Zidane's head butt
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Polish_Bastard
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:16 am    Post subject:

Right on 8750. Players tak sh*t to each other on the field all of the time, provoking others is just part of the game. If you can't take it then you're just weak and have no one to blame but yourself. By the way it kinda looked that Zidane lost it by his reaction after the missed header, far too emotional for his standards.
Would you applaud Kobe getting up after the clothline, flattening Bell with a haymaker and getting suspended till the end of the series?
In the end France lost most of their penalty shooters (Zidane, Henry, Vieira...) and it showed.

Oh, and skumbag, stick these remarks about Europeans up your ass. If you applaud people hitting others for making disparaging comments about their ethnicity then I suppose you should now hit yourself.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:31 am    Post subject:

Oh did I just a Euro nerve or what? Oh sorry, lol.

I think in Arabic culture, insulting your family is a very big deal, add on top of that you put in a racial slur, then most people will explode. You bet the Italian knew this when making the comment.

It's worse than Raja Bell clothelining Kobe. Something more like (hypotethical) some white guy like Mike Miller clothlining Kobe and then yelling "how ya like that n* whore". At that point, it's more than a verbal insult. As a man, sometimes you have got to stand up even if it means it'll cost your team a title.

What I don't understand is this. The ref didn't see the play. The ref helpers didn't see it either. It's only that one of the helpers saw the replay on the screen did he then notify the ref, which of course drew the red car. I mean if it's a "late call", then don't eject the guy. But of course the ref helper is now saying he saw it with his own eyes without the replay, umm ok, then why did it take him so long to make the call? yeah right.


Last edited by skumbag on Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:38 am    Post subject:

Where is that guy with the Zidane Avatar in Marvel VS. Capcom style, that thing is awesome...
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:49 am    Post subject:

I'm reading some Italian newspapers recount of the event, and man their newspapers are like supermarket tabloids. Jeesh is there anything that Italians do without embelillishing like Hollywood papperazzis. Goes to show you, flopping does help. Sorry folks, the only thing "viscious" about the incident is the Matterazzi dropping like a puss. Yes, that was more viscious than the headbutt itself. Agree?

But unfortunately this ain't much of a condolence for the French team though. Well I guess they can kinda take comfort that the Italian team is being investigated majorly for illegal match fixing with the refs and the mafia, and some players might end up in jail. I dunno. Haha.
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8750
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:16 am    Post subject:

skumbag, please!...
1. not one italian player is involved in fixing matches... not one player could end in jail, simply because no one of them is accused of anything... it's only about some managers... so, please, shut up!
2. mafia?! where in the hell you read that mafia is involved in this scandal?!... absolute (bleep)... so, please, shut up!
2. i'll be in l.a. in august... some day if you want i can headbutt you.... when you hit the ground, then maybe you'll understand about flopping or not... so, please, shut up!
3. two years ago at the european championship italian player francesco totti spitted agains the danish player paulsen... totti was ejected and suspended... everybody in italy said that ejection and suspension were perfectly right, and no one asked what paulsen could have said to totti... the french team is whining, as they always do... so, please, shut up!
4. i repeat... zidane, wonderful player, was ejected twelve times in his career... he handbutted a german player, he trampled on an arabian player, and so on... so, please, shut up!
5. why don't you ask what zidane said to materazzi in their trash talking?... so, please, shut up!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:17 pm    Post subject:

skumbag wrote:


I think in Arabic culture, insulting your family is a very big deal, add on top of that you put in a racial slur, then most people will explode. You bet the Italian knew this when making the comment.

It's worse than Raja Bell clothelining Kobe. Something more like (hypotethical) some white guy like Mike Miller clothlining Kobe and then yelling "how ya like that n* whore". At that point, it's more than a verbal insult. As a man, sometimes you have got to stand up even if it means it'll cost your team a title.



