LAKERS -at- BOBCATS - 12/29 - Thoughts and :-(( ratings
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DancingBarry
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:26 am    Post subject: LAKERS -at- BOBCATS - 12/29 - Thoughts and :-(( ratings

Losing Grip in Triple OT... The Lakers closed out their six-game roadtrip, dropping a triple overtime battle to the Bobcats. They lost control of the game in the third overtime as Kwame's bad hands struck and Kobe fouled a three-point shooter and charged in the final critical possessions.

The Bobcats bled us on the high screen and roll again and again, until Phil finally subbed in Sasha and started getting guys to switch and rotate. Offensively, we climbed on Kobe's back and tried to ride him to victory. Both teams became single-minded in their attacks.

In a triple overtime game, you can look at a lot of things throughout the game to focus in on: A 42-point second quarter by the Bobcats; 20 offensive boards by the Cats; the Lakers high screen-roll defense; Kwame's hands in the third OT; Kobe's defensive sin; Matt Carroll going for 27 points; Failure to capitalize on a couple last-second possessions to win; Badly missing LO's game on both ends... Pick your poison.

They battled. They lost. They go home 3-3...surviving the roadtrip.

Kobe -- -- The peaks and valleys in this game for Kobe had you up and down all night. On the defensive end, Kobe had his hands full trying to defend Wallace in the low post who was overpowering him. He had the death-blow foul in triple overtime to give up three FTs. On the offensive end, he manufactured points, hit huge shots and tried to carry the team with 58 points on 22-45 shooting in 54 minutes before finally fouling out. Kobe was active early on, getting off to a scorching start. He hit an elbow jumper on his first attempt. He blew past Wallace to his left and scored an easy layup. He charged over Wallace on his next attempt. In transition, he attacked the lane, took contact and banked in an And-1 as he went to the ground, he made the FT. He drained a three from the wing in transition on his fourth attempt and make. He fumbled away a sure layup in transition (he had 4 turnovers on the night, losing the grip on the ball a number of times). He missed a three, then he hit his next attempt, a fade in the lane as Wallace fell. Out of a timeout, he cut off the backscreen and threwdown a huge, explosive one-handed oop from Luke. He got blocked in the lane, then he swished a jumper over Morrison on his next attempt. He drained a wing jumper, standing on the three line. He hit a fade in the corner. Wallace was backing Kobe down in the post on a number of occasions and we continually had to send help. Kobe drained a wing three. He missed shots on four straight possessions:, a scoop, a floater and a couple jumpers, before making his fifth attempt, banking on a baseline attack. He gave up an And-1 to Wallace in the post, then got FTs against him on the other end and made both. Kobe had 27 points at the half. Wallace had 15. To start the second hald, Kobe gave up an And-1 to him. He missed a three. He attacked the baseline, spun to shed defenders, reached back and hit a reverse. He got into the lane and whipped a pass out of traffic to Cook for a jumper. He was trapped on the baseline, then escaped with some footwork off the pivot and scooped in a layup. He picked up his fourth foul in the third, trying to fight through a screen, then he picked up a tech (Tech No. 4, I believe) and had to sit shortly later. He missed a three on his first attempt of the fourth. He took off from the high wing screen by Bynum, went into his steps at the FT line, exploded and hammered down an And-1 dunk, he made the FT. He attacked in transition and drew FTs, making both. He iso'd on Carroll and rattled in a turnaround from the elbow. He faked his man in the air, could have drawn contact, but stepped to the side and got tapped on a long jumper. He missed a jumper. He got another man in the air, avoided the contact and missed another open jumper (again, he could have had FTs). He spun away from the double team and knocked down a baseline jumper with 3:33 left to give the Lakers a 2-point lead. With the shotclock low, he iso'd on Wallace and drained a wing three with 2:36 left to give the Lakers a 3-point lead. With Bobcats trying to track him, he worked his way to the elbow, rose up and swished a jumper with 1:47 left to keep the lead at three. He had scored the Lakers last 14 points before missing his next jumper, but Luke got it back and Kobe returned it to him under the hoop for FTs with a minute left. With 3.6 seconds left and the score tied, he got Wallace into the air, tried to avoid contact and missed a game winner.

