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kobekillinu2nite
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Joined: 04 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:51 pm Post subject: Kobe's clutchness: Made 21 Game-winners in career (MJ-28) |
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Late-game heroics
Throughout much of his career, Kobe Bryant has been heralded as arguably the premier "clutch" scorer in the NBA today. In a sense, this term refers to a player's ability to take over and lead his team to victory under pressure during tight games, notably at the end of regulation or in overtime periods. Bryant's exceptional ability to will his team to victory in the last seconds of the game has been compared to the legendary Michael Jordan's capacity to do the same thing. According to an NBA poll directed at general managers throughout the league before the 2005–06 season, Bryant was overwhelmingly voted as the player they would choose to take the last shot during the crucial moments of basketball games.
01/19/98: Lakers 92, Magic 89
02/13/00: Lakers 113, Nets 110 (OT)
05/10/00: Lakers 97, Suns 96 (Western Conference Semifinals)
06/14/00: Lakers 120, Pacers 118 (NBA Finals)
11/16/00: Lakers 112, Kings 110
02/07/01: Lakers 85, Suns 83
01/02/02: Lakers 87, Nuggets 86
02/22/02: Lakers 96, Hornets 94
05/12/02: Lakers 87, Spurs 85 (Western Conference Semifinals)
12/06/02: Lakers 105, Mavericks 103
04/04/03: Lakers 102, Grizzlies 101
04/06/03: Lakers 115, Suns 113 (OT)
02/17/04: Lakers 89, Blazers 86
02/19/04: Lakers 101, Nuggets 99
03/03/04: Lakers 96, Rockets 93
03/21/04: Lakers 104, Bucks 103 (OT)
04/14/04: Lakers 105, Blazers 104 (2OT)
03/13/05: Lakers 117, Bobcats 116
11/02/05: Lakers 99, Nuggets 97 (OT)
01/07/06: Lakers 112, Clippers 109
01/12/06: Lakers 99, Cavaliers 98
Note: Bryant has made 21 game-winning shots so far in his career. In comparison, Jordan made 28 throughout his career.
http://www.answers.com/topic/kobe-bryant - great page with everything u would wanna know about Kobe's career
Last edited by kobekillinu2nite on Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:03 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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kobekillinu2nite
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Joined: 04 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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I looked this up because a player on my team that i coach said he'd take AI to take the last game shot over Kobe. He is stunted, I know, So I did the research, and Here it is above you. He will undoubtedly surpass MJ for most game winners. Heck he only needs 7 more to tie. Kobe still got 10 more years of ball left.............  |
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shnjb
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Joined: 08 Oct 2002
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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7 away from Jordan, and still many years to go.
Sounds good. |
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un1bomber
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| is there a record for most career game winners? |
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kobekillinu2nite
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| un1bomber wrote: | | is there a record for most career game winners? |
I believe it's MJ, lemme do some more research, but here is another link on Kobe's clutchness..http://nbasource.blogspot.com/2005/05/nbas-most-clutch-players.html
"2. Kobe Bryant
Up until this season, I'm not sure anyone would have argued that with the game on the line, there is another player you would rather have taking the last shot than Kobe Bryant. Aside from being arguably the toughest player to man up in the NBA, Kobe also has an ability to bust out the unthinkable play that nobody else has since Michael Jordan. How many times have we watched him seemingly hang in the air only to make the spectacular 'and one'? Or bang back-to-back desperation jumpers to suddenly shift the momentum of the game? What really separates Kobe Bryant from everyone else as a clutch player is his level of competitiveness and determination, one that we haven't seen since Mike. It's like this indescribable drive from within that almost makes it feel as though he's destined to win. Is there another player that makes your heart beat faster, for better or worse, than Kobe Bryant as he dribbles out the clock preparing to make his final move to win the game? Think about it-- there's nobody. And no matter how much you may want to attribute the success of the Lakers to the Big Fella, Kobe Bryant was the go-to guy down the stretch in the midst of a dynasty run. Nobody else in the league can make that claim. |
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Alpha
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Location: hawaii
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks kku2n for the post and link! |
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kobekillinu2nite
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Joined: 04 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Alpha wrote: | | Thanks kku2n for the post and link! |
WORD Your avatar reminds me of "MINE, MINE, MINE!!!" |
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kobekillinu2nite
