIME. Damn Odom ... what's wrong with you???
The truth is our entire team defense fell apart in the 3rd ... Smush was awful ... Kobe was too ... and trying to blame Odom solely for the poor TEAM defense proves just how idiotic and senseless is your hatred of Odom. |
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NY_LakerFan Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Posts: 1297
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:29 am Post subject: |
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uberzev wrote: | Just_Looking wrote: | uberzev wrote: | He played terrible defense therefore he is at fault. |
What game were YOU watching?
Their perimeter players, Parker, Ginobili, and Finley lit us up. Are you seriously blaming Odom for THAT??? | Yes, I blame him for leaving Manu/Finley wide open which led to their combined 10/12 three point shooting. |
Gee ... THAT makes sense. So at the end of the third and in the fourth, Odom was pulling double duty on those two, huh?
Phil pulled Cook out and put George in during those runs just for the purpose of defense. I suppose George's poor defense was Odom's fault, too?
Curious what you smoke during the games? |
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KB8@LG Starting Rotation
Joined: 22 Aug 2004 Posts: 367
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:33 am Post subject: |
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Lamar was good but he should take more shots. Anyhing with 1 digit shot attempts is unaccaptable for a second option. |
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karlmalonefan Star Player
Joined: 06 Jul 2004 Posts: 2608 Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:52 am Post subject: |
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Muad'Dib wrote: | Quote: |
Lamar not at fault in this one.
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Do you know who was supposed to be covering Manu and Finley (when Manu left) when they were raining down those wide open 3s?!?!
Odom got burned by not staying home on his man about 13 times tonight. Not exaggerating. | That's because guys weren't rotating properly/swithching on defense. Watch it again. |
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karlmalonefan Star Player
Joined: 06 Jul 2004 Posts: 2608 Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:08 am Post subject: |
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THE_SHOES wrote: | Muad'Dib wrote: | gastr wrote: | Muad'Dib wrote: | Quote: |
Lamar not at fault in this one.
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Do you know who was supposed to be covering Manu and Finley (when Manu left) when they were raining down those wide open 3s?!?!
Odom got burned by not staying home on his man about 13 times tonight. Not exaggerating. |
smush was worse. |
Well, Lamar doesn't have the excuse of getting rubbed off of illegal picks every trip down the floor.
All he had to do was stay the (bleep) put. |
Tony Parker wouldn't allow it. Smush was getting raped and, Kwame was staying home with Dunc which was the right thing to do. Odom was helping off the weaksided like he was suppose to.
In fact a round of applause for LO knocking Tony damned near the (bleep) out! That was the hightlight of our defense tonight!
It worked to! The little HO missed both of them flagrant tosses! | Like I said in my post yesterday. We needed to put the wood on Tony to discourage penetration. Kwame should have done that to him in the beginning of the game...I stood up and cheered when Lamar did that. It was way overdue.
also, why in the hell was Kwame not starting on Duncan? gimme a break, phil. you had Cook trying to guard him? That was laughable at best. Should have started Kwame and had him play every minute Timmy did. Let Cook or Mihm play Nazr. Then have Cook or Mihm come off the bench to play against Nesterovic. It would have helped the offensive production for our bench while clogging the lane for parker and helping to shut down duncan. Oh, and Lamar should never be guarding Finley/Ginobili. That should have been Kobe's assignment. Lamar should have taken Bowen, so he could sag off on help D inside against Duncan. Phil should have made that adjustment at halftime. Oh, and he took too long to get the good defensive unit out on the floor (Kwame, Lamar, Dev, Kobe and Smush). They should have come in at the time out they took at 6 minutes left in the 3rd. I couldn't believe Phil left the same unit that was getting blitzed in to finish the third. Horrible moves. |
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karlmalonefan Star Player
Joined: 06 Jul 2004 Posts: 2608 Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:11 am Post subject: |
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Drifts wrote: | THE_SHOES wrote: | Muad'Dib wrote: | gastr wrote: | Muad'Dib wrote: | Quote: |
Lamar not at fault in this one.
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Do you know who was supposed to be covering Manu and Finley (when Manu left) when they were raining down those wide open 3s?!?!
Odom got burned by not staying home on his man about 13 times tonight. Not exaggerating. |
smush was worse. |
Well, Lamar doesn't have the excuse of getting rubbed off of illegal picks every trip down the floor.
All he had to do was stay the (bleep) put. |
Tony Parker wouldn't allow it. Smush was getting raped and, Kwame was staying home with Dunc which was the right thing to do. Odom was helping off the weaksided like he was suppose to.
In fact a round of applause for LO knocking Tony damned near the (bleep) out! That was the hightlight of our defense tonight!
