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angrypuppy
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 Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:38 am Post subject: |
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Funny how many didn't realize what a disappointing season AK47 was having until now. He's injured so often, it is easy to forget that he's still on the Jazz roster.
He'll be difficult to move at this point. That contract is huge and long-running. |
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davidse
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Joined: 03 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| melakerfan wrote: | | magic_bryant wrote: | | melakerfan wrote: | Lets call it what it is....Becuase Luke is all-american boy, he is not going to be thrust away from the team. He is the poster child of the team.
Simply put, we all know that he is expendable based on his contribution to the team. I like Luke and I dont want to see him go, but I have seem plenty of guys go from the team that should of left after Luke Walton...
I personally think people like keeping Luke around to keep things looking right..
It is what it is... |
Are you seriously going there?
:roll: |
yup, we all know why Luke is still around, there are many players int hbis league that can do what Luke does or even better, if Webber had of come to the team, Luke would be gone next season. |
what i dont know is why YOU're still around. |
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:29 am Post subject: |
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AK47 on offense
His numbers are down this year, but he is typically a 15-16 ppg guy with starters minutes. He's not a shooter, but he slashes well, posts up and runs the floor. More importantly - HE GETS TO THE FREE THROW LINE!
Add to that his ALL-LEAGUE DEFENSE and this is a no-brainer.
I like Luke's game, but let's be real - AK47 is 10 times the player he is. Kwame's post D is solid, but a guy like Kirilenko is 5 times as valuable because he can man-up any PF and still recover to guard the weakside.
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Rick12322
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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 19164
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:49 am Post subject: Re: A Win-Win Proposal! Luke to Utah! |
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| No, the Triangle cannot function against teams like Miami, without good 3 pt shooters, and passers. The threat of the 3 pt. shot is what has made the Triangle look so good lately. |
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lionballer7
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 1684
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:53 am Post subject: |
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All you guys that would not make this trade are the same posters that will complain when this team gets knocked out of the second round of the playoffs and will say we need a shot blocker (AK-47), we need to play better all around defense(AK-47), we need to upgrade the talent level in the off season(AK-47).
The Jazz wouldn't do this deal, but if they wouldconsider it, the Lakers would be absolutely CRAZY not jumping at it.
Also don't forget that the Lakers may shop Kwame this summer anyways. He will be a young big with an expiring K, pretty enticing for any ball club. We won't resign him at the current K that he has.
I like ubersev's idea Quote:
Luke/Kwame for AK47 and then Vlad for Nazr. That would make us a much better defensive team.
or maybe try a back up like Magloire or steven hunter or even have the Jazz include Paul Millsapp. |
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Freakout
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 11796
Location: WV
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:58 am Post subject: |
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Injury and his contract are two huge turnoffs.
AK47 does bring things that really improve us though. He's one hell of a weakside defender. |
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THE_SHOES
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Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:02 am Post subject: |
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lionballer7, if Andrei is going to spend most of the time in the hospital anyway, how is it that you think he will even see the playoffs to beggin with? You have to know that the Lakers will need Kwame something bad in the playoffs to stop any potential blue chip pf from thinking that he is about to party...
Andrew is at least a season away from allowing the Lakers to start shopping kwame btw too...
There is no way in tttttttthhheeeeee hell the Lakers get rid of core players that have been groomed in this offense right now. It would damn near take Lebron James... AK gets paid bucks that he can't even stay on the floor long enough to earn. He is a "girly man" that makes even Kwame seem like "the man of steel."
Lakers won't do it...
Don't let this foolishness run 10, or 15 pages people. Onlookers will think that we're desperate. This ain't KG were talking about (bleep)!
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Last edited by THE_SHOES on Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:26 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Ozendorph
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Location: Mission Viejo
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:06 am Post subject: |
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Pre-Suns-Series Luke and Kwame? Done.
Today's new and improved Luke and Kwame? I don't think so.
Luke is scoring and passing extremely well right now...we're definitely getting our money's worth from him this season. Kwame's just too important from a matchup standpoint (on both sides of the court) to give up without getting another big back. Otherwise we don't have another true center behind Andrew.
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LakerFan1972
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | AK47 on offense
His numbers are down this year, but he is typically a 15-16 ppg guy with starters minutes. He's not a shooter, but he slashes well, posts up and runs the floor. More importantly - HE GETS TO THE FREE THROW LINE!
Add to that his ALL-LEAGUE DEFENSE and this is a no-brainer.
I like Luke's game, but let's be real - AK47 is 10 times the player he is. Kwame's post D is solid, but a guy like Kirilenko is 5 times as valuable because he can man-up any PF and still recover to guard the weakside. |
I agree that AK47 would be a great addition. It is a matter of cost (i.e. in trade) and timing (mid-season vs. offseason).
Yes, I agree that
AK47 >>>>>>>> Walton
Yes, I agree that
AK47 >>>>>>>> Kwame
But the Lakers right now have the 4th best record in the league, and this without 2 starters. Do you mess with that kind of chemistry now?
