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ocho
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 Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| magic_bryant wrote: | Nah. Magic was loved by everyone. That's true. But I don't think it was the same as the way Kobe's fans. Kobe's fans aren't as great in numbers, I agree. But their level of support is insane. Any criticism offered and the critic is immediately labelled a hater.
Magic was revered. As a performer.
Kobe is treated as if he were everyone of his fans own son. "How dare you talk about my child that way!?!?", etc. |
that's only because of kobe's bad reputation and the fact that so many people hate him. so fans get defensive. doesn't mean they love kobe more than magic.
there was no reason to wildly defend any of magic's action because he was a model citizen, a terrific human being, and never had any on court issues with his teammates. magic is far more beloved. it's not even remotely close.
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hoopschick29
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| magic_bryant wrote: | Nah. Magic was loved by everyone. That's true. But I don't think it was the same as the way Kobe's fans. Kobe's fans aren't as great in numbers, I agree. But their level of support is insane. Any criticism offered and the critic is immediately labelled a hater.
Magic was revered. As a performer.
Kobe is treated as if he were everyone of his fans own son. "How dare you talk about my child that way!?!?", etc. |
Magic was revered as a performer. He was loved and admired as a person. He is still as a business man.
I'm not sure what you're comparing here. Yeah, Kobe's fans stand up to the critics loudly. But Magic never had the critics to stand up against. You know what I take that back.
When Magic annouced he had HIV everyone was almost universally sad and sympathetic and devastated. What happened when Martina Navratilova made her comments? Or Karl Malone? Magic supporters came out in droves to charge back at both them.
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jeso08
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan
“Maybe Magic is just old school, and thinks that you win with big men, not perimeter players. If that was your belief, you would definitely suck to Shaq more than Kobe. As for Magic feeling threatened, I doubt that. He is still the greatest Laker of them all.”
From what I remember magic was asked who he likes between the two.
I also believed that Kobe new how important Shaq was in the post, but it infuriated him that Shaq came in FAT every year and still made fun of him, will try to trade him, put the rest of the team against him and make things public.
Don’t get me wrong, I know that Kobe was young and stubborn, but he was a smart kid and grew up with NBA people around him. He just could not win.
As a kid Magic was my all-time favorite Laker, but when its all said and done Kobe will be my greatest of all-time. |
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eniq 0x00
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: |
there was no reason to wildly defend any of magic's action because he was a model citizen, a terrific human being, and never had any on court issues with his teammates. magic is far more beloved. it's not even remotely close. |
So Kobe's personal life issues make him not a model citizen? Magic never cheated on his own wife? They're in the same boat, but Kobe got piled on to such a ridiculous degree for no good reason-even by his so-called fans who should be fans for another team.
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ocho
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| eniq 0x00 wrote: | | ocho wrote: |
there was no reason to wildly defend any of magic's action because he was a model citizen, a terrific human being, and never had any on court issues with his teammates. magic is far more beloved. it's not even remotely close. |
So Kobe's personal life issues make him not a model citizen? Magic never cheated on his own wife? They're in the same boat, but Kobe got piled on to such a ridiculous degree for no good reason-even by his so-called fans who should be fans for another team. |
magic never had huge public battles with his teammates. he never punched a teammate during practice. he never conducted interviews slamming his teammates. he never bad mouthed his coach.
now before you flame me...let me explain.
i am not saying that all of the above events were without provocation. i'm not saying they were entirely his fault. however magic's time with the lakers was entirely positive, filled with constant championships/finals appearances, harmony and fun. zero drama.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Divac12_NoviBeograd wrote: | I watched it. Unless I missed something, there was no mention of Kobe nor the Lakers. He was asked about the failure to win at the Olympics and the WC's. He made a point to say that there will only be 1 Dream Team. Then he rattled off some excuses like lack of commitment and team play, also pointed out how now these young guys get millions before ever playing a minute in the NBA, which makes them lose motivation to improve. And those other guys (like Greece) can shoot and excel in the team game.
