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vanexelent
Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 30081
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 Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Some may use the Colorado thing as an excuse but it is what it is. Oh well. And another thing for those who look at people who are no longer rooting for him "petty." Does it make you superior or "mature" than others because you still root for him? Yeah he helped w/the 3 rings and won 3 finals MVPs, duh! That doesn't excuse his behavior and it doesn't say much for those whe excuse it or dismiss it as "he's just being Shaq." No, I'm not rooting for him, I can see him for what he is through the smokescreen and media fluff. |
So its ok to dismiss Kobe's behavior in that "Colorado thing", but not even 3 rings and 3 Finals MVP's can excuse Shaq for playing to the media. Sad to say, but your morals are not in order my friend. |
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classytee
Sixth Man
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 45
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | Quote: | | Some may use the Colorado thing as an excuse but it is what it is. Oh well. And another thing for those who look at people who are no longer rooting for him "petty." Does it make you superior or "mature" than others because you still root for him? Yeah he helped w/the 3 rings and won 3 finals MVPs, duh! That doesn't excuse his behavior and it doesn't say much for those whe excuse it or dismiss it as "he's just being Shaq." No, I'm not rooting for him, I can see him for what he is through the smokescreen and media fluff. |
So its ok to dismiss Kobe's behavior in that "Colorado thing", but not even 3 rings and 3 Finals MVP's can excuse Shaq for playing to the media. Sad to say, but your morals are not in order my friend. |
Who the hell do you think you are to judge my morals. You aint God here. Yeah I called it the "Colorado thing" what, what! I don't recal making excuses for that and no, he shouldn't have cheated on his wife. But last I checked, that's all he's guilty of. So you can take your cheap shot and SHOVE IT. :roll: |
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vvbandit
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 2413
Location: Newport Coast
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| classytee wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | Quote: | | Some may use the Colorado thing as an excuse but it is what it is. Oh well. And another thing for those who look at people who are no longer rooting for him "petty." Does it make you superior or "mature" than others because you still root for him? Yeah he helped w/the 3 rings and won 3 finals MVPs, duh! That doesn't excuse his behavior and it doesn't say much for those whe excuse it or dismiss it as "he's just being Shaq." No, I'm not rooting for him, I can see him for what he is through the smokescreen and media fluff. |
So its ok to dismiss Kobe's behavior in that "Colorado thing", but not even 3 rings and 3 Finals MVP's can excuse Shaq for playing to the media. Sad to say, but your morals are not in order my friend. |
Who the hell do you think you are to judge my morals. You aint God here. Yeah I called it the "Colorado thing" what, what! I don't recal making excuses for that and no, he shouldn't have cheated on his wife. But last I checked, that's all he's guilty of. So you can take your cheap shot and SHOVE IT. :roll: |
He also told the cops about Shaqs personal life which is a no no.
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If there is less than a minute to play give the ball to Kobe and let him decide. |
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classytee
Sixth Man
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 45
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| vvbandit wrote: | | classytee wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | Quote: | | Some may use the Colorado thing as an excuse but it is what it is. Oh well. And another thing for those who look at people who are no longer rooting for him "petty." Does it make you superior or "mature" than others because you still root for him? Yeah he helped w/the 3 rings and won 3 finals MVPs, duh! That doesn't excuse his behavior and it doesn't say much for those whe excuse it or dismiss it as "he's just being Shaq." No, I'm not rooting for him, I can see him for what he is through the smokescreen and media fluff. |
So its ok to dismiss Kobe's behavior in that "Colorado thing", but not even 3 rings and 3 Finals MVP's can excuse Shaq for playing to the media. Sad to say, but your morals are not in order my friend. |
Who the hell do you think you are to judge my morals. You aint God here. Yeah I called it the "Colorado thing" what, what! I don't recal making excuses for that and no, he shouldn't have cheated on his wife. But last I checked, that's all he's guilty of. So you can take your cheap shot and SHOVE IT. :roll: |
He also told the cops about Shaqs personal life which is a no no. |
Yeah, the Ultimate Man-Card no no.LOL! |
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TACH
Retired Number
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 28461
Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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This topic is being discussed on the Loose Cannons,.. right now....
