About giving Shaq the ball

Wino · Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:58 am Post subject: About giving Shaq the ball

This is hilarious!!

Why in the heck should anyone give Shaq the ball??

No offense, (no pun intended), but the guy is too slow to get in position to make a good shot. Shaq CAN'T find his own shot, someone else HAS to get it to him at the right moment. He can't do what he did when he was in his prime, spin move and power dunk. By the time he gets near the basket, the ball has been stripped or he gets fouled. And we know how good he is at "making it when he needs to"!!?? Yeah right!!

5 points!!!!! Wow!! He is getting completely outplayed by every bigman from Dallas! Dampier and Nowitzki both outplayed him. Mourning outplayed him!

He sure is making Jerry Buss look smart right now!

And how would you like to be Riles right now? Hey only 3 more years to go with this busted team Riles, then you can dump the contract that killed you!

Oh, well, I had to get this off my chest. I suppose the next two games could change things but I don't think so.
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LakersRGolden · Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:08 am Post subject:

Socks · Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:45 am Post subject:

Yeah, it's true that he can't score in the same ways he used to but Miami's only hope is to still pound it through him.

Miami just doesn't have any other options. You've still gotta give Shaq some respect around the basket, and Dallas has been doubling him. Shaq is a great passer out of the post and they've gotta work it through him to get other guys open shots. Problem for Miami is they don't have great jump shooters. That's why it was so interesting how Riley restructured this team. Eddie Jones and Damon Jones were both good jump shooters, where as guys like Walker and Willimas are just so-so. And we all know jump shooting is not D-wade's strength, though he can create his own shot.

You're right though, Shaq's game is declining very very fast and Miami is gonna be stuck with that huge contract and Riley is stuck coaching a team that will always be expected to win a championship and always fall short. He deserves it.

Lakers 71-72 · Star Player Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 5059

Doesn't Riley's 10 year contract with the Heat expire after this season?

(I can't remember if he signed an extension last year.)

For all we know, after the finals Riley bails...

NoMoreGame7s · Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:54 am Post subject:

LakerJam · Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:59 am Post subject:

If you're saying Shaq is too slow, you haven't been watching him play the last month. He looks much better, is light on his feet and has shown some quickness and explosiveness. He's not 2001 Shaq, but he's also not old and slow, looking like Patrick Ewing Shaq, either. We are seeing the old, "if you don't feed me the ball, I won't rebound the ball", though.

I actually think what's happening in Miami also shows how wrong everyone was about Kobe and his perceived selfishness. It's proof positive that Kobe made Shaq better, just like Shaq made Kobe better - only Kobe never got the credit Shaq did. Kobe knew how to feed the big dog and help him get his shots, while Wade doesn't do that well at all. None of those guys does that.

I also gotta wonder about Pat Riley's "greatness" as a coach, given that his "adjustments" haven't been and he can't seem to figure out how to get Shaq the ball, let alone in any position to be successful with it. After all, this isn't the first time Shaq has been double teamed, yet I've never seen teammates so inept at getting the ball in the post to him. That's coaching and Riles is being completely out-classed by Avery Johnson here.

I'm not ready to say the series is over, but I'm very curious to see how Miami responds on its own home court. They should have much more energy.

KoolMo · Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:59 am Post subject:

PamelaBridgette · Rookie Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 11

The fact that he is missing his free throws soooo terribly is messing with his head, I think the most. Yes, he does look faster on the court, in spurts, and he looks leaner. But like fighters who try and rush getting into shape before a big fight - they too can lose something. He looked fabulous when he walked out in that first game, but I wonder if it took a toll on his stamina. Free throw situation is really messing with his fragile, fragile mind - because it was definitely Kobe that had the strong will.

LakerJam · Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:30 pm Post subject:

I'm sure that's true to some extent, Pam, no doubt about it, but he's also not getting the ball enough, either; and when he does get the ball, it often requires him to lunge out of position to try to get it.

Shaq's definitely not who he was, but he also no longer has that teammate that helps him look as good as he did, too. The combination of those 2 factors has Shaq getting a grand total of 16 FGAs in 2 games - and he's 10 of 16 in total.

Has me smiling from ear to ear.

astrallionheart · Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:09 pm Post subject:

I believe Phil made an adjustment in the Minnesota series in 03 by putting Shaq in the high post post. They used him as bait and opened up the driving lanes, and making them pay every time they doubled, giving guys open layups. I wonder if riles would try something like that.

