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vicman Star Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 2379 Location: Arcadia
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:59 am Post subject: |
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while i liked smush's steals he is a big reason for the lakers defensive woes. he is just a horrible defender. i mean he gets steals but just gets abused by other point guards. i would still like to see a starting lineup of
kwame, odom, george, jackson, kobe.
i think this will be our best defensive lineup
not to mention mihm, parker, cook would give us some offense off the bench. I think that lineup helps us set the tone. i think there is no doubt that it would be our best defensive lineup for sure. |
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lakerMark Starting Rotation
Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 478
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:39 am Post subject: |
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PiPisKobesByatch wrote: | steals are the worst barometer for defense there is..
look at kobe's steals.. they're way up too, but he's slacking off his man way too much.
when smush gets beat, he doesn't even TRY to recover. it totally messes up the interior defense.. and in case you haven't noticed, point guards have been tearing the lakers to shreds with their penetration and playmaking in the paint.
i still hate him as the starting point guard. would rather have his athletecism coming in off the bench.
he's a great guy off the court and his contributions are admirable, but i want somebody who will stay in front of his man and create shots for others, while shooting consistently.
fact is.. smush gave up 21 and 10 to a rookie pg.. and also, he got beat off the pick/roll when he got the steals.. it's just that the arena was so loud that cp3 couldn't hear him sneak up on him from behind to get the steals. |
If you did not notice point guards killed us when we won 3 championships in a row. I do not remember us containing Iverson in that championship year, I do not remember us slowing down Bibby during our championship years, I even remember getting torched by Troy Hudson during our glory days, I guess you don't consider the charges Fisher used to take part of good defense either if steals don't count. If Smush gave up 21 to a rookie and picked the rookies pocket 3 times and all resulting in points lets say 6 Smush scores 16 and the steals came in crunch time who won the battle the rookie or Smush? |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:41 am Post subject: |
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Dennis_D wrote: | TG711 wrote: | I know I'm a little negative on him, but also what's with the "I went to work TODAY." Does that mean he doesn't come to work some days? That he doesn't play hard, or focus like that? His production sure looks that way. |
I watched the game on NBA TV where they had the Hornets broadcast. At one point, they talked to Bill Walton and one of the things Bill talked about was that the NBA had a lot of people working at a Habitat For Humanity site earlier that day. Bill talked about the former NBA greats that were there. Apparently Smush was there also and did some hammering. I wonder what other Lakers showed up. |
I did my part, I got hammered. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Car54 Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 14424
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:46 am Post subject: |
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lakerMark wrote: | PiPisKobesByatch wrote: | steals are the worst barometer for defense there is..
look at kobe's steals.. they're way up too, but he's slacking off his man way too much.
when smush gets beat, he doesn't even TRY to recover. it totally messes up the interior defense.. and in case you haven't noticed, point guards have been tearing the lakers to shreds with their penetration and playmaking in the paint.
i still hate him as the starting point guard. would rather have his athletecism coming in off the bench.
he's a great guy off the court and his contributions are admirable, but i want somebody who will stay in front of his man and create shots for others, while shooting consistently.
fact is.. smush gave up 21 and 10 to a rookie pg.. and also, he got beat off the pick/roll when he got the steals.. it's just that the arena was so loud that cp3 couldn't hear him sneak up on him from behind to get the steals. |
If you did not notice point guards killed us when we won 3 championships in a row. I do not remember us containing Iverson in that championship year, I do not remember us slowing down Bibby during our championship years, I even remember getting torched by Troy Hudson during our glory days, I guess you don't consider the charges Fisher used to take part of good defense either if steals don't count. If Smush gave up 21 to a rookie and picked the rookies pocket 3 times and all resulting in points lets say 6 Smush scores 16 and the steals came in crunch time who won the battle the rookie or Smush? |
good post mark |
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Addicus Star Player
Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 9642 Location: Dave's Pimp Palace
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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There is no such thing as staying in front of these small, quick guards anymore without fouling out. I've said before that if this was the 80's/90's when you could hand check, Smush would be a premier defender.
I like him, but he can improve as can everyone on the roster including Kobe.
