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Walter Sobchak
Star Player
Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 4520
Location: Hollywood, Ca.
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 Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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There's two simple reasons why this trade would make sense:
#1 - Kwame is expendable. Kwame makes $8.2 mil this year and $9 mil next year, but his place in the future of the team is a big question mark. Is there a starting position for him on a future team that features Bynum, Odom and either Luke or someone like AK-47? I don't think so, I think he's a future bench player for the Lakers (if he isn't one already). Will the Lakers be able to keep Kwame for more like a $2-$3 million deal when he becomes a FA next summer? After all, you wouldn't want to be paying a sub more than that (look at Vlad). My guess is if the Lakers don't trade Kwame, he'll leave as a FA for more money elsewhere cause it won't make sense to pay him market value to keep him on the team as a sub.
#2 - If you're adding AK-47, Luke is expendable Luke's not expendable on the current roster, but if you suddenly add an All Star DPOY candidate at his position, then any backup small forwards are going to be as expendable as Lamar's backups would be. In the future of that hypothetical lineup you're going to have Bynum, Odom, Kirilenko and Kobe all going 35-40 minutes a game, which means there's 8-13 minutes of reserve minutes per game for the bench guys at those positions. Luke's contributions would be minimal on that team anyway, so it's ok to trade him for someone of Kirlilenko's stature.
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Just a reminder folks: "a lot" is two words. So is "no one". |
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THE_SHOES
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 29556
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| lionballer7 wrote: | | THE_SHOES wrote: | | Quote: | In terms of chemistry - WE WON THE TITLE WITH SHAQ AND KOBE DIVIDING OUR LOCKER ROOM!!!
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Good point. Those two had the potential to win twice the tittles they did.
If we've learned anything from the past it is that a lot of bull (bleep) in the lockeroom doesn't work... |
 lol... I thought you were checking out of this thread??? 
| Quote: | | Don't get mad Osama, this is just a joke anyway... What you, and I and others should do is not let this thread find its way into double digits... Lets pack our (bleep), and head the (bleep) out of here... |
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I'm serious now... It has gone buck wild! Gone!
SSSSSSSsssssswwwwwwwwiiiiiiiiiiiiiissssssssssshhhhhhhhh!!!!
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"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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angrypuppy
Retired Number
Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 32754
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| lionballer7 wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | As a member of the great unwashed, I'll add (again) that AK47's contract extends to 2011. Maybe I'm not as sophisticated as you non-homers, but I'm sure you're going to tell me that Buss will pay Kobe, Lamar, Bynum, AK47 max contracts and still have money of key reserves... all the while avoiding the luxury tax threshold.
Unlike fantasy leagues, chemistry is important. So is planning beyond the fantasy season. |
Where is the lux tax going to be in 2011? Do we know? What we DO know is that LUKE gets a raise THIS SUMMER and Kwame's deal goes up to $9,000,000 THIS SUMMER, so it's highly likely that Buss will pay LESS to AK47 next year than to Kwame & Luke.
Do the Lakers move Odom as a last year in 08-09, or do they give him a max extension? It will probably depend on how he's playing.
In any event, Odom, Sasha and Cook all expire before Bynum is due a max deal, so the point is moot.
In terms of chemistry - WE WON THE TITLE WITH SHAQ AND KOBE DIVIDING OUR LOCKER ROOM!!!
Loving each other is not the key to winning - it's having the right guys on the court doing the right things at the right time. That's talent and coaching. |
Chemistry, meaning on the court chemistry. AK47 is not a known cancer or even a bad team mate. BUT THANKS FOR THE CAPS!
Incidentally, we could stick our heads in the sand and pretend that the luxury tax threshold could be an infinite number. But something tells me that with Kobe, Lamar, Bynum and AK47 all sporting max contracts, we'll be somewhere very close to the luxury tax threshold (somewhere in the neighborhood of $75 million for 4 players). |
Well, then we worry about that when we get to that bridge.
Guess what, then we get to trade LO or Kirikenko for solid role players with cheaper K's and draft picks, then keep the cycle.
In the meanwhile, we would reap the benefits of having Bynum on a rookie K. |
That's just it... it sets off a series of changes.
Now consider the window of opportunity. It took this team a full year to start executing the tri. I do know that Sloan was disenchanted with AK47 learning Utah's offense, which is much, much simpler than the tri. Language? BB IQ? I dislike venturing into that void... but suffice to say he may not learn the offense this year or perhaps most of next... or ever.
Then as of X date, he might be ready, only we'll have to make a personnel decision on Lamar, forcing another learning experience on the new role players and playing units.
I'm not opposed to trading Luke or Kwame for the right player. I like AK47, but there are questions as to his health, his ability to learn the tri, the other personnel moves that will be forced in the name of financial engineering, or the window of opportunity for a championship.