It worked to! The little HO missed both of them flagrant tosses! |
I didn't know flagrant fouls was considered good defense...so was giving up a three to Finley following the FT misses.... | I don't think it should have been called a flagrant foul...he was going for the ball, trying to block the shot. It was far from intentional. Defenders have done much worse to Kobe and he hasn't gotten a flagrant called. |
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Muad'Dib Star Player
Joined: 19 Sep 2004 Posts: 3903
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:49 am Post subject: |
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Just_Looking wrote: |
Gee ... THAT makes sense. So at the end of the third and in the fourth, Odom was pulling double duty on those two, huh?
Phil pulled Cook out and put George in during those runs just for the purpose of defense. I suppose George's poor defense was Odom's fault, too?
Curious what you smoke during the games? |
There was a stretch beginning right after the half when Lamar was covering Manu. He left him to half-assedly double down--was really only in No-Man's Land, because his double was worthless--leaving Manu wide open on the perimeter 4 times. Manu did not even have to move, other than stepping into another wide open 3.
Toward the end of the period, Manu was pulled and Lamar now drew Finley as his mark. Did the exact same thing and Finley knocked down two wide open 3s when Lamar wouldn't stay home on him.
Simple as that. I never said Lamar should've been bringing that half-assed double or rotating down more quickly because Kwame had Ms. Duncan straight-up. Lamar (and all of the Laker defenders--Kobe and DG included) should have simply stayed home on their man all night, strong side, especially. |
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OdomX2 Star Player
Joined: 25 Nov 2004 Posts: 3973
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:51 am Post subject: |
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Just_Looking wrote: | This is unFREAKINbelievable.
All you bandwagon haters truly have no clue. Once one of you throws out some BS like ... Odom's defense was the problem ... the rest of you jump on the old bandwagon and throw out crap that has no basis in reality. One of you says Odom let Ginobili shoot open 3 after open 3 ... then the next guy says Odom left Finley wide open for passes and easy 3s from Ginobili ... and then the NEXT guy says Odom's help defense was awful and he should have been rotating better on the easy layups Parker was getting.
I guess Odom was supposed to be guarding all three of their perimeter players AT THE SAME TIME. Damn Odom ... what's wrong with you???
The truth is our entire team defense fell apart in the 3rd ... Smush was awful ... Kobe was too ... and trying to blame Odom solely for the poor TEAM defense proves just how idiotic and senseless is your hatred of Odom. |
Kobe guarded Bowen. Bowen was 2-7. I thought Lamar was late early and often on defense, but the glaring, overt problem on defense, time after time is Smush Parker. I have never seen a worse perimeter defender in all of my days. |
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karlmalonefan Star Player
Joined: 06 Jul 2004 Posts: 2608 Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:54 am Post subject: |
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Muad'Dib wrote: | Just_Looking wrote: |
Gee ... THAT makes sense. So at the end of the third and in the fourth, Odom was pulling double duty on those two, huh?
Phil pulled Cook out and put George in during those runs just for the purpose of defense. I suppose George's poor defense was Odom's fault, too?
Curious what you smoke during the games? |
There was a stretch beginning right after the half when Lamar was covering Manu. He left him to half-assedly double down--was really only in No-Man's Land, because his double was worthless--leaving Manu wide open on the perimeter 4 times. Manu did not even have to move, other than stepping into another wide open 3.
Toward the end of the period, Manu was pulled and Lamar now drew Finley as his mark. Did the exact same thing and Finley knocked down two wide open 3s when Lamar wouldn't stay home on him.
Simple as that. I never said Lamar should've been bringing that half-assed double or rotating down more quickly because Kwame had Ms. Duncan straight-up. Lamar (and all of the Laker defenders--Kobe and DG included) should have simply stayed home on their man all night, strong side, especially. | I agree with you. the problem was that Phil didn't start Kwame on Duncan like he should have in the third (actually should have started on him from the first, but the adjustment should have been made in the third). He went right back to that original starting lineup and that's where we lost the game right there. Making that adjustment may have thrown them off enough for us to keep it close. Kwame should have been on the floor every second Duncan was. Then everyone could have stayed home on D. I agree about that. I remember thinking last night when Lamar sagged down to help Kwame with Duncan, that he doesn't need any help, stay with your man. |
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Muad'Dib Star Player
Joined: 19 Sep 2004 Posts: 3903
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:59 am Post subject: |
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Right on, man. Phil simply baffles me with his rotations sometimes. Cook cannot do a thing defensively vs Duncan, and it wasn't like he was on fire last night or anything on the other end. If his shot isn't falling, and he's making stupid mistakes on D he should be pulled immediately. Took Phil too long in the 3rd last night to bring out the hook. |
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bounty Star Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 3946
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:12 am Post subject: |
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1st off LO played great against Detroit.
He had 5pts in the 1st half. Some came from a 3 pointer. That means he had two buckets. Show me once in LO history where if he doesnt get off early he gets off period. He had Gino on him enough in the post where he should have exploited but instead passed out.
