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ocho
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 Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:21 am Post subject: |
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good point about caffeine. not to mention ritalin, adderall, and the countless other drugs we give our kids that imo are more hardcore than pot.
bottom line...and the issue that LALfan4life refuses to address (or the countless other points he refuses to address) is that people who want to keep pot illegal have made the decision that their personal and moral beliefs about the substance outweigh adult respsonsibility. period. they want to be able to control what everyone else does. that is unamerican and its wrong. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| LALfan4life wrote: |
Go check out Psych Info and type in Marijuana and the effects on high school age children. Marijuana is no damn joke and especially these days when the joints don’t even come pure anymore.
It is unfortunate that you can't hold a conversation without your immature attacks. Go educate yourself on drugs and how to hold an adult conversation I have educated you enough for one day.
Good luck the FACTS can be had if you want it. |
facts? you haven't supplied a single one. just your own warped, 1950's opinons. im glad you're not making laws. it's a shame you can even vote. you don't do much homework when it comes to deciding on an issue.
what have you educated me on? how ungrounded your arguments are? how you don't do any research? how you don't supply any facts? how you have no basis for what you say? how your thoughts and beliefs are outdated and with no factual evidence? how you wish to control the masses based on your own personal set of morals? how you wish to keep gangsters rich? how you wish to spend billions on a futile drug war?
i suppose i was educated. |
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JerryMagicKobe
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| LALfan4life wrote: | Now you want to equate eating chocolate and using drugs? You sure I'm the one who is "so far removed from reality?" How silly.
Speaking of educating. You might want to educate yourself on how many young people are affected by the use of marijuana. Young men and women who smoke marijuana are more likely to turn to harder drugs, alcohol and unprotected sex, which means- sexually transmitted disease, unwanted pregnancies, rape, abuse and death. They are more likely to struggle and or drop out of school. And this is just the fact on young people. I didn't discuss the effects regarding parents who smoke pot.
But, yes I know none of this matter as long as some are free to.... whatever it is you said. |
OK, then educate young people about acting sexually responsible.
Prosecute people for rape and abuse, and since jails aren't overcrowded with drug offenses, INCREASE their jail terms so they can't get out to hurt others. As for underage people, if marijuana were legal it would be more difficult to get because it would be REGULATED so that only adults could buy it. See, you want me to be educated about how many young people smoke it, when my point is that by regulating the sale, it would help PREVENT young people from buying it.
Think of it this way:
Do you smoke?
NO
Would you if it were legal?
NO
Why not?
(Whatever you answer here is the education you give to people so that they don't smoke).
See how personal responsibility works. |
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methdxman
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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Just take a look at the Netherlands: Weed use is basically legal there and people smoke less than they do in the States, because they are not a bunch of bozos.
The more you restrict people's freedoms the more they abusing them.
In Spain, kids usually start drinking early... but they usually never become binge drinkers. In the States? Everyone thinks it's cool so you see all these binge drinkers in college and stuff. It's ridiculous.
I'm American, but the U.S. could learn a lot from how Western Europe takes care of its people and keeps the people's best interests in mind. They call the U.S. the land of the free, but that's really horse crap. I think most people actually believe it, too. Compared with Saudi Arabia, sure, the U.S. is the land of the free, but compared with W. Europe, no way. |
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LALfan4life
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ocho
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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LALfan- you don't get it.
if you drink bleach it has negative effects. doesn't mean you should outlaw it. same with fast food, alcohol, cigarettes, high fructose corn syrup, trans fat and countless other things we ingest every single day. THE SOLUTION IS NOT TO OUTLAW IT.
make it legal. supply the masses with information and leave it up to responsible adults to make the right decision for themselves. make the punishments severe for abuse |
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ocho
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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LALfan- you don't get it.
if you drink bleach it has negative effects. doesn't mean you should outlaw it. same with fast food, alcohol, cigarettes, high fructose corn syrup, trans fat and countless other things we ingest every single day. THE SOLUTION IS NOT TO OUTLAW IT.
