The Problem with Odom is: Odom or Phil?

Laker Lurker · Star Player Joined: 24 Oct 2002 Posts: 7652

Nothing last night was Odom's fault. He hit 6 out of 8 and then he stopped getting touches. I listened to the radio broadcast and Mychal Thompson and Spiro were explictly, spontaneously, and extemporaneously commenting during the broadcast (not by a scripted or canned response) that it was up to Phil to tell the players to throw the ball to Odom in the paint and make adjustments to Manu's fronting of Odom. Money Smith was even more emphatic in the post game talk show and stated" Phil got outcoahed" {by Popovich}. Mychal even pointed out that an assistant[/i] coach has to point out to Phil what was happening in the game. Now why in the hell must an assistant coach point out to Jackson what was happening in the game.If I posted what the Laker fans calling in said about Jackson, I would be accused of trolling. Odom cannot be blamed for Phils bad coaching (either by actual act or by doing nothing). Odom was getting killed defensively because the other lakers were getting killed defensively in the second half after Pop made adjustnemets at halftine and during the game. Phil is not capable of making "on the go "adjustments" either for offensive or defensive purposes and it takes him at least after the end ot the 3rd quarter to counter the other coachs moves and by then it is too late. This is what is hapenning and this is what we were are seeing. The Detroit win has opened my eyes as to the playing talent on this team and thus has accented and emphasized the lack of coaching talent from the head coach down to his assistants.

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bounty · Star Player Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 3946

OmegaCues · Starting Rotation Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 574

It is a combination of both. Obviously. However, if (a very big if) I have to assign a percentage of fault, I would do 70% Phil and 30% Odom.

Why 70% Phil?

It is because Phil incorrectly utilizes Odom. Odom is not fit for the initiator role and should have been removed from that huge responsibility A LONG TIME ago. If you look at the history of teams running the Triangle system, Chicago had Pippen and the Lakers had Kobe, two of the smartest players. Tex Winter also said this a long time ago that Phil should remove Odom from the initiator responsibility. (Phil's triangle knowledge compares to Tex is like our Triangle knowledge compare to Phil's).

I think this messed Odom up, mentally (and we all know that he ain't strong mentally in the first place).

Why 30% Odom?

Well, Odom has a carefree attitude, and this doesn't fit well with what we need from him. His laidback style overamplifies our biggest need, which is an aggessive 2nd option scorer.

dgrynch · Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:27 pm Post subject:

Odom is a veteran player in this league and it is up to him to get his game off.
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bounty · Star Player Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 3946

sodapoppenski · Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:32 pm Post subject:

OmegaCues · Starting Rotation Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 574

Kupchak's Biggest Fan · Sixth Man Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 29

Odom needs to have a strong last 21 games so we can trade him for Joe Johnson in the summer.

TACH · Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject:

Laker Lurker · Star Player Joined: 24 Oct 2002 Posts: 7652

JUST-MING · Retired Number Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 43975

Hopefully the league (and Odom fans) think it's Phil and not Odom. Maybe then we can get someone in return for him.

P.K. · Retired Number Joined: 10 Jul 2003 Posts: 29700

Laker Lurker · Star Player Joined: 24 Oct 2002 Posts: 7652

lakerMark · Starting Rotation Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 478

Coaching has nothing to do with the Lakers losing to SA. For some to say Phil got outcoached by Pop just look at the rosters and you will find why SA won. Phil is doing a great job if you look at the Golden State Warriors you probably would see more overall talent, if you look at the NY Knicks you would also see more talent so if you are criticizing Phil look at some of the teams below the Lakers and ask yourself do they have more talent. The Lakers probably have two players maybe 3 that would start on other teams and only 4 maybe 5 that would get playing time on other teams. If Phil makes the playoffs with this squad it probably will be his best coaching job ever.

P.K. · Retired Number Joined: 10 Jul 2003 Posts: 29700

Addicus · Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:05 am Post subject:

I put a lot of the blame on Mr. Bryant himself. He is the best passer we have and routinely refuses to give Lamar the ball when he has a smaller player on him in the post.

Kobe needs to correct this trend or he will truly find himself out in the cold for a numerous amount of years when it comes to getting rings. Why?

The team follows his lead. If he starts feeding Lamar, others will also. Remember that Lamar has no problem giving the ball up to someone open, so players don't mind moving to the open spaces. We watched Kobe feed McGrady in the all-star game. I'm not suggesting to feed Lamar to this extent, but to intentionally get Lamar involved somewhat like he did Tracy would go a long way. Remember Tracy is a shooter so when he got the ball we all knew it was going up. Lamar is a passer first so all the players are now looking to get to the open spots for that dunk or mid range jumper. Lamar would surely give the ball back to Kobe who can now move without the ball and not have to work as much for those much needed points he gives us.

This does not make Lamar the facilitor. It makes Kobe the facilitator as of now. If Jim Jackson can handle what I described for Kobe it will make him the facilitator and really open up a lot for the team.

