Shaq still moves his old, fat, busted body around better than Bynum. Bynum so naturally uncoordinated that it's not even funny.
Just so damn mechanical.
Tim Duncan.
Lemme finish that thought for you: "has ELITE skills."
Which he was born with?
No dude, Duncan skipped college and went straight to the NBA....oh whoops.
And college coaching is superior to NBA's because?
Yea good point. Playing in real game situations isn't useful.
I didn't know NBA games don't count as "real" game situations.
A) Bynum hasn't play enough game minutes for it to really pay off.
B) College coaches would have spent the majority of their time developing Bynum, as he would be THEIR impact player from the get-go. He would have received minutes, specific training, had offensive and defensive schematics built around him specifically. He isn't going to get that in the NBA playing alongside Kobe Bryant.
So, no way does Bynum ever get the necessary teaching to reach the skill level of Duncan. That's 4 years of college ball that Duncan shows. The NBA can't teach the way college coaches can. _________________ Stephon Marbury on Kobe: "He's the only person on 'dis earth that can do 'dat. He guards people, like shuts 'em down. Then, to do 'dat on 'da offensive end. It's like 'Damn, I can't score on him AND he about to bust my ass."
Well, I guess you're seeing things different from me, because I'm seeing the Lakers giving him all the details as they can. In fact, maybe too much attention that the other guys, i.e Kwame(remember when Mitch said that Kwame shouldn't be running? He probably wasted a few weeks before Mitch told him that), Turiaf, Mihm are being neglected.
5 minutes one game, none the next 4 games, 2 minutes there, none the next 3-4 isn't exactly doing all they can to make sure he succeeds.
College coaching would have him on the court succeeding against boys FAR more often, which would in turn help his overall confidence to develop and use those skills IN game.
Playing very little if often, against MEN that are just as talented, if not moreso, will force Bynum to hold back on trying other things to further develop his skills.
Which is exactly why more often than not, it's best for players to go to college to develop their skills. Not everyone is Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, or LeBron James and as skilled at age 18 as 75% of the NBA at the very least. Nor is every 18 year old the athletically gifted Man-children that Greg Oden, Dwight Howard, Bron, or Amare were at 18-19 years old.
For those that aren't, college is the BEST option for them. _________________ Stephon Marbury on Kobe: "He's the only person on 'dis earth that can do 'dat. He guards people, like shuts 'em down. Then, to do 'dat on 'da offensive end. It's like 'Damn, I can't score on him AND he about to bust my ass."
Last edited by magic_bryant on Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 12 Dec 2002 Posts: 18086 Location: rocky mountain high
Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:11 pm Post subject:
Reallly, Bynum is not ready physically or mentally. Hopefully he can get a constistent 10 MPG this season. And with Mihm's injury he may. He's just farther off to major minutes than we want. _________________ "Why do you think bad things happen, anyway???" "So we have something good to look forward to."
^ I disagree with you there mb. Bynum clearly has the confidence. There is nothing wrong with skipping college as far as the end result of your NBA game.
Name me one player who suffered in his end 'total game' net result. If you're gonna be good, you'll be good. If you dont have the work ethic etc you won't.
Just ask Kwame and Kandi. _________________ Station where the act becomes the art of growing up.
Did you not see the thrashing he gave New Yorks best bigs? He wasn't playing scrubs there. Bynum is special. _________________ Station where the act becomes the art of growing up.
Don't compare Bynum to Shaq until he starts some games. And adds 25 more pounds of muscle. And can shave something other than his head. He's 18 years old for goodness sake.
Bynum will be a very good player IMO, but he is not ready yet, not for a whole season, and not against a big fat, I mean strong veteran like Shaq.
However, it will be alot of fun in 09/10 when a 21/22 year old 310 pound Drew meets a 37/38 year old 380 pound Shaq. Mark your calendars.
Did you not see the thrashing he gave New Yorks best bigs? He wasn't playing scrubs there. Bynum is special.
They are scrubs, save for Curry, who just happens to be the worst starting defensive C in the league. _________________ Stephon Marbury on Kobe: "He's the only person on 'dis earth that can do 'dat. He guards people, like shuts 'em down. Then, to do 'dat on 'da offensive end. It's like 'Damn, I can't score on him AND he about to bust my ass."
He is neither Shaq's dominator nor his (bleep). The kid showed he could hold his own in the post against Shaq atleast in iso's for Shaq inside. From what I remember Shaq had two chances in on Shaq and once kicked it out and the second time missed a shot inside. Doug Collins said he was impressed how Bynum forced Shaq baseline when they matched up in the post. The one time Shaq got the kid was over the back on a bad box out attempt by Bynum (More so showing the lack of fundamentals he has or had at the time)
Ofcourse we all saw how Bynum responded to that.