LINK
Vic is rooting for Snaq,...Hartman says how can you root for him... |
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Bergamotichek
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 16777206
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| vvbandit wrote: | | classytee wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | Quote: | | Some may use the Colorado thing as an excuse but it is what it is. Oh well. And another thing for those who look at people who are no longer rooting for him "petty." Does it make you superior or "mature" than others because you still root for him? Yeah he helped w/the 3 rings and won 3 finals MVPs, duh! That doesn't excuse his behavior and it doesn't say much for those whe excuse it or dismiss it as "he's just being Shaq." No, I'm not rooting for him, I can see him for what he is through the smokescreen and media fluff. |
So its ok to dismiss Kobe's behavior in that "Colorado thing", but not even 3 rings and 3 Finals MVP's can excuse Shaq for playing to the media. Sad to say, but your morals are not in order my friend. |
Who the hell do you think you are to judge my morals. You aint God here. Yeah I called it the "Colorado thing" what, what! I don't recal making excuses for that and no, he shouldn't have cheated on his wife. But last I checked, that's all he's guilty of. So you can take your cheap shot and SHOVE IT. :roll: |
He also told the cops about Shaqs personal life which is a no no. |
Oh yeah... the "confession" that was added to the transcripts 6 months afterwards... and doesn't appear anywhere on the recorded interview.
But, by all means... let's perpetuate the myth. |
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ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 53845
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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JD i hear your point but its still a no-no. players are told when they first enter the league what to say and what not to say to the press, cops, anyone. obviously he was under a lot of stress and panic at the time...but i'm sure he would take that back if he could.
and i hadn't heard of it being added to the transcripts..i assumed it was part of the original. do you know why it was added so much later?
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re4ee
Franchise Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 12237
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| vvbandit wrote: | This topic sure does stir up a lot of emotions and with good reason of course. I agree with Vlade and Vanexcellent the most at this point. Ill try to give my two cents of how I percieved the break up.
The first thing that got me slightly worried is when Kobe decided to opt out of his contract. It was announced like a year in advance and I cant completely remember but the timing seemed odd. I cant blame him for opting out and trying to get a max contract a year earlier, money wise its a no brainer. I just didnt like that it was made public so early that it became an issue when it didnt have to be. I also thought KB might be opting out to gain leverage. Im pretty sure KB knew Phils contract would be up the same year and that Shaq was in the process of trying to get an extension. Im not saying Kobe ran to Dr Buss and gave him an ultimatem, but It was pretty obvious Phil didnt like Kobe and Kobe didnt like Phil. I think Phil had already tried to get KB traded once or twice by this point. |
It is not uncommon for a player, entering the final year of his contract, to hint that he may expolre FA, so his timing wasn't "odd" at all, and Shaq didn't decide that he wanted an EARLY extension until AFTER Kobe hinted at his FA thoughts.
| vvbandit wrote: | | Second thing that started to concern me was when they decided not to extend Phils contract. Why in the hell wouldnt you make it a top priority to sign IMO the greatest coach of all time. Once I read Phils book it became a little clearer, I had no idea that Phil disliked KB so much on a personal level. |
Phil, pretty much had made up his mind that he was not going to coach the next year, he wanted to take some time off, and even hinted that he may have been done with coaching at that time.
| vvbandit wrote: | | The third problem was Shaq v Kobe. These two just couldnt get along at all, and theres plenty of blame to go around. IMO KB shoulders a lot more of the blame in this case b/c it was pretty obvious that nobody liked KB. People like Rick Fox, Robert Horry, Phil Jackson, Shaq, nobody really liked him. He was too much of a loner especially in that social setting when you are supposed to be trying to win the favor of the veterans on the team. Those type of actions could be looked at as disrespectful and can rub people the wrong way He came into this league at 17 and joined a team full of men. When he arrived he acted as if he owned the joint and wasnt as humble as he shouldve been. I believe he got out of hand and Shaq had to slap him in practice one time. Im not sure what it is about his personality but nobody else seemed to hate Shaq, and Phil. Jordan loved Phil so did Pippen, Rodman, Shaq, so what the hell was Kobes problem. It always seemed like KB was the one who had issues with everyone. I cant give KB all the blame, he was only a kid and these grown men couldve treated him with more patience. I actually give a lot of the blame to Del Harris for not being able to control the situation. Although Shaq gets some of the blame its definately not 50/50. |
Nope, not true at all, nearly all of that was a perception created by the media. Read the book again, and realize how the media distorted every report about its contents by distorting context!
Where's the dislike?
Where's the dislike?
Where's the dislike?
Where's the dislike?
Where's the dislike?
Where's the dislike?
Where's the dislike?
| vvbandit wrote: | It was now up to Dr Buss to make a decision. This is what he definately knows at this point.
