LAKERS -at- HEAT - 12/25 - Thoughts and :-(( ratings
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postandpivot
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:42 am    Post subject:

I'm The Dan wrote:
magic_bryant wrote:
Kobe doesn't get the "touch foul" that Wade does on the perimeter. Try to "get into" Wade on the perimeter, like defenders do Bron and Kobe, and it's a foul. Bruce Bowen, Tayshaun Prince, Jared Jeffries, etc have been lauded for "getting into" Kobe and Bron, but if they tried to play defense that same way on Wade, it's a foul.

When Kobe and Bron come off a screen, the defender will "rub" them just enough to slow them down and allow for a recovery by the defender. This play is CONSISTENTLY called a foul for Wade. And defenders know it, hence, they back off most of the time.


I understand that. I think it has to do with size. Iverson gets bounced around like a pinball and he'll get the call. The same hit done on Iverson won't get Wade the call. The same goes for Kobe and Lebron. Both are bigger, bulkier players. It's the same thing as Shaq not going to the line 20+ times a night, even though he probably should as much as he gets hit. It's just that he's so big, he isn't affected by it as much.

Also, don't get me wrong. Wade does get some cheap calls, but so does Kobe. And Lebron. And Carmello. And Iverson. They all get the calls. You can say what you want, but I'm sure Kobe is taking near 10 free throws a game (56k; didn't bother to look it up with the 30 minute load time for all that god forsaken flash on nba.com)

I'm sure Kobe will come out strong next game and put up the 30+ points with the 6+ assists. He just had a bad game, but don't take away from what Wade did. Had Kobe did what Wade done tonight, everyone on here would be on Kobe's junk.


^^you're not understanding what is being said here.

Wade gets iverson calls. but he's not getting hit. he's the one laying on guys while going to the whole. then falling on the ground. if kobe did it. i would call kobe out for trying to play the ref. instead of play basketball. doing that in the 4th quarter. or to foul someone out is one thing. but to do that all game long is another. but to wade's defense. why change if the refs give it to you from the tip off?

kobe goes to the whole and gets hit in front of the ref. and they refuse to call it. thats different then a guy getting a ghost foul from time to time. I'm saying wade/lebron get ghost fouls a good 45% of the time. vs kobe who gets them 10% of the time.

and the world says this guy is the best to touch a basketball since Mjay. how is it that he's so great. but others who play the same position get to the line a lot more then he?

doesn't add up. some say he's a jumpshooter. okay so is gilbert arenas. now what?

kobe will not and has not receive Mjay (after he won a few rings) calls. NEVER. calls that are looked at as questionable even by your own fans.

And I've noticed this season kobe is making a point to go to the whole and draw contact just like the other guy did the play prior. and guess what. the refs give one guy the foul and the other guy(kobe) they sometimes do and sometimes dont. its ridiculous. its bias, its unfair. and it looks pretty obvious there's something going on.
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CorkyTomjanovich
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:15 am    Post subject:

This Turiaf thing is a mystery. He plays so well! The hustle the rebounds, he alters and contests shots.

Somebody please explain to me why this guy is the 11th man on the team?

He should be starting at the 4 even when Odom is healthy. Odom 3, Turiaf 4, Bynum 5.

I will be waiting for it.
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Klone_dd
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:24 am    Post subject:

Another lifeless exhibition. It's like nobody wanted to play on Christmas Day, then they went out and proved it.

DWade set the tone early by getting 10 FT's in the 1st quarter. After that, you don't know what to do with him.

Still, the Lakers allowed another opponent to shoot 50% FGs and got outworked in all the hustle areas.

Bah humbug
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macwebb
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:35 am    Post subject:

I used to think that no one travelled more than Rip "Greyhound" Hamilton when he comes around those screens, but D-Wade has taken it to an all time new level...that whirling dirvish move that he does is unbelievable...

Why that is not called travelling, I do not know...it is a mystery...He takes somewhere around 3 1/2 steps...if he does not make the shot, he get's bailed out by the refs...I am more than upset, especially with the so called new rules designed to cut down on the amount of palming and travelling...I am at the point where, just like Detroit, I cannot watch the Miami Heat...Wade gets away with too much to make it fair to play basketball by the rules...

This is not sour grapes about yesterday's game...The Lakers as a team did not play well...they in no way deserved to win...I attribute this loss to Kobe's illness (He lives for these kinds of games) and the team's lack of energy from the long road trip...If Miami wins in LA, I will concede that they are a better team...until then...no dice Miami...
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MetalMonster
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:44 am    Post subject: Upset

i GOTTA agree with the league giving Wade to many calls in his favor, sure he is a good player but he takes too many dives to get foul calls, his "nice guy" act really has the NBA eating it up. Too much Wade ass kissing in the NBA
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magic_bryant
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 12:53 pm    Post subject:

My only problem with Wade is that he gets nearly every call that he can possibly get, as evidenced when he went around the pick and Turiaf "rubbed" him to try and slow him down for Kobe to recover. It was an immediate foul on Turiaf.

