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audioaxes
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 Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:08 am Post subject: |
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it seems ppl like to the rip on Microsoft or just not give them a fair chance as if they are evil and all other corporations are good
MS has done a great job with the xbox consoles starting with nothing at a time when sony could do nothing wrong with the ps console to the point where they can potentially when this next gen war
while i dont think they can replace the ipod i wouldnt rule them of getting very competitive with it
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Bergamotichek
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:14 am Post subject: |
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Yeah... some growth. :roll:
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Apple is now more successful than ever. Sales and profits are setting records every quarter. New models of Apple's Macintosh computers appear on magazine covers and make cameo appearances in numerous Hollywood movies and TV shows. Apple's iPod is bringing new acolytes into the Mac fold.
Yet despite well-deserved acclaim for design and ease of use, Apple's share of the worldwide PC market has tumbled from 4.6 percent in 1996, the year before Jobs returned, to just 2.2 percent in 2005.
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Meanwhile, the two research firms that track computer market share -- Gartner and IDC -- are in close agreement on Apple's decline.
Gartner puts Apple's 1996 share at 4.6 percent, IDC at 5.1 percent. Market share in 2005 was 2.2 percent from Gartner and 2.3 percent from IDC. According to Gartner, Apple's market share peaked at 15.8 percent in 1980 -- four years before the Mac was introduced.
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ocho
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| i don't think i am ripping microsoft unfairly. i was a microsoft windows user for 20 years. i switched over to mac a few years ago, so i've experienced both. it's not like they make a bad product..it's just that there is a better product out there imo. xbox was better than ps2 but will 360 be better than ps3? probably not. i was pretty underwhelmed with 360 when i tried it out. graphics were better but didn't blow me away. and there's no blu-ray player. |
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skumbag
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:56 am Post subject: |
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When I was in college, I was a pretty gung-ho with this anti-Micorsoft, support Mac, suport Sun, support Linux mentality. But then I got into the corporate IT world and virtually every PC was Windows, and still is so. I don't think any corporate IT manager in their right mind would embrace Macs if they value their job.
Macs have too much going against them. In the research and academia worlds, Linux and Windows will cover everything for them. In the corporate world, MS has a huge advantage through their partner licensing program. Does Apple have this structure in place? I suppose there will always be that 2.2% or so Mac users and a few hippies swearing by Apple and Jobs. For the rest of us, it's Windows all the way, like it or not. Is this not reality? |
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Star
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| Car54 wrote: | | Apple is so far ahead it not even funny |
This statement is so wrong it isn't even funny. I'm a big Linux fan and I think the Mac OS is great but you greatly underestimate just what it takes to make an OS.
Windows OS has a HUGE advantage in that it works with just about every hardware configuration and with literally 1000's of different programs from 1000's of companies.
Apple's OS works on a very limited set of hardware on a very limited set of software. You have no idea how hard it is to make a core piece of software like an OS work in such a heterogenous environment. In fact, most of the problems that people face with their PC's have nothing to do with the Window's OS but in fact with 3rd party Software and hardware drivers. Of course, when something goes wrong, they blame what they want, which is normally the OS.
Mac has a LONG way before they can support all these different hardware and software platforms. If they ever go down that road, they are going to learn how painful it really is when you can't control all the hardware and software choices that consumers really want. |
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uberzev
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| JD wrote: | Yeah... some growth. :roll:
| Quote: |
Apple is now more successful than ever. Sales and profits are setting records every quarter. New models of Apple's Macintosh computers appear on magazine covers and make cameo appearances in numerous Hollywood movies and TV shows. Apple's iPod is bringing new acolytes into the Mac fold.
Yet despite well-deserved acclaim for design and ease of use, Apple's share of the worldwide PC market has tumbled from 4.6 percent in 1996, the year before Jobs returned, to just 2.2 percent in 2005.
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| Quote: |
Meanwhile, the two research firms that track computer market share -- Gartner and IDC -- are in close agreement on Apple's decline.
Gartner puts Apple's 1996 share at 4.6 percent, IDC at 5.1 percent. Market share in 2005 was 2.2 percent from Gartner and 2.3 percent from IDC. According to Gartner, Apple's market share peaked at 15.8 percent in 1980 -- four years before the Mac was introduced.
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LMAO Ocho got pwned. 
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ocho
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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Skumbag your argument is soley based on whether or not an IT guy would switch his company to mac. This has nothing to do with the quality of macs. Windows has more programs to choose from and almost everybody is more farmiliar with PCs.