He then briefly talked about his new business venture. Apparently he is starting a travel agent business that will allow people to own their own business to a degree. The focus as usual with Magic's businesses is gonna be low income single parent families. They would be provided a computer with all the necessary software and training (for $5,000), and you're off selling trips to Kandahar from your basement. I think he's got great business sense but this one will flop imo. |
Last I heard, the government is offering all-espenses-paid trips to Kandahar, so there's probably not much money to be made there.
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jeso08
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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ocho wrote:
“magic never had huge public battles with his teammates.
What!!! those public battles were initiated by Shaq, not by Kobe! and Magic had issues with several players during his career but it wasn’t made public by the media.
“he never punched a teammate during practice.”
Shaq did slap Kobe in practice. Magic was known for being very physical during practices and I’m sure they were some fights but not reported.
“he never conducted interviews slamming his teammates.”
neither has Kobe(he did release a statement to Jim Grey ONCE!) and Shaq did it throughout his career.
“he never bad mouthed his coach.”
Neither did Kobe until his contract was expiring and only said that he wanted a change. Magic got a coach FIRED and Shaq has slammed every coach besides Daley and Riley.
Magic is no saint!!  |
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magic_bryant
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| jeso08 wrote: |
ocho wrote:
“magic never had huge public battles with his teammates.
What!!! those public battles were initiated by Shaq, not by Kobe! and Magic had issues with several players during his career but it wasn’t made public by the media.
“he never punched a teammate during practice.”
Shaq did slap Kobe in practice. Magic was known for being very physical during practices and I’m sure they were some fights but not reported.
“he never conducted interviews slamming his teammates.”
neither has Kobe(he did release a statement to Jim Grey ONCE!) and Shaq did it throughout his career.
“he never bad mouthed his coach.”
Neither did Kobe until his contract was expiring and only said that he wanted a change. Magic got a coach FIRED and Shaq has slammed every coach besides Daley and Riley.
Magic is no saint!! |
Ocho- ^^^ My point exactly.
The Kobe fans will defend him and think ANY and all forms of criticism are hate. I've seen way too many Kobe fans absolutely talk about Magic as if he were nothing more than Mark Madsen, just along for the ride on 5 titles.
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jeso08
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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I never questioned Magic's value or talent(currently the greatest player of all time).
On the other hand, I was talking about the perception that Magic never did anything wrong. And it bugs that crap out of me that
Magic (a living legend with so much clout) will just sit there and say things that will make matters worst. |
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Bergamotichek
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Divac12_NoviBeograd wrote: | | I watched it. Unless I missed something, there was no mention of Kobe nor the Lakers. |
Hey, get that crap outta here. Why ruin a perfectly good rant session on something that never happened. We don't see enough of the kind of thing around here. |
Do you ever wonder why people constantly attack you?
Its lameass comments like that, which provoke it.
Take a look in the mirror. |
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Mr.Tricky
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| The Magic man is my all time fav, with Kobe running a close second, but like a previous poster said Magic was no saint....I believe it was Magic who went to Dr. Buss and demanded that Paul Westhead be fired, this after only 2 years in the league. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| jeso08 wrote: |
ocho wrote:
“magic never had huge public battles with his teammates.
What!!! those public battles were initiated by Shaq, not by Kobe! and Magic had issues with several players during his career but it wasn’t made public by the media.
“he never punched a teammate during practice.”
Shaq did slap Kobe in practice. Magic was known for being very physical during practices and I’m sure they were some fights but not reported.
“he never conducted interviews slamming his teammates.”
neither has Kobe(he did release a statement to Jim Grey ONCE!) and Shaq did it throughout his career.
“he never bad mouthed his coach.”
Neither did Kobe until his contract was expiring and only said that he wanted a change. Magic got a coach FIRED and Shaq has slammed every coach besides Daley and Riley.
