Do you want this team to stay together and grow or do you want to see a new look Lakers?
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THE_SHOES
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:54 am    Post subject:

You like Lewis better as well? Just forget how you think I feel about the player, or how anybody else for that matter. It is irrelevant anyway. As a Laker fan this is about whose good, and who is better. (bleep) what I think about him. Has nothing to do with the facts...

Is Lewis better than Odom?
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:01 am    Post subject:

THE_SHOES wrote:
You like Lewis better as well?


That's a tough question. You know Lamar is a very good al around player, but his inconsistency and poor decicions down the stretch leave a lot of questionmarks. If we can land a rebounder and Lewis, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I the other hand, if we can land a scorer with Lamar while him playing as a third option, yes too.

The problem is that either with Lamar or Lewis, we need one other good player to help, cause they are not tat good
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:06 am    Post subject:

boricua wrote:
THE_SHOES wrote:
You like Lewis better as well?


That's a tough question. You know Lamar is a very good al around player, but his inconsistency and poor decicions down the stretch leave a lot of questionmarks. If we can land a rebounder and Lewis, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I the other hand, if we can land a scorer with Lamar while him playing as a third option, yes too.

The problem is that either with Lamar or Lewis, we need one other good player to help, cause they are not tat good

Good post.

Though I think you need more help with Lewis. You are ignoring that Rahsard would neither be the team's leading rebounder or assist man. We don't want Kobe back to facilitating. So that's why we would need Shard+PF(for rebounding)+PG(for setting up players and the offense)

In contrast with Odom - we probably need a PF that can score more and a defensive PG.

I have no problem with either route - though I think Odom gives the team more versatility and it's easier to fill in the parts with him on the roster than Shard (assuming that Odom goes straight up for Shard in a deal)
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THE_SHOES
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:06 am    Post subject:

Not an answer boricua... Making trades to just be making em is silly. This is the point....
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:11 am    Post subject:

lamar is not the problem here, his paycheck is, so trading him for Lewis would make this team more capable in $$$
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:15 am    Post subject:

Lateral moves, or less for money concerns? If Lewis is making less than LO it can't be that much less. The team should be looking to improve personnel not lower it at this point to save money. The 07 plan is already in place...
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:17 am    Post subject:

THE_SHOES wrote:
Lateral moves, or less for money concerns? If Lewis is making less than LO it can't be that much less. The team should be looking to improve personnel not lower it at this point to save money. The 07 plan is already in place...

Exactly.

If we cut Kwame in 2007, we have enough space to sign a Dirk Nowitzki or Chris Bosh.

Whether that happens is another story, but the money thing is not an issue right now.

In the last 2-3 years, Lakers have not given or taken on anyone with longterm contracts outside of Bryant and Odom.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:22 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

In the last 2-3 years, Lakers have not given or taken on anyone with longterm contracts outside of Bryant and Odom.


But odom makes more money than he's worth man, and that's my point. We should try to trade him so we can use more money to have a better roster
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:27 am    Post subject:

boricua wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:

In the last 2-3 years, Lakers have not given or taken on anyone with longterm contracts outside of Bryant and Odom.


But odom makes more money than he's worth man, and that's my point. We should try to trade him so we can use more money to have a better roster

This has been dismissed so many times, it's not even a topic anymore. Odom makes less than 30+ players in the NBA. His salary is in the 30-50 range of NBA players and that's where it should be. He is considered a top 30-50 player in the NBA and is paid as such.

Some of you act as if he's Tyson Chandler. He is not a guy that's not earning his money. Any player that gives a team 14+/10-/5+ is going to be paid big money.
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bounty
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:42 am    Post subject:

THE_SHOES wrote:
bounty wrote:
LakerJam wrote:
I like Booz, but I think we over-rate Rashard Lewis here. He's a bad rebounder for his size and is just beyond a pathetic defender. Not my top choice at all. At least Booz, while not a great defender, is an inside presence who will score and rebound. Rashard is a one-dimensional guy who only looks to score. Yeah, he'll give you 20 a night, but that's about all you get, and what does he give up to his opponent? There's a reason that team is in the cellar. Also, can someone please tell me how it's possible for a guy whose 6'10" to be out-rebounded by many small guards in this league? That's just flat out being lazy about doing any real dirty work and that's not impressive. I want multi-dimensional guys who do more than just one thing. If we want to build a championship team, we need the core guys to do more than just 1 thing.

