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DicksHutnick
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Joined: 09 Sep 2005
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 Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| CabinCreek44 wrote: | | Phil is a great strategist, but the man has no feel for what is transpiring during the game right in front of his own eyes. |
He has a great in-game feel -- no coach wins nine rings without one -- and his decision to take Kobe out last night was right, I'm sorry. The guy HAS to rest at some point -- he'd only three minutes of rest the entire game up until that point. The finger needs to be pointed at the five Lakers who were out there and had several chances to score and bring the game even closer. |
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CabinCreek44
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:24 am Post subject: |
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If you can look at Phil's substitution patterns and say he has a great in-game feel, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point.
Of course Kobe needs rest, but sometimes when a player is on a roll and dominating a game, you kind of leave him out there and let him keep doing it, especially in a huge game that you need to win.
I disagree with a lot of what Walton says, but not the April 20 comment. We still have some winning to do if we are to be still playing beyond that point. Phil cannot afford to take anything for granted at this point. If that means Kobe has to log heavy minutes to get us there, so be it. |
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DicksHutnick
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| CabinCreek44 wrote: | | If you can look at Phil's substitution patterns and say he has a great in-game feel, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point. |
His big lineup was the only reason the Lakers even got to overtime in Denver. He has subtle tricks to sneak players a few minutes of extra rest, has figured out how to rest Lamar and Kobe at the same time and not have the team collapse (all that often) and generally puts players in a position to succeed. Especially good at making defensive adjustment like assigning Devean George to shadow a scoring two or three or have Odom chase around a big small forward that's used to a big size advantage.
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Of course Kobe needs rest, but sometimes when a player is on a roll and dominating a game, you kind of leave him out there and let him keep doing it, especially in a huge game that you need to win. |
Yeah but if he didn't come out then there's no way he goes out the rest of the game. It simply can't happen. No matter how bad Phil's rotations may seem to some people right now, if he were to continually allow Kobe to play 45+ minutes it would be a lot worse. |
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CabinCreek44
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:01 am Post subject: |
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Didn't see much of the Denver game, so I'll take you word for it there.
I'm not advocating Phil continuously playing Kobe 45+ minutes a game, and certainly not over the course of a season. Definitely not trying to say that at all.
But we're in crunch time now. Every game from here on in is critical. If Kobe's hot in the course of a game right now, leave him out there. Go for the kill. Maybe we get up double digits instead of behind double digits and then he can sit for a few minutes. |
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LA_Lakers_Rule
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Joined: 23 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:19 am Post subject: |
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To those who say Kobe CANNOT player 48 minutes a game.
Yes not every game, but it is clear that as a 27 year old extremely well conditioned athlete in his prime he is certainly cabable to do that on occasion.
Phil needs to pick his spots better to rest Kobe. Sometimes the beginning of a fourth quarter can be critical and a little more flexability in the rotation would help.
In critical games against a team that we need to win to build our confidence if nothing more Kobe should play more minutes.
In games against lower level teams with losing records then Phil should certainly rest Kobe.
So it is a matter of being flexible, which is not what Phil seems to be good at. Phil seems to want to stay with the same routine regardless of the situation.
I think this is wrong thinking and that he should instead play our franchise player according to the situation rather than staying with the same routine night in and night out.
Winning games against elite teams is a huge confidence booster and I'm sure Phil knows this so why not rest Kobe when we can afford to rest him.
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Good judgment comes from experience and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. - Will Rogers ...  |
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Sonicc64
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Location: Delaware
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:28 am Post subject: |
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Phil screwed us, case closed....
he rested Kobe when he didn't need the rest, he made sure we played with NO interior presence, Kwame and Bynum should have got way more playing time than they did. He should have instructed Odom to play in the Post more... I mean Marion is the other All-Star on the Suns team and he was a non-factor until the last 5 minutes of the game. and we still lost. We don't have one player to get into another teams head, and yet every team has a player or players that can harass Kobe. we don't even have an enforcer  |
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dcarter4kobe
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| The only time Kobe should rest is a couple mins left in the 1st and in the first parts of the 2nd |
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OdomX2
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| JerryWest_44 wrote: | | hisairness#8 wrote: | | This is why Kobe should be MVP and Nash should be second Nash sits out most of the 4th and the suns still go on a run. Take Kobe out and all hell breaks lose for the Lakers. The media claims that the Suns are not as good as they were last year Nash is good but he's not that good he has good role players that are good at what they do in the system hell Shawn Marion is a freakin all star. What does KOBE have Lamar Odom. Give Kobe his due for leading THIS team to the playoffs |
Another view is that Nash has trained his team to play as a team even without him on the floor whereas the Lakers are lost because Kobe's individual play has skewed the Laker's team game when playing without him. |
"Nash trained his team?" Good grief.  |
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OdomX2
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| Sonicc64 wrote: | Phil screwed us, case closed....
