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KOBEhastheMAGIC
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:22 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
KOBEhastheMAGIC wrote:
parsons777 wrote:
10/15/4/4 on 4-4 FG from the unathletic slob 7 footer.

KobeBryant42pointsathalf=troll.

Also, you need to change your sig. We have already lost 15.


He should have had a lot more points. He is 4 inches taller/longer and 50 pounds heavier than anyone on the Warriors. How he had no dunks in this game is a testament to his unathleticism. He catches the ball 3 feet in front of the rim and still can't dunk it.


It's all 2 points.


Wrong. Dunks=Momentum and they are a lot mor guarunteed to go in than layups. Just ask Kwame. If they was a real big man in tonight, Bynum' soft shots would get swatted. If he can't dunk over less than 7 footer and players who weigh a lot less than him then how is he going to dunk over real big men?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:22 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
I'm still confused why Bynum was pulled after his 4th block. Too much interior defense? I guess it was because of the zone.


Davis wasn't the only one who had cramps...someone had it in the brain, probably why Bynum was pulled out.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:24 pm    Post subject:

parsons777=troll

Everyone will have their opinion. They can agree or disagree with KB42. Not everything KB42P -at- H says will be wrong. Geez. :roll:
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parsons777
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:24 pm    Post subject:

Kobe 4 Prez wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
I'm still confused why Bynum was pulled after his 4th block. Too much interior defense? I guess it was because of the zone.

Had we played inside-out and gone through him more, the Lakers would have blown out the Warriors tonight. They had no answer. In the 1st they were doubling him and would have done so throughout the game. Since he can pass we'd get far more open looks - especially to guys cutting.

We won this game but honestly GS choked it. We didn't deserve to win this game because of how poor the Laker strategy was.

Do this against the Suns and we'll be swept.

Props to Kobe, Bynum, Mo and (late) Luke. Each played a big part in this win.


Yea seriously man.

You know how highly I think of Bynum even at age 19, but all the personal bias aside, why do the Lakers go away from him on nights like this? They didn't have any answer for him, this game would have been over long before it started, and without the ugliness.


I'm not normally a conspiracy theorist, but they have done this several times. Bynum scored several times against Dallas in the 1st Qtr and never got another postup. Are they trying to keep him from showing so much that they cannot possibly put Kwame back in as a starter?

Do they not want another Shaq ego in a big body? You just cannot ignore he scores 10 pts on 4!!! FGA.
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parsons777
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:26 pm    Post subject:

lakerskobe247 wrote:
parsons777=troll

Everyone will have their opinion. They can agree or disagree with KB42. Not everything KB42P AT H says will be wrong. Geez. :roll:


Well, I could be a jerk or wrong about everything but I cannot be a "troll" because I want the Lakers to win and I do not make irrational criticisms about our players. Those who do ARE trolls and are trolling to annoy us fans and I will call them on it from now on.
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:26 pm    Post subject:

KOBEhastheMAGIC wrote:

Wrong. Dunks=Momentum and they are a lot mor guarunteed to go in than layups. Just ask Kwame. If they was a real big man in tonight, Bynum' soft shots would get swatted. If he can't dunk over less than 7 footer and players who weigh a lot less than him then how is he going to dunk over real big men?


So Bynum should dunk it because Kwame can't hit a 2-footer? Interesting logic. Fortunately for the Lakers, Bynum can shoot the ball, he isn't Kwame. Why the infatuation with dunking? Like I said, it is all 2 points.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:32 pm    Post subject:

parsons777 wrote:
Kobe 4 Prez wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
I'm still confused why Bynum was pulled after his 4th block. Too much interior defense? I guess it was because of the zone.

Had we played inside-out and gone through him more, the Lakers would have blown out the Warriors tonight. They had no answer. In the 1st they were doubling him and would have done so throughout the game. Since he can pass we'd get far more open looks - especially to guys cutting.

We won this game but honestly GS choked it. We didn't deserve to win this game because of how poor the Laker strategy was.

Do this against the Suns and we'll be swept.

Props to Kobe, Bynum, Mo and (late) Luke. Each played a big part in this win.


Yea seriously man.

You know how highly I think of Bynum even at age 19, but all the personal bias aside, why do the Lakers go away from him on nights like this? They didn't have any answer for him, this game would have been over long before it started, and without the ugliness.


I'm not normally a conspiracy theorist, but they have done this several times. Bynum scored several times against Dallas in the 1st Qtr and never got another postup. Are they trying to keep him from showing so much that they cannot possibly put Kwame back in as a starter?