I think you may underestimate Luke's importance this year. Particularily with Odom gone. He is one of those glue guys that pulls people together. Also, Kobe and Luke are really developing some real team work there. Luke has been done a great job feeding Kobe in the tri.
I also question how well AK47 would do one on one against Duncan, Amare, or Dirk. This where Kwame's value becomes obvious.
There is no doubt that AK47 is one of the best weakside help defenders in the league .... when healthy. When AK47 is on his game, the guy is a blocking machine from the weakside.
In any case, this is all probably moot. I still don't see Utah making such a move during the season. And even if the Jazz did consider trading AK47, there are other teams who would be able to put better packages. I would also expect the Jazz would prefer moving him to the east coast.
This is fun to consider and I can understand your point of view. Just not a move I would do .... it would be curious to find out what other teams offer first.
Let the other teams set the opening bid. Is it going to be a sellers or buyers market?
Finally, I just love the way these Lakers are playing together. It is fun to watch. It has not been since the Showtime Lakers have I actually enjoyed watching the Lakers play ... from a teamwork standpoint. |
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golakersgo121
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Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 11717
Location: 8 miles from Staples Center
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| Runway8 wrote: |
I don't think it's a clear no. Look at what we're doing now without Lamar and Kwame. AK47 + Andrew Bynum can cause a lot of havoc. You then make Turiaf a MADE guy and ingrain him into the rotation. Bynum, Turiaf, Lamar and Ak47 is enough for upfront rotation. |
If this one is not a clear enough "no", then I don't know what is.
AK47 gets compensated like a player who contributes heavily both defensively and offensively ($15MM/year annually for next five seasons)... |
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lionballer7
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| THE_SHOES wrote: | lionballer7, if Andrei is going to spend most of the time in the hospital anyway, how is it that you think he will even see the playoffs to beggin with? You have to know that the Lakers will need Kwame something bad in the playoffs to stop any potential blue chip pf from thinking that he is about to party...
Andrew is at least a season away from allowing the Lakers to start shopping kwame btw too...
There is no way in tttttttthhheeeeee hell the Lakers get rid of core players that have been groomed in this offense. AK gets paid bucks that he can't even stay on the floor long enough to earn. He is a "girly man" that makes even Kwame seem like "the man of steel."
Lakers won't do it...
Don't let this foolishness run 10, or 15 pages people. Onlookers will think that we're desperate. This ain't KG were talking about (bleep)! |
Shoes, if you are talking about the AK of this season, then of course you think twice before you make such a bold move. But let's just think about what the Lakers need right now. They need a shot blocker, especially a weakside shotblocker. AK-47 fits that need. They need perimeter defense when LO goes comes back to play the 4. AK would do that. Luke is really stepping up right now OFFENSIVELY, but defensively, I'm tired of seeing him watch the weakside help out the perimeter defense, and then allowing other players beat him to rebounds. He is a weak defender and his ROLE will DIMINSH when LO comes back. LO handles the ball, distributes, and turns Luke into a 3 point shooter, and he isn;t hitting them consistently like he was in the beginning of the season. AK-47 does A LOT of things WITHOUT the ball in his hands on BOTH SIDES of the ball. Our bigs are doing an OK job without Kwame, but I would try to make a move for magloire/hunter or maybe Mohammed for insurance behind Bynum.
Kirilenko would also extend Kobe's stamina and career with his defense. |
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angrypuppy
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | AK47 on offense
His numbers are down this year, but he is typically a 15-16 ppg guy with starters minutes. He's not a shooter, but he slashes well, posts up and runs the floor. More importantly - HE GETS TO THE FREE THROW LINE!
Add to that his ALL-LEAGUE DEFENSE and this is a no-brainer.
I like Luke's game, but let's be real - AK47 is 10 times the player he is. Kwame's post D is solid, but a guy like Kirilenko is 5 times as valuable because he can man-up any PF and still recover to guard the weakside. |
He can defend a PF in a pinch, but that's not where you want to start him. He started having physical problems when he switched from SF to PF.
I like AK47, but including Kwame in the deal does three bad things: 1. We lose someone who can defend elite bigs in the playoffs; 2. Potentially exposes Bynum to injury or other development issues. Bynum is only 19, and I am not convinced that his body is ready for the abuse required of an NBA starting Center; and 3. AK47's contract runs until 2011 and is pricey. You are gambling that his physical problems are behind him, and that his poor play is only mental. |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| Oh, and I forgot to add... Utah would probably not be interested. They're probably looking for a SG. |
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lionballer7
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 1684
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| LakerFan1972 wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | AK47 on offense
His numbers are down this year, but he is typically a 15-16 ppg guy with starters minutes. He's not a shooter, but he slashes well, posts up and runs the floor. More importantly - HE GETS TO THE FREE THROW LINE!
Add to that his ALL-LEAGUE DEFENSE and this is a no-brainer.