On to the overtime minutes: He fumbled the ball out of bounds on his first OT possession. He missed a wide open wing pull-up jumper. He drew three non-shooting fouls off the dribble in OT (a key as we could manufacture points on any foul at that point). He whipped a pass to Kwame he rolled to the hoop and scored a layup. He missed a three. He attacked off the dribble, drew Wallace's sixth foul and just missed an And-1 in the lane, he made both FTs to tie the game with 1:07 left in OT. In the second OT, he drew a handcheck foul on Robinson, he then didn't get the ball back until late in the clock and missed a three as the buzzer went off. He attacked off the dribble, drew all kinds of contact in the lane and got tapped on the attempt and stared at the official in disbelief. Down by 4, Kobe attacked to his right, pumpfaked Okafur, got contact and banked in a 13-foot And-1, he bounced the FT in to cut the lead to 1 with 1:15 left. He attacked the baseline, drew contact and a whistle under the hoop, but made just one of two FTs (his first miss, looking tired) to tie the game with 59 seconds left. After Felton hit a three to go up on the other end, Kobe worked off a screen and answered with a huge, huge three of his own to tie the game back up with 21.6 seconds. In the third OT, he set up Kwame for a sure dunk on a drive and dish and Kwame dropped it out of bounds. Kobe missed his next FT short, after attacking from the wing, switching hands and banking in a drive with 2 minutes left. With just over a minute left, the death blow: Kobe hits Anderson on a three-point attempt and we give up 3 FTs to go from trailing by 2 to trailing by 5. Shortly later, Kobe fouled out after charging into Anderson to seal the deal. Kobe's third highest career point total went for naught.

Walton -- -- Luke just battled all night. He hustled for offensive boards, anchored our defensive rotations at times, and led the team with a game-high 5 steals. Not to mention, he challenged shots on the perimeter well, holding Morrison to a miserable 1-15 shooting. Luke had 7 offensive boards on the night, finishing with 11 total to go with 14 points on 5-10 shooting. We probably should have featured him a little more in the post when he had smaller men on him. He played 49:48 of game, second highest for the Lakers. Early on, he posted up and hit his fade over Morrison. He blocked Morrison's reverse layup attempt. He hit Kobe for an alley-oop throwdown out of a timeout. Nice hustle for an offensive board, then he hit a short fade over Okafor. He hustled again for an offensive board, reset the offense and Farmar scored a layup. He swiped the ball from Carroll on the baseline. He curled off a screen, took the feed in the lane, then hit Kwame for a layup (very nice Tri play). He shielded the bigger defender with body and scored a layup in transition. He came off a screen and knocked down a FT jumper. Nice steal, stepping in front of his man to swipe a pass in the paint. He helped cause back-to-back turnovers, one on a double team with Smush, the other knocking away a backdoor feed to Wallace. He swiped the ball out of Ely's hands under the hoop for another steal. He posted up Anderson and drew FTs, making both. Great job battling on the offensive glass to pull out the ball and reset the offense, Kobe then fed it right back to Luke and he missed an And-1 at the front of the hoop over Wallace, but he made both FTs with 1 minute left in regulation. He scored a layup in OT when Smush spotted him open under the hoop. He challenged Carroll's jumper well and we got the miss. He pulled down a Kwame missed FT in the second OT, then was stripped as he went up.

Smush -- -- I don't know what we were doing on the Smush/Kwame pick and roll D in some of the crunch time action. The Bobcats ran a series of high screen-rolls, Smush and Kwame got chewed for a floater by Felton and dunks twice in a row (Smush going over the top, Kwame flashing over and Okafor wide open for the dunk). Smush then shaded Felton to the baseline, while Kwame sagged and Felton drained an open jumper. We just never seemed to be on the same page, caught in no-man's land before Phil finally subbed Smush out for Sasha and then started getting guys to rotate. We got bled badly, maybe they learn from it. Smush scored 12 points on 5-10 shooting, had 3 assists, 2 boards, 1 steal and 1 block in 46:29 of run. He missed a long three trying to beat the shotclock. He attacked off the dribble and went glass over his man. He pushed out in transition, cleared the defender out of the way with a swift ball fake and scored a layup. He got a step on his man, attacked down the lane and scooped in a finger roll around the help defenders. He tried to post up Felton and threw up an awkward shot and missed. Good hustle to save a ball back inbounds to teammates. He hit an elbow jumper, pulling up in transition. He drew a foul trying to seal his man and made both FTs. Poor decision to double off Carroll for Ely in the post and it gave up a three. Horrible outlet pass, trying to throw a shallow outlet pass over Wallace with 3 minutes and it was picked off (can't have careless possessions at that point of the game). Huge jumper by Smush with 47 seconds left in regulation, he hit from 18-feet behind Kobe and over Wallace before hitting the floor to give the Lakers a 3-point lead. He hit Luke under the hoop in OT for a layup. We then got killed by the pick and roll time and time again. Smush nearly had a steal at the end of OT, knocking it loose, then Kwame challenged Felton's three attempt. In the second OT, Smush went under the screen, but ran into Kwame who was in no-man's land and Okafor got another dunk. He sat for Sasha for a lengthy stretch. Sensational help D in triple OT to come out of nowhere to block a sure layup from behind.