I'd take Rashard if all it took was giving up spare parts, but I disagree that he's better than Odom. Just because he scores 6 more points per game, doesn't make his all-around game superior; and I think we put far too much emphasis here on scoring instead of defense and rebounding. Look, I don't mind adding a pure scorer, but for what Rashard is going to command, I'll take a pass on paying a guy near max money just to score. For near max, he dam well better also rebound, defend, block some shots, do SOMETHING else. I mean, does anyone really think that 6 pts. equals or exceeds a player grabbing nearly twice as many rebounds and between 2-3 times as many assists, because that's the difference between Rashard and Odom.

Its not about points as much as its about taking pressure off the franchise. RLewis D is better than Lo's for the simple fact that HE HAS TO BE guarded on the other end. no breaks for his guy. his POST play is so much better than LO's its not even funny. We saw when LO was out that we were able to rebound the ball better than the other team.

Its proven if we dont get 40 from Kobe we probably dont win. thats not good for the TEAM. RLewis has carried the O plenty of night when ray was off

Dont sell this faciitator BS b/c PJ has clearly HAD TO TAKE that responsibility off LO's shoulders, and says HE WANTS MORE PTS.

Now add Booz for Mihm( i love mihm) we have another guys who can board and give you O. This team is so poorly constructed its ridiculous.

When one guy has to score 40 to win, you need fixin


It is amazing to watch you skewer ever line of logic towards your hate for a single player !
This is the biggiest crock of (bleep) you've put out yet!

Incidentally the Lakers have won with Kobe scoring less than 40 btw and, contrary to popular belief Kobe enjoys scoring in the 40's. Trust me he is feeling no pain.

LO is not only the leading rebounder on this team, he is one of the best in the league so, no the team will not rebound better without him.
Rashard is playing with one of the leagues premier 2 guards now. Ray Allen isn't getting any relief as you put it from his prescensce so, why would he be so regal in the purple, and gold. 1 dimension vs 3 because you don't like Odom? Doubt that happens bro...

As usual you completely misunderstood what took place between coach and player. Jackson didn't take any load off of Odom he expanded his assignment.

bounty do everybody a favor. Learn the game! Watch what takes place carefully. Try and, comprehend. If you don't understand you better ask somebody! This is the worse argument in the world if it is a campagn for Lewis.

Yup. Its clear LO isnt the right type of Brain to facilitate the O. PJ has taken most of that away from him, unfortunately putting it more on Kobe.

What are LO's 3 dimensions? When a player is inconsistent we usually dont count that as a dimension but if you insist
RBs
Inconsistent
?
Thats 2.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:38 am    Post subject:

I think waiting for some of the players to develop on this team will pay dividens sooner than later.

The moves that need to be made, in my opinion, aren't that earth shattering.

There is a need for a second scorer, but they don't need to be an allstar, and they don't need to even average 20pts. a game. I think a consistent 16pt. scorer to go with Kobe and Lamar would be enough. Why? Because another competent scorer out there will command attention, attention that cannot be sent Kobe or Lamar's way, it make the defense more honest.

I want to see how Bynum and Turiaf develop, that could solve our interior defense problems.

Smush is a steal in my opinion. People forget L.A. got him for nothing. He does a lot of good things and really all he needs is a little more focus on fundimentals.

So my moves would be going after someone like a Mo Peterson or a Stephen Jackson. If Vlade COULD actually convince Peja to come here for the MLE, that would be perfect. He may be a choke artist, but at least theres Kobe to take the last shot.

So now you either move Peja to a guard spot with Kobe and Lamar running the show, or you slide Odom to PF again and go from there.

Ideally, I'd like to bring someone in without giving up Mihm. Kwame is looking better but Mihm has been more consistent. So...

Keep: Kobe, Odom, Smush, Bynum, Turiaf, Mihm

On the bubble: Kwame, Cook

Everyone else would be fair game in my eyes.

And then try to go after Peterson or Jackson or if lucky, get Peja cheap.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:51 am    Post subject:

Keep Lamar, Smush, Kwame, Andrew, Ronny and Von Wafer. Mihm and Cook are so and so, Mihm could bring us some help via trade and Cook is on contract year, so chances are he leaves the town. Devean could be re-signed, Profit should be acquired coming summer.

