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kobester
Star Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 1247
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 Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:58 pm Post subject: Vegas has kobe as the leading candidate for MVP |
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courtesy of cibs of LT
| Quote: | Las Vegas casinos typically don't place official odds on events in which a preordained outcome could be determined. Especially when it could be determined by say, a cabal of sportswriters. But Johnny Avello, director of Race & Sports Operations at the Wynn Hotel & Casino, is known for putting together lines "for entertainment purposes only" and he agreed to do it for SI.com.
In a mild surprise, Avello rates Bryant as the leading candidate. Keep in mind, Avello is taking into account the various nuances of how the voting is conducted as much as what these candidates have done on the court. Perhaps he foresees a split vote situation, with Billups and/or Marion siphoning votes away from Nash. He also ranks three players who did not even make our top 10 (Tim Duncan, Dwyane Wade, Gilbert Arenas) on his list.
At any rate, here is our take on the MVP race so far, in the order we see it. Obviously, there is still a lot of basketball yet to be played. We've included brief arguments, pro and con, for each candidate, and Wynn's odds of each candidate's chances of taking home the trophy. We've also included Wynn's complete list at the bottom:
Kobe Bryant, Los Angeles Lakers
Pros: Probably the best overall player in the game right now, he has single-handedly kept the Lakers in the playoff race. He leads the NBA in scoring (35.1), averaging a whopping 7.5 more points than a year ago, and ranks eighth in steals (1.78). His 81-point game against the Raptors in January was the NBA's second-highest individual scoring performance of all-time.
Cons: Despite Bryant's individual achievements, the Lakers are a .500 team. He's still a negative image to many voters for his aloof attitude and tendency to dominate the ball.
What he needs to do to win it: Get the Lakers in the playoffs, and hope Nash and Billups split the vote.
Wynn odds: 5 to 2 |
More in LINK
With alll the haters around and the fact we are fighting for the final spot of playoffs, vegas thinks the media would vote for kobe. Surprise, surprise. Does vegas know something we don't? 
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DaggerInTheHeart
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 1459
Location: Sunshine State
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd be shocked if Kobe gets it, Nash seems to be the one who will get it Kobe can't get MVP if he's gonna keep the 500 mark all season long. |
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TEEGUNN
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Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 18086
Location: rocky mountain high
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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We are gonna have to go on a heck of a winning streak for Kobe to get the MVP. There are too many haters of Kobe in the media. So it is going to have to be a "no brainer" choice. Even then, Kobe will never be a unanimous selection. Some hater will probably vote for PJ Brown or the like.
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FerrisVille
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Joined: 12 Aug 2003
Posts: 5356
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| I would put money against Kobe winning the award, that sounds like easy money. |
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Vlade
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Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 2373
Location: valley of dry bone dreams
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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Kobe is having an amzing season, but the Lakers are average at best. I am not a Nash fan, but he is the MVP yet again. He deserves it more than last year, when he had a healthy Amare, and also Joe Johnson and Q Richardson. Looking at the roster before the season started, I thought the Suns would be lucky to make the playoffs.
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DaggerInTheHeart
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 1459
Location: Sunshine State
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Vlade wrote: | | Kobe is having an amzing season, but the Lakers are average at best. I am not a Nash fan, but he is the MVP yet again. He deserves it more than last year, when he had a healthy Amare, and also Joe Johnson and Q Richardson. Looking at the roster before the season started, I thought the Suns would be lucky to make the playoffs. |
Ditto!
Nash deserves it more then anybody Kobe is having a indivdual great season but he hasn't had the impact Steve Nash has. |
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senator kobe
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Joined: 16 Dec 2005
Posts: 521
Location: Irvine
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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Fact is Kobe is selling the tickets, selling the NBA.
There might be something to this Kobe winning MVP thing...
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What? Never mind... |
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KobeButler
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Joined: 14 Nov 2004
Posts: 10179
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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i thought team records shouldnt factor in mvp votings? 
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senator kobe
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Location: Irvine
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| KobeButler wrote: | | i thought team records shouldnt factor in mvp votings? |
Well it does, take out Kobe and the Lakers are at the bottom.
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What? Never mind... |
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Billy
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Joined: 20 Jun 2004
Posts: 1309
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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We have to remember that the odds makers at Vages do not really consider who is most likely to win the MVP. They only think how the gamblers are to bet ... If have a sense that many will bet in favor or against Kobe being the MVP they put Kobe up in front simply because they think that more people will bet in favor or agianst Kobe being MVP.