Sorry, but this post is as weak as it gets. Your math is way off, also. When does a racial slur become equivalent to a clothesline, PLUS a racial slur? Because the guy is Arabic? Give me a break. Zidane was a total idiot for doing what he did. Defending it is silly.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:31 pm    Post subject:

8750 wrote:
skumbag, please!...
1. not one italian player is involved in fixing matches... not one player could end in jail, simply because no one of them is accused of anything... it's only about some managers... so, please, shut up!
2. mafia?! where in the hell you read that mafia is involved in this scandal?!... absolute (bleep)... so, please, shut up!
2. i'll be in l.a. in august... some day if you want i can headbutt you.... when you hit the ground, then maybe you'll understand about flopping or not... so, please, shut up!
3. two years ago at the european championship italian player francesco totti spitted agains the danish player paulsen... totti was ejected and suspended... everybody in italy said that ejection and suspension were perfectly right, and no one asked what paulsen could have said to totti... the french team is whining, as they always do... so, please, shut up!
4. i repeat... zidane, wonderful player, was ejected twelve times in his career... he handbutted a german player, he trampled on an arabian player, and so on... so, please, shut up!
5. why don't you ask what zidane said to materazzi in their trash talking?... so, please, shut up!


Ur an Italian fan my friend, that's where the bias comes in. First of all the French were the better squad, anyone will tell you that. Second of all what Zidane did was totally not cool. Quit whining, your team won the cup when they did not deserve it, what else do you want? They faced teams like Ukraine and Australia. Their true test was Germany which they won by playing better then the Germans in the last 2 minutes. The French beat Spain, Brazil, Portugal. The French were the better team and they deserved to win. A series of unfortunate events such as Viera's injury, Henry's cramps, and the headbutt, caused the Italians to win. Actually the Italians didn't win, the French lost like the way one poster said above. DO NOT talk about Zidane's past and how hes been ejected 12 times, because you will lose. Zidane is one of the most respected players in FIFA and his ejection history is outweighed by the respect he has gained. He lost control of himself because obviously ur Italian boy said something unfriendly. Its sad Zidane will be remembered by just this event, but what can you do. He was going down as a legend but one stupid move ruined it. Materazzi wont even be a quarter of the player Zidane was, but he was clever enough to win the title for his nation. At the end of the day, the Italians won, Zidane made a huge mistake and there is no way you can defend it sadly. We'll find out in a weeks time about what exactly happened.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:07 pm    Post subject:

snipes, the funny thing is that i'm not a chauvinist italian at all, and i like english soccer much more than italian... but i can't stand the very stupid things that someone posted here...
let me disagree... french team had better players, but they were not the better team... even in the second half when they played much better than italy, they never had great shots or scoring situations... defense is a part of the game, you know...
totally agree with you that zidane will be remembered as a legend of soccer... one of the greatest players of this era... but twelve ejections are twelve ejections... everybody knows that zizou is not a balanced person... he always overreacts...
materazzi is a warrior, and i like warriors...
now it seems that the trash talking between him and zidane was very banal... materazzi holds zizou's jersey... zidane arrogantly says if you want my jersey, i'll give it to you at the end... and materazzi says instead your jersey, give me that w... of your sister... during a game, i listened and told much worse things...
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:21 pm    Post subject:

Instead of headbutting the cat, he should of brushed his shoulders off. Win the game and if he feels like giving the dude last words talk trash then. But if he had kept his cool, brushed it off, won the game came and shake the Italian guy's hand, now that, is a great ending. Doing something your opponent is not expecting, thats class! Don't matter what he said or done, that game was for all the marbles, suck it up, thats what leaders do.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:23 pm    Post subject:

I wanted to add that, when Raja clotheslined Kobe and how Kobe reacted afterwards, I frickin loved it. He just brushed it off like "fool, you can't break me!" Just like the Italian dude, Raja wanted him to break, but it didn't work.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:42 pm    Post subject:

casH wrote:
I wanted to add that, when Raja clotheslined Kobe and how Kobe reacted afterwards, I frickin loved it. He just brushed it off like "fool, you can't break me!" Just like the Italian dude, Raja wanted him to break, but it didn't work.


Yea, but that type of comment to Zidane, considering his culture, background and current social climate is similar to Brad miller grinding throughout a game and at the end saying "(bleep) your n*gg*r mother you rapist b*tch"

People here say trash talk goes on all the time, sure it does - but there is typically un-written understand about what topics are fair game, even for trash talking.