make it legal. supply the masses with information and leave it up to responsible adults to make the right decision for themselves. make the punishments severe for abuse |
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JerryMagicKobe
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| LALfan4life wrote: | For others who may be interested: There are many more publications that discuss the affects of marijuana use. The following focus mainly on adolescents and young adults:
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Which is exactly why, if legalized, they would be LESS LIKELY to be able to get it. Drugs are bad, and drugs in the hands of adolescents and young adults are not only bad, but can do permanent damage to their developing bodies and minds. BUT DRUGS ARE ILLEGAL NOW AND KIDS CAN GET THEM RELATIVELY EASILY BECAUSE THERE IS NO REGULATION. If they were legal, all of the street level dealers and distributors would be put out of business. Legalization workers EVERYWHERE it has been put into effect. It is the ONLY solution to the problem.
From your cited references:
Some 60% of participants had used cannabis by the age of 20
So, according to the law, we should arrest 60% of people in AMERICA.
Also, the studies can't judge causation. They connect sexual intercourse with marijuana use, they conect dropping out of high school with marijuana use, and they connect depression with marijuana use, but NOWHWERE DO THEY SAY THAT IF YOU SMOKE MARIJUANA IT WILL CAUSE YOU TO HAVE SEX, DROP OUT AND BE DEPRESSED.
It makes sense that those who are prone to those behaviors due to OTHER CAUSES (poor parenting the primary cause), are also prone to drink and do drugs. Marijuana can't cause behavior that was already exhibited prior to someone taking it. In fact, drug use, depression, poor school performance, and promiscuity have exactly the same cause. The cause is a lack or education, lack or oversight (regulation if you will) and lack of parental consequences. (See, right back to educate, regulate and tax)
Rather than blaming marijuana for these problems, you need to find out why some kids pick up the pipe, and some don't. It is always the parent's fault, but it much easier for those same parents to blame marijuana. They have been doing it for years.
Last edited by JerryMagicKobe on Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ocho
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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i don't know about you guys...but when i was in high school...it was WAYYYYYYYY easier to get pot than booze.
to get booze i had to find someone older to buy it for me which was rare...or i had to find someone with a fake ID and convince them to buy it for me. then when i finally got a fake ID myself, i had to find a place that would accept it because a lot of merchants in my area were strict on IDs.
for weed i just...called my friend. |
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lakers0505
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| da ocho wrote: | i don't know about you guys...but when i was in high school...it was WAYYYYYYYY easier to get pot than booze.
to get booze i had to find someone older to buy it for me which was rare...or i had to find someone with a fake ID and convince them to buy it for me. then when i finally got a fake ID myself, i had to find a place that would accept it because a lot of merchants in my area were strict on IDs.
for weed i just...called my friend. |
still is...thats because its legal and guarded heavily. U can jus walk up too a teller and cash for a 6 pack. Its a more complicated process if your underage.. |
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Phil
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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I'm getting into this late and I've spent 36 years working in the substance abuse field. For the first decade and a half I remember myself and many of my co-workers saying people that were for the legalization of drugs were insane. Then studies starting coming out that showed the generation with the highest alcoholism rate was the generation that learned their attitudes about alcohol during the prohibition years. Then, what State of our Union has the highest alcoholism rate per capita? If you remeber and know it's Utah you probably work/ed in the substance abuse field.
Slowly the research has shown conclusively. Make a substance illegal and you assure it will increase in use dramatically. it will make the users criminals and contrie that produce it will be ruled by the "lords of the fields" where it's produced.
With the decriminalization of marijuana it's use is way down. No longer for the slick hip and cool it's a useful drug for the terminally ill in most peoples minds.
If you've never seen "Traffic", easily the best movie/documentary on drugs it should be required to be seen before anyone avers an opinion on the topic.
I'm 34 years in recovery from alcoholism and drug addiction. the difference in addicts coming into the programs now versus 20 years ago is dramatic. Most addicts had 'done time" then and thier attitudes towards authority was hardened to make them anti-social and poor candidates for recovery. Now days people come in without the attitude and with their families and still social in their behavior. They recover at a much higher rate.
Cigarettes are the real drug that kills us and causes billions to society.