Magic is no saint!! |
not all the fights were initiated by shaq. it takes two to tango and kobe had his part in it.
as for punching a teammate...he punched samaki. that's not the type of behavior magic would exhibit.
umm..the jim grey interview was not a statement. it was attacking his teammates and coach. and even though he wasn't the first to strike, it's still distracting. kobe did bad mouth phil before his contract was up. he said "i like him as a coach, not as a person".
never said magic was a saint. i love kobe to death, but the fact remains nobody will ever mean more to the lakers or laker fans than magic.
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jeso08
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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“not all the fights were initiated by Shaq. it takes two to tango and kobe had his part in it.”
it doesn’t take two to fight, you only need one bully and the other to refuse to take it.
”as for punching a teammate...he punched samaki. that's not the type of behavior magic would exhibit.”
I take it you were there during those heated/physical pratices in the eighties?
”umm..the jim grey interview was not a statement. it was attacking his teammates and coach. and even though he wasn't the first to strike, it's still distracting.”
Kobe only addressed shaq after years of bashing and only mentioned how he ask phil the handle to issue and phil didn’t.
“kobe did bad mouth phil before his contract was up. he said "i like him as a coach, not as a person".”
Yes!...only after phil’s book and how he privately had conversations with phil and Phil later leaked to the media.
”never said magic was a saint. i love kobe to death, but the fact remains nobody will ever mean more to the lakers or laker fans than magic.”
I guess we agree to disagree. |
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24isjoking23
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| jeso08 wrote: |
ocho wrote:
“magic never had huge public battles with his teammates.
What!!! those public battles were initiated by Shaq, not by Kobe! and Magic had issues with several players during his career but it wasn’t made public by the media.
“he never punched a teammate during practice.”
Shaq did slap Kobe in practice. Magic was known for being very physical during practices and I’m sure they were some fights but not reported.
“he never conducted interviews slamming his teammates.”
neither has Kobe(he did release a statement to Jim Grey ONCE!) and Shaq did it throughout his career.
“he never bad mouthed his coach.”
Neither did Kobe until his contract was expiring and only said that he wanted a change. Magic got a coach FIRED and Shaq has slammed every coach besides Daley and Riley.
Magic is no saint!! |
All of them have ego. But in public, magic and shaq get more love. |
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fadeaway8
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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Before HIV announcement and Colorado Rape charges. I think both Magic and Kobe were no doubt LA's favorite sports heroes. I think Magic was loved more than Kobe because I remember how devastated everyone felt after he made the HIV announcement.
After HIV and Colorado, I think Magic was still better off. He was already near the end of his career and accomplished alot already. I doubt he could win another championship even if he played, not when Jordan/Pippen/Jackson was on a roll. He returned in 1992 to the All-Stars and won MVP honors and was select to be one of the original Dream Team members that won Gold in Barcelona, that was a nice ending to a great career. And since then he's been beating HIV, became HIV spokesperson, and at the same time turned into a great businessman, so there was little or no harm from HIV on his life.
Kobe on the other hand was impacted more from Colorado incident. He lost fan's respect, he lost his clean cut image, he lost his nike shoe deals and among other other endorsement deals. And unlike Magic, his basketball career was on the rise and his career is long from over. This is why Kobe isn't as loved as Magic. So now Kobe has to earn all that back, take back all the stuffs he lost, and its much harder to do once you screwed up. It takes efforts on and off the court to repair his image. And you see he's been doing that whether its touring asia, sending kids to italy, helping charity clubs, be more vocal leader on the court, etc. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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kobe made those comments about phil well before the book came out.
look if you wanna entertain this revisionist history where kobe baked everyone cookies while they all took dumps on them then that is your choice. he had his part in the breakup of a dominant dynasty. it wasn't all his fault but it is naive to say he had nothing to do with it.
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tw-lakbfan
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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Kobe liked Phil as a coach, but not as a person and that's badmouthing Phil? And that's after Phil alienated him and asked him to be traded? An interview to call out Shaq is "interviews" slamming "his coah and teammates"? ocho is baseless/ridiculous. It's not Laker fans defensive for constructive criticisms towards Kobe, it's that some "fans" are ignorant.
Magic was bad at piling on Kobe during his toughest years. That was a disappointment. He was better last year though.