So it really is not a top of the line evidence that Kobe's a higher chance to be selected... |
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sodapoppenski
Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 7364
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:58 pm Post subject: Re: Vegas has kobe as the leading candidate for MVP |
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| kobester wrote: | courtesy of cibs of LT
| Quote: | Las Vegas casinos typically don't place official odds on events in which a preordained outcome could be determined. Especially when it could be determined by say, a cabal of sportswriters. But Johnny Avello, director of Race & Sports Operations at the Wynn Hotel & Casino, is known for putting together lines "for entertainment purposes only" and he agreed to do it for SI.com.
In a mild surprise, Avello rates Bryant as the leading candidate. Keep in mind, Avello is taking into account the various nuances of how the voting is conducted as much as what these candidates have done on the court. Perhaps he foresees a split vote situation, with Billups and/or Marion siphoning votes away from Nash. He also ranks three players who did not even make our top 10 (Tim Duncan, Dwyane Wade, Gilbert Arenas) on his list.
At any rate, here is our take on the MVP race so far, in the order we see it. Obviously, there is still a lot of basketball yet to be played. We've included brief arguments, pro and con, for each candidate, and Wynn's odds of each candidate's chances of taking home the trophy. We've also included Wynn's complete list at the bottom:
Kobe Bryant, Los Angeles Lakers
Pros: Probably the best overall player in the game right now, he has single-handedly kept the Lakers in the playoff race. He leads the NBA in scoring (35.1), averaging a whopping 7.5 more points than a year ago, and ranks eighth in steals (1.78). His 81-point game against the Raptors in January was the NBA's second-highest individual scoring performance of all-time.
Cons: Despite Bryant's individual achievements, the Lakers are a .500 team. He's still a negative image to many voters for his aloof attitude and tendency to dominate the ball.
What he needs to do to win it: Get the Lakers in the playoffs, and hope Nash and Billups split the vote.
Wynn odds: 5 to 2 |
More in LINK
With alll the haters around and the fact we are fighting for the final spot of playoffs, vegas thinks the media would vote for kobe. Surprise, surprise. Does vegas know something we don't? |
Can't say I agree with them on that likelihood...
...but to answer your question, yes - they usually do  |
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The Dagger
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Joined: 15 Mar 2002
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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If you think Nash is the MVP over Kobe how well do you think the Lakers would be with Nash in place of Kobe? My guess is top five - in the lottery that is. Lets face it, w/o Kobe this team is a top three lottery pick. Nash would'nt help much either, since even he couldn't get these guys to score or play defense.
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eureca
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Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 15824
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| No way Kobe gets it. Bet on Nash he deserves it. Kobe deserves it for being the most important player to a team, but thats not what its voted on. Nash deserves it because look at what he has done with the suns and their record. The record is the key part. And I like the fact that the best player on great team is awarded with it. Its fair. Chris Rock said Kobe is the greatest player on a bad team he was right and thats why he wont get it. He probably wont be in the top 3. |
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sodapoppenski
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Joined: 24 Apr 2005
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Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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I agree he won't get it.
"It's fair" is certainly a matter of opinion.
Based on how they've voted in the past, it's fair that Nash gets it.
That just doesn't mean I agree with how they choose to vote.
I agree team success should matter...
...but lets say (for example, not claiming accuracy here)...
Kobe gives the Lakers an extra 30 wins.
Nash gives the Suns 25 wins.
Nowitzki gives the Mavs 20 wins.
Billups gives the Pistons 15 wins.
To me, Kobe would deserve the MVP.
It's not "fair," as you put it - to reward players for being fortunate enough
to be surrounded by a ton of talent.
By ONLY realistically inlcuding players on top-4 seeded teams (as is
the standard historically), you risk leaving out a guy who might be
FAR more valuable to his team, simply raising them from lotto to a 7th
seed or that kind of thing (more impressive to me than raising a team
from a 7th seed to a 2nd, etc).
Not an exact science either way, even with my method you need to also
use common sense and consider the field - which teams did they overtake
in the standings, how tough is their conferece, etc etc.