Socks · Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:15 pm Post subject:

^^^

The other guys would still have to hit their shots, which has been the big problem for Miami. Shaq has been passing well out of the double and the open man just can seem to hit shots. If they did, the D would have to sag out better, which would open things up for Shaq more.

Tough, no easy answers for the Heat - they just need to execute better, and that's the tough part. I agree with LakerJam, no one seems to get the ball to Shaq in a good position to score, but they really need him to be a weapon to have any chance. And we've all seen that the more involved Shaq is on the offensive side of things, the more he rebounds and plays defense.

hoopschick29 · Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:37 pm Post subject:

No one was better at getting Shaq the ball than Kobe. No one. And Shaq's limited range of 3-5 feet from the basket combined with the ever-growing aggressive zones has put Shaq in a position where he is more and more dependent on someone to get him the ball in just the right spots. Remember, Shaq doesn't have a finesse game. So when he receives an entry pass, it has to be at an angle where he can make a power move to get the look he wants. This is the problem his current teammates are having with getting him the ball.
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Addicus · Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:13 pm Post subject:

Addicus · Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:17 pm Post subject:

I have a question - Could Wade be effective if he were the man and had to see the defensive schemes that Kobe, TMac, Pierce, AI and KG face?

After watching this series, I'm thinking no. He is a very good compliment to Shaq, but all his success has come as a partner not the focus. His rookie year Lamar and Caron were getting all the attention when he broke out and the last 2 years it's been Shaq. He doesn't seem to have the mid/long range game to combat the zone.

Also - that Miami team with CB, LO and Wade would have been dope with a healthy Zo. Scary!
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hoopschick29 · Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:22 pm Post subject:

^^^ If Shaq is gonna talk crap (and he's talked plenty), he needs to man up and take his lumps when he doesn't get the job done. He went out like a chump. But that's been Shaq's problem his whole career -- he can dish it out all day long, but he can't take it.
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hoopschick29 · Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:26 pm Post subject:

Socks · Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:28 pm Post subject:

It's hard to judge Wade since he hasn't had the opportunity to be The Man on his own - people said the same thing about Kobe. That said, if I had to guess, I'd say it'd be pretty hard. He just doesn't have any consistency on his jumper, and that would make it very rough on him. Imagine Wade on the current Laker team instead of Kobe. There's no inside scoring presence and no true second option to take the heat off, so you could play off of him and dare him to take the jumper all day.

Walter Sobchak · Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:48 pm Post subject:

As Riley himself has asserted, Shaq hasn't really been drawing double teams recently, and the fact that Avery Johnson is giving the Heat that look on defense is really throwing them off and they are having a hard time adjusting to it. Because of that, it's hard to say that Wade's game is really a result of Shaq drawing so much attention, because this year he really hasn't. We'll see plenty of what Wade is capable of as "The Man" because, well he already is "The Man" for the Heat.

Regarding Shaq not getting enough touches, I don't think that's the problem either. Dampier said after Game 1 that he reviewed the tape and that Shaq got 30 touches and passed it back out 12 times, so how many more touches does the guy need? After last night Riley said it's not about the touches, it's about the fact that Shaq's being doubled. The Mavs are doing a great job of rotating out of the double teams, and more importantly, of pressuring the ball so the entry pass to Shaq is difficult and often late. The only thing the Heat can really hope for is that their outside shooters catch fire and maybe pull the double away from Shaq and that at the same time Shaq starts hitting his free throws; but even then that won't cure the sieve that the Heat defense has been on the other end. Even if the Heat offense does get on track, then that'll just mean they're in a shootout with Dallas, which won't guarantee Heat victories either. Even still, a sweep is plenty embarrassing, regardless of how close the 4 losses were.
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LakerLanny · Retired Number Joined: 24 Oct 2001 Posts: 47580

Why would you keep feeding the Big Dog the ball when the stupid mutt keeps slobbering all over it and dropping it through the same hole in the fence that it can't reach over and over again?

I am afraid Big Snaq Dog is more bark than bite at this point.
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JerryMagicKobe · Moderator Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 15100

SenorJefe · Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:59 am Post subject:

TIMMM · Starting Rotation Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 282

shaq got 30 touches in game 1. thats a lot of touches

hoopschick29 · Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:52 am Post subject:

jwbrown77 · Star Player Joined: 21 Jun 2004 Posts: 3271

mike_dee23 · Franchise Player Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 11703

Shaq expects to get the ball without getting in good position. Whenever he moves, gets in position, he's unstoppable. I just don't think he's in good enough physical shape to do that for an entire game. This downtrend began in 04 as a Laker and has just continued to where it is today... yes, Jerry Buss is a smart man.