P.S. - I have relinquised my rights to the Avatar to lakerMark who owned it first. It has been replaced with a picture of where Kobe plays basketball while everyone else is on Planet Earth. _________________ Stop crying and start doing.
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/addicusbrown |
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angel Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2004 Posts: 14226 Location: city of angels
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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Smush is only 24 years old. He only played 82 games in his career prior to the Lakers. The kid is learning and improving. _________________ "Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." ~~Martin Luther King Jr.~~ |
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HawaiianPunch Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 441 Location: El Segundo, CA
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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angel wrote: | Smush is only 24 years old. He only played 82 games in his career prior to the Lakers. The kid is learning and improving. |
Seriously. Smush is not a problem on the Lakers. The guy is a solid PG.
PF is the Lakers problem. |
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JuiceMonkey Star Player
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 1169
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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PiPisKobesByatch wrote: | steals are the worst barometer for defense there is..
look at kobe's steals.. they're way up too, but he's slacking off his man way too much.
when smush gets beat, he doesn't even TRY to recover. it totally messes up the interior defense.. and in case you haven't noticed, point guards have been tearing the lakers to shreds with their penetration and playmaking in the paint.
i still hate him as the starting point guard. would rather have his athletecism coming in off the bench.
he's a great guy off the court and his contributions are admirable, but i want somebody who will stay in front of his man and create shots for others, while shooting consistently.
fact is.. smush gave up 21 and 10 to a rookie pg.. and also, he got beat off the pick/roll when he got the steals.. it's just that the arena was so loud that cp3 couldn't hear him sneak up on him from behind to get the steals. |
haha, theres always pictures of him watching his man jumping into chris mihm, way behind play. ur right, he never ever even tries to get back into the play, he just watches his stupidity pick up a foul on our only shotblocker or another one of our bigmen. thats what pisses me off about him the most, hes athletic with a great wingspan and has an ability to play good defense if he just knew how. instead, its reaches galore and maybe a 10 percent success rate, and we saw a couple of those successes last night. our guard spot is probably our worst spot on the court, we literally have to play who sucks less on that night, smush or sasha. something that needs to be upgraded for sure. |
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magic_bryant Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Oct 2002 Posts: 18179
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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I can't stand Smush. He gives up on plays in an attempt to do his best Chucky Atkins impersonation.
And what's worse is that he doesn't even seem to understand the concept of a swing pass to open the triangle up. How often does he throw the extra pass? I prefer guys overpassing, it builds chemistry.
Smush HAS been better as of late. Guess he's beginning to realize that the organization won't stand for a primadonna at PG. _________________ Stephon Marbury on Kobe: "He's the only person on 'dis earth that can do 'dat. He guards people, like shuts 'em down. Then, to do 'dat on 'da offensive end. It's like 'Damn, I can't score on him AND he about to bust my ass." |
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lakers0505 Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 10701
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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I think we forget at time, he is a summer league pickup, thats puttin up quality numbers, hes not an all star, so its kind of unfair of us too expect him too be doing everything great. IF we want a lockdown defender we need too go and get a proven guy , thats know for that, not many pg in the league are like that. |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | Dennis_D wrote: | TG711 wrote: | I know I'm a little negative on him, but also what's with the "I went to work TODAY." Does that mean he doesn't come to work some days? That he doesn't play hard, or focus like that? His production sure looks that way. |
I watched the game on NBA TV where they had the Hornets broadcast. At one point, they talked to Bill Walton and one of the things Bill talked about was that the NBA had a lot of people working at a Habitat For Humanity site earlier that day. Bill talked about the former NBA greats that were there. Apparently Smush was there also and did some hammering. I wonder what other Lakers showed up. |
I did my part, I got hammered. |
And I'm trying to figure out why people put notches in books. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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LakerLanny Retired Number
Joined: 24 Oct 2001 Posts: 47565
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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lakertim wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | Dennis_D wrote: | TG711 wrote: | I know I'm a little negative on him, but also what's with the "I went to work TODAY." Does that mean he doesn't come to work some days? That he doesn't play hard, or focus like that? His production sure looks that way. |
I watched the game on NBA TV where they had the Hornets broadcast. At one point, they talked to Bill Walton and one of the things Bill talked about was that the NBA had a lot of people working at a Habitat For Humanity site earlier that day. Bill talked about the former NBA greats that were there. Apparently Smush was there also and did some hammering. I wonder what other Lakers showed up. |
I did my part, I got hammered. |
And I'm trying to figure out why people put notches in books. |
Maybe it is his little black book. _________________ Love, Laker Lanny |
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waterman40 Star Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2003 Posts: 6280 Location: Central Coast
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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I guess some of the people here want Chucky back as the starting PG in place of Smush. _________________ LAKERS 2019-2020: NBA World Champions! |
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eniq 0x00 Star Player
Joined: 06 Aug 2005 Posts: 2724
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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magic_bryant wrote: | I can't stand Smush. He gives up on plays in an attempt to do his best Chucky Atkins impersonation.