Kwame -- -- Kwame was a key weak link in the third overtime when the wheels came off. He had a couple of dropped passes that would have been sure dunks. He also seemed to be in the mix of many key defensive breakdowns. Despite his good rebound numbers, he gave up too many second chances late in the game. Some of that may overshadow the good, which included 5 blocks he had tallied earlier and that he controlled every jumpball in the game, which allowed us to have first possession on each overtime. Kwame scored 11 points on 4-10 shooting (a poor 3-8 from the line), had 15 rebounds and 4 turnovers in 45 minutes. He swatted Wallace trying to post up Kobe. He missed an easy look too hard off the glass after losing his man. He swatted Wallace again, this time on a reverse layup. He banged Okafor out of position, took the post entry and scored with ease. He swatted Felton to the ground and recovered the ball. He grabbed a blocked Laker shot under the hoop, turned and dunked. He got trampled on under the boards and went to the bench holding his wrist, they took x-rays and wrapped it up and he went back out. He scored off a great interior feed from Luke who came off a screen. He got beat down the court in transition by Okafor for a putback dunk. He drew FTs on the break and bricked both. He drew a foul in the lane and made both FTs. He pulled down an offensive board, drew a foul and made one FT. He poked a post entry loose for a turnover. He couldn't secure a high defensive board and it led to two FTs late in the game. In the last minute, he tried to take a block on Wallace, the officials said he was in the restricted area and Wallace scored a 3-point play to tie the game. He took a Kobe feed in the paint and scored a layup around a group of late defenders. Good challenge on a Felton three and it forced a miss at the end of the first OT. Kwame drew FTs in the second OT and missed both with 4 minutes left (those hurt). The Lakers were switching on everything, Kwame tried to take a charge on the baseline, went down with no call, Luke had to leave Felton to help, then Felton hit a three to go up by that many late in the second OT. And, of course, we had the Kwame/Smush pick and roll issues in crunch time. Then, we went to the third OT. Bad hands strike early in triple OT as Kobe draws the D, dished to Kwame under the hoop and he fumbles it right out of bounds. Okafor took an offensive board from Kwame and hit a short hook over him. He picked up his second completely weak offensive foul (the first was what they said was a clearout as Kwame scored earlier in the game, no way), this time Kwame apparently turned too hard to go up for a turnaround jumper and was whistled, weak. Bad hands struck again as Luke fed Kwame for what would have been a dunk after Luke was doubled, but it went between Kwame's legs, turnover. "It's sad that you've got to say we won or lost that game over a fumble," Kwame said in the Daily News. "The second pass wasn't even catchable. If you look on tape, we are the worst pick-and-roll defensive team in the league. No way Emeka Okafor (should) get three layups at the rim. The reason why big men drop passes is because of pressure of a guard rotating over. We don't even rotate. Guys get layups at the rim. That's terrible, that's terrible."... The man makes a good point.

Cook -- -- Cook started, again we had defensive rebound issues missing LO's ability to hold down the fort. We also missed LO's defensive versatility as Cook couldn't match up with the smaller Bobcat lineups and had to sit. Cook played just 22 minutes and scored 9 points on 4-7 shooting, grabbed 6 boards and had 4 fouls in that time. He faked the pinch post handoff, took the dribble to the FT line and hit a jumper. He worked the low pinch post with Kwame and hit a baseline jumper. He picked up a couple of fouls contesting and had to sit midway through the first. He missed a pinch post jumper. He drained a wide open wing three on a kickout from Kobe. He knocked down a 15-footer on the baseline off a drive and kick from Kobe. He missed an open, pull-up jumper.

Radmanovic -- -- It seemed like we were playing Vlad for defensive purposes at times because he certainly got nothing done offensively. He seemed like a liability anytime he touched the ball. Having him out there for his D is not a situation we want to be in. Vlad scored just 2 points on 0-5 shooting, grabbed 3 boards and had a couple of turnovers. He missed a pull-up wing jumper in transition. He had the ball swiped by Wallace for a breakaway dunk at the end of the first. He missed a baseline jumper. He took Ely off the dribble, drew FTs and made both. Horrible outlet to Mo, way too far out in front and we turned it over. He missed a turnaround from 16 feet. He took the post feed and was called for three seconds before he traveled. He missed an open wing three.