1. Phil has said he wont coach a team with KB on it and wants him traded.
2. KB will most likely leave and go to another team if things stay the way they are.
3. Shaq is getting older and doesnt seem as if he will ever hand control over to KB b/c of his personal dislike for him.
4. Shaq is being a pain in the butt with his own contract negotiations.
5. Dr Buss says the fan mail he gets for KB is 5 to 1 compared to what Shaq gets.
6. KB is young and will sell out the building for 10-12 more years. |
1.Already explained by Phil as a "heat of the moment" comment, taken out of the context of being in a "diary"!
2.Perhaps, but there was little to no chance that Buss wasn't going to exceed any and all offers Kobe recieved.
3.More likely because it would bruise the BIG EGO, and his lack of REAL commitment to the TEAM!
4.And, he wasn't due for an extension for a couple of more seasons.
5."Kobe is like a son to me" Dr. Jerry Buss.
6.AND, has one of the best work ethics and killer instincts, ever.
| vvbandit wrote: | | So Dr Buss went with the Kid just like every other owner would do if he was forced to make that decision. The problem I have is that he was forced to make that decision. Its all BS and the only ones who really suffered were Laker fans. We all know if Shaq and KB wouldve stayed together the Lakers wouldve made 5-6 more final appearences with at least 2-3 more titles. Mitch is forced to sell some stupid 07/08 plan as if that was the reason they broke up the team. Championships are damn near impossible to come by and we had something special. You dont just break that up if you dont have to. Ahh man now Im pissed again about the whole thing, this sucks. |
The final 2 seasons of Shaq and Kobe didn't deliver any more rings, why would you expect that to change for 5-6 more seasons? It was time to move on for the Laker org., thinking anything else is just delusional. |
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Bergamotichek
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 16777206
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| da ocho wrote: | JD i hear your point but its still a no-no. players are told when they first enter the league what to say and what not to say to the press, cops, anyone. obviously he was under a lot of stress and panic at the time...but i'm sure he would take that back if he could.
and i hadn't heard of it being added to the transcripts..i assumed it was part of the original. do you know why it was added so much later? |
What was a no-no? What the cops claim Kobe said?
See... that's the problem. You believe what they fed you.
If Kobe truly ratted out Snaq, with what they claim he did... how come they neglected to add it until 6 months later? Why isn't it on the tapes?
Funny, that the same time this tidbit was added to the transcripts, was the same time police were trying to investigate and interview a witness present at one of Snaq's parties (that Kobe was present at). Hmmm... perhaps a little extra motivation, to gain a helpful "witness" to this "evil behavior" of Kobe's?
Some people like to use Kobe's "apology" to Snaq, to bolster their argument. Well... what exactly did Kobe apolgize for? He certainly didn't say, "Sorry, Snaq for ratting you out". All Kobe apolgized was for Snaq being dragged into it. That could be interpreted several different ways.
But, people will keep perpetruating the myth... the story will keep changing... the facts, will be dismissed... then finally forgotten. Leaving only the lie to grow. |
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TACH
Retired Number
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 28461
Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| JD wrote: | | vvbandit wrote: | | classytee wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | Quote: | | Some may use the Colorado thing as an excuse but it is what it is. Oh well. And another thing for those who look at people who are no longer rooting for him "petty." Does it make you superior or "mature" than others because you still root for him? Yeah he helped w/the 3 rings and won 3 finals MVPs, duh! That doesn't excuse his behavior and it doesn't say much for those whe excuse it or dismiss it as "he's just being Shaq." No, I'm not rooting for him, I can see him for what he is through the smokescreen and media fluff. |
So its ok to dismiss Kobe's behavior in that "Colorado thing", but not even 3 rings and 3 Finals MVP's can excuse Shaq for playing to the media. Sad to say, but your morals are not in order my friend. |
Who the hell do you think you are to judge my morals. You aint God here. Yeah I called it the "Colorado thing" what, what! I don't recal making excuses for that and no, he shouldn't have cheated on his wife. But last I checked, that's all he's guilty of. So you can take your cheap shot and SHOVE IT. :roll: |
He also told the cops about Shaqs personal life which is a no no. |
Oh yeah... the "confession" that was added to the transcripts 6 months afterwards... and doesn't appear anywhere on the recorded interview.
But, by all means... let's perpetuate the myth. |
I always thought that was a little funny.... everything else was taped or in a transscript, except for that statement. Makes you wonder....
If it was said,.. we don't even know the context of the statement... Does anybody know what exactly was said... did the police go to Snaqs with it??? |
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vvbandit
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 2413
Location: Newport Coast
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| re4ee wrote: | | vvbandit wrote: | This topic sure does stir up a lot of emotions and with good reason of course. I agree with Vlade and Vanexcellent the most at this point. Ill try to give my two cents of how I percieved the break up.