I am arguing that mac makes a better product with a better OS and better apps. Its about quality of product not who sells more. Will mac overtake windows? Of course not... At least not anytime soon. Just like zune won't take over ipod.
And I want to take personal issue for apple users being associated with hippies. I have never participated in any hippiedom. I hate hippies and am offended by the accusation. |
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ocho
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ocho
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Bergamotichek
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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Your links don't prove anything. In fact, if you read the 1st paragraph of my post, it specifically makes reference to the profit.
The question was growth into and overcoming a market that is clearly dominated by PCs. Stating that 50% of Mac sales were new users to Macs, doesn't really say much either... as I'm sure there's similar statistics pointing towards PC sales. In other words... those people are new to computers, so anything they purchase would be entry into the market.
See... this is the problem I have wth Mac people. I really couldn't care less what someone uses. I've owned both, however I prefer my PCs. But, bring the subject up to Mac users and they get all butt-hurt insisting how superior their product is and then do/say everything they can to degrade the PC. |
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Bergamotichek
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| And heck... I own an iPod and love it. Wouldn't even consider trading it in for this MS product. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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I degrade PCs for certain things because I believe they lag on technology advancement and innovation. I was very pleased when I switched and believe mac is ahead of microsoft in terms of OS. I think I've been fair in my criticisms.
I provided those links to show that there has been growth. They still hold a very small bit of the market but they have had some sales boosts recently. The market is still dominated by PCs and will continue to be as long as macs remain more expensive. For now they provide a nice alternative.
And my butt feels fine by the way.  |
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eureca
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| da ocho wrote: | | i don't think i am ripping microsoft unfairly. |
Oh?
| da ocho wrote: | | Microsofts mp3 player will look laughable once apple drops the touch screen ipod. Just like the 360 will look like a joke when ps3 comes out. Just like vista is already a joke. |
LOL that sure seems very fair. Attack Microsoft's MP3 player when it isn't out. And praise the PS3 when it isn't even out. That sure is fair. The only thing PS3 has on the 360 is the blue ray drive which we don't even know will be successful. You pay 600+ for the PS3 what if blue ray fails you are stuck with it since Sony doesn't offer the PS3 without one. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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I think I can make a fair assesment based on specs and history. The zune to me is unimpressive and the rumors of the new ipods make that far more desireable and impressive.
I've been an ipod user since the very first gen. If a company wants me to switch they have to come out with a product that is clearly better. Zune looks like every other ipod imitator.
As for ps3... Its a more powerful machine and has the 360 and it has next gen dvd player built in. So obviously I expect it to be better. Not to mention the slew of problems microsoft has already had with its unit. The only thing 360 has on ps3 is price. Ps3 has more desirable features. Imo blu-ray will succeed due to the fact that it will be in ps3s. |
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Socks
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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Microsoft isn't in this to take the market from iPods in the next year or two - they're looking at it much further down the road. They can't compete in design or consumer love for the iPod right now and they know it. So it's a matter of what their competitive strengths are and they're willing to be patient. Not in any particular order:
1) Windows installed base
2) X-box
3) MSN
4) Microsoft Media Center
5) Pocket PC
6) Networking infrastructure
They're banking on convergence down the line allowing them to leverage all of these assets to help them compete. No one else has all these different pieces. It's typical MS strategy - own the platform, ensure that platform has the best compatibility with the most amount of applications/devices. If MS can come out with a device where you can download music wirelessly to your PC, wirelessly transfer this to your Pocket PC phone, share this music with your phone contact list which you've uploaded from Outlook, beam this to your media center so you can watch it on TV and upload it to customize your x-box game, then beam x-box gaming profiles and saved games to each other and easily share it with on your MSN community site, all with a few button clicks, your looking at something no one else can match. This moves far beyond just music or a single device.