Bynum -- 8) -- Some serviceable minutes from Bynum. He did a good job challenging shots and grabbing boards. He played just 17:33 and scored 4 points on 1-2 shooting, pulled down 6 boards and blocked 2 shots. Hard to say how we would have done with Bynum out there in OT versus Kwame. He would have hung back on the pick and rolls and played for the shot, but he does get chewed up himself on those at times. He has better hands than Kwame and probably would have dunked off both of those feeds in triple OT, not to mention we could have worked the post a little more. When push came to shove, though, Phil left him on the bench. Early on Bynum drew a charge on Morrison without hitting the deck. He posted up Voskuhl, bumped him out of position and scored an easy jumphook from a couple feet away. Good contest on a Wallace post up, then he gathered the board. He missed a jumphook off the glass. He posted up Voskuhl at the end of the third and drew his fifth foul on a turnaround jumper, he made both FTs. He hit Sasha coming off a screen for an open jumper. Great help D, packing Wallace badly, then controlling the ball to start the break. He came over to help Vlad again against Wallace and Wallace immediately traveled. He deflected a pass and it ignited the break. Good contest on Felton to avoid a foul and get a miss. A lot of quality defensive notes there, but he didn't see any PT.

Turiaf -- -- He picked up three quick fouls on some help D in a short, 3-minute stint in the second. He didn't see PT again. (He's probably our best defending big when it comes to the pick and roll.)

Evans -- -- Some up and down minutes from Mo. He got some serious run in the overtimes as we matched up small and athletic with the Bobcats. Mo scored 8 points on 2-6 shooting (4-6 FTs) and grabbed 5 boards in 38 minutes. He let Wallace get loose in transition for an alley-oop. He faked a shot at the FT line, attacked, drew a foul and made both FTs. He drew a foul in transition and missed both FTs. He drew more FTs on a turnaround and made both. Nice D, swatting Voskuhl under the hoop and controlling it. With 35.8 left in the first OT, he attacked off the dribble, pulled up and hit a clutch 12-footer in the lane to tie the score. He missed a corner three in the second OT. In the third OT, he curled to the post then drained a turnaround over Carroll from 10 feet out. They went to it again, but this time Evans missed the short turnaround over Felton.

Farmar -- -- Not much run for Farmar in this game as Carroll started to go off while Farmar was covering him. He played just 6 minutes and scored 2 points on 1-2 shooting. He attacked down the lane and scooped in a layup. He fouled a three-point shooter, giving up a 4-point play. He got blocked under the hoop on an attack off a Bynum screen. He gave up another three to Carrol.

Vujacic -- -- With Smush getting chewed up and Phil not liking Farmar's earlier minutes, Sasha got some key run in this game. He helped put a stop to the pick and roll problems we were having and played some key minutes. Sasha scored 4 points on 2-3 shooting and grabbed a couple boards in 13 minutes. He hit a wing jumper, standing on the three line. He gave up an And-1 on penetration to Carrol that had Turiaf (who picked up the foul) ticked. Hey, a rare midrange set-up for Sasha to start the fourth quarter and he knocked down the 17 footer from the wing. Sasha came in for Smush to help defend the pick and roll in overtime. In the double OT, he flashed to the inbounds pass with 2.2 seconds left, didn't get it and didn't cycle out of the way for Kobe to get the pass. When Kobe got it, he was 40 feet from the hoop with Sasha's man doubling him. Yikes.

Phil -- -- The game became very myopic down the stretch with the Bobcats high screens and the Lakers depending on Kobe too much. Phil seemed late to react to our pick and roll bleeding. And had problems getting the team to click in their Tri execution. "I was yelling at them to run their offense and get away from that," Phil said of the team's going to Kobe again and again. "They just seemed to be going back to him all the time."... Phil picked up a tech early on arguing about a non-call for Kobe... The Farmar, Sasha, Evans, Vlad, Bynum second unit lost the Lakers lead at the start of the second, helping ignite the Cats big second quarter. Phil went to a Turiaf/Bynum combo frontcourt briefly but Ronny got into quick foul trouble... The Lakers gave up a Bobcat franchise record 42 points in the second quarter after holding them to 18 points in the first 12 minutes. They gave up 9 offensive boards in the first half and the coaches pointed to that as a key factor... With 3.6 left and the ball out of bounds in regulation, Phil called a timeout. We got an iso situation for Kobe and he missed the jumper... After getting bled on the high screen roll between Felton/Okafor and Smush/Kwame for dunks, jumpers and floaters in the overtime, Phil then went with Sasha instead of Smush. Finally, they started switching and rotating... Because Luke took a dribble after rebounding, we had to take two timeouts to advance the ball to our end with 2.2 seconds left in the second OT. We ended up getting the ball to Kobe 40 feet away from the hoop against a double team. Great. Kobe tried to pass but it was too late. Triple OT... Phil taking a crack at Kwame: "We're going to feed him Butterfingers on the flight home just so he can feel the effects of it. There was certainly some disappointment in the ability - or non-ability - of Kwame to complete plays that we thought were big plays for us."...
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angel
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:28 am    Post subject:

Thanks DB!