Do they not want another Shaq ego in a big body? You just cannot ignore he scores 10 pts on 4!!! FGA.


No idea man, I'm trying to figure it out myself. He's a good passer as well and can pass out of the double team. I don't know what the issue is when he has the advantage and has it going like he did tonight.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:34 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
I'm now 100% convinced Phil is purposely making this team play without an objective to get the ball inside to Drew as tonight there was no excuse for to ignore him like they ussually do. I'm convinced Phil is protecting his boy Kwame as tonight Drew should have had a 25-15 night. There is just noway a guy as smart as Phil couldn't see the huuuge mismatch Drew had almost every possession. Very sad game for me to watch as I'm losing faith in Phil as a coach for the young guys. Him playing Cook at C almost made we want to make a HBA thread.


That does sound a lot like HBA, Wolf.

Phil trying to protect his boy Kwame?
That's a pretty ridiculous statement on several levels:

(1) Kwame isn't Phil's "boy."
(2) What's best for Bynum is what's best for the team.
(3) Phil wasn't throwing the entry passes.
(4) In the triangle offense, the first option is to THROW THE BALL IN THE POST. If the guys don't do that, it's their fault. They're not reading the defense properly. It's one thing to say that Phil's trying to teach the team a lesson and review it on film, but it's entirely different to say that he's trying to sabotage Bynum on behalf of his "boy," Kwame.
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:36 pm    Post subject:

wildcat wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
I'm now 100% convinced Phil is purposely making this team play without an objective to get the ball inside to Drew as tonight there was no excuse for to ignore him like they ussually do. I'm convinced Phil is protecting his boy Kwame as tonight Drew should have had a 25-15 night. There is just noway a guy as smart as Phil couldn't see the huuuge mismatch Drew had almost every possession. Very sad game for me to watch as I'm losing faith in Phil as a coach for the young guys. Him playing Cook at C almost made we want to make a HBA thread.


That does sound a lot like HBA, Wolf.

Phil trying to protect his boy Kwame?
That's a pretty ridiculous statement on several levels:

(1) Kwame isn't Phil's "boy."
(2) What's best for Bynum is what's best for the team.
(3) Phil wasn't throwing the entry passes.
(4) In the triangle offense, the first option is to THROW THE BALL IN THE POST. If the guys don't do that, it's their fault. They're not reading the defense properly. It's one thing to say that Phil's trying to teach the team a lesson and review it on film, but it's entirely different to say that he's trying to sabotage Bynum on behalf of his "boy," Kwame.


From things I have heard, there are some power struggles going on in the FO, and Bynum is a pawn in those struggles. I don't think Wolf is that far off on this one.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:39 pm    Post subject:

Bynum has played against Zo, Howard, Duncan in this recent stretch and averaged 11, 9 and 2. If that's your definition of real big men, I'd say he came out just fine.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:43 pm    Post subject:

Quote:

I'm not normally a conspiracy theorist, but they have done this several times. Bynum scored several times against Dallas in the 1st Qtr and never got another postup. Are they trying to keep him from showing so much that they cannot possibly put Kwame back in as a starter?

Do they not want another Shaq ego in a big body? You just cannot ignore he scores 10 pts on 4!!! FGA.

Yep this is NOT the first time but I have ignored it until now because in other matchups a case can be made that eventually Drew would struggle because of the defense he's facing.

But tonight? Jesus Christ. It was so obvious. Drew was the best option outside of Kobe. Yet he took the least shots and had the least touches from all starters.

That should be unacceptable and had GS been a good team we lose this game.

We got lucky and Kobe was on fire (along with Luke making some clutch scores).
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:43 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
I'm still confused why Bynum was pulled after his 4th block. Too much interior defense? I guess it was because of the zone.


Even though he got the block, he was beat. Phil's reasoning is that he wouldn't have to get the block, if he kept the guard in front of him. Sound logic IMO.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:45 pm    Post subject:

I don't think so, Bynum's job is to guard his man, and cover for anyone else. Baron beat our perimeter defenders, not Bynum. Bynum did his job and covered for them.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:45 pm    Post subject:

^ What things? From where? If you're referring to the fact that Phil wanted to draft Granger instead of Bynum, that's a little silly. It's been a few years and he has had the chance to map out their careers. It's clear in hindsight that Bynum was a better choice. Plenty of people panned the Bynum pick. That doesn't mean they can't be fans now.

