LAKERS -at- SUNS -- 4/23 -- Thoughts and :-(( ratings
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magic_bryant
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:11 am    Post subject:

And as always:

Thanks and good stuff DB!!!
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8750
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:31 am    Post subject:

thanks, DB...
the operation was successfull, the patient is dead... i don't know if that was the right moment to settle a team work and an inside plan... we played as a team, and that's definitely good... that's the way a team grows up... but the problem is that you can't be a reliable team if you have to depend on smush and cook... or if you have to give the ball to kwame, who now is a very good role player and will become even better, but he still hasn't good hands and he's not aggressive at all... so in order to create a team strategy, we lose kobe's rhythm... i haven't nine rings on my hands, but i think that if so far when kobe scores 40 we trend to win, while when he scores under 30 we trend to lose, i don't feel all this need to change strategy... we forced the suns to play our game, but so we let them have 35 ft (scoring 32) while usually they never go on the ft line... as i said at the beginning, the operation was successfull, the patient is dead... so far...
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:13 am    Post subject:

LO was balling. Looked damn good against the Matrix. Where art thou THE SHOES?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:33 am    Post subject:

sean2023 wrote:
Kobe's game was so strange...I never got a sense that he put his stamp on it...be it offensively or defensively....and they won't be winning anything if he doesn't play like the superstar he is...in some form or another.

Great games by Luke and LO.



Pretty much was I was thinking as well. When Kobe's shot wasn't working, I had hoped that they'd sic Kobe on Nash in the fourth quarter.


Last edited by angrypuppy on Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:34 am    Post subject:

Texas_Pete wrote:
LO was balling. Looked damn good against the Matrix. Where art thou THE SHOES?

Shoes no longer needs to worry about Odom. He may have to Kobe Bryant.

Reading the boards - too many people are knocking Kobe. I'm far from a Kobe first fan, but I think it's unfair to expect him to be spectacular every time in a situation like that. Kobe hasn't been in that sort of role since - well - Shaq days.

It's as if all season the Lakers had played one way and the playoffs they have chosen to play another. That is fine - because the way they played in the regular season was not good enough to even be competitive with the Suns. Atleast yesterday - the Lakers were up in the 4th (at one point) and had an oppurtunity to win game 1. Things will be much better for Kobe as the series wears on IMO.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:40 am    Post subject:

Kobe can & will improve next game. I would be surprised to see a triple double. If we get the same effort from everyone else we win!
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:18 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Texas_Pete wrote:
LO was balling. Looked damn good against the Matrix. Where art thou THE SHOES?

Shoes no longer needs to worry about Odom. He may have to Kobe Bryant.

Reading the boards - too many people are knocking Kobe. I'm far from a Kobe first fan, but I think it's unfair to expect him to be spectacular every time in a situation like that. Kobe hasn't been in that sort of role since - well - Shaq days.

It's as if all season the Lakers had played one way and the playoffs they have chosen to play another. That is fine - because the way they played in the regular season was not good enough to even be competitive with the Suns. Atleast yesterday - the Lakers were up in the 4th (at one point) and had an oppurtunity to win game 1. Things will be much better for Kobe as the series wears on IMO.


I really don't mean to knock Kobe. I'm just a bit nervous that his passive nature in game 1 was ... call it a subconscious message. If Kobe does not believe in Phil's gameplan against the Suns, we may never see the real Kobe in this series. I'm not suggesting he would do anything on purpose. Nobody performs at their best if they don't wholeheartedly believe in what they are doing.

Like I said before, I am normally an eternal optimist. But I just got a bad feeling watching that game. My basketball intellect, however, tells me that Phil knows what he is doing and Wednesday night will see a whole different Kobe and a whole different result.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:32 am    Post subject:

This game really hurt not just because Kobe didn't have his A game but because the rest of the team DID have their A game. I'm sure Kobe will pick it up but I'm not so sure Luke Walton will have 19 points on Wednesday.

