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Mike@LG
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 Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:01 am Post subject: |
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Actually want Kwame and Wilcox to play next to each other. Considering how Seattle is rebuilding again, they may just take a cheap talent and ending contracts for a sign and trade.
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Socks
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Joined: 01 Feb 2006
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Location: Bay Area, CA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| Is Fred Jones available anytime soon? Would Indy let him escape? |
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And 1
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| tgf5 wrote: | | I don't see Wilcox often, so how good of a defender is he? |
Well, IMO, Wilcox is merely average right now.
Speaking solely in terms of defense, I think he's similar to Kwame.
Despite his size and athletic ability, he's NOT a shot-blocker. But his strength allows him to mucsle up with PF's and centers alike. He also moves his feet well so I believe that he can be effective in P&R situations. |
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tgf5
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Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| And 1 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | ^
I rather have Mihm than Wilcox.
We already have our athletic PF/C with limited offensive ability in Kwame. Sure, Wilcox is a better dunker but the guy is just a big headcase and really lacks a true offensive game.
Mihm should be traded for better IMO. Personally despite being foul prone and at times soft, Mihm has played well and improved as a low post threat for the Lakers. Trading him won't be easy. We better get something proven and of good value in return. |
Well, I've given up on the prospect of having Kwame serve as a PF. I think he can be a good center for us, though - one who provides better defense than Mihm.
I'm aware that Wilcox had his run-ins with coach Dunleavey. But is that what you're basing your "headcase" remark on? Or do you know about other things? I think it's unfair to judge a particular player or coach based upon clashes one or the other may have had with each other.
As for Wilcox not possessing a true offensive game...
With PT in Seattle, he's putting up 12 ppg. That's pretty damn good for someone without a "true offensive game" don't you think? If you consider those points to be "garbage points" so be it. The way I look at it, those 12 garbage points become 14-15 points with any decent FT shooting from him. I also believe that with his athleticism, his defense and rebounding could improve. |
Kwame played 30 mpg in Washingon and Wilcox is getting 27 mpg in Seattle. Kwame got 11 ppg and Wilcox is getting 12. However Wilcox is getting 5.6 boards and Kwame getting 7.4 boards along with more assists. Still, Kwame isn't exactly a "true offensive game" player is he? |
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ElginBaylor
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| Socks wrote: | | Is Fred Jones available anytime soon? Would Indy let him escape? |
I saw the game at Canseco against the Lakers and I was very impressed with Fred Jones. One of the reason why we got torched so bad. I would love to see him in P & G and I believe the the Pacers are solid at that position so they may be willing to deal. Excellent suggestion!
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:31 am Post subject: |
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And 1 - Wilcox is getting those points on a really bad team. As tg5 pointed out, even Kwame had averages of near 11 ppg for the season (not even a 10-15 game stretch like with CW) with Washington.
Young bigs without a true offensive game will struggle in the Triangle. Just like Kwame is.
Defensively, I rather have Kwame. Kwame when focused is just an impact defender. I have not seen many players defend Yao, Shaq and block out the Wallace's the way Kwame has.
While Kwame still has a long way to go, I think he will be better next season.
Almost all Phil Jackson players get better in their 2nd season. He will be setting them goals for the summer and if they are healthy and follow it up with workoouts - I think there's definite room for improvement.
That being said, Kwame+Wilcox is probably a better foundation to work with than Mihm+Cook. I guess on that alone, I probably agree with you. Though I think we can do better than Wilcox in a Mihm deal. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Actually want Kwame and Wilcox to play next to each other. Considering how Seattle is rebuilding again, they may just take a cheap talent and ending contracts for a sign and trade. |
I can't argue that Kwame+Wilcox isn't better than Mihm+Cook. I rather have the former starting for us too.
However, my problem with this is that I think we can get more from a Mihm trade. |
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And 1
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | And 1 - Wilcox is getting those points on a really bad team. As tg5 pointed out, even Kwame had averages of near 11 ppg for the season (not even a 10-15 game stretch like with CW) with Washington.
Young bigs without a true offensive game will struggle in the Triangle. Just like Kwame is.
Defensively, I rather have Kwame. Kwame when focused is just an impact defender. I have not seen many players defend Yao, Shaq and block out the Wallace's the way Kwame has.
While Kwame still has a long way to go, I think he will be better next season.
Almost all Phil Jackson players get better in their 2nd season. He will be setting them goals for the summer and if they are healthy and follow it up with workoouts - I think there's definite room for improvement.
That being said, Kwame+Wilcox is probably a better foundation to work with than Mihm+Cook. I guess on that alone, I probably agree with you. Though I think we can do better than Wilcox in a Mihm deal. |
Shouldn't this discussion be more on the comparison between Chris Mihm and Chris Wilcox? I mean, this is what I essentially proposed, isn't it?