Guys: Bynum is 19 years old! If Phil doesn't emphasize him the way he emphasizes Shaq, it doesn't mean that he's trying to derail his career. Give me a break. :roll:
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The New Jack Bauer
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:45 pm    Post subject:

sooooo THIS is what Kobe's game would be like if he got the hand check calls that everyone else gets! The refs actually called the body fouls when Kobe was on the perimeter and he got 40 easily. If only he could get these calls consistently....
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:46 pm    Post subject:

Wildcat - Phil wanted Bynum traded for Artest last season at this point. He also was very vocal about getting Kwame here. If Kwame becomes a 15 mpg backup, Phil looks like a fool and Jimmy Buss a genious.

Remember apart from the Buss' they all wanted Channing "athletic version of Brian Cook" Frye.

It's not so much for Kwame as much as it is for Phil's own stake in future dealings. He doesn't want to come off as a fool as his opinion on trades/aquisitions would lose merit in the future. It happens all the time in pro sports. It's happening on the hockey team in my city right now. Happens in football too.

Coaches and uppermanagement don't always see eye to eye with each other.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:46 pm    Post subject:

wildcat wrote:
^ What things? From where? If you're referring to the fact that Phil wanted to draft Granger instead of Bynum, that's a little silly. It's been a few years and he has had the chance to map out their careers. It's clear in hindsight that Bynum was a better choice. Plenty of people panned the Bynum pick. That doesn't mean they can't be fans now.

Guys: Bynum is 19 years old! If Phil doesn't emphasize him the way he emphasizes Shaq, it doesn't mean that he's trying to derail his career. Give me a break. :roll:


It's not about derailing Bynum's career, it is about Phil winnng with Kwame.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:49 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Yep this is NOT the first time but I have ignored it until now because in other matchups a case can be made that eventually Drew would struggle because of the defense he's facing.

But tonight? Jesus Christ. It was so obvious. Drew was the best option outside of Kobe. Yet he took the least shots and had the least touches from all starters.

That should be unacceptable and had GS been a good team we lose this game.


What exactly are you suggesting? That Phil took the starters aside and told them not to pass to Bynum? Because he has mentioned on many occasions that the starters aren't doing a good job of getting Bynum the ball, and how he isn't happy about it. The ball HAS to get into the post if the triangle is to be effective.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:49 pm    Post subject:

DP

Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:52 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
What exactly are you suggesting? That Phil took the starters aside and told them not to pass to Bynum? Because he has mentioned on many occasions that the starters aren't doing a good job of getting Bynum the ball, and how he isn't happy about it. The ball HAS to get into the post if the triangle is to be effective.

No.

He has a number of plays they can run in the Triangle. It is very clear when he wants the ball inside to a Lamar, Mo Evans, Luke Walton or Kobe. At times it's also clear when they are trying to get Drew or Kwame the ball.

The problem is that despite a 4-4 start Drew got no plays run for him. As a coach all Phil has to do is tell them "get the ball inside". It's not that hard of an adjustment. Instead we saw Drew set screesn and be used as a decoy.

And tell me. Have you ever seen Kwame have a start like that and then be basically a spectator on offense the rest of the game?

Actually don't answer that. Kwame never has a start like that to begin with so it's moot.

If had this game in our hands - I'd be fine. I'd say yeah that was great strategy it worked. However that clearly wasn't the case.
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parsons777
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:16 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Quote:
What exactly are you suggesting? That Phil took the starters aside and told them not to pass to Bynum? Because he has mentioned on many occasions that the starters aren't doing a good job of getting Bynum the ball, and how he isn't happy about it. The ball HAS to get into the post if the triangle is to be effective.

No.

He has a number of plays they can run in the Triangle. It is very clear when he wants the ball inside to a Lamar, Mo Evans, Luke Walton or Kobe. At times it's also clear when they are trying to get Drew or Kwame the ball.

The problem is that despite a 4-4 start Drew got no plays run for him. As a coach all Phil has to do is tell them "get the ball inside". It's not that hard of an adjustment. Instead we saw Drew set screesn and be used as a decoy.

And tell me. Have you ever seen Kwame have a start like that and then be basically a spectator on offense the rest of the game?

Actually don't answer that. Kwame never has a start like that to begin with so it's moot.

If had this game in our hands - I'd be fine. I'd say yeah that was great strategy it worked. However that clearly wasn't the case.


100% agree.
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wildcat
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:16 pm    Post subject:

Wolf: I appreciate that you're responding to my posts and articulating your ideas about Kwame/Bynum. Too many posters don't actually take the time to do that.

Let me lay out what I'm trying to say:

Phil wanted Kwame. Phil didn't want to draft Bynum. That is true.
But Mitch also wanted Kwame. So did Dr. Buss. Mitch didn't want to draft Bynum (he wanted Sean May). But once the organization decided that Bynum was the pick, there was no turning back. He had to be developed if the team was to win.