Zidane should know what is at stake, but you can't be that surprised.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:26 pm    Post subject:

Zidane acted like an idiot, and it will end up costing him a big part of his legacy.

Winning the game is the best revenge. Killing the guy with his bare hands wouldn't be half as sweet.

I hope the headbutt, weak as it was, was worth it. He'll be second guessing that unfortunate desicion for the rest of his life.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:28 pm    Post subject:

WATCH THIS


http://content.ytmnd.com/content/1/2/5/125e067ac32841a86fc20e71015e584b.gif
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:39 pm    Post subject:

rracer99 wrote:
casH wrote:
I wanted to add that, when Raja clotheslined Kobe and how Kobe reacted afterwards, I frickin loved it. He just brushed it off like "fool, you can't break me!" Just like the Italian dude, Raja wanted him to break, but it didn't work.


Yea, but that type of comment to Zidane, considering his culture, background and current social climate is similar to Brad miller grinding throughout a game and at the end saying "(bleep) your n*gg*r mother you rapist b*tch"

People here say trash talk goes on all the time, sure it does - but there is typically un-written understand about what topics are fair game, even for trash talking.

Zidane should know what is at stake, but you can't be that surprised.


What a cop out, they way people are talking about his culture and background. Dude, he's just mentally weak. Someone could have said those very things to Kobe, and he would not have snapped like that. He's too focused, too in control, the way a true champion should be. Zidane showed he was more Artest than Kobe. For the earlier post to say that you have to stand up to certain things, to be a man when challenged, title be damned...you've got to be kidding. That's some serious caveman mentality. You have the hopes and dreams of a nation, not to mention a lifetime of work by all of your teammates and coaches, and you are going to throw it all away to stand up to one insult? Straight Neanderthal move there.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:05 pm    Post subject:

Tony Montana wrote:
rracer99 wrote:
casH wrote:
I wanted to add that, when Raja clotheslined Kobe and how Kobe reacted afterwards, I frickin loved it. He just brushed it off like "fool, you can't break me!" Just like the Italian dude, Raja wanted him to break, but it didn't work.


Yea, but that type of comment to Zidane, considering his culture, background and current social climate is similar to Brad miller grinding throughout a game and at the end saying "(bleep) your n*gg*r mother you rapist b*tch"

People here say trash talk goes on all the time, sure it does - but there is typically un-written understand about what topics are fair game, even for trash talking.

Zidane should know what is at stake, but you can't be that surprised.


What a cop out, they way people are talking about his culture and background. Dude, he's just mentally weak. Someone could have said those very things to Kobe, and he would not have snapped like that. He's too focused, too in control, the way a true champion should be. Zidane showed he was more Artest than Kobe. For the earlier post to say that you have to stand up to certain things, to be a man when challenged, title be damned...you've got to be kidding. That's some serious caveman mentality. You have the hopes and dreams of a nation, not to mention a lifetime of work by all of your teammates and coaches, and you are going to throw it all away to stand up to one insult? Straight Neanderthal move there.


Exactly my thoughts! The best comeback would have been a victory.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:10 pm    Post subject:

Tony Montana wrote:
rracer99 wrote:
casH wrote:
I wanted to add that, when Raja clotheslined Kobe and how Kobe reacted afterwards, I frickin loved it. He just brushed it off like "fool, you can't break me!" Just like the Italian dude, Raja wanted him to break, but it didn't work.


Yea, but that type of comment to Zidane, considering his culture, background and current social climate is similar to Brad miller grinding throughout a game and at the end saying "(bleep) your n*gg*r mother you rapist b*tch"

People here say trash talk goes on all the time, sure it does - but there is typically un-written understand about what topics are fair game, even for trash talking.

Zidane should know what is at stake, but you can't be that surprised.