I like Luke's game, but let's be real - AK47 is 10 times the player he is. Kwame's post D is solid, but a guy like Kirilenko is 5 times as valuable because he can man-up any PF and still recover to guard the weakside. |
I agree that AK47 would be a great addition. It is a matter of cost (i.e. in trade) and timing (mid-season vs. offseason).
Yes, I agree that
AK47 >>>>>>>> Walton
Yes, I agree that
AK47 >>>>>>>> Kwame
But the Lakers right now have the 4th best record in the league, and this without 2 starters. Do you mess with that kind of chemistry now?
I think you may underestimate Luke's importance this year. Particularily with Odom gone. He is one of those glue guys that pulls people together. Also, Kobe and Luke are really developing some real team work there. Luke has been done a great job feeding Kobe in the tri.
I also question how well AK47 would do one on one against Duncan, Amare, or Dirk. This where Kwame's value becomes obvious.
There is no doubt that AK47 is one of the best weakside help defenders in the league .... when healthy. When AK47 is on his game, the guy is a blocking machine from the weakside.
In any case, this is all probably moot. I still don't see Utah making such a move during the season. And even if the Jazz did consider trading AK47, there are other teams who would be able to put better packages. I would also expect the Jazz would prefer moving him to the east coast.
This is fun to consider and I can understand your point of view. Just not a move I would do .... it would be curious to find out what other teams offer first.
Let the other teams set the opening bid. Is it going to be a sellers or buyers market?
Finally, I just love the way these Lakers are playing together. It is fun to watch. It has not been since the Showtime Lakers have I actually enjoyed watching the Lakers play ... from a teamwork standpoint. |
Good Post. I agree on many points that you make, except that when an All-Star, who can take your team to a championship level, is offered for to role players that are replaceable, then I think you make the move.
I pose another question. Let's say Garnett is available this summer, don't you think that having talent like Kirilenko on your roster would help you land another All star as opposed to Walton and Kwame? |
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Dr. Laker
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | He can defend a PF in a pinch, but that's not where you want to start him. He started having physical problems when he switched from SF to PF. |
Dude - he was a PF damned near his whole career. This is the 1st year he's been primarily a SF.
AK47 made the 2004 ASG as a PF IN THE WEST! - the guy has locked down the Dirk's, KG's and Duncans of the league - he's a spectacular man defender - probably the best in the league, post or wing.
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lionballer7
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:41 am Post subject: |
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^ many people have forgotten this about AK-47  |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | He can defend a PF in a pinch, but that's not where you want to start him. He started having physical problems when he switched from SF to PF. |
Dude - he was a PF damned near his whole career. This is the 1st year he's been primarily a SF.
AK47 made the 2004 ASG as a PF IN THE WEST! - the guy has locked down the Dirk's, KG's and Duncans of the league - he's a spectacular man defender - probably the best in the league, post or wing. |
He started his career as a SF, remember? Some guy named Malone played PF. |
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Dr. Laker
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | Oh, and I forgot to add... Utah would probably not be interested. They're probably looking for a SG. |
This is partially true. They are looking for a deep shooter - if they get a 3, Harpring will play the 2. If they get a 2, Harpring will play the 3.
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gill2k
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Location: Somewhere in Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | He can defend a PF in a pinch, but that's not where you want to start him. He started having physical problems when he switched from SF to PF. |
Dude - he was a PF damned near his whole career. This is the 1st year he's been primarily a SF.
AK47 made the 2004 ASG as a PF IN THE WEST! - the guy has locked down the Dirk's, KG's and Duncans of the league - he's a spectacular man defender - probably the best in the league, post or wing. |
And yet Kobe and Arenas drops 50+ on him. 
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Dr. Laker
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | He started his career as a SF, remember? Some guy named Malone played PF. |
He didn't become a starter - and an All Star - until Malone became a Laker. Before then, he was the BACKUP PF:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kirilan01.html
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:49 am Post subject: |
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No, he was primarily a SF. Your link doesn't break down his minutes by position, so stop acting like it is authoritative.
He began his career as a SF. He was moved to PF once Malone left. He did not backup Malone at PF. |
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Dr. Laker
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| gill2k wrote: | | And yet Kobe and Arenas drops 50+ on him. |
Nature of the game - better O beats great D. Arenas dropped 60 on Kobe, Kobe dropped 53 on Battier ...
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Dr. Laker
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | No, he was primarily a SF. Your link doesn't break down his minutes by position, so stop acting like it is authoritative.
He began his career as a SF. He was moved to PF once Malone left. He did not backup Malone at PF. |
I'm not getting into an ePissing contest - the guy made the ALL STAR GAME as a Power Forward.
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| Let me add... other than small line-ups. Towards the end of the Stockton-Malone era, AK47 was primarily a SF, with limited minutes at PF. When Malone was on the bench resting, Marshall was switched to PF defensively, and AK47 played SF. Now do you remember? |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| If Kirilenko wasn't so injury prone then I'd say yes, but he is so I'd decline. |
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