I agree, no way MS will be able to match ipods in the next few generations of devices, but MS is looking 10 years down the road, and that's when they'll be dangerous. |
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eureca
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| da ocho wrote: |
As for ps3... Its a more powerful machine and has the 360 and it has next gen dvd player built in. So obviously I expect it to be better. Not to mention the slew of problems microsoft has already had with its unit. The only thing 360 has on ps3 is price. Ps3 has more desirable features. Imo blu-ray will succeed due to the fact that it will be in ps3s. |
Its is hardly more powerful. They are about equal where it counts. As for the "problems". If you mean the crashing that's what dumb people get for buying a system at launch. And PS2 had a lot more "problems" then the 360 had I'm sure PS3 will have "problems" as well. PS3 has lost plenty of exclusives to 360. Including there best selling wrestling game smackdown vs. raw 07, but the funny part it that 07 was cancelled for PS3 and will still come out for 360 in November. The PS3 is hard to develop for and expensive to develop for while 360 is a lot easier and a lot less expensive. Only reason to get a PS3 at this point is MGS4 which wont be out any time soon and would be dumb to buy a system for 1 game. I just hope it will be ported to 360 or PC. There are plenty of great games coming out for 360. Including Saints Row this Tuesday which seems like it will be sick. |
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Car54
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Star wrote: | | Car54 wrote: | | Apple is so far ahead it not even funny |
This statement is so wrong it isn't even funny. I'm a big Linux fan and I think the Mac OS is great but you greatly underestimate just what it takes to make an OS.
Windows OS has a HUGE advantage in that it works with just about every hardware configuration and with literally 1000's of different programs from 1000's of companies. |
Thats the problem MS OS doesnt really work with these other programs. Allowing software to ruin on a PC and an OS working with a 3rd party software are two different things. Sure you can run multimedia apps on a windows machine but on a Mac you have total integration with the softwares available. BTW Mac pretty much comes with all the software u need so there isnt really a need for third parties.
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Star
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Car54 wrote: | | Star wrote: | | Car54 wrote: | | Apple is so far ahead it not even funny |
This statement is so wrong it isn't even funny. I'm a big Linux fan and I think the Mac OS is great but you greatly underestimate just what it takes to make an OS.
Windows OS has a HUGE advantage in that it works with just about every hardware configuration and with literally 1000's of different programs from 1000's of companies. |
Thats the problem MS OS doesnt really work with these other programs. Allowing software to ruin on a PC and an OS working with a 3rd party software are two different things. Sure you can run multimedia apps on a windows machine but on a Mac you have total integration with the softwares available. BTW Mac pretty much comes with all the software u need so there isnt really a need for third parties. |
You are just missing the point. Consumers get great value from having so many choices in software and hardware. This is the main reason MS DOMINATES Apple. Choice and cost. If apple ever wanted to really compete with MS they would have to be cheaper and work with more software and hardware. IF the decided to do that, then and only then might people appreciate the technology that MS really puts into its products.
To say that Apple is way ahead of MS is just plain wrong. MS is solving a very different problem than Apple. |
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Laker_Town
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| JD wrote: | Your links don't prove anything. In fact, if you read the 1st paragraph of my post, it specifically makes reference to the profit.
The question was growth into and overcoming a market that is clearly dominated by PCs. Stating that 50% of Mac sales were new users to Macs, doesn't really say much either... as I'm sure there's similar statistics pointing towards PC sales. In other words... those people are new to computers, so anything they purchase would be entry into the market.
See... this is the problem I have wth Mac people. I really couldn't care less what someone uses. I've owned both, however I prefer my PCs. But, bring the subject up to Mac users and they get all butt-hurt insisting how superior their product is and then do/say everything they can to degrade the PC. |
very true. i have friedn at work whos always talking about how mac has a newer OS coming out, and how Gates hasnt done anything thus far.
Mac lovers, as theyve come to be known, act like Dan Brown followers trying to discredit an entity larger than their imgination can perceive .
Fact is that corporate WORLD runs on windows, and while Macs prove to be great in one field, it would be too cost effective to overhaul an entire corporation, so that their computers can add an eye candy effect to their office.
Personally, I stick to windows because I find so many goodies "hacks" for free that I cant get on Mac..( atleast theyre not available now)
And the virus thing on windows, is again because thiefs target the number
1 used system in the world...It simlpy the popular OS. |
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Car54
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Star wrote: | | Car54 wrote: | | Star wrote: | | Car54 wrote: | | Apple is so far ahead it not even funny |
This statement is so wrong it isn't even funny. I'm a big Linux fan and I think the Mac OS is great but you greatly underestimate just what it takes to make an OS.