Almost 500, 000 die yearly. Alcohol kills 50-60 thosand. All the drugs combined don't appoach what alcohol does.
Gotta go, my wife calls.  |
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Drifts
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Phil wrote: | I'm getting into this late and I've spent 36 years working in the substance abuse field. For the first decade and a half I remember myself and many of my co-workers saying people that were for the legalization of drugs were insane. Then studies starting coming out that showed the generation with the highest alcoholism rate was the generation that learned their attitudes about alcohol during the prohibition years. Then, what State of our Union has the highest alcoholism rate per capita? If you remeber and know it's Utah you probably work/ed in the substance abuse field.
Slowly the research has shown conclusively. Make a substance illegal and you assure it will increase in use dramatically. it will make the users criminals and contrie that produce it will be ruled by the "lords of the fields" where it's produced.
With the decriminalization of marijuana it's use is way down. No longer for the slick hip and cool it's a useful drug for the terminally ill in most peoples minds.
If you've never seen "Traffic", easily the best movie/documentary on drugs it should be required to be seen before anyone avers an opinion on the topic.
I'm 34 years in recovery from alcoholism and drug addiction. the difference in addicts coming into the programs now versus 20 years ago is dramatic. Most addicts had 'done time" then and thier attitudes towards authority was hardened to make them anti-social and poor candidates for recovery. Now days people come in without the attitude and with their families and still social in their behavior. They recover at a much higher rate.
Cigarettes are the real drug that kills us and causes billions to society.
Almost 500, 000 die yearly. Alcohol kills 50-60 thosand. All the drugs combined don't appoach what alcohol does.
Gotta go, my wife calls. |
why's that? yeah, because you can easily buy them in stores near you.
It's a sad age when 15 year olds are able to casually walk to a "weed store" with a fake ID and buy drugs legally.
_________________
"Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it." |
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Phil
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Drifts wrote: | | Phil wrote: | I'm getting into this late and I've spent 36 years working in the substance abuse field. For the first decade and a half I remember myself and many of my co-workers saying people that were for the legalization of drugs were insane. Then studies starting coming out that showed the generation with the highest alcoholism rate was the generation that learned their attitudes about alcohol during the prohibition years. Then, what State of our Union has the highest alcoholism rate per capita? If you remeber and know it's Utah you probably work/ed in the substance abuse field.
Slowly the research has shown conclusively. Make a substance illegal and you assure it will increase in use dramatically. it will make the users criminals and contrie that produce it will be ruled by the "lords of the fields" where it's produced.
With the decriminalization of marijuana it's use is way down. No longer for the slick hip and cool it's a useful drug for the terminally ill in most peoples minds.
If you've never seen "Traffic", easily the best movie/documentary on drugs it should be required to be seen before anyone avers an opinion on the topic.
I'm 34 years in recovery from alcoholism and drug addiction. the difference in addicts coming into the programs now versus 20 years ago is dramatic. Most addicts had 'done time" then and thier attitudes towards authority was hardened to make them anti-social and poor candidates for recovery. Now days people come in without the attitude and with their families and still social in their behavior. They recover at a much higher rate.
Cigarettes are the real drug that kills us and causes billions to society.
Almost 500, 000 die yearly. Alcohol kills 50-60 thosand. All the drugs combined don't appoach what alcohol does.
Gotta go, my wife calls. |
why's that? yeah, because you can easily buy them in stores near you.
It's a sad age when 15 year olds are able to casually walk to a "weed store" with a fake ID and buy drugs legally. |
There are laws and it's still considered "against the empire" for teens to smoke. Add to that the highly psychological and addictive nature of cigarettes and their lethality and that's probably most of the answer.
One of the things that made cigarettes have mystic though was that many States banned them. We have turned the focus from preaching to education and cigarette smoking is way, way down in the last 2 decades. Making them illegal would not have helped.