But I don't happen to agree with record-nazi-ing players like Kobe who
take the Hawks West and put them in the playoffs. |
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lakers0505
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 10701
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| nah soda, nash is the man, guy is doing wonders this year. Reason being is because we cant use that justification, because if one day kobe has the lakers on top the league and is putting up his numbers as usual, how would we fell if lebron or another star was doing what kobe is now and gets the award for an 8th seed .500 ish team, cant have it both ways. |
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kobekillinu2nite
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Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 1774
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| KobeButler wrote: | | i thought team records shouldnt factor in mvp votings? |
It has to matter to a certain extent. If the raptors get 20 wins, but bosh averages 30 ppg , and best overall stats of anyone, but yet still------20 games???
He may not be as valuable to the team if they only gettin 20 wins, know what i mean??? |
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Das
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Posts: 887
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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Nash will win it not because he's more valuable than Kobe. It's because the media will not allow it, unless it's clear cut and the Lakers owns the best record and Kobe leads the league in Scoring, Assist, Steals and so on. They will find every reason to give it to Nash.
But the Most Valuable Player Award should go to the Most Valuable Player of a certain team and if it's not for Kobe, you wonder, where would the Lakers be? The Suns still has Marion and a lot more decent players than the Lakers. Three of the Lakers 5 starters wouldn't even start with other teams. But the media wont see it that way, they will look at it and say "Hey 5 or 7 of the Suns players are having career highs in scoring because of Nash"... But you sit and think... A few of the Lakers are having career highs in scoring also...
Smush Parker
Chris Mihm
Sasha Vujacic
Brian Cook
Luke Walton
and ofcourse
Kobe Bryant
If you rate a team 1 to 10, 1 being Bad and 10 being Great. You can say that the Suns were a 6 team before Nash came and he made them an 8. But without Kobe, the Lakers would be a 3 team, but he's doing his best to keep this a 6 team.
So if it was up to me Kobe would be MVP! |
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eureca
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Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 15824
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Das wrote: | Nash will win it not because he's more valuable than Kobe. It's because the media will not allow it, unless it's clear cut and the Lakers owns the best record and Kobe leads the league in Scoring, Assist, Steals and so on. They will find every reason to give it to Nash.
But the Most Valuable Player Award should go to the Most Valuable Player of a certain team and if it's not for Kobe, you wonder, where would the Lakers be? The Suns still has Marion and a lot more decent players than the Lakers. Three of the Lakers 5 starters wouldn't even start with other teams. But the media wont see it that way, they will look at it and say "Hey 5 or 7 of the Suns players are having career highs in scoring because of Nash"... But you sit and think... A few of the Lakers are having career highs in scoring also...
Smush Parker
Chris Mihm
Sasha Vujacic
Brian Cook
Luke Walton
and ofcourse
Kobe Bryant
If you rate a team 1 to 10, 1 being Bad and 10 being Great. You can say that the Suns were a 6 team before Nash came and he made them an 8. But without Kobe, the Lakers would be a 3 team, but he's doing his best to keep this a 6 team.
So if it was up to me Kobe would be MVP! |
Uh the year before Nash got there they had one of the worst records in the NBA. His first year there best record in the NBA. He deserved it last year and does again. |
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lakers0505
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 10701
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Das wrote: | Nash will win it not because he's more valuable than Kobe. It's because the media will not allow it, unless it's clear cut and the Lakers owns the best record and Kobe leads the league in Scoring, Assist, Steals and so on. They will find every reason to give it to Nash.
But the Most Valuable Player Award should go to the Most Valuable Player of a certain team and if it's not for Kobe, you wonder, where would the Lakers be? The Suns still has Marion and a lot more decent players than the Lakers. Three of the Lakers 5 starters wouldn't even start with other teams. But the media wont see it that way, they will look at it and say "Hey 5 or 7 of the Suns players are having career highs in scoring because of Nash"... But you sit and think... A few of the Lakers are having career highs in scoring also...
Smush Parker
Chris Mihm
Sasha Vujacic
Brian Cook
Luke Walton
and ofcourse
Kobe Bryant
If you rate a team 1 to 10, 1 being Bad and 10 being Great. You can say that the Suns were a 6 team before Nash came and he made them an 8. But without Kobe, the Lakers would be a 3 team, but he's doing his best to keep this a 6 team.
So if it was up to me Kobe would be MVP! |
Not trying too start name calling but, that was foolish, the suns were a lottery team before nash, they had the 7th pick , which then went to the bulls throught trades and what not.