he rested Kobe when he didn't need the rest, he made sure we played with NO interior presence, Kwame and Bynum should have got way more playing time than they did. He should have instructed Odom to play in the Post more... I mean Marion is the other All-Star on the Suns team and he was a non-factor until the last 5 minutes of the game. and we still lost. We don't have one player to get into another teams head, and yet every team has a player or players that can harass Kobe. we don't even have an enforcer |
The hilarious thing is that Phil was also complaining about the LONG TNT timeouts. Why rest a plyer that plays 40 plus minutes regularly and has the added benefit of longer timeouts? Answer, the Zen Master decided to let the scrubs drive the ship while Kobe watched. Result? loss. |
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Sonicc64
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:48 am Post subject: |
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| Phil is coaching just like Larry Brown does... they are willing to rack up losses just as long as the team plays THEIR way, and only their way. |
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siegbach
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Joined: 26 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:57 am Post subject: |
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its funny how some of the members on the forum couldn't wait til phil resigned with the lakers this past summer.now i see some of theses same members posting about how he sucks at rotating players this year and that we would have 50 wins if he would do a better job of rotating players.just remember if we didn't have phil this year we probably wouldn't have but around 30 to 35 wins right now.i almost forgot to mention phil has 9 championship rings,3 with the lakers in case some of you have forgot.phil is one of the greatest coach's of all time and didn't win those championships by accident.he had great players,but he still had to coach them.point is phil knows what he's doing,that is why he is the coach and everybody else on this forum isn't.
Last edited by siegbach on Sat Apr 08, 2006 8:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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topramen78
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| DicksHutnick wrote: | | mirak wrote: | | Why not let Kobe play a couple of more minutes, see if maybe the Lakers could take the lead, before resting him? |
What if they don't take the lead and fall behind with Kobe still out there? Then the Lakers have to play him for the rest of the game. He already plays too many minutes. The team shouldn't fall apart every time Kobe goes out. And they usually don't, but tonight... |
With this logic, why would you ever play Kobe? lol |
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Gimme_the_rock
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Location: Looking outta the window, watching the asphalt grow ...
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| laker4life wrote: |
It is our GM responsibilities to put together a team to compete for the whole season.
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Yes.
But, had Laron Profit not gotten injured, things wouldn't be as dire as they are now. |
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Sage_10
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Joined: 24 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:27 am Post subject: Re: Bill Walton said it best... |
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| topramen78 wrote: | | "Why is Kobe on the bench to start the 4th quarter? The man doesn't need rest ... they can rest in July. If he's on the bench too long, he might get his rest April 20th." |
Screw Bill Walton. He also said "Thank you Steve Nash for showing us the true meaning of basketball where it's about the team triumphs over the individual".
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"You Must Be Willing To Give Up That Which Can Be Lost In Order To Gain That Which Cannot Be Lost." - FORTUNE COOKIE |
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The Dagger
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| OdomX2 wrote: | | JerryWest_44 wrote: | | hisairness#8 wrote: | | This is why Kobe should be MVP and Nash should be second Nash sits out most of the 4th and the suns still go on a run. Take Kobe out and all hell breaks lose for the Lakers. The media claims that the Suns are not as good as they were last year Nash is good but he's not that good he has good role players that are good at what they do in the system hell Shawn Marion is a freakin all star. What does KOBE have Lamar Odom. Give Kobe his due for leading THIS team to the playoffs |
Another view is that Nash has trained his team to play as a team even without him on the floor whereas the Lakers are lost because Kobe's individual play has skewed the Laker's team game when playing without him. |
"Nash trained his team?" Good grief. |
The Nash Nut hugging is getting out of control these days.