Yikes! the never ending game!
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Mr. EiGhTy-OnE
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:40 am    Post subject:

I can't believe we gave up 42 points in the 2nd qtr to the Bobcats.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:51 am    Post subject:

angel wrote:

Yikes! the never ending game!


Tell me about it. Took forever to cover this game. I was so tempted to peak at the score at the beginning of the fourth. That would have just killed me having to do notes for a quarter and three OTs knowing we would lose. Glad I didn't, this one was hard enough to get through and try to make sure I got good details all the key plays ... that kept going...and going... and going...

I'm going to go watch a movie or read a book. I'm burnt.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:58 am    Post subject:

Damn those hands.

Vlad needs to get in gear or that contract becomes dead weight. The hand excuse wears thin w/ me considering he said he doesnt even feel it unless he gets hit. Showing up once in five games doesn't cut it.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 1:26 am    Post subject:

With games like this - Kobe taking all the shots and the rest of team just watching - I wonder what it was? Was it kobe taking all the shots or was it the rest of the team passing out their shots? It will be a while until I see the game (thank to all the seeders and specially to Kobekillinu!)...

Looking at stats I continue my mantra - Lakers need a decent PF to get some chance in playoffs. It's good to see Phil testing Turiaf at this spot (this time with Bynum), but Ronny has choked on this chance. We only have got a lot of fouls from him when he plays PF position. Sad. Cook - he plays at his level. It's just that this level is not good enough for Lakers. Lakers need better. Radmanovic was a big hope and he started the season as if he would really fit. But I guess it was a pure optimism with no solid base.

Too bad Farmar had only few minutes of play. He has shown that he can learn from hes mistakes. If he did not succeed during the first strech, he might have done it later on. Sasha has been providing lately (especially defencively). Do you think he will get more minutes now?
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:05 am    Post subject:

triple thanks, DB
ok, the nine rings, blah blah blah...
ok, he's doing a great work with this bunch of scrubs (because, yes, most of these "young and learning" players are nothing more than scrubs)...
but can you tell me why phil's teams are never able to defend against p&r?... it's shaq's and fish's fault?... probable... it's smush's and kwame's fault?... more than probable... but every season and with every line-up we don't have any countermove... it's becoming embarassing...
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 5:48 am    Post subject:

Great recap DB! You need 3 days off after this debacle

Stat of the Night: Felton 15 assists. Lakers only 16 assists in 63 minutes of play.

I'm putting the majority of this loss on Kobe. 45 shots? Sure he got 50+, but how can the rest of his teammates get any confidence if Kobe is shooting 45 of the 100 shots? THIS is why I think LO is the more complete player.

Kwame had 15 boards, but he should have had a 20/20 game last night. Missed FTs, turnovers, and not going up strong 100% of the time helped seal our fate
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lakers4peat
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 5:52 am    Post subject:

sorry, double post.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 5:52 am    Post subject:

Great summary, DB.
What a disappointing Game!
I stayed up till 4:30 a.m. here in Germany only to see the Lakers go down.

Some points:

"The Lakers depending on Kobe too much" [in overtime] is an understatment IMHO. The gameplan seemed to be: get the ball in the opponent's half, get it to Kobe, then get out of the way. Basically, like the announcers mentioned at one point, the Tri was replaced by a one-man-offense. Ugly, and ultimately not effective.

Rebounding: The Bobcats managed 20 offensive rebounds, and a ton of of second chance points [don't know the amount exactly]. It seemed like the Lakers got weaker and weaker in that aspect the longer the game lasted. How about boxing out once in a while. It was disgusting to watch.

Defense: It really seems like no work is put into practicing defensive rotations and pick and roll defense by the coaching staff. DB mentioned the sequences, where they ran the same play over and over with quite some success (pick and roll at the left wing with Felton and Okafor). I felt humiliated. They gave up 42 points in the second quarter alone, to the Bobcats!!!

Breakdowns by the fringe impact players (Kwame and Smush) in decisive situations of the Game. Smush threw a transition pass directly into the hands of an opponent after a great stop. Kwame gave up one big O board that hurt a lot and fumbled away the thread by Luke.


Man, what a nerve wrecking loss! The good thing is there's a next game.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:26 am    Post subject:

You guys should have been there...... :roll: Kobe played hard coming off the flu & knee issues. Key play in my mind was end of reg. Kwame allows 3 point play.....Foul the guy and make him earn 2. We still have a 1 point lead and the ball.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:39 am    Post subject:

DB - How do you compare 04-05 defense and what it has been these last 2 weeks?