They've got to milk Odom dry. Nobody on the Suns' squad can handle him.
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magic_bryant
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:37 am    Post subject:

Phil didn't want Kobe being aggressive. He was WILLING and READY to lose this game in order to get the others going.
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:40 am    Post subject:

You guys don't get it.

Why was Lamar Odom knocked so much this season? It is NOT easy to play in the Triangle when you aren't the first option. If Phil told Kobe to be the team's 1st option and dominate the game - Kobe would do it with ease.

The part where ALL (STAR) players struggle with in the Triangle is when it's an equal oppurtunity offense. They have to be involved but just not by scoring. Yesterday - Odom and Kwame were just as much an option as Bryant was during the game. Kobe opened up the game for his teammates and raised their confidence. How? By just allowing them to be aggressive and getting the ball in the post. He was the reason the offense ran well, because like in most games he's instructing them where to set up the O. The difference was that he didn't dominate it himself like he's been doing most of the season.

Now, while Kobe clearly struggled to turn it on in the 4th - and had he been hot we probably win. But that's not reason enough to put this one on him. It is excessively hard for a volume shooter to just turn it on, and while Bryant can do it - he hasn't had to do this since the Shaq days.

I read this crap BS article by Celzic about how Kobe put the Lakers in a hole. It just goes to show you, that Kobe is screwed no matter what he does with some. I mean does anyone understand the way the Triangle works? It's an equal oppurtunity offense. Lebron or Nash wouldn't average 10 assists in this offense. More like 6-7. The Triangle has never been about one player having the 10 assists. It's about 5 players all playing together like an orchestra.

Yesterday, Kobe sent a clear message to his teammates and the Suns. This is not the Kobe Bryants. These are the LOS ANGELES LAKERS.

If you can't see that and just want to pile on Kobe - Well I'm sorry I just won't do that. Kobe played the right way. He played like a superstar that wants to win a championship - why? Because he trusted his system, coach and teammates. His shot was off and he still has to adjust to a different role, but knowing Kobe - it will not take him long to adjust.

"One shot and I'm hot"

Damn straight, Kobe. Game 2 - beware. Bryant will make many eat words ....


Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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magic_bryant
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:54 am    Post subject:

Well said Wolf. That's what is being overlooked here.

Kobe took a step back, the way you'd want your superstar to do, if it meant a run at a title. Kobe could come out and fire up 55+ PPG for the series and even win the series. But they wouldn't get any further with that kind of b-ball.

Phil knows that. Kobe knows that. You and I know that. Apparently not everyone knows that.

Kobe and Phil are ready to make a run at this thing here and now. They're not playing for next year. They go into each season with their eyes on the prize...the Larry O'Brien trophy. This isn't Sacramento and that isn't Adelman and Webber at the helm. These are the Lakers and that's Phil and Kobe. Titles are ALL that matters.

Will they win the title? Most likely not. But you try telling them that.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:25 am    Post subject:

Wow ...

You've got me convinced Wolf

Many other pundits are also saying that this was a gameplan developed by BOTH Kobe and Phil to get everyone else's confidence up and ready for a war. OK ... I take back my fears.

Wednesday can't get here fast enough!!!






PS: May the basketball gods forgive me for having any doubts at all
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8750
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:37 am    Post subject:

same old story... trust your teammates is a very good thing, and kobe winning by himself can't always be an option... trusting your teammates is beginning to work with lamar, and sometimes with luke and kwame... but you can't have "equal opportunities" with smush, cook, sasha or jimmy jackson... we played very well as a team, but then these players always miss some open shots and have bad defensive rotations... and i'm not so sure that you can call good a strategy that at the end gets a bad result...
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:40 am    Post subject:

sean: always luv your input and contra-points when we do disagree

this game & possibly series reminds me so much of when the suns played the spurs last year.

it was the spurs that dictated tempo.

IMHO it's the course of familiarity and the post-season game, i.e. half court execution, where possessions are so valuable and the downsides of turnovers are magnified.