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The great Laker Center Tradition continues.....Mikan, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Gasol, AD....Gasol. |
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THE_SHOES
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
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Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| CabinCreek44 wrote: | Didn't see much of the Denver game, so I'll take you word for it there.
I'm not advocating Phil continuously playing Kobe 45+ minutes a game, and certainly not over the course of a season. Definitely not trying to say that at all.
But we're in crunch time now. Every game from here on in is critical. If Kobe's hot in the course of a game right now, leave him out there. Go for the kill. Maybe we get up double digits instead of behind double digits and then he can sit for a few minutes. |
That's the way I saw it myself. The Lakers were losing that game with Kobe and, a little more without him. Jackson had no choice. You can't run Bryant nonstop the whole game. Yeah, he would give it a shot, but it can't be healthy for him.
Something else to remember, and that Jax may have been pondering. Recently we have seen Bryant sit, and the troops rally back without him. Could be that Jax was rolling the dice hoping for that possibility to reoccur...
I still think the Lakers can handle the Suns if they are fresh. Not to fresh! They forget how to play on 3 days of rest or more, but you give the Lakers a two day rest, and I'm positive they can take that team. The Lakers ran out of steam after coming back twice in that game from large deficits. After going overtime with Denver the night before, and hoping a plane to Phoenix I gotta believe that has to take it's toll...
Next Sunday the Lakers finally get to play the Suns in a better setting. Lets see what happens then...
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"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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lakers0505
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: Bill Walton said it best... |
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| topramen78 wrote: | | "Why is Kobe on the bench to start the 4th quarter? The man doesn't need rest ... they can rest in July. If he's on the bench too long, he might get his rest April 20th." |
 , i heard it too, agreed, then wondered what the F, phil was doing...and i have never openly critizied phil but that was boneheaded too do, especially with the team surging and kobe on fire. |
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Freakout
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryWest_44 wrote: | | hisairness#8 wrote: | | This is why Kobe should be MVP and Nash should be second Nash sits out most of the 4th and the suns still go on a run. Take Kobe out and all hell breaks lose for the Lakers. The media claims that the Suns are not as good as they were last year Nash is good but he's not that good he has good role players that are good at what they do in the system hell Shawn Marion is a freakin all star. What does KOBE have Lamar Odom. Give Kobe his due for leading THIS team to the playoffs |
Another view is that Nash has trained his team to play as a team even without him on the floor whereas the Lakers are lost because Kobe's individual play has skewed the Laker's team game when playing without him. |
Thats one stupid view. |
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PROUDLAKERFAN
Starting Rotation
Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 569
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Kobe should start the fourth quarter, there is no reason for him to be on the bench, period...Phil must remember that this is not the Lakers he once coached five years ago, the Lakers depend on No. 8, we all know that Odom is not the leader everybody want him to be. |
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methticaL
Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 492
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| hisairness#8 wrote: | | This is why Kobe should be MVP and Nash should be second Nash sits out most of the 4th and the suns still go on a run. Take Kobe out and all hell breaks lose for the Lakers. The media claims that the Suns are not as good as they were last year Nash is good but he's not that good he has good role players that are good at what they do in the system hell Shawn Marion is a freakin all star. What does KOBE have Lamar Odom. Give Kobe his due for leading THIS team to the playoffs |
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CabinCreek44
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Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 3856
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| THE_SHOES wrote: | | CabinCreek44 wrote: | Didn't see much of the Denver game, so I'll take you word for it there.
I'm not advocating Phil continuously playing Kobe 45+ minutes a game, and certainly not over the course of a season. Definitely not trying to say that at all.
But we're in crunch time now. Every game from here on in is critical. If Kobe's hot in the course of a game right now, leave him out there. Go for the kill. Maybe we get up double digits instead of behind double digits and then he can sit for a few minutes. |
That's the way I saw it myself. The Lakers were losing that game with Kobe and, a little more without him. Jackson had no choice. You can't run Bryant nonstop the whole game. Yeah, he would give it a shot, but it can't be healthy for him.
Something else to remember, and that Jax may have been pondering. Recently we have seen Bryant sit, and the troops rally back without him. Could be that Jax was rolling the dice hoping for that possibility to reoccur...