Windows OS has a HUGE advantage in that it works with just about every hardware configuration and with literally 1000's of different programs from 1000's of companies. |
Thats the problem MS OS doesnt really work with these other programs. Allowing software to ruin on a PC and an OS working with a 3rd party software are two different things. Sure you can run multimedia apps on a windows machine but on a Mac you have total integration with the softwares available. BTW Mac pretty much comes with all the software u need so there isnt really a need for third parties. |
You are just missing the point. Consumers get great value from having so many choices in software and hardware. This is the main reason MS DOMINATES Apple. Choice and cost. If apple ever wanted to really compete with MS they would have to be cheaper and work with more software and hardware. IF the decided to do that, then and only then might people appreciate the technology that MS really puts into its products.
To say that Apple is way ahead of MS is just plain wrong. MS is solving a very different problem than Apple. |
Wrong Apple is a Computer and software company MS is software. Consumers don't buy PC because of software choices they buy it because you can buy a PC 199.00 and the cheapest Mac is 499.00. Pc Apple has the same choices in software as PC so stop the nonsense. Like i said if you want software that works Apple is the way to go. Vista is trying to catch up to tiger and Apple has another OS waiting in the wings so explain how their not ahead of MS?
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GonzagaAlum
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker_Town wrote: | | JD wrote: | Your links don't prove anything. In fact, if you read the 1st paragraph of my post, it specifically makes reference to the profit.
The question was growth into and overcoming a market that is clearly dominated by PCs. Stating that 50% of Mac sales were new users to Macs, doesn't really say much either... as I'm sure there's similar statistics pointing towards PC sales. In other words... those people are new to computers, so anything they purchase would be entry into the market.
See... this is the problem I have wth Mac people. I really couldn't care less what someone uses. I've owned both, however I prefer my PCs. But, bring the subject up to Mac users and they get all butt-hurt insisting how superior their product is and then do/say everything they can to degrade the PC. |
very true. i have friedn at work whos always talking about how mac has a newer OS coming out, and how Gates hasnt done anything thus far.
Mac lovers, as theyve come to be known, act like Dan Brown followers trying to discredit an entity larger than their imgination can perceive .
Fact is that corporate WORLD runs on windows, and while Macs prove to be great in one field, it would be too cost effective to overhaul an entire corporation, so that their computers can add an eye candy effect to their office.
Personally, I stick to windows because I find so many goodies "hacks" for free that I cant get on Mac..( atleast theyre not available now)
And the virus thing on windows, is again because thiefs target the number
1 used system in the world...It simlpy the popular OS. |
I used to be on the PC side. I finally got sick of having to use programs like adaware, virus's, etc... got a mac about a year ago...
It matters what you want out of a computer.
A mac will never compeat with a PC in gaming. It just won't happen. However there are "enough games" for the casual gamer (not picky on which games, and just want games) and there computers are fast enough to run it.
If you just want to browse the web... casual user... Mac's are by far superior... yes some pages might not look exactly right. Occasionally you have to switch from firefox to safari because some pages aren't mac friendly... but pop ups, virus's, back doors, malware... all this stuff... that slows down your computer... can't do (bleep) to a mac.
which leads me to why I'll never leave Mac most likely ever again, unless this condintion changes... Mac's DON'T slow down. My mac runs the same speed it did when I bought it... a year in... no drive wipes needed, no need to sweep for spyware to keep it fresh. No need to reinstall the OS. The "gradual slow" of a windows based computer... it why I can't stand the PC. Basically you need to "work" to prevent it, and it's such a stupid thing to have to commit time too for your computer.
as for comments like you can't get "warez/cracks/etc" for a mac. That's bogus. You can. I know first hand, and rather easy. Actually easier than a PC actually if you know how to get it... because you don't have to worry about virus's,spyware/backdoors.
As for mac's being so "expensive" and "so far behind"... those are outdated too... mac allows you to install windows OS on it now... pure windows. So you can have that dual capability.
It also on its own OS capatability most notably with major software titles has caught up to microsoft in many significant ways... a large reason why is microsoft actually owns a nice chunk of mac and doesn't mind seeing them succeed (yes people they own like 15+ percent of their stock).
last but not least... macs are not expensive anymore. Anyone who thinks they are, are living in the past. Are they more than a Dell? yes... but not by bucko bucks... by minimal dollars.
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Bergamotichek
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| GonzagaAlum wrote: |
I used to be on the PC side. I finally got sick of having to use programs like adaware, virus's, etc... got a mac about a year ago...
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Yeah... when your base is less than 5% of the market... you're not going to be a target.
This is another problem I have with Mac users. While you may or may not share in this misplaced bravado, its systemic of the culture. They act like they don't have this problem, because their product is superior. No... you don't have this problem because your market share is equal to a pimple on a gnat's ass. In other words... not worth the hassle.