Our big guys are not there just to rebound for the outside shooters. We stayed in the game in the first half against the Spurs because we feed the low post over and over again. Parker was driving in the 1st, but our rotations to the open shooters were much better and to be frank, Finley didn't heat up yet.

The third period came along and the post feeds stopped coming. All of a sudden our rotations got slower and Manu went hog wild.

The rhythm of this team predicates on feeding the post. It could be Kobe or whoever. When we do, the team has much better spacing and it seems as if the guys get back better on defense. Part of this is the opposing team is forced to come under the foul line when the post is a threat.

When we run a lot of iso in the middle and the ball movement stagnates there is no boxing out and poor defensive recovering.

I like Lamar in the mid post where he can go either left or right. Teams usually front him. This tactic should be useless because of his length and heigth but he doesn't get the ball. If he isn't fronted he is doubled from the middle to force him to the sideline. A lot of times teams send the double once he puts the ball down to insure Kobe isn't immediately wide open on the opposite side of the court.

The triangle is meant to give the offense the opportunity to overload one side of the court with it's best players. Phil will make the adjustment and start overloading Cook, Odom and Bryant on one side (probably the right if you are facing your tv). This isn't as effective as in previous years because you can double the man without the ball now, but with the shooting abilities of Cook and Kobe and Lamar's vision of the court even when the double has arrived, it will work. This will be much more effective once Kwame remembers how to catch the ball and dunk and once Mihm stops doing his best Kwame impression of dropping nice clean passes.

That's my daily rant. Hopefully we see more of what I spoke of against the Hornets. When JJ gets on the court I'm wishing to see a more fluid team out there,

Oh yeah, bench Sasha until he learns how to get to the hole. His inability to make a layup along with Kwame's offensive ineptitude really set us back when Lamar or Kobe aren't on the floor with them.
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Sidious · Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:07 am Post subject:

It's Odom. He's the type of personality that just doesn't want the spotlight. He doesn't pass the ball off because he's unselfish, he passes it off because he's scared. He doesn't want the burden of saying, sorry guys I bricked 4 bad shots in a row my bad. He's one of those guys who has talent but he'd rather just be mixed in as one of the guys, that's just his personality.

Supa · Star Player Joined: 08 Dec 2004 Posts: 2210

If Odom is really trying to get the ball in the post and they refuse get it to him, it's something that can be discussed outside of games and resolved. Just because you see it happen a few times, you can't make the conclusion that everyone else is at fault. If he really wants it, he'd make it known.

Besides, if you noticed, the team sometimes has problems even getting the ball to Kobe when he posts up his man. He always has to come out on the perimeter to get it.

Sidious · Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:03 am Post subject:

I'm sure some of us have played basketball at some competitive level in our lives. And we all know, if a player wants and needs the basketball he'll find a way to get the ball. But there are some players like Odom who don't have assertive personalities and he's fine just sitting in the background and seeing what happens.

karlmalonefan · Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:46 am Post subject:

It is true that Lamar was passing up some shots at point blank range that he should have followed through with. Kwame doesn't have the hands for those kinds of passes, and there is too much traffic usually for that to be successful. However, it is also true that several times during the game he was posting up and calling for the ball and they went away from him. It happened repeatedly in the Detroit game as well. He should have shot more, 8 attempts aren't enough, imo. He needs to be somewhere between 10-15...10 being the absolute minimum.

When he is passive like that on offense, it helps the opposing team's defense, because he removes himself as a scoring threat. He was aggressive, but didn't look to score when he had the opportunities, like he did vs Detroit. When he does this it throws the offense out of rhythm. PJ has told him this. Hopefully he will stay aggressive.

I'm looking forward to the game tonight. I'll say right now that they need to throw in some zone defense to help guard against penetration. Let them beat you from outside. The Hornets will be playing in a building they aren't used to playing in, even though it's a home game for them. We need to make them hit shots, instead of getting burned inside. That's my key to the game.

Addicus · Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:44 am Post subject:

mike_dee23 · Franchise Player Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 11703

Odom just forgets to be aggressive at times. If the dude was aggressive in the post all the time he'd easily average at least 18 points. <seriously> he needs to go to a sports psychologist or something to teach him HOW to be aggressive.

Addicus · Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:55 am Post subject:

wolfpaclaker · Retired Number Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58333

We didn't lose that game because of offense.

We just couldn't stop SA in the 2nd half. We tried to clog the paint and reduce penetration lanes through collapsing but that left thier 3 point shooters open - our rotation wasn't as good - they made us pay for that.

Why every game it comes down to this Odom role on offense I do not know. The Lakers scored a lot of points on a good percentage on a team that is the best in the NBA defensively. But they gave up pver 100+ (and 35+ in the 3rd)

That's what they (Phil) needs to be focusing on. How to make this ballclub better defensively.

mike_dee23 · Franchise Player Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 11703