With trades the Lakers should go for veterans, bringing a vet big and a vet PG. If there are good players available for considerable price, it would be worth thinking. Young potential players can also be signed for small money. The idea is anyways to keep the core of the team, let them improve and grow together. That is the best way to build a team, that's what the majority of other championship teams have done.


PS. Someone may have gotten a stroke upon seeing Kobe's name missing from the list of the players to be kept. The reason he was left out was that KB8 will be a Laker for life. There's no power that could get him out of here.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:52 am    Post subject:

we're just missing a consistant PG that can create. Other than that we just need to grow as a team.

People we should lose this off season:

Devin Green
Aaron Mckie
Von Wafer

People we can consider losing:

Sasha Vujacic
Luke Walton
Brian Cook
Jim Jackson
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THE_SHOES
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:05 am    Post subject:

bounty wrote:
THE_SHOES wrote:
bounty wrote:
LakerJam wrote:
I like Booz, but I think we over-rate Rashard Lewis here. He's a bad rebounder for his size and is just beyond a pathetic defender. Not my top choice at all. At least Booz, while not a great defender, is an inside presence who will score and rebound. Rashard is a one-dimensional guy who only looks to score. Yeah, he'll give you 20 a night, but that's about all you get, and what does he give up to his opponent? There's a reason that team is in the cellar. Also, can someone please tell me how it's possible for a guy whose 6'10" to be out-rebounded by many small guards in this league? That's just flat out being lazy about doing any real dirty work and that's not impressive. I want multi-dimensional guys who do more than just one thing. If we want to build a championship team, we need the core guys to do more than just 1 thing.

I'd take Rashard if all it took was giving up spare parts, but I disagree that he's better than Odom. Just because he scores 6 more points per game, doesn't make his all-around game superior; and I think we put far too much emphasis here on scoring instead of defense and rebounding. Look, I don't mind adding a pure scorer, but for what Rashard is going to command, I'll take a pass on paying a guy near max money just to score. For near max, he dam well better also rebound, defend, block some shots, do SOMETHING else. I mean, does anyone really think that 6 pts. equals or exceeds a player grabbing nearly twice as many rebounds and between 2-3 times as many assists, because that's the difference between Rashard and Odom.

Its not about points as much as its about taking pressure off the franchise. RLewis D is better than Lo's for the simple fact that HE HAS TO BE guarded on the other end. no breaks for his guy. his POST play is so much better than LO's its not even funny. We saw when LO was out that we were able to rebound the ball better than the other team.

Its proven if we dont get 40 from Kobe we probably dont win. thats not good for the TEAM. RLewis has carried the O plenty of night when ray was off

Dont sell this faciitator BS b/c PJ has clearly HAD TO TAKE that responsibility off LO's shoulders, and says HE WANTS MORE PTS.

Now add Booz for Mihm( i love mihm) we have another guys who can board and give you O. This team is so poorly constructed its ridiculous.

When one guy has to score 40 to win, you need fixin


It is amazing to watch you skewer ever line of logic towards your hate for a single player !
This is the biggiest crock of (bleep) you've put out yet!

Incidentally the Lakers have won with Kobe scoring less than 40 btw and, contrary to popular belief Kobe enjoys scoring in the 40's. Trust me he is feeling no pain.

LO is not only the leading rebounder on this team, he is one of the best in the league so, no the team will not rebound better without him.
Rashard is playing with one of the leagues premier 2 guards now. Ray Allen isn't getting any relief as you put it from his prescensce so, why would he be so regal in the purple, and gold. 1 dimension vs 3 because you don't like Odom? Doubt that happens bro...

As usual you completely misunderstood what took place between coach and player. Jackson didn't take any load off of Odom he expanded his assignment.

bounty do everybody a favor. Learn the game! Watch what takes place carefully. Try and, comprehend. If you don't understand you better ask somebody! This is the worse argument in the world if it is a campagn for Lewis.

Yup. Its clear LO isnt the right type of Brain to facilitate the O. PJ has taken most of that away from him, unfortunately putting it more on Kobe.

What are LO's 3 dimensions? When a player is inconsistent we usually dont count that as a dimension but if you insist
RBs
Inconsistent
?
Thats 2.


Again who actually called you and told you that Kobe has been returned to intiator, and that LO has been expelled from the position?