I remember shawn marion having less than a stellar series against the spurs, it's really a size issue. as the series wore on, he had one or two good games, however, his legs were worn. marion has been the iron horse the past two seasons, averaging 81 games these past two years. in fact from 2000-2006, marion has AVERAGED 80 games per year. incredible. however, I expect his legs to be worn; this is something that I had noticed last year. marion's averages also is close to 3 ppg lower in the post season (career wise); I do expect him to underperform, since the lakers do indeed seem to have a sense of dictating tempo.

the lakers hounded nash better than previously. steve's thigh is hurting and he's just awesome, trying to play through it. d'antoni's trying to give him the rest, and so far, it's been relatively successful. however, expect nash to be hounded by mckie, sasha, smush and a few others. nash's lessened effectiveness is by design. the lakers have spent hours viewing film, to break down his tendencies.

james jones, who I'd love having, is still new to the game. indy was crazy to give up this gem. however, he's new to the sun's scheme. he scored 4 points; but his career (3 year averages) is 6.9. and this is the playoffs. he's now going to be (mis)matched against either LO or kobe. either way, he's giving up his O to play D.

as for boris diaw's game 38% shooting. well, I've chronicled the scenario previously (see quotes below). in a nutshell, give a underweighted PF/C space and they can use their speed. however, bang them physically, crowd 'em, then they are out of their comfort zone.

as for eddie house, he was not given the free looks and space, however, I look at house as the "potential x-factor game buster," especially since he's got the most life in his legs.



sean2023 wrote:
Jeremy - Good points. I think there is a lot to be proud of regarding how the Lakers played Game 1.

I do disagree w/ the suggestion that Phoenix played as well as they can. Tim Thomas certainly played as well as he can play...but some of their players can be even more dangerous.

Nash himself was held to 42% shooting...this is a guy that shoots over 50% on the season. So while he may not get to the line 8 times in Game 2, he might go 9/18 instead of 5/12.

Diaw shoots it at 53% for the season...he shot 38% today.

Marion averages 22/12...LA held him to 19/7.

Bell gets 15 on the season...nearly 3 threes a game...today he had 8 points...and shot 1/7.

James Jones gets 9 a game...today he had 4.

House averages 10 a game, today he had 4 too.

Aside from Tim Thomas, no Sun really played above his head...many played below their season averages - So, there is still room for some of these guys to hit LA w/ things they didn't get hit w/ in Game 1 to offset the expected decrease in free throw attempts.

That said, the Suns escaped Game 1 w/ out dealing w/ the sort of firepower they'd usually have to defend against in a typical Kobe Bryant performance.

These teams haven't seen all eachothers faces quite yet. It'll take another couple games. Hopefully by then, LA has a win or two to show for it..............



jeremysnow wrote:

Can someone please post the Lakers-Suns scouting report on ESPN Insider?
Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:27 am
boris diaw vs. kwame

results in boris diaw with the ADVANTAGE AT CENTER????

I love the play of diaw, but as a center???

diaw's a stretch at pf (215#; 6'7").

kwame has the body and skills to physically challenge: ben wallace, tim duncan, shaq, eddy curry............

don't these "insiders" understand simple physics?

don't they understand that if you get a heavyweight boxer fighting a flyweight, 99 out of 100 times, given equal ability, the heavyweight wins?

yeah, just like a few fans, several years back, wanting malik rose, in lieu of shaq (as a smallish center)



jeremysnow wrote:

Can someone please post the Lakers-Suns scouting report on ESPN Insider?
Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:05 am


Mike@LG wrote:
^The physics applies if the tempo is half-court set.

When it's fast-break play, well, speed wins.



encina1 wrote:
No, don't you get it? Kwame was able to handle Tim Duncan, Shaq, and KG, but against Boris Freakin' Diaw he will struggle.