They on 62 games
They gutted the team, and decided too hand over the reigns too stoudamire, by essentially building it around him.
He got injured, and nash took a team the was supposed too be more suited for stoudamire, and are making them crazy again.
In case u didnt notice , they didnt nessecarily bring in studs too replace JJ and Q, they brought in alot of shooters and look what nash turned them into, mvp hands down,,UNLESS kobe can get this team too the 5th spot and the suns tail off the ridiculous pace. |
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Das
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Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 887
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| lakers0505 wrote: | | Das wrote: | Nash will win it not because he's more valuable than Kobe. It's because the media will not allow it, unless it's clear cut and the Lakers owns the best record and Kobe leads the league in Scoring, Assist, Steals and so on. They will find every reason to give it to Nash.
But the Most Valuable Player Award should go to the Most Valuable Player of a certain team and if it's not for Kobe, you wonder, where would the Lakers be? The Suns still has Marion and a lot more decent players than the Lakers. Three of the Lakers 5 starters wouldn't even start with other teams. But the media wont see it that way, they will look at it and say "Hey 5 or 7 of the Suns players are having career highs in scoring because of Nash"... But you sit and think... A few of the Lakers are having career highs in scoring also...
Smush Parker
Chris Mihm
Sasha Vujacic
Brian Cook
Luke Walton
and ofcourse
Kobe Bryant
If you rate a team 1 to 10, 1 being Bad and 10 being Great. You can say that the Suns were a 6 team before Nash came and he made them an 8. But without Kobe, the Lakers would be a 3 team, but he's doing his best to keep this a 6 team.
So if it was up to me Kobe would be MVP! |
Not trying too start name calling but, that was foolish, the suns were a lottery team before nash, they had the 7th pick , which then went to the bulls throught trades and what not.
They on 62 games
They gutted the team, and decided too hand over the reigns too stoudamire, by essentially building it around him.
He got injured, and nash took a team the was supposed too be more suited for stoudamire, and are making them crazy again.
In case u didnt notice , they didnt nessecarily bring in studs too replace JJ and Q, they brought in alot of shooters and look what nash turned them into, mvp hands down,,UNLESS kobe can get this team too the 5th spot and the suns tail off the ridiculous pace. |
HAHAHA I'm just talking as a Laker Fan, come on, calm down people lol sheeeeesh... |
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pjiddy
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 29057
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd love to see Kobe win it, but there's too many reasons for journalists not to vote for him (mediocre record and the fact most people still hate him being the primaries) |
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sodapoppenski
Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 7364
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| lakers0505 wrote: | | nah soda, nash is the man, guy is doing wonders this year. Reason being is because we cant use that justification, because if one day kobe has the lakers on top the league and is putting up his numbers as usual, how would we fell if lebron or another star was doing what kobe is now and gets the award for an 8th seed .500 ish team, cant have it both ways. |
I actually agree that Nash SHOULD win it, even by my logic.
I just happen to think Kobe should be 2nd.
By the logic the press uses (as I explained above), he won't likely even
be seriously in the mix. |
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Das
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Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 887
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| eureca wrote: | | Das wrote: | Nash will win it not because he's more valuable than Kobe. It's because the media will not allow it, unless it's clear cut and the Lakers owns the best record and Kobe leads the league in Scoring, Assist, Steals and so on. They will find every reason to give it to Nash.
But the Most Valuable Player Award should go to the Most Valuable Player of a certain team and if it's not for Kobe, you wonder, where would the Lakers be? The Suns still has Marion and a lot more decent players than the Lakers. Three of the Lakers 5 starters wouldn't even start with other teams. But the media wont see it that way, they will look at it and say "Hey 5 or 7 of the Suns players are having career highs in scoring because of Nash"... But you sit and think... A few of the Lakers are having career highs in scoring also...
Smush Parker
Chris Mihm
Sasha Vujacic
Brian Cook
Luke Walton
and ofcourse
Kobe Bryant
If you rate a team 1 to 10, 1 being Bad and 10 being Great. You can say that the Suns were a 6 team before Nash came and he made them an 8. But without Kobe, the Lakers would be a 3 team, but he's doing his best to keep this a 6 team.