What a cop out, they way people are talking about his culture and background. Dude, he's just mentally weak. Someone could have said those very things to Kobe, and he would not have snapped like that. He's too focused, too in control, the way a true champion should be. Zidane showed he was more Artest than Kobe. For the earlier post to say that you have to stand up to certain things, to be a man when challenged, title be damned...you've got to be kidding. That's some serious caveman mentality. You have the hopes and dreams of a nation, not to mention a lifetime of work by all of your teammates and coaches, and you are going to throw it all away to stand up to one insult? Straight Neanderthal move there.


Sir, you talk like an arm chair general. Just maybe, maybe, for some people, ethnic pride and family pride means more than a title? Everything is so simple for your isn't it? Zidane probably reacted out of guttural instinct. I suggest you try to remove yourself from the comfort of your Americanism and imagine what it must be like for a son of an Algerian to be insulted like such. You probably will come back to your armchair general statement, "but title is sweet revenge". But for some people, their guttural response overides winninng a title. Racism often brings out the extreme response from people, and Zidane is one but not unique example.

And please don't tell me Kobe is strong minded after the Colorado crap.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:33 pm    Post subject:

skumbag wrote:
Tony Montana wrote:
rracer99 wrote:
casH wrote:
I wanted to add that, when Raja clotheslined Kobe and how Kobe reacted afterwards, I frickin loved it. He just brushed it off like "fool, you can't break me!" Just like the Italian dude, Raja wanted him to break, but it didn't work.


Yea, but that type of comment to Zidane, considering his culture, background and current social climate is similar to Brad miller grinding throughout a game and at the end saying "(bleep) your n*gg*r mother you rapist b*tch"

People here say trash talk goes on all the time, sure it does - but there is typically un-written understand about what topics are fair game, even for trash talking.

Zidane should know what is at stake, but you can't be that surprised.


What a cop out, they way people are talking about his culture and background. Dude, he's just mentally weak. Someone could have said those very things to Kobe, and he would not have snapped like that. He's too focused, too in control, the way a true champion should be. Zidane showed he was more Artest than Kobe. For the earlier post to say that you have to stand up to certain things, to be a man when challenged, title be damned...you've got to be kidding. That's some serious caveman mentality. You have the hopes and dreams of a nation, not to mention a lifetime of work by all of your teammates and coaches, and you are going to throw it all away to stand up to one insult? Straight Neanderthal move there.


Sir, you talk like an arm chair general. Just maybe, maybe, for some people, ethnic pride and family pride means more than a title? Everything is so simple for your isn't it? Zidane probably reacted out of guttural instinct. I suggest you try to remove yourself from the comfort of your Americanism and imagine what it must be like for a son of an Algerian to be insulted like such. You probably will come back to your armchair general statement, "but title is sweet revenge". But for some people, their guttural response overides winninng a title. Racism often brings out the extreme response from people, and Zidane is one but not unique example.

And please don't tell me Kobe is strong minded after the Colorado crap.


Oh please..

For some people their religion means enough to murder 1000s of people and cause a trillion dollars in damages

screw everybody who thinks strangers opinions or remarks are worth physical altercations

screw anyone and everyone who gets mad at me and wants to hurt me if I say something about their religion or draw a cartoon about some dead guy..

The moment you think violence is acceptable retribution for WORDS.. then you will go to hell.

********* BUT I personally want to kick the guys ass for being such a flopping jackass.. that was such a disgusting flop.. that is pathetic.. I would like to force him to play ice hockey and let someone give him a real hit
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:29 am    Post subject:

Ask any top-level player who is not French or Italian about what they hear on the field during games. There are no rules here, anything goes to get into the other guy's head. Zidane is a dumbass to react, plain and simple. In such a big game with so much at stake and only little time to go it's only rational to expect of him to keep his cool.
Players often react to unfair behaviour by opponents but the key is to do it in an intelligent way. If some guy roughs up the opposing goalkeeper after a cross than he usually gets a few hard fouls later in the game. When Holland failed to give up the ball when they should to Portugal, Deco just flattened the Dutch guy with a challenge. He showed the guy up getting a yellow card in process. Here you might argue if it was worth it, but getting a red never pays, you just fail the team in getting it. If Zidane really couldn't stop himsef from doing sth he could have pushed the guy to the ground and stood over him, that's a yellow. If his guttural response overrides winning a title he should have chosen a different line of work.
Oh, and stop speculating who was better even if they haven't won - losers always whine. And it's not like the referees needed video to see that, when you have 5 of them like in the World Cup one of them is bound to see sth, it just takes time to communicate.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:47 am    Post subject:

