SPL Game 7 LA vs. WAS (7/18/2006) [Bynum 10-10 FG, 25 points, 11 boards]
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KevDog
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:47 pm    Post subject:

magic_bryant wrote:
Of course, none of you will dare post after a bad game.

Typical.



Well, why would we? We're fans not haters.
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LakerJam
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:57 pm    Post subject:

RCS926 wrote:
LakerJam wrote:
da ocho wrote:
Mike keep up the good work. You call it like it is instead of calling it how you wish it was. Those with the over the top, unfair assessments just can't seem to deal with either having to wait, or the possibility of being dissapointed.

With great showings in the spl by jordan farmar, you wonder why he doesn't get the undying "a lock to be the next superstar" love. I personally think its only because bynum is a center and there is still a void in the homers hearts left by a certain big fella.


Why is it "unfair" or "over the top" for fans to believe a player can be something special in this league? Who is it unfair to? Do YOU feel people are being unfair to you, if they believe that you can be special? Of course not. People typically respond well to the faith of others in them and judging from how hard Bynum has worked this off-season, he's clearly responding well to the faith and belief the organization has placed in him. It's all good. There is absolutely nothing at all wrong with any of that. Especially when the Lakers say and act as though they believe it, too. Fans should ignore the take of the Lakers because you guys don't believe it?

Ultimately, belief is the beauty of fanship - that people believe in their players and in their team. You don't have to agree with it, but it would be nice if you and MB stopped at least coming across as superior just because you don't believe it.


Overall, there's nothing wrong with sticking to beliefs regarding your thoughts on Bynum's potential. However, the problem is that posters on both sides of the spectrum have basically been degrading other posters with opposing viewpoints. That's where all the tension is coming from. da ocho was specifically called out by another poster. magic has been stereotyping other posters who are more optimistic about Bynum than he is, and in turn, those same posters have been stereotyping him as well. At any rate, the heat has been turned up because posters have generally thrown aside sound analysis in favor of accusations and assumptions directed at those with opposing views. I think we can agree to disagree without offending one another.


Well put, RC. You're always a calm voice seeking for common courtesy and respect to prevail.

Have you ever considered mediating for a living? You're quite naturally inclined to do that, you know. Indeed, it's one of the first things that I noticed about you.
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DancingBarry
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:03 pm    Post subject:

RCS926 wrote:
Overall, there's nothing wrong with sticking to beliefs regarding your thoughts on Bynum's potential. However, the problem is that posters on both sides of the spectrum have basically been degrading other posters with opposing viewpoints. That's where all the tension is coming from. da ocho was specifically called out by another poster. magic has been stereotyping other posters who are more optimistic about Bynum than he is, and in turn, those same posters have been stereotyping him as well. At any rate, the heat has been turned up because posters have generally thrown aside sound analysis in favor of accusations and assumptions directed at those with opposing views. I think we can agree to disagree without offending one another.


Much appreciated by the mods, RCS926...
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RCS926
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:06 pm    Post subject:

LakerJam wrote:
RCS926 wrote:
LakerJam wrote:
da ocho wrote:
Mike keep up the good work. You call it like it is instead of calling it how you wish it was. Those with the over the top, unfair assessments just can't seem to deal with either having to wait, or the possibility of being dissapointed.

With great showings in the spl by jordan farmar, you wonder why he doesn't get the undying "a lock to be the next superstar" love. I personally think its only because bynum is a center and there is still a void in the homers hearts left by a certain big fella.


Why is it "unfair" or "over the top" for fans to believe a player can be something special in this league? Who is it unfair to? Do YOU feel people are being unfair to you, if they believe that you can be special? Of course not. People typically respond well to the faith of others in them and judging from how hard Bynum has worked this off-season, he's clearly responding well to the faith and belief the organization has placed in him. It's all good. There is absolutely nothing at all wrong with any of that. Especially when the Lakers say and act as though they believe it, too. Fans should ignore the take of the Lakers because you guys don't believe it?

Ultimately, belief is the beauty of fanship - that people believe in their players and in their team. You don't have to agree with it, but it would be nice if you and MB stopped at least coming across as superior just because you don't believe it.


Overall, there's nothing wrong with sticking to beliefs regarding your thoughts on Bynum's potential. However, the problem is that posters on both sides of the spectrum have basically been degrading other posters with opposing viewpoints. That's where all the tension is coming from. da ocho was specifically called out by another poster. magic has been stereotyping other posters who are more optimistic about Bynum than he is, and in turn, those same posters have been stereotyping him as well. At any rate, the heat has been turned up because posters have generally thrown aside sound analysis in favor of accusations and assumptions directed at those with opposing views. I think we can agree to disagree without offending one another.