So if it was up to me Kobe would be MVP! |
Uh the year before Nash got there they had one of the worst records in the NBA. His first year there best record in the NBA. He deserved it last year and does again. |
Actually... here is an acticle regarding the Suns prior to the beginning of the 2003-2004 season. The year before Nash came.
| Quote: | What You Need to Know About the Phoenix Suns
Write It Down: <b>The Phoenix Suns will make it to the Western Conference Finals. </b>
Power Ranking: #5
Projected Record: 53-29
Projected Finish: 3rd in Pacific Division, 4th in Western Conference
Odds to Win the NBA Title: 25/1 (Opened 30/1)
Win Total Over/Under: 45.5
Game of the Year: Dec. 6, Phoenix Suns at New Jersey Nets
Offseason Grade: B-
Best Move: Swinging for the fences by drafting boom-or-bust prospects Zarko Cabarkapa and Leandro Barbosa.
Worst Move: Letting the luxury tax force their hand into trading Jake Tsakalidis.
Additions: PG Brevin Knight (Memphis), C Cezary Trybanski (Memphis), C Robert Archibald (Memphis)
Subtractions: C Jake Tsakalidis (Memphis), PF Bo Outlaw (Phoenix), PF Alton Ford (Orlando)
Rookies: SF/PF Zarko Cabarkapa, PG Leandro Barbosa
Depth Chart
SF: Shawn Marion | Casey Jacobsen
PF: Amare Stoudamire | Tom Gugliotta | Zarko Cabarkapa
C: Jake Voskuhl | Scott Williams | Cezary Trybanski | Robert Archibald
SG: Penny Hardaway | Joe Johnson
PG: Stephon Marbury | Brevin Knight | Leandro Barbosa
Sixth Man: Joe Johnson
Franchise Player: Stephon Marbury
Breakout: Joe Johnson
Burnout: Tom Gugliotta
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So they werent projected to be a bad team, they just didn't make the playoffs due to injuries. Unlike the Lakers, they were projected to be out of the playoff picture by now. But we're still hanging around. I'm not saying Nash doesn't deserve the MVP if he wins, but Kobe deserves it more.
If anyone deserves credit for turning the Suns organization around, it's their GM. |
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lakers0505
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 10701
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Das wrote: | | lakers0505 wrote: | | Das wrote: | Nash will win it not because he's more valuable than Kobe. It's because the media will not allow it, unless it's clear cut and the Lakers owns the best record and Kobe leads the league in Scoring, Assist, Steals and so on. They will find every reason to give it to Nash.
But the Most Valuable Player Award should go to the Most Valuable Player of a certain team and if it's not for Kobe, you wonder, where would the Lakers be? The Suns still has Marion and a lot more decent players than the Lakers. Three of the Lakers 5 starters wouldn't even start with other teams. But the media wont see it that way, they will look at it and say "Hey 5 or 7 of the Suns players are having career highs in scoring because of Nash"... But you sit and think... A few of the Lakers are having career highs in scoring also...
Smush Parker
Chris Mihm
Sasha Vujacic
Brian Cook
Luke Walton
and ofcourse
Kobe Bryant
If you rate a team 1 to 10, 1 being Bad and 10 being Great. You can say that the Suns were a 6 team before Nash came and he made them an 8. But without Kobe, the Lakers would be a 3 team, but he's doing his best to keep this a 6 team.
So if it was up to me Kobe would be MVP! |
Not trying too start name calling but, that was foolish, the suns were a lottery team before nash, they had the 7th pick , which then went to the bulls throught trades and what not.
They on 62 games
They gutted the team, and decided too hand over the reigns too stoudamire, by essentially building it around him.
He got injured, and nash took a team the was supposed too be more suited for stoudamire, and are making them crazy again.
In case u didnt notice , they didnt nessecarily bring in studs too replace JJ and Q, they brought in alot of shooters and look what nash turned them into, mvp hands down,,UNLESS kobe can get this team too the 5th spot and the suns tail off the ridiculous pace. |
HAHAHA I'm just talking as a Laker Fan, come on, calm down people lol sheeeeesh... |
ha sorry about that , but u wouldnt believe some thing posters say on these boards, anyway its all good. Kobe should be #2 -#3 in the voting i believe, and win it if, what i said above occurs. And it very well could be stoudamires return could throw their team out of whack down the streach. Like what webber did a few years ago to Sacto. |
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