I thought the same thing about the coaches. How in hell do you say a coach who has done nothing matches up evenly with a coach with 9 championship rings? Next you will say Scott Skiles has the advantage over Pat Riley?



I get it don't you?

post season = the following:

Quote:

1. half court game; slowed tempo
2. familiarity


my prediction for suns-lakers: slowed tempo. I'm also confident that the lakers will be able to control tempo, better than what most experts expect.


btw mike: physics also applies to one's back hurting having to box out a guy, over 50# heavier than you.

also similar to a volleyball game, the athletic smaller jumpers can sometimes pull the three game upset, however, in a five gamer, give me the texas/ucla height; short high jumping athletic net players (akin to the bball front court players) get tired in the course of a game and series where familiarity limits surprises. hard to jump when you are physically hurting, fatigue and having bigger athletic guys surrounding you.

I think that the suns will not be able to run their high paced offense as much as they'd like to. hey remember, their biggest guy is pat burke; kurt thomas out with a stress fracture. athletic jumper types do get worn by physical athletic types.

also consider this, both JJ & mckie are underrated assets. I have been one of the biggest supporter of acquiring both jackson & mckie.

remember also, the lakers are also coming back healthy with both jim jackson & aaron mckie. the suns are physically hurting (being a smaller, finesse team).

mckie will be an underrated asset. he gets the rebounds, plays excellent D. mckie is also a solid ball handler, with a career 1.34 t/o per game (in comparison, kobe is 2.87 and LO: 3.07).

so, it won't simply be smush vs. the suns guards; factor mckie in. mckie is smart and is a former winner of the 6th man of the year award. and physically mckie is good to go.

as for jim jackson, JJ might not score 8 ppg, however, he can still play D and will get the rebounds. don't be surprised if JJ makes a few key shots. JJ is also familiar with the suns' offensive sets.


lakers might not win it, however, it will not be an easy series for the suns.

believe me, the suns, if they get past the lakers, will feel the pain of playing LA (especially the suns front line).
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rchanou
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:46 am    Post subject:

I was happy with the gameplan of involving teammates. True it is hard for Kobe to find that balance the gameplan still worked. Kobe attacking the rim and being playmaker, switching it up with Odom, would really throw the Suns off-balance. Still glad that Kobe got others involved and hopefully the other starters now have confidence that they can take the series. The team really needs to play defense for 4 quarters, the first quarter was just abyssmal. Also, I am sick of watching all those screens by the Suns, I swear half of them are just moving picks. We just need to take the next game and we have home-court advantage. The bench was terrible and Cook is way too slow footed to play against the suns.
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re4ee
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:23 am    Post subject:

NY_LakerFan wrote:
Wow ...

You've got me convinced Wolf

Many other pundits are also saying that this was a gameplan developed by BOTH Kobe and Phil to get everyone else's confidence up and ready for a war. OK ... I take back my fears.

Wednesday can't get here fast enough!!!






PS: May the basketball gods forgive me for having any doubts at all
Well, Kevin Ding "gets it": Jackson, Bryant on the same page
Quote:
This was the season when Phil Jackson, in his renowned reach-out tradition to his players, gave Kobe Bryant a book and Bryant actually read it.

"It was really interesting," Bryant said. "I enjoyed it."

Bryant called "Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking" the best book Jackson has given him, which triggered the natural rejoinder that it has to be the best when Bryant never read the others. Bryant smiled and said he did read the others - or, more accurately, the back covers of the others to see what they were about - before chucking them.
Quote:
Jackson calls the Phoenix Suns "one of the most difficult teams, if not the most difficult team, to plan for in this league because of the way they play," but he has emerged from study hall with a plan. It centers on Bryant, and it will require Bryant to make a lot of controlled, spontaneous decisions.

And that is what "Blink" is all about.

In every two-fingered whistle, public denigration or book Jackson offers his players, there is a message. In "Blink," there is a passage about basketball, likening the sport to improvisational comedy. In both, there's a lot of practicing skills and strategies before taking the stage for unscripted - but not random - group performance.