Really starting to get worried. Lakers are giving up nearly 108 ppg since Odom went down (last 9 games). The FG% is 47.7 .. nearly 48%. What can we do to change this?

For the season - 100.8 ppg agaisnt. That is just too high unless you're the Pheonix Suns.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 8:43 am    Post subject:

8750 wrote:
triple thanks, DB
ok, the nine rings, blah blah blah...
ok, he's doing a great work with this bunch of scrubs (because, yes, most of these "young and learning" players are nothing more than scrubs)...
but can you tell me why phil's teams are never able to defend against p&r?... it's shaq's and fish's fault?... probable... it's smush's and kwame's fault?... more than probable... but every season and with every line-up we don't have any countermove... it's becoming embarassing...


My $0.02.

Somebody has mentioned it already. Players' IQ - that's what makes defense (especially on the pick&roll) click. Plus the guard has to have quick feet.

Shaq, with his great natural abilities, hated to play defense, period (until "it matters" per his definition). Fish did not have a foot speed and always was going "under" the screen.

Combined BB IQ of Smush and Kwame is in single digits territory. Bad combination, IMHO. "Matador" offensively Sasha is simply smarter than Smush.

What eventually killed us in Phoenix series? - Pick&Roll in the simpliest form when either Smush or Kwame switched defensively to Diaw/Thomas (Smush) or Nash (Kwame)...
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:08 am    Post subject:

golakersgo121 wrote:
8750 wrote:
triple thanks, DB
ok, the nine rings, blah blah blah...
ok, he's doing a great work with this bunch of scrubs (because, yes, most of these "young and learning" players are nothing more than scrubs)...
but can you tell me why phil's teams are never able to defend against p&r?... it's shaq's and fish's fault?... probable... it's smush's and kwame's fault?... more than probable... but every season and with every line-up we don't have any countermove... it's becoming embarassing...


My $0.02.

Somebody has mentioned it already. Players' IQ - that's what makes defense (especially on the pick&roll) click. Plus the guard has to have quick feet.

Shaq, with his great natural abilities, hated to play defense, period (until "it matters" per his definition). Fish did not have a foot speed and always was going "under" the screen.

Combined BB IQ of Smush and Kwame is in single digits territory. Bad combination, IMHO. "Matador" offensively Sasha is simply smarter than Smush.

What eventually killed us in Phoenix series? - Pick&Roll in the simpliest form when either Smush or Kwame switched defensively to Diaw/Thomas (Smush) or Nash (Kwame)...
I honestly think it has to do more with phil's defensive philosophy. There is no other way you can explain how his Lakers teams have always had P N R problems...i mean we had lindsey hunter at times...weve had some good defenders...the way he wants it defended/allows it to happen (no double teaming) invites a steady dose it of all the time.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:32 am    Post subject:

I give Vlad till the end of the season. If he cannot show something by then (consistency) we should look to trade him. It appears that when they signed him they believed he was more similar to a guy like Turkoglu. However, it is becoming clear that Vlad is a volume shooter. He is better suited for a free flowing offense. Plus his defense is just awful.

I'm not afraid to say Devean George would be more valuable to us. You could have had him defending Wallace last night instead of having Kobe mismatched against him.

I'm also so tired of Kwame Brown. You watch a guy like Emeka and then you watch Kwame and it makes you sick. There is a reason Kwame is a bust and players like Emeka go on to have allstar careers. This team will never win a playoff series with Kwame in the starting lineup. You may think that is going a little too far but almost every game in the playoffs are grind it out type of games where every possession is critical. Kwame is going to at least make 2 game changing mistakes. It's just in his DNA to (bleep) it up.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:18 am    Post subject:

if kwame grabbed maybe 1 rebound in any of the overtimes or near the end of the 4th we probably would have won. how does a center go 20 minutes without a rebound? and kobe, well ur decision making isn't the greatest but the team is equally to blame with not running the offense. theh ball really has to be in luke's hands late game because he knows the offense and he has the balls and intelligence to run it instead of just giving the ball to kobe.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:46 am    Post subject:

Freakout wrote:
I give Vlad till the end of the season. If he cannot show something by then (consistency) we should look to trade him. It appears that when they signed him they believed he was more similar to a guy like Turkoglu. However, it is becoming clear that Vlad is a volume shooter. He is better suited for a free flowing offense. Plus his defense is just awful.

I'm not afraid to say Devean George would be more valuable to us. You could have had him defending Wallace last night instead of having Kobe mismatched against him.