Materazzi admits insulting Zidane
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:45 am    Post subject:

it's exactly what i posted here yesterday... materazzi said instead of your shirt, give me that w.... of your sister... i repeat, during a game i listened and told much worse insults... much ado about nothing...
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:30 am    Post subject:

skumbag wrote:
Tony Montana wrote:
rracer99 wrote:
casH wrote:
I wanted to add that, when Raja clotheslined Kobe and how Kobe reacted afterwards, I frickin loved it. He just brushed it off like "fool, you can't break me!" Just like the Italian dude, Raja wanted him to break, but it didn't work.


Yea, but that type of comment to Zidane, considering his culture, background and current social climate is similar to Brad miller grinding throughout a game and at the end saying "(bleep) your n*gg*r mother you rapist b*tch"

People here say trash talk goes on all the time, sure it does - but there is typically un-written understand about what topics are fair game, even for trash talking.

Zidane should know what is at stake, but you can't be that surprised.


What a cop out, they way people are talking about his culture and background. Dude, he's just mentally weak. Someone could have said those very things to Kobe, and he would not have snapped like that. He's too focused, too in control, the way a true champion should be. Zidane showed he was more Artest than Kobe. For the earlier post to say that you have to stand up to certain things, to be a man when challenged, title be damned...you've got to be kidding. That's some serious caveman mentality. You have the hopes and dreams of a nation, not to mention a lifetime of work by all of your teammates and coaches, and you are going to throw it all away to stand up to one insult? Straight Neanderthal move there.


Sir, you talk like an arm chair general. Just maybe, maybe, for some people, ethnic pride and family pride means more than a title? Everything is so simple for your isn't it? Zidane probably reacted out of guttural instinct. I suggest you try to remove yourself from the comfort of your Americanism and imagine what it must be like for a son of an Algerian to be insulted like such. You probably will come back to your armchair general statement, "but title is sweet revenge". But for some people, their guttural response overides winninng a title. Racism often brings out the extreme response from people, and Zidane is one but not unique example.

And please don't tell me Kobe is strong minded after the Colorado crap.


Actually, Kobe is; to go out with thousands of people chanting "rapist" at your face, and to keep your cool and drop game winning shots is exactly why he is strong minded.

Your "gutteral" instinct argument proves my point. That was a straight Neatherthal move. Animal instinct. Pure stupidity.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:39 am    Post subject:

skumbag wrote:
Tony Montana wrote:
rracer99 wrote:
casH wrote:
I wanted to add that, when Raja clotheslined Kobe and how Kobe reacted afterwards, I frickin loved it. He just brushed it off like "fool, you can't break me!" Just like the Italian dude, Raja wanted him to break, but it didn't work.


Yea, but that type of comment to Zidane, considering his culture, background and current social climate is similar to Brad miller grinding throughout a game and at the end saying "(bleep) your n*gg*r mother you rapist b*tch"

People here say trash talk goes on all the time, sure it does - but there is typically un-written understand about what topics are fair game, even for trash talking.

Zidane should know what is at stake, but you can't be that surprised.


What a cop out, they way people are talking about his culture and background. Dude, he's just mentally weak. Someone could have said those very things to Kobe, and he would not have snapped like that. He's too focused, too in control, the way a true champion should be. Zidane showed he was more Artest than Kobe. For the earlier post to say that you have to stand up to certain things, to be a man when challenged, title be damned...you've got to be kidding. That's some serious caveman mentality. You have the hopes and dreams of a nation, not to mention a lifetime of work by all of your teammates and coaches, and you are going to throw it all away to stand up to one insult? Straight Neanderthal move there.