Last edited by tw-lakbfan on Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kobe>Lebron
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| postandpivot wrote: | | LakerJam wrote: | Give me a break with this Magic apologistic crap. Kobe didn't need Magic's attacks when he was beyond stressed out during the year of his rape accusation. That wasn't motivational in the slightest, it was piling on a guy already terrified about his life and family. He didn't need attacks in any way, shape or form, so let's quit with that nonsense already. No one would have thought it appropriate to pile on Magic during his initial HIV scare when that used to be an automatic death sentence, and attacking Kobe during his rape case is no different. Magic was all about Magic and as a self-admitted Shaq lover, I have to believe Shaq's influence was a large part of it.
Back to present day, Magic has come around now that Shaq isn't here and he's seeing the team bond and excel together without a divisive influence. That's allowed not only Magic, but many around the team to see that perhaps it wasn't all about Kobe being a monster and Shaq being a saint. Consequently, perhaps Magic is finding himself better able to appreciate Kobe's game now.
He IS a human being and they CAN be influenced and find themselves taking sides during times of turmoil. Contrary to popular belief, Magic Johnson is not the Christ whereby he's perfect. |
Just perfect^^^laker jam. you 've just been nominated for post of the week  |
For Once LakerJam we are in total agreement, good post.
Magic has proven to be a bit two faced over the last couple of years, that is just the plain old truth.
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Wino
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| magic_bryant wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | jeso08 wrote: |
I remember him saying something to the affect “that he likes Kobe, but he loves Shaq”.
It’s like he was jealous or threatened by Kobe’s love/legacy in L.A.  |
Maybe Magic is just old school, and thinks that you win with big men, not perimeter players. If that was your belief, you would definitely suck to Shaq more than Kobe. As for Magic feeling threatened, I doubt that. He is still the greatest Laker of them all. |
He may be the Greatest, but I don't think the fans ever loved him quite like they do Kobe. As evidenced by this board, Kobe's defended and loved as if he were LA's very own son. LA has watched him grow up, watched him learn to fail, learn to succeed, go through the rape case, and now him giving it his all to bring them back to the promised land. All this while, for the most part, the media has done everything to discredit their golden boy.
LA watched Magic and loved him as greatly as any city could love it's star player, but it just seems "different" than the love they have for Kobe. Magic was held in the highest of regard by all media members. Kobe doesn't get the same treatment, and for whatever reason, LA fans feel it necessary to defend him against any slight, either real or perceived. |
Well, certainly all the young guys without a historical perspective love the new guy on the block more than the guy they rarely saw play if ever.
I dig Kobe, but I dug Magic and West just as much.
The problem with this board is that you guys are all the result of the current political climate. ONLY support the ones you love the most and diss anyone who doesn't agree with you.
How about the day when West, Magic and Kobe can stand in a row and support each other????
How about the day when we embrace the history of the Lakers and appreciate all that it means to us?
You guys that rip on Magic are lost souls.
You support Kobe and look at his mistakes and don't understand why people can't accept him as a human and see the greatness that he brings to the league, but NONE OF YOU can even do it for your own historical man in Magic.
Why in Gods name should ANYONE forgive Kobe, if you all can't even forgive Magic and embrace him as your own???
You all are being hypocrits and your treatment of Magic does NOT make me proud to be a member here. I'm saddened for the community and really believe that others will see how you treat your own and pile it high on Kobe as a result.
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Wino
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | eniq 0x00 wrote: | | ocho wrote: |
there was no reason to wildly defend any of magic's action because he was a model citizen, a terrific human being, and never had any on court issues with his teammates. magic is far more beloved. it's not even remotely close. |
So Kobe's personal life issues make him not a model citizen? Magic never cheated on his own wife? They're in the same boat, but Kobe got piled on to such a ridiculous degree for no good reason-even by his so-called fans who should be fans for another team. |
magic never had huge public battles with his teammates. he never punched a teammate during practice. he never conducted interviews slamming his teammates. he never bad mouthed his coach.
now before you flame me...let me explain.
i am not saying that all of the above events were without provocation. i'm not saying they were entirely his fault. however magic's time with the lakers was entirely positive, filled with constant championships/finals appearances, harmony and fun. zero drama. |
Nah, he just asked to be traded because he hated the coach who, incidently coached the team to an NBA Championship.