The first thing that got me slightly worried is when Kobe decided to opt out of his contract. It was announced like a year in advance and I cant completely remember but the timing seemed odd. I cant blame him for opting out and trying to get a max contract a year earlier, money wise its a no brainer. I just didnt like that it was made public so early that it became an issue when it didnt have to be. I also thought KB might be opting out to gain leverage. Im pretty sure KB knew Phils contract would be up the same year and that Shaq was in the process of trying to get an extension. Im not saying Kobe ran to Dr Buss and gave him an ultimatem, but It was pretty obvious Phil didnt like Kobe and Kobe didnt like Phil. I think Phil had already tried to get KB traded once or twice by this point. |
It is not uncommon for a player, entering the final year of his contract, to hint that he may expolre FA, so his timing wasn't "odd" at all, and Shaq didn't decide that he wanted an EARLY extension until AFTER Kobe hinted at his FA thoughts.
| vvbandit wrote: | | Second thing that started to concern me was when they decided not to extend Phils contract. Why in the hell wouldnt you make it a top priority to sign IMO the greatest coach of all time. Once I read Phils book it became a little clearer, I had no idea that Phil disliked KB so much on a personal level. |
Phil, pretty much had made up his mind that he was not going to coach the next year, he wanted to take some time off, and even hinted that he may have been done with coaching at that time.
| vvbandit wrote: | | The third problem was Shaq v Kobe. These two just couldnt get along at all, and theres plenty of blame to go around. IMO KB shoulders a lot more of the blame in this case b/c it was pretty obvious that nobody liked KB. People like Rick Fox, Robert Horry, Phil Jackson, Shaq, nobody really liked him. He was too much of a loner especially in that social setting when you are supposed to be trying to win the favor of the veterans on the team. Those type of actions could be looked at as disrespectful and can rub people the wrong way He came into this league at 17 and joined a team full of men. When he arrived he acted as if he owned the joint and wasnt as humble as he shouldve been. I believe he got out of hand and Shaq had to slap him in practice one time. Im not sure what it is about his personality but nobody else seemed to hate Shaq, and Phil. Jordan loved Phil so did Pippen, Rodman, Shaq, so what the hell was Kobes problem. It always seemed like KB was the one who had issues with everyone. I cant give KB all the blame, he was only a kid and these grown men couldve treated him with more patience. I actually give a lot of the blame to Del Harris for not being able to control the situation. Although Shaq gets some of the blame its definately not 50/50. |
Nope, not true at all, nearly all of that was a perception created by the media. Read the book again, and realize how the media distorted every report about its contents by distorting context!
Where's the dislike?
Where's the dislike?
Where's the dislike?
Where's the dislike?
Where's the dislike?
Where's the dislike?
Where's the dislike?
| vvbandit wrote: | It was now up to Dr Buss to make a decision. This is what he definately knows at this point.
1. Phil has said he wont coach a team with KB on it and wants him traded.
2. KB will most likely leave and go to another team if things stay the way they are.
3. Shaq is getting older and doesnt seem as if he will ever hand control over to KB b/c of his personal dislike for him.
4. Shaq is being a pain in the butt with his own contract negotiations.
5. Dr Buss says the fan mail he gets for KB is 5 to 1 compared to what Shaq gets.
6. KB is young and will sell out the building for 10-12 more years. |
1.Already explained by Phil as a "heat of the moment" comment, taken out of the context of being in a "diary"!
2.Perhaps, but there was little to no chance that Buss wasn't going to exceed any and all offers Kobe recieved.
3.More likely because it would bruise the BIG EGO, and his lack of REAL commitment to the TEAM!
4.And, he wasn't due for an extension for a couple of more seasons.
5."Kobe is like a son to me" Dr. Jerry Buss.
6.AND, has one of the best work ethics and killer instincts, ever.
| vvbandit wrote: | | So Dr Buss went with the Kid just like every other owner would do if he was forced to make that decision. The problem I have is that he was forced to make that decision. Its all BS and the only ones who really suffered were Laker fans. We all know if Shaq and KB wouldve stayed together the Lakers wouldve made 5-6 more final appearences with at least 2-3 more titles. Mitch is forced to sell some stupid 07/08 plan as if that was the reason they broke up the team. Championships are damn near impossible to come by and we had something special. You dont just break that up if you dont have to. Ahh man now Im pissed again about the whole thing, this sucks. |
The final 2 seasons of Shaq and Kobe didn't deliver any more rings, why would you expect that to change for 5-6 more seasons? It was time to move on for the Laker org., thinking anything else is just delusional. |
Regarding the timing of his opting out, it was odd, it was announced like a year in advance during the season. IMO there was more to it than just KB wanting to explore his options. Of coure he should opt out and test the market, especially if you arent happy with your current situation.