Last edited by Phil on Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Drifts
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| STiG909 wrote: | victimless crime, YES
BTW, the real reason it's illegal is because the government is making way too much money off taxing cigarettes. You don't get pot addicts like you do nicotine addicts. Keeping marijuana illegal means more cigarette sells and smokers. If they legalize it they know they'd still lose out to the dealers because it's not like you'd be able to buy some good medical quality herb over the counter at AMPM. More people would rather buy a pack of cigarettes than a nick of stress. I don't care about it being legalized because I'm still going to buy it, smoke it, and sometimes even grow it despite what the government does. If you only carry around a few grams the pigs can't do anything but write you a citation, just don't be stupid and give them reasons to believe you're distributing it. |
what makes you think Marlboro won't make MJ Lights once it is legalized?
_________________
"Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it." |
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ocho
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Drifts wrote: |
why's that? yeah, because you can easily buy them in stores near you.
It's a sad age when 15 year olds are able to casually walk to a "weed store" with a fake ID and buy drugs legally. |
please. anyone who wants to smoke pot can get it anytime they want. every 15 year old who wants pot doesn't need to go to a store with a fake ID....because it's actually EASIER than going to that trouble. |
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KOBE 2.0
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Location: Los Angeles, California
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| da ocho wrote: | | please. anyone who wants to smoke pot can get it anytime they want. every 15 year old who wants pot doesn't need to go to a store with a fake ID....because it's actually EASIER than going to that trouble. |
Here's my opinion on this issue whoever loves to smoke weed wants to mess up there life am i speaking for everyone else? no but i'm making sure no one on this forum is dumb enough to light up a weed and act like there being cool when in reality you're messing up you're life. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| KOBE 2.0 wrote: | | da ocho wrote: | | please. anyone who wants to smoke pot can get it anytime they want. every 15 year old who wants pot doesn't need to go to a store with a fake ID....because it's actually EASIER than going to that trouble. |
Here's my opinion on this issue whoever loves to smoke weed wants to mess up there life am i speaking for everyone else? no but i'm making sure no one on this forum is dumb enough to light up a weed and act like there being cool when in reality you're messing up you're life. |
you do realize punctuation exists right? you're aware of it as a concept?
you just made one giant sweeping generalization. there are millions of successful people who enjoy marijuana in moderation while using it in a responsible way. it's no different than having a drink. |
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KOBE 2.0
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| da ocho wrote: | you do realize punctuation exists right? you're aware of it as a concept?
you just made one giant sweeping generalization. there are millions of successful people who enjoy marijuana in moderation while using it in a responsible way. it's no different than having a drink. |
Not everyone smokes weed for health reasons they smoke weed to mess it up. how many people in this world actually sell drugs like weed and cocaine in health stores? |
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ocho
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| KOBE 2.0 wrote: | | da ocho wrote: | you do realize punctuation exists right? you're aware of it as a concept?
you just made one giant sweeping generalization. there are millions of successful people who enjoy marijuana in moderation while using it in a responsible way. it's no different than having a drink. |
Not everyone smokes weed for health reasons they smoke weed to mess it up. how many people in this world actually sell drugs like weed and cocaine in health stores? |
you.
don't.
make.
any.
sense. |
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Phil
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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Live and let live. Free to decide for yourself as long as it doesn't hurt others.  |
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Phil
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| KOBE 2.0 wrote: | | da ocho wrote: | you do realize punctuation exists right? you're aware of it as a concept?
you just made one giant sweeping generalization. there are millions of successful people who enjoy marijuana in moderation while using it in a responsible way. it's no different than having a drink. |
Not everyone smokes weed for health reasons they smoke weed to mess it up. how many people in this world actually sell drugs like weed and cocaine in health stores? |
Not in health stores, they have their own poisons if you have listened to the news. You can get Marinol (pure THC, the active ingrediant in marijuana) from your Psychitrist. When you go under anethesia in the operating room it's usually a drug very simular to Cocaine. |
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JerryMagicKobe
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Drifts wrote: | | Phil wrote: | I'm getting into this late and I've spent 36 years working in the substance abuse field. For the first decade and a half I remember myself and many of my co-workers saying people that were for the legalization of drugs were insane. Then studies starting coming out that showed the generation with the highest alcoholism rate was the generation that learned their attitudes about alcohol during the prohibition years. Then, what State of our Union has the highest alcoholism rate per capita? If you remeber and know it's Utah you probably work/ed in the substance abuse field.