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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Here is a stat that is actually very interesting. This is the list of players that have the best and worst percentage of game-winning shot percentages. http://www.82games.com/random12.htm
Exert from link: (sorry about the alignment. I put bold around FGA, and underlined for FGM) BTW, The numbers are based on the combined regular season games for 03-04, 04-05 and 05-06 (through Feb. 26th
Leading "Game Winning Shot" Players
Player Fgm Fga Fg% Ftm Fta Ast T/O
League Wide 393 1323 .297 273 367 174 127
Carmelo Anthony 8 14 .571 4 6 0 1
Steve Francis 8 18 .444 3 3 2 1
Allen Iverson 8 18 .444 5 7 1 2
Joe Johnson 7 16 .438 0 0 0 1
Michael Redd 7 17 .412 4 5 0 1
Tracy McGrady 7 22 .318 8 8 0 0
Vince Carter 7 25 .280 4 4 3 2
Jalen Rose 6 10 .600 4 5 0 4
Ben Gordon 6 12 .500 0 0 1 0
Damon Stoudamire 6 12 .500 0 0 4 1
Paul Pierce 6 17 .353 8 9 5 3
**Kobe Bryant 6 25 .240 8 9 0 1
Zach Randolph 5 8 .625 4 5 0 0
Pau Gasol 5 9 .556 3 4 1 1
Antawn Jamison 5 9 .556 0 0 0 0
"Kobe Bryant meanwhile has indeed had six such made shots over the past two and a half seasons, but at a pretty low conversion rate, even factoring in his free throws. The other thing with Kobe is that he's not looking to pass the ball! Zero assists in these "final possession" states with 25 shots taken says something. " |
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FerrisVille
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| That cant be right, didnt Kobe hit a game winner against Detroit in Game 2..Yes he did, I dont see that on the list. |
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minervafilms
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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Well, that's the thing. While Kobe has of course made an enormous amount of clutch shots in his career, I would almost go out on a limb and say he's TAKEN far more last shots than any other player in the game...by some distance....since MJ. So I would certainly hope he's made more than anyone else.
The stats above are a little worrying. 6/25 in the last 3 seasons is not a good percentage by any means. McGrady has more winners off less shots. And not a single assist for Kobe? Maybe that's why the Lakers have a hard time in close games. It's all too predictable. Ball comes in to Number 8, he's triple teamed, he makes no attempt to pass out, and he takes a 25-foot fadeaway with everyone in his face. No wonder he rarely makes them anymore. I think it's up to Kobe and Jackson to start figuring out some smarter plays at the end of games. I've been saying for a long time that Kobe should sometimes be employed as a decoy in such situations, and someone else will end up with an open, high-% shot. One of Kobe's all-time best late decisions was his pass to Horry in the corner to close out the Blazers in the first round of the 2001 playoffs. We need more of that. |
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minervafilms
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| gp5 wrote: | | That cant be right, didnt Kobe hit a game winner against Detroit in Game 2..Yes he did, I dont see that on the list. |
Nope. That sent it into overtime. |
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kobekillinu2nite
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| gp5 wrote: | | That cant be right, didnt Kobe hit a game winner against Detroit in Game 2..Yes he did, I dont see that on the list. |
Wasn't a game-winner, it tied the game at the end of regulation with that three pointer over hamilton. While Kobe scored 8 points in OT , he did not have a "game-winner" in that game. Thats is why it shows how tight Kobe is, This only shows the "game winners" Not even including the ones that tied the game, or the stretches of 5 to 6 shots in a row to bring us back "a la" 81 against the raptors. That game is clutch, but he did not have a game winner. |
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FerrisVille
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| kobekillinu2nite wrote: | | gp5 wrote: | | That cant be right, didnt Kobe hit a game winner against Detroit in Game 2..Yes he did, I dont see that on the list. |
Wasn't a game-winner, it tied the game at the end of regulation with that three pointer over hamilton. While Kobe scored 8 points in OT , he did not have a "game-winner" in that game. Thats is why it shows how tight Kobe is, This only shows the "game winners" Not even including the ones that tied the game, or the stretches of 5 to 6 shots in a row to bring us back "a la" 81 against the raptors. That game is clutch, but he did not have a game winner. |
ah yes I stand corrected. |
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un1bomber
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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that is ridiculous.. .DUNCAN is #1 on that link? he cant shoot free throws for his LIFE... much less with the game on the line... i cant believe shaq is #3 either... if he was clutch there wouldnt be such a thing as hack-a-shaq!!!!!!!!!  |
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eniq 0x00
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| minervafilms wrote: | Well, that's the thing. While Kobe has of course made an enormous amount of clutch shots in his career, I would almost go out on a limb and say he's TAKEN far more last shots than any other player in the game...by some distance....since MJ. So I would certainly hope he's made more than anyone else.