Phil wanted to keep coaching, why do you think he was suprised when Dr Buss told him he was cutting off contract talks, and Im not sure it was a coincidence that this happened shortly after he made his remarks to Mitch about not wanting to coach KB. I dont think he ever went back to Mitch and told him he was just saying that in the heat of the moment. I undersand his book was in diary form but there is a big difference between writing something in your journal and going to your boss and trying to get one of your franchise players traded.
You actually think a team of KB and Shaq wouldnt be able to win the title? They had just lost in the FINALS with Slava Medvedenko as our starting PF for games 2-5. Look at the Pistons now, check out the Spurs, you dont think a team with Phil, KB, and a 75%Shaq wouldnt have a chance to get another ring or two. I know our Laker teams were better than the Heat are now and look what they are doing to the Pistons. We wouldve competed every year and most likely pulled through to win a couple. Phil was here for five years and we went to the Finals four times with three rings. Why in the world would you break that up unless you absolutely had to?
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If there is less than a minute to play give the ball to Kobe and let him decide. |
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vvbandit
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 2413
Location: Newport Coast
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| JD wrote: | | da ocho wrote: | JD i hear your point but its still a no-no. players are told when they first enter the league what to say and what not to say to the press, cops, anyone. obviously he was under a lot of stress and panic at the time...but i'm sure he would take that back if he could.
and i hadn't heard of it being added to the transcripts..i assumed it was part of the original. do you know why it was added so much later? |
What was a no-no? What the cops claim Kobe said?
See... that's the problem. You believe what they fed you.
If Kobe truly ratted out Snaq, with what they claim he did... how come they neglected to add it until 6 months later? Why isn't it on the tapes?
Funny, that the same time this tidbit was added to the transcripts, was the same time police were trying to investigate and interview a witness present at one of Snaq's parties (that Kobe was present at). Hmmm... perhaps a little extra motivation, to gain a helpful "witness" to this "evil behavior" of Kobe's?
Some people like to use Kobe's "apology" to Snaq, to bolster their argument. Well... what exactly did Kobe apolgize for? He certainly didn't say, "Sorry, Snaq for ratting you out". All Kobe apolgized was for Snaq being dragged into it. That could be interpreted several different ways.
But, people will keep perpetruating the myth... the story will keep changing... the facts, will be dismissed... then finally forgotten. Leaving
only the lie to grow. |
Do you have any links to where you got this knowledge JD. I never heard what you are saying so I wouldnt mind being more informed on the subject.
_________________
If there is less than a minute to play give the ball to Kobe and let him decide. |
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Bergamotichek
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 16777206
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| vvbandit wrote: |
Do you have any links to where you got this knowledge JD. I never heard what you are saying so I wouldnt mind being more informed on the subject. |
All of it was covered in-depth on this forum during the whole fiasco. LT might still have their forum archived, but we deleted it a long time ago.
Unabogie is the best source for all of this and kept pretty good records of everything that transpired, or knows where to find it. |
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vanexelent
Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 30081
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| classytee wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | Quote: | | Some may use the Colorado thing as an excuse but it is what it is. Oh well. And another thing for those who look at people who are no longer rooting for him "petty." Does it make you superior or "mature" than others because you still root for him? Yeah he helped w/the 3 rings and won 3 finals MVPs, duh! That doesn't excuse his behavior and it doesn't say much for those whe excuse it or dismiss it as "he's just being Shaq." No, I'm not rooting for him, I can see him for what he is through the smokescreen and media fluff. |
So its ok to dismiss Kobe's behavior in that "Colorado thing", but not even 3 rings and 3 Finals MVP's can excuse Shaq for playing to the media. Sad to say, but your morals are not in order my friend. |
Who the hell do you think you are to judge my morals. You aint God here. Yeah I called it the "Colorado thing" what, what! I don't recal making excuses for that and no, he shouldn't have cheated on his wife. But last I checked, that's all he's guilty of. So you can take your cheap shot and SHOVE IT. :roll: |
ClassyTee, you sound like a hot head. Perhaps you need to take a few breaths and cool off. I don't care what morals you have or not. I wasn't judging you per say, but rather your conflicting comments.
