OT: ESPN says Francis for Ben Gordon
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lakersdynasty999
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:11 pm    Post subject: OT: ESPN says Francis for Ben Gordon

I heard that this trade is just about done on "Mike and Mike"

Seems like this deal came out of nowhere...does it really help either team?
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Fan0Bynum17
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:12 pm    Post subject:

Yea, but knowing ny and chicago I'm sure the bulls will be getting their first rounders till 2020.
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:13 pm    Post subject:

Wow horrible trade for Chicago
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Joseph Ferano
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:13 pm    Post subject:

I think Brown is going to like Gordon, I really don't think that Skiles is going to love Francis
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:15 pm    Post subject:

That cant be right, the salaries are way out.
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:19 pm    Post subject:

ben gordons wayyyy better than francis. not even close.
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loseyourname
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:20 pm    Post subject:

Chicago has the cap space to take on just about any salary in return for virtually nothing (like a guy on rookie scale), but do they really think Francis is the best option to use the money on? They could just sign a free agent and keep Gordon. Unless Francis is going to be flipped for someone else later on, this move doesn't make any sense. Even if Francis was a better fit and a much better player than Gordon, it still wouldn't make sense.
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ocho
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:21 pm    Post subject:

this completely boggles my mind. young, cheap better gordan for old, expensive and worst francis?
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:22 pm    Post subject:

There's already a post about this:

http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=24246
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:26 pm    Post subject:

loseyourname wrote:
Chicago has the cap space to take on just about any salary in return for virtually nothing (like a guy on rookie scale), but do they really think Francis is the best option to use the money on? They could just sign a free agent and keep Gordon. Unless Francis is going to be flipped for someone else later on, this move doesn't make any sense. Even if Francis was a better fit and a much better player than Gordon, it still wouldn't make sense.


Thanks for explaining that.

What position is Francis gonna play? Hinrich runs the show in Chicago and is better than Francis right across the board. Francis surely cant play SG because he has no outside shot, so where does he fit in?


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:27 pm    Post subject:

gentrinity15 wrote:
I think Brown is going to like Gordon, I really don't think that Skiles is going to love Francis

I thought Brown was already fired?!
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:27 pm    Post subject:

This would only make sense if an unconditional Knick first rounder is thrown in for next year, and if the Bulls are convinced that the Knicks will continue to implode. That would give the Bulls an excellent shot at Greg Oden.
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:28 pm    Post subject:

orwell wrote:
gentrinity15 wrote:
I think Brown is going to like Gordon, I really don't think that Skiles is going to love Francis

I thought Brown was already fired?!


Not yet officially. Just in rumours. I think it's very likely though.
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:28 pm    Post subject:

koolruningz wrote:
That cant be right, the salaries are way out.


When you are under the cap by the amount you are taking in or greater the salaries don't need to match up.

They have to put a good player or draft picks along with Francis to make this work.

Frye and Francis for Gordon.

Or future first rounders?


How about Gordon and Sweetney for Francis and Curry?
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:29 pm    Post subject:

da ocho wrote:
this completely boggles my mind. young, cheap better gordan for old, expensive and worst francis?


Younger and cheaper, yes. Better? No. Look at the stats and think for yourself, instead of falling for the media rhetoric. Gordon is a 40% 17 PPG, low assist, low rebound matador. Offensively, Francis is better in all aspects, and about the same at D.
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:31 pm    Post subject:

Knicks May Pursue Deal For Gordon
15th May, 2006 - 6:17 am
New York Post - The New York Bulls?

According to the New York Post, the Bulls and Knicks recently held trade discussions focusing on Ben Gordon.

New York has acquired young talents Jamal Crawford and Eddy Curry from Chicago the last two offseasons, the latter giving the Bulls the Knicks' unprotected lottery pick this year, a pick which is top-5 guaranteed and has the second best chance of becoming the first overall selection.

According to sources in Chicago and a source close to Gordon, the Knicks were interested in acquiring Gordon in exchange for, "one of the Knicks elite guards" and a No. 1 pick in next year's draft.

The New York Post yesterday reported that the Knicks are looking into buying out coach Larry Brown and replacing him with GM Isiah Thomas, so any talks are in limbo.

While Gordon is happy in Chicago, the New York Post states that the source in Chicago pointed out that Gordon is better suited to playing the point, and Kirk Hinrich seems entrenched as the starting point guard.

According to published reports the Bulls have out feelers to gauge interest in Gordon.

LINK.
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:31 pm    Post subject:

KobeWalksOnWater wrote:
ben gordons wayyyy better than francis. not even close.


How is that? Gordon is as one-dimensional as they come. :roll:
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:35 pm    Post subject:

orwell wrote:
Knicks May Pursue Deal For Gordon
15th May, 2006 - 6:17 am
New York Post - The New York Bulls?

According to the New York Post, the Bulls and Knicks recently held trade discussions focusing on Ben Gordon.

New York has acquired young talents Jamal Crawford and Eddy Curry from Chicago the last two offseasons, the latter giving the Bulls the Knicks' unprotected lottery pick this year, a pick which is top-5 guaranteed and has the second best chance of becoming the first overall selection.

