For a GM that is so hated around here, Mitch has had a number of steals in the last few years .....
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:08 am    Post subject: For a GM that is so hated around here, Mitch has had a number of steals in the last few years .....

1- Chris Mihm.

Considered a backup stiff when in Boston. Came over to LA for a 1st rounder and Gary Payton. Right now, Mihm is putting forth production that exceeds big contract Centers such as Eric Dampier and Tyson Chandler.

Funny thing - If you recall summer of 2004 (I Do) most were bashing Mitch for not getting Tyson or Damp and belittling Mihm.

Tyson Chandler ........ 9/1/05 6 $64 million '11

Erick Dampier ......... 8/25/04 7 $73 million '11

Considering the contract and production - Would we still want Damp or Tyson over Mihm? Would we ever be able to trade those players once signing them to that kind of contract?

Steal #1 - Chris Mihm

2- Smush Parker

Considered NDBL/SPL talent and nothing more than a backup TO machine (basically another Tierre Brown)

Cost us? Nothing basically. A vet min K that has an option for next season too. Excellent price and great production considering that.

Mitch was ripped for not signing - Daniels and Watson. Compare Watson and Daniels K's and production to Smush Parker.

Earl Watson ........... 9/7/05 5 $29 million '10

Antonio Daniels ....... 8/2/05 5 $30 million '10

Steal #2 - Smush Parker

So basically what other teams are paying 60+ million for (Tyson, Eric D to get a starting Center) and 25-30 million for (Watson, Daniels to get a combo guard) the Lakers are getting for 4 million and less than 1 million.

Mitch has made some mistakes. He is NOT the best GM in the NBA. He still has to learn and needs to step up more against Buss etc.

BUT those that raped him for the non-signings in the last 2 summers and that he has no ability to make sharp "pick ups" better come in here and admit that Mitch stole 2 players under the radar that are giving us exactly what you guys wanted for 10 times the money.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:12 am    Post subject:

Funny... but after the Detroit and San Antonio games (which forced them to pay attention to something some of us have been noting all season), people were doing 180's on their pissing and moaning about Butler/Atkins for Kwame/Profit trade also.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:14 am    Post subject:

2 of 6 years.

Just want to say, West did that during certain summers, just in the draft alone; 1 season.

Getting Rick Fox for the MLE (which back then, was $2.25 million) and then Robert Horry for practically nothing (wasn't that within a year as well)?

West is a high standard. I expect the highest standards in regards to management with this organization. It is what has separated the Laker organization from the rest of the league.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:14 am    Post subject:

You know what Wolf, those deals fall in his lap because he's got an ideal job to begin with. I mean to be te GM of the LA Lakers, its pretty hard to mess up having the best players in the world want to play for you. Remember Shaq, Karl Malone or Gary Payton? What makes people frusterated is the fact that he manages to do only a satisfactory job in a position that should excel to begin with...
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Bergamotichek
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:15 am    Post subject:

And West had his real stinkers also... and went 10+ years w/o winning dick.

Last edited by Bergamotichek on Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:15 am    Post subject:

Chandler, is better then Mihm Wolf, physically.

He's also a better rebounder, but i'm not sure why he got that huge contract then again when Dunleavy & Foyle have huge contracts then i guess it's okay.
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:15 am    Post subject:

Just to compare production of the players that Mitch got compared to what his haters wanted instead

Mihm 10.2 ppg 6.3 rpg 1.23 bpg
Tyson 5.3 ppg 9.1 rpg 1.24 bpg
Damp 5.8 ppg 8.0 rpg 1.21 bpg

Parker 11.5 ppg 3.4 apg 1.75 spg
Daniels 8.0 ppg 3.0 apg 0.56 spg
Watson 7.4 ppg 3.5 apg 0.76 spg

So Mitch haters. What shall you say now about this? And Don't tell me that noone really wanted the other 2 guys on the above lists. I have an excellent memeory with these sort of things.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:17 am    Post subject:

JD wrote:
And West had his real stinkers also... and went 11 years w/o winning dick.


Did an excellent job of improving his team talent-wise quickly. Sudden retirement of a HOF player.

It's easier to be patient when talent is flooding into the team. I think fans are getting that this season, hence "dealing" with the season far better.

Yeah, West had draft busts, but within 6 years of "rebuilding", the Lakers became among the elite teams in the league from 1991 to 1997.

Not bad.