[ | Quote: | | b]Yeah he helped w/the 3 rings and won 3 finals MVPs, duh! That doesn't excuse his behavior and it doesn't say much for those whe excuse it or dismiss it as "he's just being Shaq." No, I'm not rooting for him, I can see him for what he is through the smokescreen and media fluff. |
[/b]
You see Classy, you are indeed judging Shaq and those who "excuse" or "dismiss" his behavior. And for you to judge Shaq on his behavior and not his play, and then turn around and judge Kobe on ONLY his play and not his behavior, is hypocritical of you. And now I am judging you. |
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Sonicc64
Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 4028
Location: Delaware
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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this 'vvbandit' poster sounds like SNaq can do no wrong.... and KObe was totally at fault for being a 17 yr old rookie in the NBA; with a BIG BULLY for a center.
going back to Kobe's rookie year when Snaq and he started playing together, to present time... I would say that it was TOTALY 70% Snaq and 30% Phil's fault they are not playing together now. |
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classytee
Sixth Man
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 45
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | classytee wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | Quote: | | Some may use the Colorado thing as an excuse but it is what it is. Oh well. And another thing for those who look at people who are no longer rooting for him "petty." Does it make you superior or "mature" than others because you still root for him? Yeah he helped w/the 3 rings and won 3 finals MVPs, duh! That doesn't excuse his behavior and it doesn't say much for those whe excuse it or dismiss it as "he's just being Shaq." No, I'm not rooting for him, I can see him for what he is through the smokescreen and media fluff. |
So its ok to dismiss Kobe's behavior in that "Colorado thing", but not even 3 rings and 3 Finals MVP's can excuse Shaq for playing to the media. Sad to say, but your morals are not in order my friend. |
Who the hell do you think you are to judge my morals. You aint God here. Yeah I called it the "Colorado thing" what, what! I don't recal making excuses for that and no, he shouldn't have cheated on his wife. But last I checked, that's all he's guilty of. So you can take your cheap shot and SHOVE IT. :roll: |
ClassyTee, you sound like a hot head. Perhaps you need to take a few breaths and cool off. I don't care what morals you have or not. I wasn't judging you per say, but rather your conflicting comments.
[ | Quote: | | b]Yeah he helped w/the 3 rings and won 3 finals MVPs, duh! That doesn't excuse his behavior and it doesn't say much for those whe excuse it or dismiss it as "he's just being Shaq." No, I'm not rooting for him, I can see him for what he is through the smokescreen and media fluff. |
[/b]
You see Classy, you are indeed judging Shaq and those who "excuse" or "dismiss" his behavior. And for you to judge Shaq on his behavior and not his play, and then turn around and judge Kobe on ONLY his play and not his behavior, is hypocritical of you. And now I am judging you. |
Yes, I am hot, in fact I'm hot as hell. I'm sick and tired of hearing the same ole-same ole about Tubby. Then I gotta come on here and get bashed for sticking up for Kobe? Yeah, I'm gonna let you know what I think about that. As far as Snaq, all I hear on TV and radio is from his perspective when I know both good and bad. If you wanna call it "judging" then that's on you. You're the hypocrite cause your "judging" Kobe and his Colorado issues. So don't go there with me. I know Kobe's not perfect and made mistakes just like everybody else but to some he has to be the most hated. But regardless, this is a message board and I will be all over hear posting WHATEVER I WANT.
:roll: I'm not a hot-head, I'm a Divaaaaaa!
Last edited by classytee on Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Unabogie
Starting Rotation
Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 958
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| JD wrote: | | vvbandit wrote: |
Do you have any links to where you got this knowledge JD. I never heard what you are saying so I wouldnt mind being more informed on the subject. |
All of it was covered in-depth on this forum during the whole fiasco. LT might still have their forum archived, but we deleted it a long time ago.
Unabogie is the best source for all of this and kept pretty good records of everything that transpired, or knows where to find it. |
I don't have the docs handy anymore, but I can point you in the right direction.
http://www.courts.state.co.us/exec/media/eagle/courtdocuments.htm
This is the court site. There is considerable argument in the last bunch of released docs on this supposed comment by Kobe. The problem is that this comment does not appear on tape, during any part of the main interrogation, so there is no proof that Kobe said what he is accused of.
The evidence is:
1. Mackey does not deny that SOMETHING was said, only that it was not germaine to the case.
2. The comment was remembered 5 months later, and was never part of any police report:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1004044shaq1.html
3. All of this happened, based on an SI article, shortly after a woman claimed to have been groped by Kobe at Shaq's house. The woman flaked on her interview (this is in the court docs) and Shaq refused to comment. Suddenly, this ammended report appears, and as Shaq said, they told him about it.