No wonder he rarely makes them anymore. I think it's up to Kobe and Jackson to start figuring out some smarter plays at the end of games. I've been saying for a long time that Kobe should sometimes be employed as a decoy in such situations, and someone else will end up with an open, high-% shot. |
What matters more is that he can make the shots and will score (before the end) to bring the team back, as well as keep the team in the game-he doesn't have to always hit the game winning shot.
And as for decoying; I can recall at least one time-last season-against New York:
He passes to Luke at the end, and the moron passes up an open look in favor of another pass to Kobe. So he does pass if an opening is available; it's just up to his teammates to convert.
People using those statistics to try to prove that Kobe will not pass to open teammate are being dishonest jerks. Those statistics don't say jack about the setup, matchups, or who was open in those games.
_________________
"In essence, the trade was: Shaq, Rick Fox and Gary Payton for Odom, Kwame, Mihm, Profit, 2nd round picks, a 1st round pick and 30 million in luxury tax saviings." - LakerJam
^^ Farmar
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kobekillinu2nite
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| un1bomber wrote: | | that is ridiculous.. .DUNCAN is #1 on that link? he cant shoot free throws for his LIFE... much less with the game on the line... i cant believe shaq is #3 either... if he was clutch there wouldnt be such a thing as hack-a-shaq!!!!!!!!! |
I know, that guy who wrote up that article don't know what the heck he talking about. I take reggie, but not after Shaq. |
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eniq 0x00
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| kobekillinu2nite wrote: | | gp5 wrote: | | That cant be right, didnt Kobe hit a game winner against Detroit in Game 2..Yes he did, I dont see that on the list. |
Wasn't a game-winner, it tied the game at the end of regulation with that three pointer over hamilton. While Kobe scored 8 points in OT , he did not have a "game-winner" in that game. Thats is why it shows how tight Kobe is, This only shows the "game winners" Not even including the ones that tied the game, or the stretches of 5 to 6 shots in a row to bring us back "a la" 81 against the raptors. That game is clutch, but he did not have a game winner. |
Exactly. I can just see a Kobe-detractor pointing to that list, as if that somehow disproves the notion of Kobe being clutch.
_________________
"In essence, the trade was: Shaq, Rick Fox and Gary Payton for Odom, Kwame, Mihm, Profit, 2nd round picks, a 1st round pick and 30 million in luxury tax saviings." - LakerJam
^^ Farmar
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ishi331
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| I know how people say how he's taken so many, that he's gonna hit some of em. But I say, who else is gonna take em on this team? No one else has the balls to but Kobe. |
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kobekillinu2nite
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Joined: 04 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| minervafilms wrote: | Well, that's the thing. While Kobe has of course made an enormous amount of clutch shots in his career, I would almost go out on a limb and say he's TAKEN far more last shots than any other player in the game...by some distance....since MJ. So I would certainly hope he's made more than anyone else.
The stats above are a little worrying. 6/25 in the last 3 seasons is not a good percentage by any means. McGrady has more winners off less shots. And not a single assist for Kobe? Maybe that's why the Lakers have a hard time in close games. It's all too predictable. Ball comes in to Number 8, he's triple teamed, he makes no attempt to pass out, and he takes a 25-foot fadeaway with everyone in his face. No wonder he rarely makes them anymore. I think it's up to Kobe and Jackson to start figuring out some smarter plays at the end of games. I've been saying for a long time that Kobe should sometimes be employed as a decoy in such situations, and someone else will end up with an open, high-% shot. One of Kobe's all-time best late decisions was his pass to Horry in the corner to close out the Blazers in the first round of the 2001 playoffs. We need more of that. |
I agree, 6/25 sucks. But also, don't we all as laker fans feel that it is the best option anywayz??? lol Also, 19 games that were winnable and we blew. That is a lot of games that were that close. |
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LakerJam
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Joined: 02 Aug 2002
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Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| kobekillinu2nite wrote: | | I looked this up because a player on my team that i coach said he'd take AI to take the last game shot over Kobe. He is stunted, I know, So I did the research, and Here it is above you. He will undoubtedly surpass MJ for most game winners. Heck he only needs 7 more to tie. Kobe still got 10 more years of ball left............. |
That is awesome of you to post this. I already knew it was Kobe 21 and MJ 28, but it's great to see it in print, plus you added all the games and stuff. Very cool. I am curious to see who does hold the record for most game winners. Wonder if it's already in the thread? I'll have to read on...