I think we can compete as early as next season with the current group. |
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postandpivot
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 36822
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | AK also has a history of getting nicked up regularly, probably because of his build and the way he plays. I think Luke is really a vital glue guy on this team, and Kwame's post defense is vital. Ak brings blocks and some perimeter defense, but not at that cost. |
out of all the trades u guys have come up with. this is the only one i actually thought about. i dont know folks. AK47, Kobe, Smush. thats a lot of defense. thats also blocked shots(something kwame doesn't give us, even though he gives us great big man defense on superstar bigs). no more iso on luke thinking its easy. no more free layups because Ak47's shot blocking. i dont know folks. i love luke. but man. thats a tough one. but i guess we need to leave the team as is like i stated before. these guys are good enough as is. let them get healthy and skies the limit. especially if they get mihm back. |
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Steez
Starting Rotation
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 233
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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C - Andrew Bynum
PF - Lamar Odom
SF - Andrei Kirilenko
SG - Kobe Bryant
PG - Smush parker
I think i'd do it, but remember... Luke is a big reason why we have the record we do... |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | So, Bynum plays 48 Minutes per game?
Or, I guess the guy with the new heart valve and bad hips can play some backup 5 all season long?
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Hey, the two of them have been holding the fort most of the season as it is. Don't think it won't work, it is working.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| THE_SHOES wrote: |
Well...
Representing one of the masses that still don't get it. I do wonder one thing.
If all that being said be true, why doesn't Utah appreciate all that?
Tell you the truth, I would love to see Ak47 on the roster. The problem is when he goes down, and you know he will. Then what? you got rid of Walton, and Brown... It kind of seems like a lot of responsibility to put on such a fragile individual... |
Hey, we put that responsibility on Kwame and Odom, and they are just as fragile.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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JerryMagicKobe
Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 15100
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | So, Bynum plays 48 Minutes per game?
Or, I guess the guy with the new heart valve and bad hips can play some backup 5 all season long?
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Hey, the two of them have been holding the fort most of the season as it is. Don't think it won't work, it is working. |
Hey, I'm big on Bynum, and he is clearly the starter for the next 15 years or so, and who doesn't like Turiaf.
But why is AK playing like crap right after he signs the big contract? He is at or near career lows in FG%, 3pt%, Rebounds (esp offensive), steals, blocks, points, with an increase in fouls. He is being outperformed by Boozer and Okur, and has a huge contract. So why overpay for him? Luke and Kwame is too much. Package Luke, Mihm, McKie, Williams, but I'd rather keep Kwame. He is undervalued too, and is the only one on the roster who can check Duncan in May or Shaq in June.  |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Osama YoMama wrote: | | 24 wrote: | Uncool. I don't like the trade idea but:
A. It has arguable quality |
Unless you're a complete moron, it doesn't. Trade a productive, all-around type starter on a team that is 25-13 for a skinny douchebag who cares more about how his hair looks than making things happen on the court? Give me a (bleeping) break. It's idiotic statements like this that make me count my blessings that fans will never be GM's.
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Don't watch much basketball, do you.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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TheProdigy
Star Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Posts: 1847
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Honestly, with AK's price-tag and his contract, I would rather have Artest(emplay has mentioned that management probably wouldn't trade Luke for Artest, which I find most incredulous.) |
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THE_SHOES
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 29556
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | THE_SHOES wrote: |
Well...
Representing one of the masses that still don't get it. I do wonder one thing.
If all that being said be true, why doesn't Utah appreciate all that?
Tell you the truth, I would love to see Ak47 on the roster. The problem is when he goes down, and you know he will. Then what? you got rid of Walton, and Brown... It kind of seems like a lot of responsibility to put on such a fragile individual... |
Hey, we put that responsibility on Kwame and Odom, and they are just as fragile. |
Ventura! Don't make me have to come back in here!!! 
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"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.."
Last edited by THE_SHOES on Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryMagicKobe wrote: |
Hey, I'm big on Bynum, and he is clearly the starter for the next 15 years or so, and who doesn't like Turiaf.
But why is AK playing like crap right after he signs the big contract? He is at or near career lows in FG%, 3pt%, Rebounds (esp offensive), steals, blocks, points, with an increase in fouls. He is being outperformed by Boozer and Okur, and has a huge contract. So why overpay for him? Luke and Kwame is too much. Package Luke, Mihm, McKie, Williams, but I'd rather keep Kwame. He is undervalued too, and is the only one on the roster who can check Duncan in May or Shaq in June. |
It would only be Luke, Kwame's clock is ticking and he will be gone anyway*.
* Disclaimer: Unless Kwame decides to re-sign for less money than he is making now.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| THE_SHOES wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | THE_SHOES wrote: |
Well...
Representing one of the masses that still don't get it. I do wonder one thing.
If all that being said be true, why doesn't Utah appreciate all that?