Did a hell of a job maintaining championship level basketball into the late 80s as well.
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Last edited by Mike@LG on Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:18 am    Post subject:

Oh... and Robert Horry wouldn't have been had for cheap, had he not pulled his infamous towel incident. Credit not West for that one... you can thank Horry for pissing away his value at the time.

West traded one bad apple for another bad apple (perceived at the time)
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:19 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
2 of 6 years.

Just want to say, West did that during certain summers, just in the draft alone; 1 season.

Getting Rick Fox for the MLE (which back then, was $2.25 million) and then Robert Horry for practically nothing (wasn't that within a year as well)?

West is a high standard. I expect the highest standards in regards to management with this organization. It is what has separated the Laker organization from the rest of the league.

Mike you are reasonable.

I think you would understand that the contracts Damp and Tyson got were not something the Lakers should have given.

West is a high standard and act to follow. No arguments there. Mitch still has a long way to go.

But the fact is, people bashed him for not getting enough "steals" or talent. Yet GM's are overpaying guys that are essentially giving less than what Mitch's aquisitions have.

I mean are we honestly going to say that Mihm and Parker are not steals? And that the other 4 guys on my list are worth it?

That's what I argued then. It's not in the Lakers interest to overpay guys that bring marginal roles. And that is exactly what those other 4 guys do and what Mihm+Parker do for a combined less than MLE price.

People think Mitch can't make moves because he has the inability to. I disagree. I think Mitch doesn't make 90% of the moves that are on his table because he is very financially responsible longterm. He does not invest longterm in role players like other GM"s do.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:19 am    Post subject:

My sig is meant as a joke but it fits this thread.

As for Mitch, he gets bashed unfairly because of the Shaq trade (which he had no control over because Shaq would only go to specific teams and other teams knew the that) and because he didn't get any big free agents this summer (Again he had no control because he wasn't allowed to sign anyone for more than two years).
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:20 am    Post subject:

JD, Lakers hanging over the shadow of the Bulls Dynasty i don't think no one could've win dick, the Rockets win there championships when Jordan wen't to his annual retirement.

Just like the Celtics in the 60's each team can't win dick if you have a team winning in 1 decade.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:21 am    Post subject:

JD wrote:
Oh... and Robert Horry wouldn't have been had for cheap, had he not pulled his infamous towel incident. Credit not West for that one... you can thank Horry for pissing away his value at the time.

West traded one bad apple for another bad apple (perceived at the time)


I recall that. Took advantage of it, didn't he?

I mean, that's how Dumars did it somewhat. Injury plagued career of Chauncey Billups, finally starts playing for decent run in Minny... Boston.. Now look.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:24 am    Post subject:

DaggerInTheHeart wrote:
Chandler, is better then Mihm Wolf, physically.

He's also a better rebounder, but i'm not sure why he got that huge contract then again when Dunleavy & Foyle have huge contracts then i guess it's okay.

I rather have Tyson over Mihm too, BUT not that at that current K. It is ridiculous that Tyson is going to be paid 10+ million for essentially the same production that Mihm brings.

And speaking of physical specimens - What is Kwame? Mitch got Kwame on a 2 year deal to bring that elite physical presence to this team.

But why Kwame and not Tyson? Because Kwame's K fit the risk. Kwame is not going to be a longterm liabilty. But Tyson with his K would have been. Same with Dampier. Same with Daniels and Watson.

You can't overpay what you can get with smart pickups. You just make the smart pickups instead.

That is the point of this thread. Lord knows Mitch needs to make better draft choices and be more vocal in his vision. But that's not what I ever argued. I have argued this specific players

People wanted Damp, Tyson, Daniels and Watson. They bashed Mitch non-stop for these specific 4 guys.

Yet the "dumb" GM with no "clue how to scout" has just gotten us 2 players that are giving us the same if not more than those aforementioned palyers at 1 tenth the longterm cost.

How is that possible?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:24 am    Post subject:

Mitch has had a few bright moments. Very few will deny that Wolf. Still you can't ignore the failures as well. The one EASY signing that I wanted over the summer that Mitch didn't even try to get was Steve Blake. Cheap, savy player that would have gave us a solid rotation at the PG spot.