Yet, just last week, James Lang of the Wizards "rubbed" Kobe so hard coming off the pick, that it nearly knocked Kobe into the referee. Kobe looked at the ref, expecting a call, and the ref looked back at him like he was stupid. So, Kobe done the smart thing by immediately attacking, trying to give the ref a chance to give him the makeup call, but instead, Kobe lost the ball after being hit again...still no call.

So, why are perimeter defenders absolutely not allowed to body up/get into/rub Wade, but that's the scouting report on how to guard Kobe, Bron, etc?

And that's why Wade isn't nowhere near Kobe or Bron. They don't even get calls that other SG-SFs get. The refs allow more contact with those 2, because they know they can still play through it.

Does the league think Wade's not good enough to play through it, as well, or something?
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Stephon Marbury on Kobe: "He's the only person on 'dis earth that can do 'dat. He guards people, like shuts 'em down. Then, to do 'dat on 'da offensive end. It's like 'Damn, I can't score on him AND he about to bust my ass."
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A Mad Chinaman
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 1:08 pm    Post subject:

Drifts wrote:
I'm The Dan wrote:
to harp on Wade a bit. Isn't it traveling when Wade does those spin moves? He picks up the dribble before or during the spin (which moves his feet) then takes another two steps toward the basket.
he only takes 2 steps, usually. My only problem is when he spins out of control and throws his body into the defender and he gets bailed out with a call...he did it last night (the one where he was limping afterwards), fortunately Cook wasn't called for the foul.
Phil's take (as noted at the L.A. Times) . . . . "Jackson was in critique mode in other areas before the game, picking at one of Dwyane Wade's signature moves. "He travels on that spin move," Jackson said. "He picks up that pivot foot … everybody knows it. Dwyane Wade can cover so much ground when he makes that move. As you know, he can go 20 feet with that spin move and get to the basket." (http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-lakerep26dec26,0,6187147.story?track=mostviewed-homepage).

Hey, the Heat won this game at home with DWade having a monster game and Kobe having an off-game. In the long picture, if the Lakers play at .500 on this road trip - it's a success.
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angrypuppy
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 1:16 pm    Post subject:

Thanks DB.

Though it is tough to hang this loss on the refereeing, they certainly had a major impact beyond the box score. That strange foul on Kwame by Wade in the first quarter drastically changed the Laker game plan, in that Phil wanted Kwame to play a key role on offense. After Kwame went to the bench after picking up that early second foul, he was never a factor, and Bynum was simply overwhelmed.

I thought Kobe made good decisions on offense for the most part, but there isn't anyone on the Lakers capable of stepping up when he has a poor shooting game. Kwame was an early option, but after that second foul he disappeared. Luke is much easier to defend when teams focus on him as a second option. Vlad is the only other player capable of picking up the slack, but you can't count on a bench player becoming a consistent high scorer.

Kobe is much easier to defend than last year, as I doubt his knee is anywhere as healed as he is claiming. He can't attack the basket with the same frequency, and he's having more trouble when doubled. Where you see Kobe really get clobbered is on defense, as those repeated picks sapping his energy and exposing his inability to accelerate. When Wade stole the ball from Kobe, he couldn't really recover... his legs wouldn't cooperate.

Perhaps Phil wanted Kobe to cover Wade due to the latter's determination and defensive savvy. Perhaps he thought Wade would get less superstar free throws with another superstar covering him. But there was no stopping Wade last night... his shot was on, and the alternatives (Smush and Evans) would have been hopeless.
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A Mad Chinaman
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:33 am    Post subject:

angrypuppy wrote:
Luke is much easier to defend when teams focus on him as a second option.
When Smush is neither a SG or PG (offensively), it leaves players like Luke (a player more inclined to pass, than to score since his strengths is his basketball IQ - not his athletic ability) with fewer options. Plus - add that Luke has an injuried left wrist that he is guarding/careful with.

When Smush is not a force defensively - keeping his man in front and/or making steals, it leaves the Lakers in a hole since they will not have many fastbreaks - points off turnovers. Combine this with the inconsistencies from Cook/Vlad (scoring-wise), it spells trouble when both of these guys are not scoring. When LO is in the game, these deficiencies are often overlooked within the many wins.

Even if we had Miller (he has an undependable mid-range shot, along with learning the Tri), Artest (not known as a consistent shar-shooter), Webber (severe liability on defense while not a dependable shooter at this point of his career), etc. would have helped the Lakers

With Kwame/Bynum getting fouls, instead of getting the opposing players in foul trouble means that our bigs need more expertise in getting this fixed and/or know how to play with refs to not get fouls - maybe being aggressive like Zo would help
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