Then why do I see Wilcox/Kwame comparisons from tgf5 and "Defensively, I rather have kwame" comments from you?
As for the thought that Wilcox is merely putting up good numbers because he's on a bad team, I'd prefer to think that he's putting up good numbers because he's actually getting an opportunity to play. Since he's been traded to the Sonics, I haven't been able to see how they've utilized him on offense (i.e. low-post go-to man, transition, or garbage points).
As for your assertion that he doesn't really have an offensive game, rest assured he does his work in the paint and in transition. Duncan he is not. Better than Mihm and Kwame (offensively)? Fo' sho. Ideal for the Triangle offense? Maybe not. But since when has the "perfect guy" been needed to succeed? |
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Kupchak's Biggest Fan
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Joined: 07 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Johnson. Send Lamar and the Heat #1 to Philly. Philly sends A.I. To Atlanta. Atlanta sends Joe Johnson and Josh Smith to the Lakers. |
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Showtime_Returns
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Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | As an alternative, I've proposed looking to acquire Chris Wilcox from Seattle along with Rashard Lewis. Wilcox is a RFA at the end of this season and has played well in his stint with the Sonics (averaging 12 & 7, I believe). I think that they (Seattle) just might consider a S&T with us where they'll take Mihm and a resigned Devean George. |
This is definately a great idea. Bringing in Wilcox and Lewis would upgrade our scoring without losing anything on the defensive or rebounding department. All we would have to do is sign a PG in the offseason and this team would be set. |
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And 1
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Kupchak's Biggest Fan wrote: | | Joe Johnson. Send Lamar and the Heat #1 to Philly. Philly sends A.I. To Atlanta. Atlanta sends Joe Johnson and Josh Smith to the Lakers. |
I like Joe Johnson too.
But Philly fan would burn the town down if all they got in return for Iverson was LO and a late first. |
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And 1
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Showtime_Returns wrote: | | Quote: | | As an alternative, I've proposed looking to acquire Chris Wilcox from Seattle along with Rashard Lewis. Wilcox is a RFA at the end of this season and has played well in his stint with the Sonics (averaging 12 & 7, I believe). I think that they (Seattle) just might consider a S&T with us where they'll take Mihm and a resigned Devean George. |
This is definately a great idea. Bringing in Wilcox and Lewis would upgrade our scoring without losing anything on the defensive or rebounding department. All we would have to do is sign a PG in the offseason and this team would be set. |
That's what I'm saying. And truth be told, with the way that Blake, Dixon, and Telfair have been playing, I'd see if Portland would part with Jarrett Jack on the super cheap. |
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Kupchak's Biggest Fan
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Joined: 07 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| And 1 wrote: | | Kupchak's Biggest Fan wrote: | | Joe Johnson. Send Lamar and the Heat #1 to Philly. Philly sends A.I. To Atlanta. Atlanta sends Joe Johnson and Josh Smith to the Lakers. |
I like Joe Johnson too.
But Philly fan would burn the town down if all they got in return for Iverson was LO and a late first. |
That's true but according to Multiple sources AI was almost dealt at the deadline to Denver for garbage. If I'm not mistaken AI was actually dealt for Lamar a few years ago but Matt Geiger nixed the deal because he refused to waive his no trade clause. |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| There's noway I see Buss taking on JJ's contract |
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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If a trade of Mihm plus anyone beside Kobe, Odom, Kwame, and Bynum could bring in Boozer, the Lakers need to go for it.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | If a trade of Mihm plus anyone beside Kobe, Odom, Kwame, and Bynum could bring in Boozer, the Lakers need to go for it. |
At times I agree with that and then at times I don't.
Boozer is such a wierd charachter. I mean is he really going to play 70 games per season? Can we win a championship with him, Odom and Bryant has our 3 highest paid players?
There's a lot of questions and risk in dealing for Boozer.
Not saying I wouldn't do the deal, but there are some risks involved. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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Unfortunately, a player with risks is all that the Lakers can get without trading Odom. They have no cap space and only the MLE to offer, and historically, they don't offer the MLE for full years, which loses alot of players. If they decide not to trade Odom, then they have less to offer via trade as well. If they decide to trade Odom, they better get more than Boozer in return.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Unfortunately, a player with risks is all that the Lakers can get without trading Odom. They have no cap space and only the MLE to offer, and historically, they don't offer the MLE for full years, which loses alot of players. If they decide not to trade Odom, then they have less to offer via trade as well. If they decide to trade Odom, they better get more than Boozer in return. |
Well put.
But in one more year or max two - they have lots of room. By 2009 only Kobe is a longterm K. There is an oppurtunity for the Lakers to add FA's in 2008 and 2009 and be set for the very longrun.