Bynum and Kwame are some of the few big bodies in the NBA that can take Shaq 1 on 1 inside. Noone stops Shaq 1 on 1, but they can contain him to the point of not needing a double (and basically opening up the game for Miami's shooters and Wade)
Watch a video of young Shaq. they are completely different. He's more like the Shaq of 2005-06 if anything.
Closer comparisons would be Zo.
Dont underrate that comparison. Zo would have easily rivaled Shaq if not for the kidney failure. Zo always had a bad offensive game but won games easily on his defense alone.
Only one other player still playing can do that, Kirilinko. _________________ Station where the act becomes the art of growing up.
Joined: 17 May 2006 Posts: 7428 Location: Making the games you play
Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:30 pm Post subject:
magic_bryant wrote:
la45 wrote:
Ataris_PunK wrote:
la45 wrote:
Ataris_PunK wrote:
Exick wrote:
magic_bryant wrote:
Ataris_PunK wrote:
magic_bryant wrote:
Shaq still moves his old, fat, busted body around better than Bynum. Bynum so naturally uncoordinated that it's not even funny.
Just so damn mechanical.
Tim Duncan.
Lemme finish that thought for you: "has ELITE skills."
Which he was born with?
No dude, Duncan skipped college and went straight to the NBA....oh whoops.
And college coaching is superior to NBA's because?
Yea good point. Playing in real game situations isn't useful.
I didn't know NBA games don't count as "real" game situations.
A) Bynum hasn't play enough game minutes for it to really pay off.
B) College coaches would have spent the majority of their time developing Bynum, as he would be THEIR impact player from the get-go. He would have received minutes, specific training, had offensive and defensive schematics built around him specifically. He isn't going to get that in the NBA playing alongside Kobe Bryant.
So, no way does Bynum ever get the necessary teaching to reach the skill level of Duncan. That's 4 years of college ball that Duncan shows. The NBA can't teach the way college coaches can.
qand kareem isn't. he is probably a better big man coach than most every college ever
I wasn't basking Bynum. I was merely stating that he's not ready and should not be compared to Duncan, just because Duncan is robotic like him. Duncan took 4 years of college basketball to develop those skills where the NBA level talent can afford to jerk around a bit implementing other things into their games against weaker competition.
Bynum doesn't have that luxury, because no one is supremely outmatched by Bynum's size, strength, or skills.
Unless he was playing Eddy Curry everytime.
Bynum will be good. A good defensive presence with some O. That's fine. So, long as he does within a certain time frame, otherwise, the organization made a bad mistake in choosing him over more ready NBA talent and choosing to make him "untouchable" save for "2 players league-wide" that they would trade him for. _________________ Stephon Marbury on Kobe: "He's the only person on 'dis earth that can do 'dat. He guards people, like shuts 'em down. Then, to do 'dat on 'da offensive end. It's like 'Damn, I can't score on him AND he about to bust my ass."
Bynum doesn't have that luxury, because no one is supremely outmatched by Bynum's size, strength, or skills
Noone was by Shaq at 17-18 either.
Granted, Shaq was more skilled coming out of highschool but in terms of size and strength at 17-18, Bynum is actually bigger.
Just go look at some of the pics at the same ages for the two.
Ofcourse the thing that made Shaq special was that he was a GREAT athlete for someone his size. He would be like having Bynum's size with Howard's athleticsim.
So yeah, I doubt anyone is expecting Bynum to be Shaq. The point some are making is that the kid is HUGE. He will have big size and strength advantages over the rest of the league. The thing that he won't have is the athleticism Shaq had. That is what made Shaq a freak. He had that size, strength AND athleticism advantage ..... why is it so hard to admit that Bynum is going to be HUGE by 22/23?
Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
1-on-1 coaching is great and all, but having entire systems and teams built around you is another. Playing 338 total minutes as a scrub that is just in trying to pick up things, is a lot different than playing 4 seasons of college basketball where you're getting consistent minutes and learning how to play with others in the frame of a 5-on-5 competitive game. _________________ Stephon Marbury on Kobe: "He's the only person on 'dis earth that can do 'dat. He guards people, like shuts 'em down. Then, to do 'dat on 'da offensive end. It's like 'Damn, I can't score on him AND he about to bust my ass."