The LATimes should fire their Sports Writers and hire Ding away from the OCRegister.
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re4ee
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:28 am    Post subject:

8750 wrote:
same old story... trust your teammates is a very good thing, and kobe winning by himself can't always be an option... trusting your teammates is beginning to work with lamar, and sometimes with luke and kwame... but you can't have "equal opportunities" with smush, cook, sasha or jimmy jackson... we played very well as a team, but then these players always miss some open shots and have bad defensive rotations... and i'm not so sure that you can call good a strategy that at the end gets a bad result...
The "result" cannot be labled "good" or "bad" until one team or the other wins a fourth game! The game plan for Game 1 was not ALL about Game 1! Groundwork is being laid to win 4 before losing 4, that's what the playoffs are all about. Don't take all that talk about "taking one game at a time" stuff too seriously, at least in the post season.

Yesterday, the Lakers learned what it will take to break down the Suns game. Phil has a plan, the FINAL outcome won't be known until a SERIES winner is decided.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:50 am    Post subject:

All in all, I thought the team played a very intelligent game. Like normal, there were a few calls that didn't go our way:

1. Lamar called for a weak offensive foul when Marion was right under the basket, negating a possible 3-pt play.
2. Kwame called for blocking on a similar play in the 3rd. He was in position and stationary, but Thomas scored over him plus the foul.
3. TT whacking Kobe on the head late in the 4th and not getting called.

Add .3 to the end of the 1st Q and Sasha's heave counts. That's 11 pts right there, but the breaks didn't come our way.

Kobe going 7/21 while Thomas goes 8/10 is not normal.

After the 1st Q, the team really settled into a defensive mode, but seemed to relax after tying the score in the 4th. I think everyone expected Kobe to be Kobe and just take over from there, but he was just off. It wasn't that Phx did anything special to annoy or frustrate him. He was just off.

NKPOG = Lamar. Please no more (bleep) about him not being a player. The guy manned up tremendously, as did Luke.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:56 am    Post subject:

Quote:
NKPOG = Lamar. Please no more (bleep) about him not being a player. The guy manned up tremendously, as did Luke

Good to see more fans are finally seeing this.

The guy is a trumendous rebounder and someone that can do everything you ask of him on the basketball court.

Ron Artest is being suspended for game 2 after his team got blown out in game 1 (where Ron played like crap) - all this after he talked trash about how they would beat the Spurs.

Lamar Odom is making those that wanted Artest in place of him look like fools.

As for Luke - Just remember he is signed on for under 2 million. That is a steal considering he is starting for the Lakers right now and to an extent deserves to as he's one of the 5 best players on the team at this point.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:01 am    Post subject:

Good write up as always DB.

SGH, I agree with many of your points. But to me, this series really boils down to one simple thing for the Lakers.

Defensive effort.

If they play with a semi-desperate edge on defense (like they started to Sunday when they sensed it may be slipping away early after allowing the Suns a big 1st qtr) they can beat Phoenix.

But this team still has to prove that they can play with the requisite defensive energy and intensity required to get the job done. Turning it on after a bad quarter isn't enough, they can't have the bad qtr to begin with.

All those 3's early for Phoenix were wide open, the rotations early were horrible. Nash waltzed down the lane for 2 or 3 easy layups early. But then the Lakers tightened up those two things very well in my opinion, the 3s after that were at least contested.

Phoenix is too good offensively to come out with anything less than 100% effort and aggression defensively the ENTIRE game if the Lakers really want to make noise about winning the series.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:01 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:


Reading the boards - too many people are knocking Kobe.


The simple explanation is, too many people are idiots. The only thing Kobe didn't do well yesterday was hit some shots. I thought his leadership should have been "Player of the Game".
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:15 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
You guys don't get it.

Why was Lamar Odom knocked so much this season? It is NOT easy to play in the Triangle when you aren't the first option. If Phil told Kobe to be the team's 1st option and dominate the game - Kobe would do it with ease.