Who bounty? Who the (bleep) told you that?
LO has been instructed to take more shots because the others with nothing more than assistance for there shots aren't getting enough done. Not one time was there an implication that LO was failing in his duties as initiator to the point that he has been told to step aside.

Why do you think that?
Gggggggeeeezzzzuuusssss!

Somebody, anybody who told this dude that?!
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DaggerInTheHeart
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:09 am    Post subject:

THE_SHOES wrote:
Again who actually called you and told you that Kobe has been returned to intiator, and that LO has been expelled from the position?

Who bounty? Who the (bleep) told you that?
LO has been instructed to take more shots because the others with nothing more than assistance for there shots aren't getting enough done. Not one time was there an implication that LO was failing in his duties as initiator to the point that he has been told to step aside.

Why do you think that?
Gggggggeeeezzzzuuusssss!

Somebody, anybody who told this dude that?!


If the Lakers ever decided to tell Odom to step down as the initiator then Kobe has to take that role something he did last year that caused his body to break-down.

Odom has a good assist ratio.

what he doesn't do is play at a high level everygame, thats what seprates him from being a true all-star he's borned to be inconsistent.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:11 am    Post subject:

THE_SHOES wrote:
bounty wrote:
THE_SHOES wrote:
bounty wrote:
LakerJam wrote:
I like Booz, but I think we over-rate Rashard Lewis here. He's a bad rebounder for his size and is just beyond a pathetic defender. Not my top choice at all. At least Booz, while not a great defender, is an inside presence who will score and rebound. Rashard is a one-dimensional guy who only looks to score. Yeah, he'll give you 20 a night, but that's about all you get, and what does he give up to his opponent? There's a reason that team is in the cellar. Also, can someone please tell me how it's possible for a guy whose 6'10" to be out-rebounded by many small guards in this league? That's just flat out being lazy about doing any real dirty work and that's not impressive. I want multi-dimensional guys who do more than just one thing. If we want to build a championship team, we need the core guys to do more than just 1 thing.

I'd take Rashard if all it took was giving up spare parts, but I disagree that he's better than Odom. Just because he scores 6 more points per game, doesn't make his all-around game superior; and I think we put far too much emphasis here on scoring instead of defense and rebounding. Look, I don't mind adding a pure scorer, but for what Rashard is going to command, I'll take a pass on paying a guy near max money just to score. For near max, he dam well better also rebound, defend, block some shots, do SOMETHING else. I mean, does anyone really think that 6 pts. equals or exceeds a player grabbing nearly twice as many rebounds and between 2-3 times as many assists, because that's the difference between Rashard and Odom.

Its not about points as much as its about taking pressure off the franchise. RLewis D is better than Lo's for the simple fact that HE HAS TO BE guarded on the other end. no breaks for his guy. his POST play is so much better than LO's its not even funny. We saw when LO was out that we were able to rebound the ball better than the other team.

Its proven if we dont get 40 from Kobe we probably dont win. thats not good for the TEAM. RLewis has carried the O plenty of night when ray was off

Dont sell this faciitator BS b/c PJ has clearly HAD TO TAKE that responsibility off LO's shoulders, and says HE WANTS MORE PTS.

Now add Booz for Mihm( i love mihm) we have another guys who can board and give you O. This team is so poorly constructed its ridiculous.

When one guy has to score 40 to win, you need fixin


It is amazing to watch you skewer ever line of logic towards your hate for a single player !
This is the biggiest crock of (bleep) you've put out yet!

Incidentally the Lakers have won with Kobe scoring less than 40 btw and, contrary to popular belief Kobe enjoys scoring in the 40's. Trust me he is feeling no pain.

LO is not only the leading rebounder on this team, he is one of the best in the league so, no the team will not rebound better without him.
Rashard is playing with one of the leagues premier 2 guards now. Ray Allen isn't getting any relief as you put it from his prescensce so, why would he be so regal in the purple, and gold. 1 dimension vs 3 because you don't like Odom? Doubt that happens bro...

As usual you completely misunderstood what took place between coach and player. Jackson didn't take any load off of Odom he expanded his assignment.

bounty do everybody a favor. Learn the game! Watch what takes place carefully. Try and, comprehend. If you don't understand you better ask somebody! This is the worse argument in the world if it is a campagn for Lewis.

Yup. Its clear LO isnt the right type of Brain to facilitate the O. PJ has taken most of that away from him, unfortunately putting it more on Kobe.