If/when Mac's grab a larger share of the market, you can guarantee the problems will follow. |
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Star
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Car54 wrote: | | Star wrote: | | Car54 wrote: | | Star wrote: | | Car54 wrote: | | Apple is so far ahead it not even funny |
This statement is so wrong it isn't even funny. I'm a big Linux fan and I think the Mac OS is great but you greatly underestimate just what it takes to make an OS.
Windows OS has a HUGE advantage in that it works with just about every hardware configuration and with literally 1000's of different programs from 1000's of companies. |
Thats the problem MS OS doesnt really work with these other programs. Allowing software to ruin on a PC and an OS working with a 3rd party software are two different things. Sure you can run multimedia apps on a windows machine but on a Mac you have total integration with the softwares available. BTW Mac pretty much comes with all the software u need so there isnt really a need for third parties. |
You are just missing the point. Consumers get great value from having so many choices in software and hardware. This is the main reason MS DOMINATES Apple. Choice and cost. If apple ever wanted to really compete with MS they would have to be cheaper and work with more software and hardware. IF the decided to do that, then and only then might people appreciate the technology that MS really puts into its products.
To say that Apple is way ahead of MS is just plain wrong. MS is solving a very different problem than Apple. |
Wrong Apple is a Computer and software company MS is software. Consumers don't buy PC because of software choices they buy it because you can buy a PC 199.00 and the cheapest Mac is 499.00. Pc Apple has the same choices in software as PC so stop the nonsense. Like i said if you want software that works Apple is the way to go. Vista is trying to catch up to tiger and Apple has another OS waiting in the wings so explain how their not ahead of MS? |
Really, you should stop because you keep missing the point. In fact, you are making it for me. You say
| Quote: | | they buy it because you can buy a PC 199.00 and the cheapest Mac is 499.00. |
Why do you think a PC is cheaper? It's BECAUSE Microsoft supports so many hardware choices. This means that hardware vendors have to compete against each other. Competition brings down prices.
Mac just can't compete in this area. They don't support so many hardware choices. THAT IS THE PROBLEM. If Apple decided to compete with MS here, and support all these hardware and software platforms, then you would understand how truely hard it is to make software that works on a billion different computers, each with a different configuration. This is where Apple is behind.
And your assertion that people have the same software choices on apple as they do on Windows is just absurd. Talk to any gamer. |
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GonzagaAlum
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| JD wrote: | | GonzagaAlum wrote: |
I used to be on the PC side. I finally got sick of having to use programs like adaware, virus's, etc... got a mac about a year ago...
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Yeah... when your base is less than 5% of the market... you're not going to be a target.
This is another problem I have with Mac users. While you may or may not share in this misplaced bravado, its systemic of the culture. They act like they don't have this problem, because their product is superior. No... you don't have this problem because your market share is equal to a pimple on a gnat's ass. In other words... not worth the hassle.
If/when Mac's grab a larger share of the market, you can guarantee the problems will follow. |
You and the poster below yours both need a history lesson.
Xerox made the first "visual based" operating system for a computer. They owned the technology. They thought it was basically worthless..
They sold it to Apple. Apple turned it into the Mac. It was strong and stable. Steady.
Bill Gates left the "apple pack" to make Microsoft. He ended up buying DOS from a developer in Seattle for $50,000. DOS as we all know sucks. It got rocked. Bill Gates then jacks the Mac OS and throws it on a "PC". He basically puts it on top of the DOS foundation... which it is still on today. That DOS foundation is what makes PC's so easy for developers to attack.
You think MAC's have no virus's because they only have 5% of the market share? You know how many virus's there are for PC's? You're talking possibly over a million total. ZERO for a mac. There was a "claimed one" about 3 months ago, which turned out to not be one. That isn't because it only has a 5 percent market share. That's because it's OS doesn't have a foundation which can be easily cracked.
Dream on people. 5%+ of the market share is still enough for virus's to be made if they could be done. You're still talking MILLIONS of computers... MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of users.
In Xerox speak... (pun intended) it's like this... Microsoft is a copy of a copy... and you all know what happens when you do that... and if not... try it sometime and see what you get.
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Bergamotichek
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:04 am Post subject: |
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Wow... getting a little uppidity there.
You didn't just school me on anything, I didn't already know.
The rest of your post is based on silly assumptions.
Last edited by Bergamotichek on Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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