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ocho
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| tw-lakbfan wrote: | Kobe liked Phil as a coach, but not as a person and that's badmouthing Phil? And that's after Phil alienated him and asked him to be traded? An interview to call out Shaq is "interviews" slamming "his coah and teammates"? ocho is baseless/ridiculous. It's not Laker fans defensive for constructive criticisms towards Kobe, it's that some "fans" are ignorant.
Magic was bad at piling on Kobe during his toughest years. That was a disappointment. He was better last year though. |
you're right. kobe has never done anything bad. he is responsible for nothing. he is accountable for nothing. everyone else is evil. he is perfect. his poop cures AIDS.
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NoHarmNoFoul
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Location: Shanghai, China
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| magic_bryant wrote: | | eniq 0x00 wrote: | | magic_bryant wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | jeso08 wrote: |
I remember him saying something to the affect “that he likes Kobe, but he loves Shaq”.
It’s like he was jealous or threatened by Kobe’s love/legacy in L.A. |
Maybe Magic is just old school, and thinks that you win with big men, not perimeter players. If that was your belief, you would definitely suck to Shaq more than Kobe. As for Magic feeling threatened, I doubt that. He is still the greatest Laker of them all. |
He may be the Greatest, but I don't think the fans ever loved him quite like they do Kobe. As evidenced by this board, Kobe's defended and loved as if he were LA's very own son. LA has watched him grow up, watched him learn to fail, learn to succeed, go through the rape case, and now him giving it his all to bring them back to the promised land. All this while, for the most part, the media has done everything to discredit their golden boy.
LA watched Magic and loved him as greatly as any city could love it's star player, but it just seems "different" than the love they have for Kobe. Magic was held in the highest of regard by all media members. Kobe doesn't get the same treatment, and for whatever reason, LA fans feel it necessary to defend him against any slight, either real or perceived. |
I feel the same way. In fact, it makes me defensive to a fault when dealing with things related to Kobe. I saw him grow into the man that he is now, and to me (right now) he can do no wrong. I love his dedication, his hard work, his single-minded pursuit of winning, his sacrifice. It makes me proud for him to be on our team-and as such, I'll defend him when I see him being disgraced. |
Don't feel bad, I've done the same before. But I was mostly just making a point that I don't think the love for Magic was the same as the love the fans have for Kobe. Kobe's like family to most of the LA fans I've seen. They'll defend him through any and everything. Magic was treated as just another great artist, who just happened to be the best at his craft.
Kobe just has a different love and respect from his fans. |
Couldn't disagree more.
Magic was universally loved by Lakers fans, and respected by NBA fans universally.
Kobe -- the guy's been my favorite player ever since he came into the league, BUT I've come to realize that a lot of Laker fans don't even like him (whine about him hogging the ball blahblah), and he's one of the more disliked guys in the league.
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Who will you aim your irrational anger at then?"
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| eniq 0x00 wrote: | | Magic never cheated on his own wife? |
Considering he contracted HIV before he was married, it wouldn't be surprising to find that he didn't.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| JD wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Divac12_NoviBeograd wrote: | | I watched it. Unless I missed something, there was no mention of Kobe nor the Lakers. |
Hey, get that crap outta here. Why ruin a perfectly good rant session on something that never happened. We don't see enough of the kind of thing around here. |
Do you ever wonder why people constantly attack you?
Its lameass comments like that, which provoke it.
Take a look in the mirror. |
The difference is, I'm not serious about it. That makes it that much more fun to taunt those who are.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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NoHarmNoFoul
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:49 am Post subject: |
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Man, I wonder how young some of the people are?? I'm not THAT old, and I remember that it was common knowledge that he cheated A LOT -- he openly admitted this in a book that he wrote.
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Who will you aim your irrational anger at then?"
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