Joined: 17 May 2006 Posts: 7428 Location: Making the games you play
Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:40 pm Post subject:
magic_bryant wrote:
1-on-1 coaching is great and all, but having entire systems and teams built around you is another. Playing 338 total minutes as a scrub that is just in trying to pick up things, is a lot different than playing 4 seasons of college basketball where you're getting consistent minutes and learning how to play with others in the frame of a 5-on-5 competitive game.
well kobe survived, didn't he. he didn't show he was any better than a decent player til his third year. so why condem bynum after a decent year and a hard working summer
1-on-1 coaching is great and all, but having entire systems and teams built around you is another. Playing 338 total minutes as a scrub that is just in trying to pick up things, is a lot different than playing 4 seasons of college basketball where you're getting consistent minutes and learning how to play with others in the frame of a 5-on-5 competitive game.
This is a good point.
However, motivation is a big issue here. How motivated is Bynum? Does he stop at what the team tells him to do or does he go the extra distance like Kobe, JO etc went as young kids? I don't know what he's doing on his personal time but if he is busting his ass the sky is the limit for him.
I mean if he went to college for 2-3 years, he'd probably be a top 3 pick in the draft when he came out. The Lakers thought outside of the box and picked him up years before that knowing they would have no chance to get him when he was actually NBA ready.
If all Bynum does is work to get into the Lakers starting 5 by satisfying what the coaching staff want out of him then maybe he is better off going to college. However if he's learning the NBA game and doing the things that his coaches want from him to play all while he's still working on his individual game - then this is a great situation for him. That's how other high school players made it big. The one's that work out hard by themselves and set personal goals improve trumendously. The one's that are just happy to be a Pro getting paid million, well they end up much worse for it (going to the NBA out of high school)
Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
Bynum doesn't have that luxury, because no one is supremely outmatched by Bynum's size, strength, or skills
Noone was by Shaq at 17-18 either.
Granted, Shaq was more skilled coming out of highschool but in terms of size and strength at 17-18, Bynum is actually bigger.
Just go look at some of the pics at the same ages for the two.
Ofcourse the thing that made Shaq special was that he was a GREAT athlete for someone his size. He would be like having Bynum's size with Howard's athleticsim.
So yeah, I doubt anyone is expecting Bynum to be Shaq. The point some are making is that the kid is HUGE. He will have big size and strength advantages over the rest of the league. The thing that he won't have is the athleticism Shaq had. That is what made Shaq a freak. He had that size, strength AND athleticism advantage ..... why is it so hard to admit that Bynum is going to be HUGE by 22/23?
Shaq was stronger and more skilled. Don't let Bynum's natural size fool you. He's not nearly as strong as his size suggests.
And I agree, eventually, Bynum will be one of the strongest players in the League. But he's not a naturally strong athletic specimen like others that have come before him. Hence, the ever-standing Haywood comparisons. _________________ Stephon Marbury on Kobe: "He's the only person on 'dis earth that can do 'dat. He guards people, like shuts 'em down. Then, to do 'dat on 'da offensive end. It's like 'Damn, I can't score on him AND he about to bust my ass."
1-on-1 coaching is great and all, but having entire systems and teams built around you is another. Playing 338 total minutes as a scrub that is just in trying to pick up things, is a lot different than playing 4 seasons of college basketball where you're getting consistent minutes and learning how to play with others in the frame of a 5-on-5 competitive game.
well kobe survived, didn't he. he didn't show he was any better than a decent player til his third year. so why condem bynum after a decent year and a hard working summer
As I've already stated, Kobe was elitely skilled and athletic at 18. His skills were right there with any other NBA SG's. Did he know to acclimate those skills in a 5-on-5 setting? No. But he learned how to acclimate skills that he already had.
Bynum on the other hand, has to A) learn those skills, B) develop those skills well enough to try them in game, C) learn how to acclimate those skills in game to the point that he's no longer thinking, instead just doing.
I'm confident the kid will be at least a 12 PPG, 9-10 RPG with a couple of blocks-type player. The real questions are: "When will Phil Jackson give him enough minutes to LEARN the game? And can he produce enough to allow the team to continue with their 'win now and later' philosophy that they've adapted?"
If it were up to me, I'd say throw the kid to the wolves with 15-20 MPG and risk lottery, but have the last laugh with a VERY good pick in the draft AND "an ahead of the curve" Bynum.
OR
Trade him for talent ready to win now. _________________ Stephon Marbury on Kobe: "He's the only person on 'dis earth that can do 'dat. He guards people, like shuts 'em down. Then, to do 'dat on 'da offensive end. It's like 'Damn, I can't score on him AND he about to bust my ass."
A bonus about not going to college is that he doesn't have to stress out about grades or waste time studying. Look, there's nothing about college that you couldn't say, well, if this is a disadvantage, then why can't we make it an advantage? And if they wanted him to get game time, they would have sent him to the development league.
IMO, how good he's going to be is going to depend on how much further physically he'll developed, and how much time he's willing to spend on mastering all the skills.
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