I'm also so tired of Kwame Brown. You watch a guy like Emeka and then you watch Kwame and it makes you sick. There is a reason Kwame is a bust and players like Emeka go on to have allstar careers. This team will never win a playoff series with Kwame in the starting lineup. You may think that is going a little too far but almost every game in the playoffs are grind it out type of games where every possession is critical. Kwame is going to at least make 2 game changing mistakes. It's just in his DNA to (bleep) it up.


Quote:
I'm not afraid to say Devean George would be more valuable to us.


You lost me right there

On Okafor. He is a very good player. Very good. Never will be great. Poor man Elton Brand. I am not sure if Kwame will ever become better than him, or will be a bust (still - too early to say, IMHO, based on the progress he has made for these two seasons). Bigs rarely get any good until they are 27-28, or come from great (fundamentally) BB programs...
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Freakout
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:52 am    Post subject:

golakersgo121 wrote:
Freakout wrote:
I give Vlad till the end of the season. If he cannot show something by then (consistency) we should look to trade him. It appears that when they signed him they believed he was more similar to a guy like Turkoglu. However, it is becoming clear that Vlad is a volume shooter. He is better suited for a free flowing offense. Plus his defense is just awful.

I'm not afraid to say Devean George would be more valuable to us. You could have had him defending Wallace last night instead of having Kobe mismatched against him.

I'm also so tired of Kwame Brown. You watch a guy like Emeka and then you watch Kwame and it makes you sick. There is a reason Kwame is a bust and players like Emeka go on to have allstar careers. This team will never win a playoff series with Kwame in the starting lineup. You may think that is going a little too far but almost every game in the playoffs are grind it out type of games where every possession is critical. Kwame is going to at least make 2 game changing mistakes. It's just in his DNA to (bleep) it up.


Quote:
I'm not afraid to say Devean George would be more valuable to us.


You lost me right there

On Okafor. He is a very good player. Very good. Never will be great. Poor man Elton Brand. I am not sure if Kwame will ever become better than him, or will be a bust (still - too early to say, IMHO, based on the progress he has made for these two seasons). Bigs rarely get any good until they are 27-28, or come from great (fundamentally) BB programs...


Devean has outplayed Rad so far this season and he costs 4 million less.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:59 am    Post subject:

People keep focusing the pick-and-roll, yet unless you have a guy like Zo or Oden, there is no sure way of defending it. I mean, the pick-and-roll is the most fundamental and bread-and-butter play of almost every team, if you take that away, then how exactly are they going to score?

Our trouble was that we did not score enough in the OTs. To keep focusing on something that clearly cannot be fixed is fruitless.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:12 pm    Post subject:

IMO, Bynum's defense was good, but it could have been a lot better. There was a couple of possessions where he didn't help out his teammates as he should have. The first instance was when Carroll got free in the corner. You can tell immediately that Farmar was too far away(he still tried to challenge it, and Carroll got the 4-point play), that's when Bynum should have recognized and switched out, and since his man is a jump-shooter, he won't have to worry about him posting Farmar. Most likely, the Bobcats will try the small on big, and when it's a guard vs a big, the big's length wins almost every time(in random instances, and not over a long period of time, because the guard and his teammates will adjust.)

The 2nd instance is Ronny and Sasha getting beat on the baseline. He should have seen that both were going to get beat. If he had came over, Ronny probably would have sensed him and let him block it, as he had a better angle, instead of picking up the foul.

Those two plays and the moving pick are things that really stood out to me. Other than that, I'm happy with his progress. He really surprised me with some of his leaping ability, like the play where he saved a looseball that looked like it was going to go out of bounds, and the play where he contested Wallace's shot(which I thought should have been a block, and he was given a block, after halftime), trying to post up Kobe.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 1:47 pm    Post subject:

TheProdigy wrote:
People keep focusing the pick-and-roll, yet unless you have a guy like Zo or Oden, there is no sure way of defending it. I mean, the pick-and-roll is the most fundamental and bread-and-butter play of almost every team, if you take that away, then how exactly are they going to score?

Our trouble was that we did not score enough in the OTs. To keep focusing on something that clearly cannot be fixed is fruitless.


When you are giving up uncontested dunks on multiple occasions that's a problem. If that couldn't be fixed you'd have teams dunking on every possession. There are multiple ways to defend the PnR with success. We weren't doing it until very late in the game.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 1:52 pm    Post subject:

TheProdigy wrote:

The 2nd instance is Ronny and Sasha getting beat on the baseline. He should have seen that both were going to get beat. If he had came over, Ronny probably would have sensed him and let him block it, as he had a better angle, instead of picking up the foul.