And what's worse is that he doesn't even seem to understand the concept of a swing pass to open the triangle up. How often does he throw the extra pass? I prefer guys overpassing, it builds chemistry.
Smush HAS been better as of late. Guess he's beginning to realize that the organization won't stand for a primadonna at PG. |
The worst thing for Smush was being thrust into a starter role (through meager, yet solid play) from the get-go; it would've been better if he was brought along more slowly from the bench.
But he'll learn-hopefully. _________________ "In essence, the trade was: Shaq, Rick Fox and Gary Payton for Odom, Kwame, Mihm, Profit, 2nd round picks, a 1st round pick and 30 million in luxury tax saviings." - LakerJam
^^ Farmar
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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waterman40 wrote: | I guess some of the people here want Chucky back as the starting PG in place of Smush. |
Big difference. Chucky couldn't play defense. Smush can play defense, but sometimes chooses not to. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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LA_Lakers_Rule Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Aug 2004 Posts: 19482 Location: The X-Files
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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ColbyBriant wrote:
Quote: | now i gotta ask. wassup with the way he shaves his head? thats just goofy. |
Haven't you ever seen a part before? _________________ Rule = win titles
Good judgment comes from experience and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. - Will Rogers ... |
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lakers2626 Star Player
Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 1948
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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LA_Lakers_Rule wrote: | ColbyBriant wrote:
Quote: | now i gotta ask. wassup with the way he shaves his head? thats just goofy. |
Haven't you ever seen a part before? |
80's early 90's |
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LA_Lakers_Rule Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Aug 2004 Posts: 19482 Location: The X-Files
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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angel wrote:
Quote: | Smush is only 24 years old. He only played 82 games in his career prior to the Lakers. The kid is learning and improving. |
Absolutely...
I don't really understand all of the negative comments on Smush. Of course I didn't understand all of the negative comments on George last year. For that matter on Sasha last year either considering his age.
Smush plays really well above the rim and is often very creative on drives and finishes pretty well. Yes he does gamble but Smush is ultimately tied for 7th in the league with Kobe in steals at the guard position. Steals often result in at least 2 points, which is not a bad thing. Also while Kobe is allowed to roam on defense which gives him the opportunity to pick up his stats in steals it appears Smush is not apparently allowed to roam but instead must stay on his man thus his steals are somehow a detrimate as suggested by some.
Frankly I think if we were to be honest with ourselves we would have never expected Smush to be a starting guard and averaging double digit figures when we first invited him to camp.
Based on his past performance angel is absolutely right! Smush has made rather dramatic improvements this year over previous years and hence I think he deserves a little more support than he seems to get on the board. But then again it seems that a lot of the Lakers deserve a little more support as fans rather than alway dumping on one player and then the next just to vent frustration on a team that has been inconsistent this year.
Fact is the Lakers have improved over last year and have a lot of players who are still learning a system that (as I've said again and again) Phil says is never mastered in less than two years. Young players learning a complicated system under new coaching will tend to be inconsistent. _________________ Rule = win titles
Good judgment comes from experience and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. - Will Rogers ... |
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JuiceMonkey Star Player
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 1169
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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LA_Lakers_Rule wrote: | angel wrote:
Quote: | Smush is only 24 years old. He only played 82 games in his career prior to the Lakers. The kid is learning and improving. |
Absolutely...