Not saying that's what they should do - but we better believe that they will weigh what they can do in 2006 vs what they can do in 2007 and onwards.
Boozer has a long K. Runs up until 2010. A move that big would probably mean the Lakers have no more capspace plans. So in order to win a championship or put together a championship team, it wpuld mean usage of the MLE and smart trades. Is that realistic to expect them to build a team around Bryant, Odom and Boozer that can win a championship?
Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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bounty
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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RLewis and Booz.
out going:
LO and not Bynum and hopefully not Mihm
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ElginBaylor
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Unfortunately, a player with risks is all that the Lakers can get without trading Odom. They have no cap space and only the MLE to offer, and historically, they don't offer the MLE for full years, which loses alot of players. If they decide not to trade Odom, then they have less to offer via trade as well. If they decide to trade Odom, they better get more than Boozer in return. |
Well put.
But in one more year or max two - they have lots of room. By 2009 only Kobe is a longterm K. There is an oppurtunity for the Lakers to add FA's in 2008 and 2009 and be set for the very longrun.
Not saying that's what they should do - but we better believe that they will weigh what they can do in 2006 vs what they can do in 2007 and onwards.
Boozer has a long K. Runs up until 2010. A move that big would probably mean the Lakers have no more capspace plans. So in order to win a championship or put together a championship team, it wpuld mean usage of the MLE and smart trades. Is that realistic to expect them to build a team around Bryant, Odom and Boozer that can win a championship? |
I'll weigh in on Boozer. The only thing that bothers me is the length of his contract but if he can stay healthy he's young enough that shouldn't be an issue. Here's a guy who can potentially put up good numbers along with giving us a big body. Could a threesome of Kobe, Odom and Boozer be a championship team? With the right role players definitely!
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| ElginBaylor wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Unfortunately, a player with risks is all that the Lakers can get without trading Odom. They have no cap space and only the MLE to offer, and historically, they don't offer the MLE for full years, which loses alot of players. If they decide not to trade Odom, then they have less to offer via trade as well. If they decide to trade Odom, they better get more than Boozer in return. |
Well put.
But in one more year or max two - they have lots of room. By 2009 only Kobe is a longterm K. There is an oppurtunity for the Lakers to add FA's in 2008 and 2009 and be set for the very longrun.
Not saying that's what they should do - but we better believe that they will weigh what they can do in 2006 vs what they can do in 2007 and onwards.
Boozer has a long K. Runs up until 2010. A move that big would probably mean the Lakers have no more capspace plans. So in order to win a championship or put together a championship team, it wpuld mean usage of the MLE and smart trades. Is that realistic to expect them to build a team around Bryant, Odom and Boozer that can win a championship? |
I'll weigh in on Boozer. The only thing that bothers me is the length of his contract but if he can stay healthy he's young enough that shouldn't be an issue. Here's a guy who can potentially put up good numbers along with giving us a big body. Could a threesome of Kobe, Odom and Boozer be a championship team? With the right role players definitely! |
Boozer's long contract is the scary part of the deal. That worries me more than his injury. By dealing for him, the Lakers would have to renounce their plan to rebuild in a year or two. I think he is the best, most available PF for the Lakers. There are some better, but not available. If the Lakers think they have a shot at KG, then Boozer could be their backup plan. The guy could average 20 and 9, especially playing next to Kobe. Not KG numbers, but better than anything else that is likely available. Plus, he gives them the inside/out game that has worked so well for Buss.
My top choice would be Dirk as a FA when he is on the market (I assume KG will not be available. But Boozer would be a suitable, and more realistic, alternative. Upgrade the PG position, and all of a sudden you have a team. If Bynum shows more development than expected, you would have Kwame as an ending contract to fill whatever holes remain.
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lakers0505
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| If we have come too fact that we think and the organization thinks , kobe bryant can carry an actual "TEAM", by himself, i would not be suprised too see L.O trade for 2-4 quality role players, maybe in a 3 team deal. In that case we would have mihm, kwame, kobe as our starters. Bring in a couple quality gaurds and a solid Defenisive big man in the mold of kwame brown, and ide be happy with that. We would also be able too go out and bring in someone with our exepctions, and we still have that miami pick we can trade of their is any specialist we want. |
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kups
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | I don't think the Lakers need a 2nd option as much as they need to fill in the pieces of the Triangle.
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Good call. Although it would be great if we could get another scorer, our most pressing need seems to be a 2-way PG & a consistent low post presence. Maybe Ely (thru FA) and Duhon (via trade) could fill up those voids. I could only wish.
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_#1_
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Posts: 4752
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| We should MLE Banks next year. The problem on this team starts with the backcourt, not the bigs. Once we have guys I can even refer to as NBA players back with Kobe then we can trade on the bigs and prepare for 07/08. |
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dcarter4kobe
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Lamar Odom |
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