Disagree on this one. The two of them weren't going to get beat if they played it one of two ways. A. Show/recover where Ronny stays until Sasha gets in front of his man (which is what Ronny wanted and was angry about with Sasha) B. Trap and try to come up with a turnover (which is what Sasha wanted) and hope the man doesn't pass out of the trap and put you in a position where you can't recover.

Both players were on different pages and ended up no-man's land...and got exploited. Two guys should be able to deal with one player, can't put blame on Bynum on that. Sasha had time to recover with Ronny showing, but he decided to trap. That was the mistake.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 2:08 pm    Post subject:

8750 wrote:
triple thanks, DB
ok, the nine rings, blah blah blah...
ok, he's doing a great work with this bunch of scrubs (because, yes, most of these "young and learning" players are nothing more than scrubs)...
but can you tell me why phil's teams are never able to defend against p&r?... it's shaq's and fish's fault?... probable... it's smush's and kwame's fault?... more than probable... but every season and with every line-up we don't have any countermove... it's becoming embarassing...


I don't like that we seem to be so often not on the same page regarding the pick and roll. It often seems like the guard is planning to play it different than the bigman. If Phil tells them to defend the pick and roll A, B, C, D or E methods...they should be able to switch gears and do that. Guard goes under the screen; Guard goes over the screens; both players trap the ball handler and make him pass; switch on everything; show, rotate and recover to a different man. They should be able to switch gears on all of these and be on the same page.

I think with Shaq, he was going to play it the way he wanted to no matter what Phil wanted. That seemed clearly the case. I don't know about these guys. They seem willing. They should be drilled enough where they can switch gears depending on the opponent. When Smush was in early on, we were out of whack. When Sasha came it, they seemed to be on the same page. I don't know if that was lack of communication with Smush and his bigmen, or just the team finally "getting it" when Sasha was out there.

It seemed to really be a point of frustration for the whole team during and after the game. I hope this is something they can build on because of that. It would be a good opportunity for Phil to take advantage of. I don't feel confident they will, but who knows?

Thankfully, we have a rookie guard on the bench who is extremely slippery on picks, hustles on D, and likes to communicate on D. Perhaps, that will help us. I still think we need a big guard who can switch on bigger players when the need arises.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 2:14 pm    Post subject:

I keep hearing Rod Serling's voice, saying... "Consider the case of the Lakers... They are about to meet the lowly Bobcats, and a certain Kobe Bryant, the much-heralded star of the Lakers, will go off, for 58 points... It is expected to be just another easy win, to wind up a hard road trip...Problem is, the Bobcats have something else in mind... The Lakers are about to step into 'The Twilight Zone'"...



I thought we had found something special... I thought Phil had finally seen the same thing, as I did. We had established a nice two-team set up, where Kobe, and Smush, would head up the starting team, and Farmar, and Sasha would lead an energy team, from the bench, to spark the team, and spell some of the starters... What I saw was a return to that struggling team, of yesteryear, where Kobe carries the majority of the load, while the rest of the team does some kind of clown act.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 2:23 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
DB - How do you compare 04-05 defense and what it has been these last 2 weeks?

Really starting to get worried. Lakers are giving up nearly 108 ppg since Odom went down (last 9 games). The FG% is 47.7 .. nearly 48%. What can we do to change this?


The last couple of weeks have been rough. But what are we going to do? Are we going to stay that way? Not if we get healthy. In the meantime, we have to survive. Last night was pretty close to the 04-05 season because we couldn't stop the bleeding. Even though we may not be showing it at the moment, we're going to be better than that 04-05 defense.

A. We aren't healthy. Kobe's not moving well defensively at times and losing Lamar has a ripple effect in our match ups, since we sometimes toggle him among SF, PF, and C defensively for favorable matchups at other positions. Turiaf's health is also an issue.

B. Bynum has potential to anchor this D a lot better that Mihm. We saw a couple wins on this roadtrip because of that. Phil sometimes trusts him/sometimes doesn't in the crunch.

C. Kwame takes off a lot of burden from LO vs. the 04-05 season when we didn't have him. LO was constantly in foul trouble and constantly overmatched. Because we can switch Kwame between PF/C, we can use that to our advantage.

D. PG depth. Chucky/Tierre...worst defensive guard duo ever. We still need another guard, IMO, but Smush, Farmar, Sasha are still better defensively than Chucky/Tierre, regardless of people's lack of memory. That was beyond horrible. I can't imagine having that duo with no Lamar right now. Oh wait, yeah, we tanked badly at the end of that season.

If we don't make any trades this season, the key for us is at the PG/C spots. Kwame and Smush are inconsistent...Bynum and Farmar are too green. How well we can overcome that may determine how far this team goes.

It's going to be ugly for a while, but we just have to keep surviving.
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