Tell you the truth, I would love to see Ak47 on the roster. The problem is when he goes down, and you know he will. Then what? you got rid of Walton, and Brown... It kind of seems like a lot of responsibility to put on such a fragile individual... |
Hey, we put that responsibility on Kwame and Odom, and they are just as fragile. |
Ventura! Don't make me have to come back in here!!! |
No problem, there is nothing in my statement that you can factually argue anyway.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Mark_in_Tulsa
Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 12977
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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AK -47 is addicted to VIDEO GAMES, that is why he is sucking
http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=613286
Read the whole thing, it's pretty funny and true from what they say.
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angrypuppy
Retired Number
Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 32754
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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"Hey... I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons and not learn a little something about courage." |
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Mark_in_Tulsa
Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 12977
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: |
"Hey... I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons and not learn a little something about courage." |
(dies laughing)
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Think about how stupid the avg. person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
---George Carlin |
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PopcornMachine
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2001
Posts: 10566
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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jbjb
Star Player
Joined: 11 Apr 2001
Posts: 5401
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Could be worse. He could be spending all his time in online sports forums |
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Osama YoMama
Star Player
Joined: 08 May 2002
Posts: 3429
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Osama YoMama wrote: | | 24 wrote: | Uncool. I don't like the trade idea but:
A. It has arguable quality |
Unless you're a complete moron, it doesn't. Trade a productive, all-around type starter on a team that is 25-13 for a skinny douchebag who cares more about how his hair looks than making things happen on the court? Give me a (bleeping) break. It's idiotic statements like this that make me count my blessings that fans will never be GM's.
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Don't watch much basketball, do you. |
Never played any competitive basketball, have you. |
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Dr. Laker
Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17109
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | But why is AK playing like crap right after he signs the big contract? |
He signed the extension 2 seasons ago (same as Kobe) on 10/29/2004. Since that time, he's made All-Defensive Team twice, finished in the top 3 for DPOY twice and put up averages of 15.4 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 4.0 ast, 1.5 stl and 3.2 blk in 35.9 minutes.
Yes, he missed 54 games the past two seasons, but only missed 6 games combined in his first 3 seasons.
Anyway, JazzFanz think they can get Ray Allen+something from Seattle, Vince Carter+something or Paul Pierce straight up for AK47, so we probably don't have the pieces to get him.
Either that, or their fans are just as myopic as ours. :roll:
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On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
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Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90307
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Osama YoMama wrote: | | 24 wrote: | Uncool. I don't like the trade idea but:
A. It has arguable quality |
Unless you're a complete moron, it doesn't. Trade a productive, all-around type starter on a team that is 25-13 for a skinny douchebag who cares more about how his hair looks than making things happen on the court? Give me a (bleeping) break. It's idiotic statements like this that make me count my blessings that fans will never be GM's.
| 24 wrote: | | B. Dr. Laker is a long-time, respectable poster who doesn't deserve name-calling. |
I didn't know Dr. Laker's mother was a poster here as well!
| 24 wrote: | | C. "your idea is crap" is what you meant to say, not "I'm incapable of making my point without being personally insulting in an obviously unjoking manner". |
Thanks for pointing out the obvious, Sherlock. I wasn't joking, and I for one am sick and tired of these lame-ass threads from people who know absolutely nothing about on-court chemistry and how important that is in the long run. How many of you have actually played competitive ball at the college level? Oh, YMCA pee-wee leagues don't count. Bottom line: This current Laker team has great chemistry right now, and it would be downright stupid to trade a productive starter midway through a sucessful season. |
Funny, I agree with your opinion about the trade, was just pointing out that there is an argument to be made. Many people value AK a lot (I would if he wasn't so brittle).
I was serious about the name-calling. People who immediately jump to the "you're and idiot" response are pretty insecure in their argument, unable to articulate their argument, or have issues with being an angry punk. Maybe one or all of these afflictions are yours, i don't know.
And last, I am Dr. Laker's Grandmother, thank you very much!
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Dr. Laker
Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17109
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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OH NO - the secret is out, Grand Mama!
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On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
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A Mad Chinaman
Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6148
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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Is there something wrong with the Lakers' growth/potential/expectations at this time that they should consider trading for AK47? No
What would happen if the Luke/AK47 trade happens - you would take an invaluable passer/facillator/knowledgable "Tri" guy trusted by Phil/Kobe while being more dependent on Smush bringing up the ball and passing. Danger Danger Danger!
Lakers won't make a trade this season, anyway - especially for a player that hasn't shown the ability to quickly grasp the Tri. fyi: I know that he is working within Jerry Sloan's system, but it still takes time to learn the offensive/defensive schemes and why tamper with approximately more than half a season to go?
You would lose a person that can successfully play various roles for a talented player that would have to learn a new system under the glare of the "Big City" - as oppose to the relative obscurity of Utah |
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