I don't really understand all of the negative comments on Smush. Of course I didn't understand all of the negative comments on George last year. For that matter on Sasha last year either considering his age.
Smush plays really well above the rim and is often very creative on drives and finishes pretty well. Yes he does gamble but Smush is ultimately tied for 7th in the league with Kobe in steals at the guard position. Steals often result in at least 2 points, which is not a bad thing. Also while Kobe is allowed to roam on defense which gives him the opportunity to pick up his stats in steals it appears Smush is not apparently allowed to roam but instead must stay on his man thus his steals are somehow a detrimate as suggested by some.
Frankly I think if we were to be honest with ourselves we would have never expected Smush to be a starting guard and averaging double digit figures when we first invited him to camp.
Based on his past performance angel is absolutely right! Smush has made rather dramatic improvements this year over previous years and hence I think he deserves a little more support than he seems to get on the board. But then again it seems that a lot of the Lakers deserve a little more support as fans rather than alway dumping on one player and then the next just to vent frustration on a team that has been inconsistent this year.
Fact is the Lakers have improved over last year and have a lot of players who are still learning a system that (as I've said again and again) Phil says is never mastered in less than two years. Young players learning a complicated system under new coaching will tend to be inconsistent. |
people arent, at least a lot of us, really upset with smush's offensive production. he gives us just about what we could ask for at that position, at times he makes really stupid lazy mistakes and people wont like that. anyways, his defense is basically the key for our team's entire setup, as is usually the case at the point. the problem a lot of us have with the guy is that sometimes its like he doesnt even try on the defensive end. thats where he should be putting all of his energy for us to be as successful as we can be. he'll reach and then not even try to get back in the play, just watches as one of his teamates have to take a foul for his poor decision. when ur a young player that never had much success in the league, u should be busting ur butt on every play on the court, and particularly on the defensive end for a "point guard" because thats where the other team's offense starts. frustration with smush exists because the guy is a physical specimen, tall, lanky, athletic with a huge wingspan. he could be such a better defensive player than the one he is now. all the physical things are there but he just is lazy out there a lot of the times, and puts our entire team in jeopardy.
unfortunatley for us, our only other guard, sasha's, problem is that he doesnt have the same physical gifts that smush has. he has all the effort we could ask for and always hustles back to be a pest and get back in plays. so, its kind of a problem when we have one guard with superior physical aspects being lazy on the defensive end vs. an unathletic guard who will always bust his butt out there. either way, we need some kind of upgrade at this position. |
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Stylistic Stylez Star Player
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 4336
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Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:52 am Post subject: |
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smush got some long ass arms. and he was a NY playground player as well...anyone kno his nickname while playin in New York |
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KwamesMyGuy Star Player
Joined: 22 May 2005 Posts: 3630
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Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:55 am Post subject: |
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Stylistic Stylez wrote: | smush got some long ass arms. and he was a NY playground player as well...anyone kno his nickname while playin in New York |
Grim reaper |
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LA_Lakers_Rule Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Aug 2004 Posts: 19482 Location: The X-Files
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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Up another notch again, imo after last nights game against the Spurs.
fg: 6-12
ft: 6-6
stl: 3
pts: 18
That's following a very impressive game in NO, which is what I think inspired this thread, where Smush went:
fg: 7-10
ft: 2-2
stl: 5
pts: 16
(also had 7 assists)
Smush totals for last 2 games:
fg: 13-22 -- 60%
ft: 8-8 -- 100%
stl: 8 -- 4 per game average
pts: 34 -- 17 ppg average _________________ Rule = win titles
Good judgment comes from experience and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. - Will Rogers ... |
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mm708 Starting Rotation
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 246
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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His defense still sucks. |
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LA_Lakers_Rule Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Aug 2004 Posts: 19482 Location: The X-Files
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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^ If Smush could continue to play close to the numbers that he has had in the last 2 games (see above post).
Is defense is GOOD ENOUGH!!! _________________ Rule = win titles
Good judgment comes from experience and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. - Will Rogers ... |
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