According to sources in Chicago and a source close to Gordon, the Knicks were interested in acquiring Gordon in exchange for, "one of the Knicks elite guards" and a No. 1 pick in next year's draft.

The New York Post yesterday reported that the Knicks are looking into buying out coach Larry Brown and replacing him with GM Isiah Thomas, so any talks are in limbo.

While Gordon is happy in Chicago, the New York Post states that the source in Chicago pointed out that Gordon is better suited to playing the point, and Kirk Hinrich seems entrenched as the starting point guard.

According to published reports the Bulls have out feelers to gauge interest in Gordon.

LINK.




Yes that does make sense, especially if that first rounder is unconditional, just like the one surrendered by Isiah when they traded for Curry.

With Isiah coaching that team, it must be tempting to the Chicago GM.
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:35 pm    Post subject:

Gordon's career can go this way...

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... while Francis' career is destined to go this way:

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I would take Gordon over Francis every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
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Last edited by CheetahMan on Mon May 15, 2006 2:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:36 pm    Post subject:

BraveHeartII wrote:
da ocho wrote:
this completely boggles my mind. young, cheap better gordan for old, expensive and worst francis?


Younger and cheaper, yes. Better? No. Look at the stats and think for yourself, instead of falling for the media rhetoric. Gordon is a 40% 17 PPG, low assist, low rebound matador. Offensively, Francis is better in all aspects, and about the same at D.


braveheart there are things about basketball not found on the stat sheet. this is why you love stephon marbury so much. gordan has a better attitude, is more open to coaching, has more of a clutch factor than francis, and is a creative, dependeble go-to scorer. that coupled with his age and contract make him a much better score for the knicks than for the bulls.
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:36 pm    Post subject:

BraveHeartII wrote:
da ocho wrote:
this completely boggles my mind. young, cheap better gordan for old, expensive and worst francis?


Younger and cheaper, yes. Better? No. Look at the stats and think for yourself, instead of falling for the media rhetoric. Gordon is a 40% 17 PPG, low assist, low rebound matador. Offensively, Francis is better in all aspects, and about the same at D.



yes steve francis, by all account is a star in this league, dont let one "bad" season fool you. If u learn one thing about sports, never have the media as your source, look at how they view kobe bryant..you would think he is horrible, its a hype machine. While i dont want francis on the lakers, the bulls get a 20 points,7 assist,6 rebounds Pg, compared too a 17/2/3 combo guard. The problem with francis however, is that he does his own thing, but he has shown the ability too too reign himself in , like we saw in his last year in houston. And how has houston done without him? Not better at all.
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:39 pm    Post subject:

lakers0505 wrote:
BraveHeartII wrote:
da ocho wrote:
this completely boggles my mind. young, cheap better gordan for old, expensive and worst francis?


Younger and cheaper, yes. Better? No. Look at the stats and think for yourself, instead of falling for the media rhetoric. Gordon is a 40% 17 PPG, low assist, low rebound matador. Offensively, Francis is better in all aspects, and about the same at D.

And how has houston done without him? Not better at all.


that's really not fair...tmac was sidelined with an injury. so they basically got juwan howard for him.
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:43 pm    Post subject:

NestT wrote:
koolruningz wrote:
That cant be right, the salaries are way out.


When you are under the cap by the amount you are taking in or greater the salaries don't need to match up.



Thanks.
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:48 pm    Post subject:

da ocho wrote:
lakers0505 wrote:
BraveHeartII wrote:
da ocho wrote:
this completely boggles my mind. young, cheap better gordan for old, expensive and worst francis?


Younger and cheaper, yes. Better? No. Look at the stats and think for yourself, instead of falling for the media rhetoric. Gordon is a 40% 17 PPG, low assist, low rebound matador. Offensively, Francis is better in all aspects, and about the same at D.

And how has houston done without him? Not better at all.


that's really not fair...tmac was sidelined with an injury. so they basically got juwan howard for him.


First, no one is arguing that Francis makes them better than T-Mac. Yet it doesn't matter because Yao without Francis is a much worse team than with Francis, so clearly Francis is not a franchise destroyer as much as you think.

Secondly, injuries does make a player more or less valuable.
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:53 pm    Post subject:

da ocho wrote:
BraveHeartII wrote:
da ocho wrote:
this completely boggles my mind. young, cheap better gordan for old, expensive and worst francis?


Younger and cheaper, yes. Better? No. Look at the stats and think for yourself, instead of falling for the media rhetoric. Gordon is a 40% 17 PPG, low assist, low rebound matador. Offensively, Francis is better in all aspects, and about the same at D.


braveheart there are things about basketball not found on the stat sheet. this is why you love stephon marbury so much. gordan has a better attitude, is more open to coaching, has more of a clutch factor than francis, and is a creative, dependeble go-to scorer. that coupled with his age and contract make him a much better score for the knicks than for the bulls.


More open to coaching? Cook is more open to coaching than Kwame, does that make him better? No.

More clutch is arguable. And looking at their stats, it's clear that even if Gordon is clutch, he's clutch in just one area.

Age and contract, I already conceded that, so you can't count that twice. I was arguing the better part. The problem I had was that you automatically bought into the media's brainwashing, even though Gordon's stats were clearly inferior, and doesn't even make up for that on D.
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