Slowly the research has shown conclusively. Make a substance illegal and you assure it will increase in use dramatically. it will make the users criminals and contrie that produce it will be ruled by the "lords of the fields" where it's produced.
With the decriminalization of marijuana it's use is way down. No longer for the slick hip and cool it's a useful drug for the terminally ill in most peoples minds.
If you've never seen "Traffic", easily the best movie/documentary on drugs it should be required to be seen before anyone avers an opinion on the topic.
I'm 34 years in recovery from alcoholism and drug addiction. the difference in addicts coming into the programs now versus 20 years ago is dramatic. Most addicts had 'done time" then and thier attitudes towards authority was hardened to make them anti-social and poor candidates for recovery. Now days people come in without the attitude and with their families and still social in their behavior. They recover at a much higher rate.
Cigarettes are the real drug that kills us and causes billions to society.
Almost 500, 000 die yearly. Alcohol kills 50-60 thosand. All the drugs combined don't appoach what alcohol does.
Gotta go, my wife calls. |
why's that? yeah, because you can easily buy them in stores near you.
It's a sad age when 15 year olds are able to casually walk to a "weed store" with a fake ID and buy drugs legally. |
It is much more difficult to get a fake ID today than it was 20 years ago whem I was underage. Yes, if someone wants to break the law and create or buy a fake ID, and then break another law by using it to purchase a substance while underage, and then break another law when consuming it underage, then they could probably get their hands on it. What is the answer? You prosecute them for the three crimes that they committed, and make drug education (in whatever form) a mandatory part of their sentenance. But it would deter the 90% of the kids who don't want to break all of those laws for weed. |
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JerryMagicKobe
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Drifts wrote: |
what makes you think Marlboro won't make MJ Lights once it is legalized? |
And what if they do? Cigarettes are legal. If you don't want 'em, don't smoke 'em. But if I want to drink 4 Crown on the Rocks, eat my steak and baked potato, then smoke a Camel outside on my patio, don't tell me I can't.
Inform me of the consequences, tax me to death, and make sure I am a consenting adult, but please, if you believe in anything our country was founded on, don't tell me I can't. Same for weed. Same for alcohol.
And the same for caffeine. Interesting that you are against the legalization of marijuana, when your signature glorifies another mind altering substance. |
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JerryMagicKobe
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Alos, let's compare weed to another "societal ill" - gambling. We all heard about the terrible consequences of gambling - bookies breaking your legs and "Sopranos-type" tactics ruining lives. But sitting in a casino in Vegas is about the safest place on the planet. Why, because there is nothing but consenting adults being provided with a regulated and controlled environment in which they are free to play games of chance, provided that they do so according to the rules of the house and gamble money that they have on hand.
Are there sometimes people who lose too much and it ruins their life? Yes
Are there family members who are negatively affected by that? Yes
Is there any societal benefit to gambling, other than leisure? No
But it works when it is legal, and when it is illegal it is a mess of crime, violence, loan-sharking, and extortion. It burdens the criminal justice system, it by-passes govenment regulation, and taxation, and does nothing to deter gambling itself.
Same with drugs. Legalization, regulation, taxation and education is the ONLY thing that works. If you really want to help keep kids off of drugs, then you have to control it to put street dealers out of business, regulate it to sell only to consenting adults, tax it to raise money for education, and educate kids to the REAL consequences of drug use.
Or how about prostitution. Legalization in Nevada has cleaned up a very dirty business. The "cat-houses" regularly test the girls for STDs, require condoms, prohibit drug use, and ensure a safe place for censenting adults. Again, if it is legal, it doesn't mean it is morally right for the girl or the guy, but for those who want to do it, regulation, taxation, and education work again.
Last edited by JerryMagicKobe on Mon Jul 10, 2006 5:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Laker_Leo
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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What one does in the privacy of his/her own home is their business. Live and let live. Should it be legal?
Absolutely. |
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