As for the Kwame/Profit trade I'm still waiting to see how long Kwame's recent play lasts. He actually would do similiar in Washington as he's been doing here, start getting a few weeks of solid performances then fall back into no-man's land. I want to see some consistancy over the last 19(?) games from him. If he can keep it up I will start backing the guy.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:25 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
JD wrote:
Oh... and Robert Horry wouldn't have been had for cheap, had he not pulled his infamous towel incident. Credit not West for that one... you can thank Horry for pissing away his value at the time.

West traded one bad apple for another bad apple (perceived at the time)


I recall that. Took advantage of it, didn't he?

I mean, that's how Dumars did it somewhat. Injury plagued career of Chauncey Billups, finally starts playing for decent run in Minny... Boston.. Now look.


And like wolf pointed out... didn't Mitch do the same (took advantage) with Mihm, Smush and Kwame (my addition)?

If I recall the Horry move didn't pay off big for how many years? In fact, most were seriously disappointed that Del had bulked him up and forced him to be a PF.

You're judging West's moves well after the fact. Shouldn't we give Mitch the same luxury?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:27 am    Post subject:

Quote:
I think you would understand that the contracts Damp and Tyson got were not something the Lakers should have given.

West is a high standard and act to follow. No arguments there. Mitch still has a long way to go.

But the fact is, people bashed him for not getting enough "steals" or talent. Yet GM's are overpaying guys that are essentially giving less than what Mitch's aquisitions have.

I mean are we honestly going to say that Mihm and Parker are not steals? And that the other 4 guys on my list are worth it?

That's what I argued then. It's not in the Lakers interest to overpay guys that bring marginal roles. And that is exactly what those other 4 guys do and what Mihm+Parker do for a combined less than MLE price.

People think Mitch can't make moves because he has the inability to. I disagree. I think Mitch doesn't make 90% of the moves that are on his table because he is very financially responsible longterm. He does not invest longterm in role players like other GM"s do.


I understand the Lakers couldn't have given Damp and Tyson those contracts, they had to be done sign and trade to do so. Fans constantly want to bag on Tyson's production, yet he's been averaging 12rpg 2bpg consistently over the past 10-15 games. At least I understand why he got that contract.

You're looking at the guys who weren't worth getting. I can agree to that somewhat, but I still think players like Watson would've been a key addition to the Lakers at PG (Better Watson than Sasha). With Daniels I had my hesitations during the offseason considering his knee problems.

Like both you and I said, West set a high standard and Kupchak has a long way to get there. If Kupchak even had drafted 2 years better than he had before (Say, Boozer and Josh Howard) and we wouldn't be fighting for 8th place right now. And, unlike West, Kupchak has the luxury of already having a franchise player. West lost his in Magic, Scott getting traded, Cappy retiring, and Worthy retiring.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:27 am    Post subject:

this thread is a joke.

with mitch on board, our franchise went from a dynasty (champion with deep bench) to lottery, enough said.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:27 am    Post subject:

jim155 wrote:
this thread is a joke.

with mitch on board, our franchise went from a dynasty (champion with deep bench) to lottery, enough said.


Your parrot response is the joke.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:28 am    Post subject:

thumpinghead wrote:
You know what Wolf, those deals fall in his lap because he's got an ideal job to begin with. I mean to be te GM of the LA Lakers, its pretty hard to mess up having the best players in the world want to play for you. Remember Shaq, Karl Malone or Gary Payton? What makes people frusterated is the fact that he manages to do only a satisfactory job in a position that should excel to begin with...

Did you see me mention Gary and Karl?

Guess what?

Chris Mihm and Smush Parker DID NOT fall into his lap. He actually aquired them himself through GM duties.

And if you think not making bad moves isn't part of a GM's duty - then you don't know how things are run.

How many times have people said Mitch can't make small pickups? That all his stuff falls into his lap.

How did Chris Mihm + Smush Parker (Combined less than the MLE) fall into his lap?

Let me guess. It wasn't Mitch that got them. It was someone else that we don't know of. Only the bad moves can be made by Mitch and the good one's are always someone else's doing. :roll:
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:29 am    Post subject:

Mitch's biggest failures have been his drafts. Just abysmal...
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:33 am    Post subject:

Once again, how can anyone say Jerry West didn't win Jack squat when no one else did in the 90's besides the Rockets and that time Jordan was not playing?

Are we forgetting who Jerry West was? or are we beginning to hate a person who helped us get Kobe and made sure we landed Shaq through Free Agency in 96?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:34 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
I think you would understand that the contracts Damp and Tyson got were not something the Lakers should have given.