The part where ALL (STAR) players struggle with in the Triangle is when it's an equal oppurtunity offense. They have to be involved but just not by scoring. Yesterday - Odom and Kwame were just as much an option as Bryant was during the game. Kobe opened up the game for his teammates and raised their confidence. How? By just allowing them to be aggressive and getting the ball in the post. He was the reason the offense ran well, because like in most games he's instructing them where to set up the O. The difference was that he didn't dominate it himself like he's been doing most of the season.

Now, while Kobe clearly struggled to turn it on in the 4th - and had he been hot we probably win. But that's not reason enough to put this one on him. It is excessively hard for a volume shooter to just turn it on, and while Bryant can do it - he hasn't had to do this since the Shaq days.

I read this crap BS article by Celzic about how Kobe put the Lakers in a hole. It just goes to show you, that Kobe is screwed no matter what he does with some. I mean does anyone understand the way the Triangle works? It's an equal oppurtunity offense. Lebron or Nash wouldn't average 10 assists in this offense. More like 6-7. The Triangle has never been about one player having the 10 assists. It's about 5 players all playing together like an orchestra.

Yesterday, Kobe sent a clear message to his teammates and the Suns. This is not the Kobe Bryants. These are the LOS ANGELES LAKERS.

If you can't see that and just want to pile on Kobe - Well I'm sorry I just won't do that. Kobe played the right way. He played like a superstar that wants to win a championship - why? Because he trusted his system, coach and teammates. His shot was off and he still has to adjust to a different role, but knowing Kobe - it will not take him long to adjust.

"One shot and I'm hot"

Damn straight, Kobe. Game 2 - beware. Bryant will make many eat words ....


Look, Kobe had an off night. It's really that simple. It was obvious to alot of people, and I don't think it was because he was too immersed in running the offense. That was not was he was having trouble with. He just had an off night. He had good looks. To me, if Kobe makes 3 of those shots he usually makes in the 4th quarter, we win the game. However, that's not to say that Kobe hurt the team yesterday. Every player has an off night. I'm not really worried about it. What I am worried about, is that we can't count on Luke Walton scoring 19 points every game. That's why this loss stings.
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:22 am    Post subject:

Walton doesn't need to go for 19 per. He can just do what he's doing - and Kobe will have a better game.

So if Walton scores say 8-10 from here on in - I expect Bryant to make up for that by scoring 10-15 more points himself.

That's not really what I'm concerned with. I think Phil's the same. He said that he didn't think his team has confidence because they missed shots they should be making (Mentioned the Cook open 3 and Smush missing a few easy open looks in the 4th)

But I understand the frustration. Bryant's famous for 4th qtr. heroics and he just didn't deliver yesterday in that department.
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LAL25
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Joined: 03 Jun 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:40 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Walton doesn't need to go for 19 per. He can just do what he's doing - and Kobe will have a better game.

So if Walton scores say 8-10 from here on in - I expect Bryant to make up for that by scoring 10-15 more points himself.

That's not really what I'm concerned with. I think Phil's the same. He said that he didn't think his team has confidence because they missed shots they should be making (Mentioned the Cook open 3 and Smush missing a few easy open looks in the 4th)

But I understand the frustration. Bryant's famous for 4th qtr. heroics and he just didn't deliver yesterday in that department.


I think you're right, Walton doesn't have to score 19 per, but that was a very unusual game where everybody stepped up and Kobe just didn't seem like Kobe. There's no doubt Kobe will get back on track but other than Odom (who had a sick game in the paint), I'm not sure the rest of the team can match that performance.
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JUST-MING
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:41 am    Post subject:

sean2023 wrote:
Kobe going 3 for 10 in the 4th, including 4 straight misses during a portion of the game where LA went from being up 1 to down 6...it was key.

If you read what you just posted, the Suns only offense in that stretch were (uncharacteristic) free throws.
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