What are LO's 3 dimensions? When a player is inconsistent we usually dont count that as a dimension but if you insist
RBs
Inconsistent
?
Thats 2.


Again who actually called you and told you that Kobe has been returned to intiator, and that LO has been expelled from the position?

Who bounty? Who the (bleep) told you that?
LO has been instructed to take more shots because the others with nothing more than assistance for there shots aren't getting enough done. Not one time was there an implication that LO was failing in his duties as initiator to the point that he has been told to step aside.

Why do you think that?
Gggggggeeeezzzzuuusssss!

Somebody, anybody who told this dude that?!

Watch the games thats what told me. I dont dig through the trash for quotes, but go look at some recent PJ ones and he said it around all-star game. Just watch thats all thats all any of us do.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:12 am    Post subject:

I laugh at people in here talking about trading Smush. Smush is earning under 1 million and is better than players making 2 to 5, no he is not a Tony Parker but come on people let me give you an example Andre Miller averages 14pts 8 assists and 3 turnovers a game for around 8mil a year Smush 11pts 3.5 assists and 1.8 turnovers and makes 7 mil less. Smush is a bargain and will improve. Kwame will be here and Mihm will be moved just based on value. Cook definitely expendable, George can be replaced, and I am not interested in this so called 2007 plan if the right players become available and the Lakers can get them Dr. Buss should and will go over that Salary Cap and pay the Luxury Tax but only for a serious threat to compete for a ring. Just imagine Detroit does not win the Championship and decides not to pay Big Ben the max., should the Lakers go after him disregarding the 2007 plan?
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:16 am    Post subject:

Hard to get mad at Smush...he's a bargain. Lakers need a bonafide starting PG that can do it on both ends and a another guy that can score. I'd like to think Kwame could one day get to 15-10 a game but...
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:19 am    Post subject:

I agree with lakermark, Smush is developing into a decent PG

People say Lamar is developing but he has been here for 7 season as a starter. Smush is a kid with his first starting assignament, he's underpaid to what he is doing now
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:24 am    Post subject:

Can a mod check the IP address of Bounty and Boricua? Or if Boricua was previously banned.

Because something tells me I have seen this guys post before.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:26 am    Post subject:

boricua wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:

In the last 2-3 years, Lakers have not given or taken on anyone with longterm contracts outside of Bryant and Odom.


But odom makes more money than he's worth man, and that's my point. We should try to trade him so we can use more money to have a better roster



Case closed... That is a personal judgement call...

Socks has put out a very good scale of players, and salary ranges. What Odom brings to the table is not usual. He is not overpaid. That is a myth perpetuated on this forum.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:27 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Can a mod check the IP address of Bounty and Boricua? Or if Boricua was previously banned.

Because something tells me I have seen this guys post before.


Dude this is getting way out of hand. You are literally in love with LO
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:28 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Can a mod check the IP address of Bounty and Boricua? Or if Boricua was previously banned.

Because something tells me I have seen this guys post before.


I know... I was having problems pinpointing the same thing. The problem is that he is a cross between bounty, and 40point machine... Tough to figure out huh?
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:31 am    Post subject:

THE_SHOES wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Can a mod check the IP address of Bounty and Boricua? Or if Boricua was previously banned.

Because something tells me I have seen this guys post before.


I know... I was having problems pinpointing the same thing. The problem is that he is a cross between bounty, and 40point machine... Tough to figure out huh?

KA_2 I ruled out because he has better english that this guy. Plus, KA_2 would quote everything similar to RG73 and "break it down" and respond to things I never even said

Bounty's 2nd membership or 40pt machine are looking like the 2 suspects. English/Tone of posts and constant Lewis promotion fits.


Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:33 am; edited 2 times in total
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THE_SHOES
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 29556
Location: Taiwan

PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:31 am    Post subject:

boricua wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Can a mod check the IP address of Bounty and Boricua? Or if Boricua was previously banned.

Because something tells me I have seen this guys post before.


Dude this is getting way out of hand. You are literally in love with LO


I'm a Laker fan who loves his team, and players... Don't especially like anybody hat'n on em with nothing to counter for an argument but "You are literally in love with LO" That tells me that you have nothing to offer as far as an argument other than you literally hate LO!

That immediately makes you either a troll, or the enemy in my eyes...
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