PJ even hinted at LO not getting set on Gino when 3's were made.
Our D was garbage, but when you are touted as "getting it" or whatever label he got after DTown, he has to step higher than the rest.
The spurs made him irrelevant. Kobe went off shooting over 50%. we cant lose those games. LO's game was weak, but since he is still living off the Glory of detroit game he is allowed yet another pass.
The spurs are far superior to us, fine. Mihm started great but the reality of team D sunk in. Smush? where was JJ? DG? LO got outplayed, outhustled by an over the hill finely and the great Gino. If lo wins one of those battles we win.
Please dont give him the excuse that he was calling for the ball. He wasnt. I watched.
He played great against Detroit though _________________ Lakers Tickets |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58318
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:17 am Post subject: |
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The problem with LO being a help defender is that he isn't quick enough to get back and defend the 3 at the perimeter.
But then again, neither was Devean George.
I think the key problem defensively isn't one player as much as it is having to compensate for not having a defensive anchor.
If the Lakers have an anchor - well that would limit the amount of team collapsing they would have to do. It would allow them to feel a little more confident to have Parker and Duncan take shots inside against that shotblocker.
Mihm is solid shotblocker but not really an elite one. What you need defensively against teams like SA - is some elite shotblocking. I have seen how Detroit whopped SA both games and it was mainly because they didn't really allow them to shoot many open shots. The Lakers OTOH had to either give up penetration that constantly led to points in the paint OR collapse and make them beat you from the outside.
Maybe - Bynum+Kwame next season could be an interesting matchup. Bynum anchors while Kwame does the rebounding/boxing out/tough low post D assignments. |
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TACH Retired Number
Joined: 03 Nov 2005 Posts: 28461 Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:24 am Post subject: |
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The defense was bad in the 3 qtr (gave up 36 points).... but 18 and 19 points in the 2nd and 3rd killed us....
I'm not going to lay this all on LO,.. but there is something wrong when Smush (who went 3 - 11) is taking more shots then LO (but then again that's been the trend all season,.. hopefully our newly acquired vetern guard can help with that sitaution). I thought LO came out with a lot of energy... actually, the whole team came out with a lot of energy. And the whole team sunk up the 3rd qtr... both on offense and defense...
Question of the night... Where was Ronny? If anything, we could of used his fouls on Tim 'I can't hit a free throw' Duncan! Anything to stop the bleeding that occurred in the 3rd...
Last edited by TACH on Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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PiPisKobesByatch Star Player
Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 8038
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:26 am Post subject: |
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it was no coincidence that the 2 guys that were on fire the entire game, finley and manu, were defended by who?
lamar odom.
the guy's got 5 inches on both players and he can't even defend them on some long 3 point shots. wut a travesty. |
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karlmalonefan Star Player
Joined: 06 Jul 2004 Posts: 2608 Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:29 am Post subject: |
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The wrong lineup started the third. Phil should have started Kwame on Duncan in the third and he should have matched him minute for minute. Cook/Mihm were getting killed inside all 1st quarter. We were lucky to stay with them. You can't count on that kind of dumb luck lasting. The adjustment should have been made. |
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TACH Retired Number
Joined: 03 Nov 2005 Posts: 28461 Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:29 am Post subject: |
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PiPisKobesByatch wrote: | it was no coincidence that the 2 guys that were on fire the entire game, finley and manu, were defended by who?
lamar odom.
the guy's got 5 inches on both players and he can't even defend them on some long 3 point shots. wut a travesty. |
How does LO cover two people? |
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THE_SHOES Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 29556 Location: Taiwan
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:33 am Post subject: |
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The only guys collapsing were already in the interior. Who was roaming the perimeter? When any man charges in for help defense somebody should be cutting right off his tail to cover.
This isn't new stuff. Did anybody notice how well the Spurs do that?
Trying to designate blame on this one is comical... You could drop this load on several guys. When Odom creamed Parker he had to hustle over from position. Obviously somebody was suppose to cover. That is known as rotation...
You guys can label every mistake and, hand out names on each one, but the Lakers have some work to do on coverage assignments. I just hope every team in the league didn't see that... _________________ "According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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bounty Star Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 3946
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:33 am Post subject: |
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Memo:
Phil Jackson=Great coach
Any of us=Not Phil Jackson
When your horse shoots over 50% and scores 40, his teamates need to help by playing bigtime D. If we hold Manu or finley down we probably win _________________ Lakers Tickets |
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THE_SHOES Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 29556 Location: Taiwan
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:35 am Post subject: |
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Damn bounty did you even watch the game?
Man! _________________ "According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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Sage_10 Star Player
Joined: 24 Dec 2005 Posts: 6668
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:39 am Post subject: |
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OdomX2 wrote: | Just_Looking wrote: | This is unFREAKINbelievable.