I still think the Lakers can handle the Suns if they are fresh. Not to fresh! They forget how to play on 3 days of rest or more, but you give the Lakers a two day rest, and I'm positive they can take that team. The Lakers ran out of steam after coming back twice in that game from large deficits. After going overtime with Denver the night before, and hoping a plane to Phoenix I gotta believe that has to take it's toll...
Next Sunday the Lakers finally get to play the Suns in a better setting. Lets see what happens then... |
If we meet and take the Suns in the playoffs, that will undoubtedly be one of Phil Jackson's finest hours as a coach because there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever in the last two years that even begins to suggest that we can hang with that team.
But here's hoping. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| topramen78 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Why rest Kobe at all? No reason he shouldn't play every minute of every game, is there? |
You dumb so I won't refer to your point directly....
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Yeah, I am dumb and Phil is dumb. Glad to hear your input, let me guess how many NBA games you have coached, probably none, right? But if you know more than Phil, I am sure they will be knocking on your door anytime soon. You have a great idea. Let's play Kobe 48 or more the rest of the season to ensure that 7th seed. Who cares if he has little to offer in the playoffs as a result? Who cares that his jumpers were falling short in the 3rd last night, an obvious indication that he was tired?
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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laker4life
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| Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| Gimme_the_rock wrote: | | laker4life wrote: |
It is our GM responsibilities to put together a team to compete for the whole season.
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Yes.
But, had Laron Profit not gotten injured, things wouldn't be as dire as they are now. |
Profit would help. But Kupcakes has the responsibilities to get quality back up players. We have Mckie and Sasha.
They are not qualified back up. |
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topramen78
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| Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | topramen78 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Why rest Kobe at all? No reason he shouldn't play every minute of every game, is there? |
You dumb so I won't refer to your point directly....
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Yeah, I am dumb and Phil is dumb. Glad to hear your input, let me guess how many NBA games you have coached, probably none, right? But if you know more than Phil, I am sure they will be knocking on your door anytime soon. You have a great idea. Let's play Kobe 48 or more the rest of the season to ensure that 7th seed. Who cares if he has little to offer in the playoffs as a result? Who cares that his jumpers were falling short in the 3rd last night, an obvious indication that he was tired? |
Well, if I can't critique a player's shot or a coach's move since I've never coached an NBA team, which admittedly I haven't, then no one in this forum should be posting unless I'm the only non-NBA coach in here.
So that was a bit of a dumb retort.
I never said play Kobe 48 mins/game. No one in here did. So, I don't know where you got the idea that playing him 48 mins/game was MY idea. Can you show me where I said that or is that yet another dumb comment?
I simply said that there are certain situations where Kobe should definitely play, even at the risk of being a lil tired. We had rallied back to within a single point. I mean, if that rally had come with 3 mins left to play and Kobe had played 45 mins up to that point, I hope you wouldn't advocate that he rest then.
What if he had played 47 mins, was shooting 58% from the field, and we were down by 1. Would you pull him then? Or would you play him?
What if he had played 25 mins, was shooting 58% from the field, and we were up by 25, would you pull him then?
There are situations in which you decide to put your best player on the floor. It's more than likely that I'm less qualified than Phil when it comes to decisions like that. And it's more than likely you too are less than qualified.
Bill Walton may also be less qualified than Phil, but he's more qualified than you or I. So if you're going to use the "qualification" argument as you did, then you must then, agree with Bill Walton, right? If not, then I ask, have YOU ever been on an NBA roster and played at the NBA level under NBA conditions? |
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THE_SHOES
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Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 1:51 am Post subject: |
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| laker4life wrote: | | Gimme_the_rock wrote: | | laker4life wrote: |
It is our GM responsibilities to put together a team to compete for the whole season.
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Yes.
But, had Laron Profit not gotten injured, things wouldn't be as dire as they are now. |
Profit would help. But Kupchak has the responsibilities to get quality back up players. We have Mckie and Sasha.
They are not qualified back up. |
Sasha was a draft pick so, he was never picked up as support as you put it in the first place. Mckie is a proven backup. His problem is he can't stay on the floor. You can Blame Mitch for that, however who cold possibly predict that a player would sustain a season ending injury?
To much blame..That is not Mitch's fault...
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"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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