Now, my guess, and this is only a guess, is that they used it to make Shaq mad enough to testify against Kobe. This wasn't the first thing they "remembered" later, either. When Kate Faber admitted making up key details of her story, the prosecutor had her "remember" that Kobe referred to himself as a "black mother (bleep)" and they tried to get that statement in the trial.
They also filed other ammended reports regarding Kobe's bodyguard making incriminating comments, which also magically don't appear on tape.
And finally, the judge found they started and stopped the tape 11 times, while claiming it was all one recording.
So I take what they say as probable lies.
YMMV
Last edited by Unabogie on Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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vvbandit
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 2413
Location: Newport Coast
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| Unabogie wrote: | | JD wrote: | | vvbandit wrote: |
Do you have any links to where you got this knowledge JD. I never heard what you are saying so I wouldnt mind being more informed on the subject. |
All of it was covered in-depth on this forum during the whole fiasco. LT might still have their forum archived, but we deleted it a long time ago.
Unabogie is the best source for all of this and kept pretty good records of everything that transpired, or knows where to find it. |
I don't have the docs handy anymore, but I can point you in the right direction.
http://www.courts.state.co.us/exec/media/eagle/courtdocuments.htm
This is the court site. There is considerable argument in the last bunch of released docs on this supposed comment by Kobe. The problem is that this comment does not appear on tape, during any of the main interrogation, so there is no proof that Kobe said what he is accused of.
The evidence is:
1. Mackey does not deny that SOMETHING was said, only that it was not germaine to the case.
2. The comment was remembered 5 months later, and was never part of any police report:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1004044shaq1.html
4. All of this happened, based on an SI article, shortly after a woman claimed to have been groped by Kobe at Shaq's house. The woman flaked on her interview (this is in the court docs) and Shaq refused to comment. Suddenly, this ammended report appears, and as Shaq said, they told him about it.
Now, my guess, and this is only a guess, is that they used it to make Shaq mad enough to testify against Kobe. This wasn't the first thing they "remembered" later, either. When Kate Faber admitted making up key details of her story, the prosecutor had her "remember" that Kobe referred to himself as a "black mother (bleep)" and they tried to get that statement in the trial.
They also filed other ammended reports regarding Kobe's bodyguard making incriminating comments, which also magically don't appear on tape.
And finally, the judge found they started and stopped the tape 11 times, while claiming it was all one recording.
So I take what they say as probable lies.
YMMV |
very helpful, thanks
_________________
If there is less than a minute to play give the ball to Kobe and let him decide. |
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Unabogie
Starting Rotation
Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 958
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| vvbandit wrote: | | Unabogie wrote: | | JD wrote: | | vvbandit wrote: |
Do you have any links to where you got this knowledge JD. I never heard what you are saying so I wouldnt mind being more informed on the subject. |
All of it was covered in-depth on this forum during the whole fiasco. LT might still have their forum archived, but we deleted it a long time ago.
Unabogie is the best source for all of this and kept pretty good records of everything that transpired, or knows where to find it. |
I don't have the docs handy anymore, but I can point you in the right direction.
http://www.courts.state.co.us/exec/media/eagle/courtdocuments.htm
This is the court site. There is considerable argument in the last bunch of released docs on this supposed comment by Kobe. The problem is that this comment does not appear on tape, during any of the main interrogation, so there is no proof that Kobe said what he is accused of.
The evidence is:
1. Mackey does not deny that SOMETHING was said, only that it was not germaine to the case.
2. The comment was remembered 5 months later, and was never part of any police report:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1004044shaq1.html
4. All of this happened, based on an SI article, shortly after a woman claimed to have been groped by Kobe at Shaq's house. The woman flaked on her interview (this is in the court docs) and Shaq refused to comment. Suddenly, this ammended report appears, and as Shaq said, they told him about it.
Now, my guess, and this is only a guess, is that they used it to make Shaq mad enough to testify against Kobe. This wasn't the first thing they "remembered" later, either. When Kate Faber admitted making up key details of her story, the prosecutor had her "remember" that Kobe referred to himself as a "black mother (bleep)" and they tried to get that statement in the trial.
They also filed other ammended reports regarding Kobe's bodyguard making incriminating comments, which also magically don't appear on tape.
And finally, the judge found they started and stopped the tape 11 times, while claiming it was all one recording.
So I take what they say as probable lies.