Well put, RC. You're always a calm voice seeking for common courtesy and respect to prevail.

Have you ever considered mediating for a living? You're quite naturally inclined to do that, you know. Indeed, it's one of the first things that I noticed about you.


Thanks for the compliments LJ...and DB.
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KevDog
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:02 pm    Post subject:

magic_bryant wrote:
I didn't purposely piss anyone off. I simply stated my opinion, and as is the case EVERY time, the homers didn't like that I would DARE say Bynum would be just a 15/10/2 guy. They got all up in arms at the mere thought of Bynum only being a very good starting C. When I made point of that, they acted as if I was calling him a bum.



My feeling is that if anyone has the gall to call so-called fellow laker fans "homers," then that person is either deliberately flaming Laker fans, is an instigator in general or is a fake fan. So frankly I don't really care what you have to say about Bynum or the rest of the team, I don't view you as a fan of the team so much as a fan of your own ego.
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ocho
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:30 pm    Post subject:

RC-

i agree with you about not turning these discussions personal.

my issue with bynum is a small one and has been blown out of proportion by certain posters. i don't hate andrew bynum. i like andrew bynum. i have an andrew bynum jersey. i get excited whenever he enters the game. i remember sitting in a sports bar the day he burned shaq and threw it down. i jumped up and down and screamed like a little kid.

i think he can be a very good player. however i've seen what high expectations can do to a player when they are applied too soon. i've seen what happened to kwame brown when people expected the world of him when he was just a kid. i've seen what's been done to kobe bryant by the constant michael jordan comparisons..not to menion the countless other players who have been saddled as "jordanesque". it's not fair to those players. that's why i take an issue with people comparing him with the other great laker centers...which reads like a list of the greatest players to ever step on hardwood. i dont think its fair to call him the next shaq because odds are he will probably not reach that level.

i understand excitement over our beloved lakers. however i think it is important to keep his progress in perspective, allow him to grow and get better without overreacting or blowing whatever he does out of proportion. at the end of the day he's still just a kid with a long career ahead of him. he's not shaq right now, he's not kareem, he's not dwight howard and he's not amare stoudamire. he's young, fairly untested, and deserves patience.
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RCS926
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:23 pm    Post subject:

da ocho wrote:
RC-

i agree with you about not turning these discussions personal.

my issue with bynum is a small one and has been blown out of proportion by certain posters. i don't hate andrew bynum. i like andrew bynum. i have an andrew bynum jersey. i get excited whenever he enters the game. i remember sitting in a sports bar the day he burned shaq and threw it down. i jumped up and down and screamed like a little kid.

i think he can be a very good player. however i've seen what high expectations can do to a player when they are applied too soon. i've seen what happened to kwame brown when people expected the world of him when he was just a kid. i've seen what's been done to kobe bryant by the constant michael jordan comparisons..not to menion the countless other players who have been saddled as "jordanesque". it's not fair to those players. that's why i take an issue with people comparing him with the other great laker centers...which reads like a list of the greatest players to ever step on hardwood. i dont think its fair to call him the next shaq because odds are he will probably not reach that level.

i understand excitement over our beloved lakers. however i think it is important to keep his progress in perspective, allow him to grow and get better without overreacting or blowing whatever he does out of proportion. at the end of the day he's still just a kid with a long career ahead of him. he's not shaq right now, he's not kareem, he's not dwight howard and he's not amare stoudamire. he's young, fairly untested, and deserves patience.


da ocho,

Good post man. I'm completely in agreement with you. I simply brought your name up as an example of the unnecessary ad hominems that some posters bring up when trying state their case. Just so we clear, I think the fault lies with the poster who called you out.
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:55 pm    Post subject:

Quote:

Why is it "unfair" or "over the top" for fans to believe a player can be something special in this league? Who is it unfair to?


I know the questions have already been answered well... But...

Why is it unfair? Well Kobe doesn't like the MJ comparisons. LeBron doesn't like the Magic/Kobe comparisons. It's unfair to the player.

It puts a very high expectation on the kid who's just trying to do what he can in his own power. Most fans can't handle a player not meeting that kind of high expectation. Most players can't handle that kind of pressure, in this case, to develop quickly so that the Lakers get a shot at the Finals within 2-3 years.
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