West is a high standard and act to follow. No arguments there. Mitch still has a long way to go.

But the fact is, people bashed him for not getting enough "steals" or talent. Yet GM's are overpaying guys that are essentially giving less than what Mitch's aquisitions have.

I mean are we honestly going to say that Mihm and Parker are not steals? And that the other 4 guys on my list are worth it?

That's what I argued then. It's not in the Lakers interest to overpay guys that bring marginal roles. And that is exactly what those other 4 guys do and what Mihm+Parker do for a combined less than MLE price.

People think Mitch can't make moves because he has the inability to. I disagree. I think Mitch doesn't make 90% of the moves that are on his table because he is very financially responsible longterm. He does not invest longterm in role players like other GM"s do.


I understand the Lakers couldn't have given Damp and Tyson those contracts, they had to be done sign and trade to do so. Fans constantly want to bag on Tyson's production, yet he's been averaging 12rpg 2bpg consistently over the past 10-15 games. At least I understand why he got that contract.

You're looking at the guys who weren't worth getting. I can agree to that somewhat, but I still think players like Watson would've been a key addition to the Lakers at PG (Better Watson than Sasha). With Daniels I had my hesitations during the offseason considering his knee problems.

Like both you and I said, West set a high standard and Kupchak has a long way to get there. If Kupchak even had drafted 2 years better than he had before (Say, Boozer and Josh Howard) and we wouldn't be fighting for 8th place right now. And, unlike West, Kupchak has the luxury of already having a franchise player. West lost his in Magic, Scott getting traded, Cappy retiring, and Worthy retiring.

I see your point. Mitch certainly hasn't done enough.

But you are looking at West after 10+ years. Yes he got NVE and Eddie - But it's a lot easier to draft/steal guards than it is to steal/draft big's. And it wasn't until 1996 (6-7 years after Magic) that he actually got the core together was going to win it all.

And at the same time, we must see that times have changed. People that would have been late picks then would be going lottery now. Teams draft potential much more and the college game has not impacted the draft the way it used to (look at where seniors or guys with heavy college experience get drafted now as opposed to in the past)

On Tyson - I agree on having him over Mihm. I do not agree with paying a guy 60+ million without him actually proving himself as a 12 reb, 2+ blk guy. If he can do that over the course of a season, then yeah - pay him. But he hasn't done that as of yet.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:35 am    Post subject:

Quote:
If I recall the Horry move didn't pay off big for how many years? In fact, most were seriously disappointed that Del had bulked him up and forced him to be a PF.

You're judging West's moves well after the fact. Shouldn't we give Mitch the same luxury?


It's not that I don't disagree Mihm was a steal. Mitch would've robbed the Celtics if Payton wasn't such a boy and Banks showed up too.

Like you know, what kills me about the team is the draft. The only one that most of the mods were excited about were with the last one, for obvious reasons. Athletic players. Play both ends of the floor.

I recall West's best "game" after 1990. Vlade. Elden. Van Exel. Jones. Peeler. Lynch. Patterson. Almost every year there was at least 1 quality role player/starter.

No one is saying a thing about Mark Madsen. Kareem Rush. D.G. is best off the pine. Sasha. The guys listed during West's time had impact within 2-3 years. Can't say the same about Kupchak's picks.

Even I admit, hesitation about Kwame. I knew he had the athletic tools to be a hell of a defender, but inconsistency on both ends of the floor were well documented in his career in Washington, especially offensively. I'm not surprised that is the one thing that bugs most Laker fans either, especially for the kind of talent, athletic ability, and size. But, even when I didn't like the trade then, I still admitted that hey, it slides Odom to SF, his natural position, puts Odom in a position to intitate, and finally puts a guy who can body up in the post on defense.

I had been saying the same thing all last season with Odom and Butler. It's obvious why Odom was kept.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:37 am    Post subject:

thumpinghead wrote:
You know what Wolf, those deals fall in his lap because he's got an ideal job to begin with. I mean to be te GM of the LA Lakers, its pretty hard to mess up having the best players in the world want to play for you. Remember Shaq, Karl Malone or Gary Payton? What makes people frusterated is the fact that he manages to do only a satisfactory job in a position that should excel to begin with...


Good point, but you also have to concede that the other teams' GM's don't want to do the Lakers any favors. I bet Danny Ainge thought he was really stealing candy from a baby (which he especially wasn't with the original deal before Payton almost destroyed it).
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