YMMV |
very helpful, thanks |
No problem. Keep in mind that during that month, Hurlbert was trying desperately to prove some sort of "prior bad act" on Kobe's part, so they were literally scouring the country looking for Kobe's other "victims". Shortly after this whole incident blew up, Hurlbert went to the judge and officially declined to introduce any prior bad acts from Kobe, so this was pretty much his hail Mary. |
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TheBigRuski
Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2002
Posts: 10043
Location: San Clemente
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:19 am Post subject: |
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Ben Wallace asks "Who's Shaq?"
_________________
[b:7c818fb74e]Lebron who?[/b:7c818fb74e] |
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Bergamotichek
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 16777206
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| Unabogie wrote: | | No problem. Keep in mind that during that month, Hurlbert was trying desperately to prove some sort of "prior bad act" on Kobe's part, so they were literally scouring the country looking for Kobe's other "victims". Shortly after this whole incident blew up, Hurlbert went to the judge and officially declined to introduce any prior bad acts from Kobe, so this was pretty much his hail Mary. |
Thanks, Unabogie... besides being a solid poster, you have always been a great source for info. |
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re4ee
Franchise Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 12237
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| JD wrote: | | vvbandit wrote: |
Do you have any links to where you got this knowledge JD. I never heard what you are saying so I wouldnt mind being more informed on the subject. |
All of it was covered in-depth on this forum during the whole fiasco. LT might still have their forum archived, but we deleted it a long time ago.
Unabogie is the best source for all of this and kept pretty good records of everything that transpired, or knows where to find it. |
I followed thie whole sordid affair as well, and exchanged much info with Unabogie. The way the DA's feminazi spokesperson released this tid-bit was more than questionable. It never appeared in any corut docs until Pam Mackey filed a motion to possibly sanction the DA's office because it was a disputed interpretation of the tape transcripts. It appeared in like the 3rd prosecution version, but was listed as <inaudible> in all previous, and the defense's version. It also was certainly NOT part of the prosecutions "evidence" that was ruled as admissible. It was also strange that it was first mentioned after the accuser made MAJOR amendments to her statements, and also after that snake Shapiro stuck his smarmy nose in the whole thing.
I'm not certain if it is contained in any of the docs I have saved somewhere. I do remember that it was the subject of a very heated hearing in which Hal Haddon accused the DA of violating court orders regarding inadmissible portions of the police tapes.
While it was never finally ruled on, due to the dismissal, it was also never clear what was specifically said, but there was information that the prosecution's investigators did attempt to contact Shaq, as far as I know that went nowhere. |
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re4ee
Franchise Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 12237
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| Unabogie, I remember those clowns on CourtTV boards who took everything the prosecution "claimed" as gospel, but even some of the most ardent of them had to admit that the way this was handled made the DA and his team lookk pretty stupid, at least. |
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LALAKE
Star Player
Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Posts: 2138
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, I remember explaining that to idiots in detail, even to the point of giving them the links posted above. They have their minds made up anyway that he said it. Then, they said.."If he didn't do it, why doesn't he come out and deny that he said it?'', Like they would believe him anyway. They would just say he is lying and continue to hate. Again, damned either way.....I believe that it was BS and if it was me, I would have probably say that that was not true, but he was still under the civil piece of it so he probably couldn't talk about it when asked on television. Hell, what SuperHead wrote in her book was much worse and much more public...... |
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vanexelent
Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 30081
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Yes, I am hot, in fact I'm hot as hell. I'm sick and tired of hearing the same ole-same ole about Tubby. Then I gotta come on here and get bashed for sticking up for Kobe? Yeah, I'm gonna let you know what I think about that. As far as Snaq, all I hear on TV and radio is from his perspective when I know both good and bad. If you wanna call it "judging" then that's on you. You're the hypocrite cause your "judging" Kobe and his Colorado issues. So don't go there with me. I know Kobe's not perfect and made mistakes just like everybody else but to some he has to be the most hated. But regardless, this is a message board and I will be all over hear posting WHATEVER I WANT.
I'm not a hot-head, I'm a Divaaaaaa! |
ClassyTee you sound like a bad episode of Jerry Springer. You do know the '90's are over right?
Fact is you were never bashed for "sticking up for Kobe". You just want to portray yourself as a victim here. The topic WAS Shaq, not Kobe. I never judged Kobe Bryant about his rape charges. You were the one that brought them up in the first place. I simply pointed out that that was a rather disruptive "behavior", that you are willing to over-look because "we all make mistakes." Shaq's behavior on the other hand, which didn't and doesn't involve allegations of rape, is irreconsilable for you. This is where I question your logic. |
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