Sir, you talk like an arm chair general. Just maybe, maybe, for some people, ethnic pride and family pride means more than a title? Everything is so simple for your isn't it? Zidane probably reacted out of guttural instinct. I suggest you try to remove yourself from the comfort of your Americanism and imagine what it must be like for a son of an Algerian to be insulted like such. You probably will come back to your armchair general statement, "but title is sweet revenge". But for some people, their guttural response overides winninng a title. Racism often brings out the extreme response from people, and Zidane is one but not unique example.

And please don't tell me Kobe is strong minded after the Colorado crap.


So you're saying its okay to use physical altercations to react to somebody's verbal comment about you? If I had your mind of resolving things I think I might be dead or in jail right now.
I have ethnic pride, I have family pride, sht I have pride period, but I would just laugh if I was Zidane, if hes that sort of human being why does his opinion matter to me? I'll just laugh at his comment and laugh in his face when I win the game.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:59 am    Post subject:

This is what Matterrazzi has to say:

Quote:

"What's sure is that I never called him a terrorist: I am not cultured and I don't even know what an islamic terrorist is. My sole terrorist is her...," added Materazzi pointing at his 10-month-old daughter sleeping next to him during the interview.

"I certainly did not talk about Zidane's mother. For me, mothers are sacred," he concluded



Who is this guy kidding when he said he never heard of what an islamic
terrorist is. Yeah right.

I see that some of you have never experienced racism before. Let me say this, ethinic Algerians living in France is liken to the Mexicans in the US. They're perceived as lazy, baby bearers, welfare leeches over there much in the same way some conservatives in the US perceive the mexicans. And with the current global terrorism theme going on, Algerians are very sensitive to such racism.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong what Zidane did, but I'm saying that if I were in his position, I might have exploded too, and certainly can understand his feelings. I myself have gone through some racism all my life, but I recall one particular time in highschool football practice, with adrenaline flowing, a white guy made a joke about how big my nose is and that I'm taking up all his oxygen, well for some reason that did if for me (this guy had made some racial jab at me before) and I exploded with some punches and broke his nose as the rage took over me. I got suspended from school, got suspened from the team which I later quit anyway.

Was what I did wrong? Probably in the eyes of some.
But it sure felt good. When the adrenaline and the hate is flowing, people sometimes do have time to think and they just react. Like I said, Zidane did what his guts told him, he reacted!

and oh please spare the Neanderthal and sports ettiquette crap Tony Montana. Not everyone is going to take the non-violence approach ya know. I can tell you have never experienced racism much if at all. You talk like a man with high and ideal principles of what is and what is not, but probably have never lived much racism have you. Everything for you is either black or what isnt it? I'll bet racism is an abstract concept for you, something you read in books. You have a different set of values to which you subscribe. Same goes for me, same for a guy like Zidane. People just don't react out of nothing. They usually act out feelings. You may say Zidane was an idiot costing his team the title, but not all will agree with you as they have a different experience. Note, I'm not condemming or really condoning Zidane's action, but just saying that we shouldn't forget people's background when we judge their actions. That's all.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:04 am    Post subject:

casH wrote:

So you're saying its okay to use physical altercations to react to somebody's verbal comment about you? If I had your mind of resolving things I think I might be dead or in jail right now.
I have ethnic pride, I have family pride, sht I have pride period, but I would just laugh if I was Zidane, if hes that sort of human being why does his opinion matter to me? I'll just laugh at his comment and laugh in his face when I win the game.


I say people will react to events based on their experiences.

And are you saying it's ok to insult people verbally but not physically? Sorry pal, the minute you open your mouth to insult, an insult is an insult. A physical abuse, such as a punch, might be perceived as less damaging than a verbal one.

Like I said, for some people, winning a game might pale in comparison to a verbal insult. Can you possibly understand this concept?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:11 am    Post subject:

Trey wrote:


Oh please..

For some people their religion means enough to murder 1000s of people and cause a trillion dollars in damages




My observations from looking through the annals of "recorded history", it does appear that the religions that tend to draw the most blood for any reason tend to belong to the Judeo-Christian-Islam pillar isn't it?

You rarely see or hear people use Eastern religions, eg, Hindusim, Budhism, Taoism, etc, as a calling for wars.
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