Thanks again, though! |
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kobekillinu2nite
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerJam wrote: | | kobekillinu2nite wrote: | | I looked this up because a player on my team that i coach said he'd take AI to take the last game shot over Kobe. He is stunted, I know, So I did the research, and Here it is above you. He will undoubtedly surpass MJ for most game winners. Heck he only needs 7 more to tie. Kobe still got 10 more years of ball left............. |
That is awesome of you to post this. I already knew it was Kobe 21 and MJ 28, but it's great to see it in print, plus you added all the games and stuff. Very cool. I am curious to see who does hold the record for most game winners. Wonder if it's already in the thread? I'll have to read on...
Thanks again, though! |
Googling as i watch tv, should have the stat by the end of the night |
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LakerJam
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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As for those who will undoubtedly think about taking what is a great thread and turning it into a, "See, Kobe is selfish because of no assists" crap, please DON'T. Last I checked, it was Kobe Bryant setting up tons of Fisher, Horry, Harper, Fox and even Shaq huge shots down the stretch of many games, that helped us not only win those games, but multiple titles as well. He's tried doing those same things this year as well (have we forgotten clutch passes to Odom, DG?) with some success and some failure.
I say this because some of us can't ever just appreciate the greatness of this player we're blessed to have as a Laker, without having to over-analyze what is an amazing feet, until we've somehow turned it into an insult. It's not fair nor necessary.
Last edited by LakerJam on Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:01 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Mongo
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| kobekillinu2nite wrote: | | Zero assists in these "final possession" states with 25 shots taken says something. " |
In order to get an assist, doesn't the guy you pass to have to make the shot?
enough said |
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magic_bryant
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerJam wrote: | As for those who will undoubtedly think about taking what is a great thread and turning it into a, "See, Kobe is selfish because of no assists" crap, please DON'T. Last I checked, it was Kobe Bryant setting up tons of Fisher, Horry, Harper, Fox and even Shaq huge shots down the stretch of many games, that helped us not only win those games, but multiple titles as well. He's tried doing those same things this year as well (have we forgotten clutch passes to Odom, DG?) with some success and some failure.
I say this because some of us can't ever just appreciate the greatness of this player we're blessed to have as a Laker, without having to over-analyze what is an amazing feet, until we've somehow turned it into an insult. It's not fair nor necessary. |
Exactly. I don't worry about the 6/25 at all. I'd have him shoot all 25 shots again. Also, a LOT of those games came LAST year when he was playing 42+ minutes and was dog-tired. I remember everyone worrying if he'd lost his "clutch" ability.
I hope he's cleared that up for everyone this year.
He's been more clutch this year than I've ever remembered. You can honestly count on 10+ points in the 4th qtr at this point on a good percentage, no matter HOW he's played the first 3 qtrs. Go check the Game Thread for the Hornets game. I was on his case for the selfish play, despite missing shots left and right. Everyone started to realize it as well in the 3rd qtr. I then predicted 10+ 4th qtr points on 50+% shooting.
He's just the best clutch player in the world. Maybe even better than MJ was.
_________________
Stephon Marbury on Kobe: "He's the only person on 'dis earth that can do 'dat. He guards people, like shuts 'em down. Then, to do 'dat on 'da offensive end. It's like 'Damn, I can't score on him AND he about to bust my ass." |
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Vixen
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.82games.com/0506/05LAL7E.HTM
Just for anyone that is interested in Bryant's clutch play in the last 5 minutes of close games. Granted, no other player has the ABILITY to be as clutch as Bryant in the NBA right now, but it is at in inconsistent rate. He is going to have to do a lot better then 36.7% for me at least to call him a better clutch player then someone like Jordan. |
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