All you bandwagon haters truly have no clue. Once one of you throws out some BS like ... Odom's defense was the problem ... the rest of you jump on the old bandwagon and throw out crap that has no basis in reality. One of you says Odom let Ginobili shoot open 3 after open 3 ... then the next guy says Odom left Finley wide open for passes and easy 3s from Ginobili ... and then the NEXT guy says Odom's help defense was awful and he should have been rotating better on the easy layups Parker was getting.
I guess Odom was supposed to be guarding all three of their perimeter players AT THE SAME TIME. Damn Odom ... what's wrong with you???
The truth is our entire team defense fell apart in the 3rd ... Smush was awful ... Kobe was too ... and trying to blame Odom solely for the poor TEAM defense proves just how idiotic and senseless is your hatred of Odom. |
Kobe guarded Bowen. Bowen was 2-7. I thought Lamar was late early and often on defense, but the glaring, overt problem on defense, time after time is Smush Parker. I have never seen a worse perimeter defender in all of my days. |
What the hell was Kobe doing guarding Bowen? Lamar should have guarded him and Kobe should have taken Manu or Finely. Bad defensive assignments. |
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bounty Star Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 3946
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:39 am Post subject: |
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THE_SHOES wrote: | Damn bounty did you even watch the game?
Man! |
yes _________________ Lakers Tickets |
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THE_SHOES Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 29556 Location: Taiwan
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:39 am Post subject: |
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TACH wrote: | PiPisKobesByatch wrote: | it was no coincidence that the 2 guys that were on fire the entire game, finley and manu, were defended by who?
lamar odom.
the guy's got 5 inches on both players and he can't even defend them on some long 3 point shots. wut a travesty. |
How does LO cover two people? |
How about this? What if Parker can be kept out of the paint since we're just making stupid statements!
That way everybody can man up!
Parker scored how many points in the paint? That (bleep) had to be contained. The funny thing is if LO had of stayed home the same haters would be crying "Well if Odom played with any fire he would have closed the lane!"
This is stupid! Let me out of this thread! _________________ "According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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CrimsonLaker Star Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2006 Posts: 2268
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:53 am Post subject: |
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I'll criticize lamar. I don't see why he gets breaks. "Oh I was posting and asking for the ball, but no one gave it to me." Please, fool. You think if Kobe was getting ignored, he wouldn't bring it up in a timeout and demand the damn ball? Lamar is a leader on the team and so when his team is going away from him, he has to be more vocal, demand the ball, get on his teammates. I'm sick of passive Lamar. Passive Lamar is a TTT, aggressive Lamar is a superstar.
Kobe played a good game, but played dumb most of the third quarter. Seriously. Then again, everyone broke down in the third. |
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Sage_10 Star Player
Joined: 24 Dec 2005 Posts: 6668
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:58 am Post subject: |
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CrimsonLaker wrote: | I'll criticize lamar. I don't see why he gets breaks. "Oh I was posting and asking for the ball, but no one gave it to me." Please, fool. You think if Kobe was getting ignored, he wouldn't bring it up in a timeout and demand the damn ball? Lamar is a leader on the team and so when his team is going away from him, he has to be more vocal, demand the ball, get on his teammates. I'm sick of passive Lamar. Passive Lamar is a TTT, aggressive Lamar is a superstar.
Kobe played a good game, but played dumb most of the third quarter. Seriously. Then again, everyone broke down in the third. |
How do you know he didn't bring it up in the timeouts? How do you know the coaching staff didn't bring it up? And that's irrelevent, passing it in to LO was coming sense. He had a mismatch everytime.
And yeah he is a leader, did you see him fight for offensive boards and score twice in the fourth? Then they went away from that and started launching 3's. Lamar was agressive last night, not passive. |
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TACH Retired Number
Joined: 03 Nov 2005 Posts: 28461 Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:01 am Post subject: |
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CrimsonLaker wrote: | I'll criticize lamar. I don't see why he gets breaks. "Oh I was posting and asking for the ball, but no one gave it to me." Please, fool. You think if Kobe was getting ignored, he wouldn't bring it up in a timeout and demand the damn ball? Lamar is a leader on the team and so when his team is going away from him, he has to be more vocal, demand the ball, get on his teammates. I'm sick of passive Lamar. Passive Lamar is a TTT, aggressive Lamar is a superstar.
Kobe played a good game, but played dumb most of the third quarter. Seriously. Then again, everyone broke down in the third. |
The team got rattled in the 3rd when the Spurs came out red hot!! Including KB8. They began to over rotate, and double Duncan unnecessarily (Kwame should of been in the game or use Ronny and his 6 fouls to send Timmy to the line).
That is a mark of a young team, which this team is. It's in situation like this is when you need that vetern PG to calm everybody down and run the show. Hope JJ can do that.... |
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