Phil's a very intelligent man. He sees Andrew Bynum, a 19-year-old kid who's still growing. He looks at Kwame Brown and sees what could have been had he been given time to develop. So he didn't play Bynum last year, and what did everybody on LG say? He doesn't like Bynum. But this year Bynum is reaping the benefits of being given the chance to work with KAJ and not be thrust into a pressure situation. He's playing great.

This year Phil's playing mindgames with Bynum because he wants Bynum to be great. One day he said that he doesn't think that Bynum will start. The next day, he said that Bynum would start. He doesn't want Bynum to feel the sense of entitlement that Kwame so often displays (without warrant, IMO). He wants to challenge Bynum to become great and doesn't want him to become complacent about his game. Thus the comments about his work ethic, etc.

Phil himself said as much:
Quote:

"The biggest thing we could teach him … is a work ethic," he said. "That's what we really are striving for. He's got a long ways to go. Would Andrew have been an athlete if he wasn't a 7-[foot]-1 kid? Would he have been a competitor?

"To find that pleasure in winning and competing is really what's important. There have been a lot of players that have been able to come to this game and do things and get numbers and get salaries but haven't learned to compete and enjoy the competition level. That's what we want to instill in Andrew."


That sounds like someone who wants Bynum to be an all-time great. And trust me, if Bynum becomes a star, Phil will be looking very good - for nurturing, teaching, and demanding excellence.

If what you're saying is true,

Why did Jackson instruct his team in a film session to get the ball into Bynum?
Why did Phil take a $25,000 fine defending Bynum to the officials?
Why did Bynum himself say,
Quote:

And Phil is also a great teacher. He's been watching tape of me in the Summer League. We spoke and he told me some things that I should be doing on the block, as far as little things on offense.

Why did Charley Rosen, his alter ego, write:
Quote:

Predicton: If Phil Jackson re-ups after his 3-year deal is over, it'll be because he wants to be around when Bynum reaches his maturity and inevitably dominates the league.
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parsons777
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:25 pm    Post subject:

wildcat wrote:
Wolf: I appreciate that you're responding to my posts and articulating your ideas about Kwame/Bynum. Too many posters don't actually take the time to do that.

Let me lay out what I'm trying to say:

Phil wanted Kwame. Phil didn't want to draft Bynum. That is true.
But Mitch also wanted Kwame. So did Dr. Buss. Mitch didn't want to draft Bynum (he wanted Sean May). But once the organization decided that Bynum was the pick, there was no turning back. He had to be developed if the team was to win.

Phil's a very intelligent man. He sees Andrew Bynum, a 19-year-old kid who's still growing. He looks at Kwame Brown and sees what could have been had he been given time to develop. So he didn't play Bynum last year, and what did everybody on LG say? He doesn't like Bynum. But this year Bynum is reaping the benefits of being given the chance to work with KAJ and not be thrust into a pressure situation. He's playing great.

This year Phil's playing mindgames with Bynum because he wants Bynum to be great. One day he said that he doesn't think that Bynum will start. The next day, he said that Bynum would start. He doesn't want Bynum to feel the sense of entitlement that Kwame so often displays (without warrant, IMO). He wants to challenge Bynum to become great and doesn't want him to become complacent about his game. Thus the comments about his work ethic, etc.

Phil himself said as much:
Quote:

"The biggest thing we could teach him … is a work ethic," he said. "That's what we really are striving for. He's got a long ways to go. Would Andrew have been an athlete if he wasn't a 7-[foot]-1 kid? Would he have been a competitor?

"To find that pleasure in winning and competing is really what's important. There have been a lot of players that have been able to come to this game and do things and get numbers and get salaries but haven't learned to compete and enjoy the competition level. That's what we want to instill in Andrew."


That sounds like someone who wants Bynum to be an all-time great. And trust me, if Bynum becomes a star, Phil will be looking very good - for nurturing, teaching, and demanding excellence.

If what you're saying is true,

Why did Jackson instruct his team in a film session to get the ball into Bynum?
Why did Phil take a $25,000 fine defending Bynum to the officials?
Why did Bynum himself say,
Quote:

And Phil is also a great teacher. He's been watching tape of me in the Summer League. We spoke and he told me some things that I should be doing on the block, as far as little things on offense.

Why did Charley Rosen, his alter ego, write:
Quote:

Predicton: If Phil Jackson re-ups after his 3-year deal is over, it'll be because he wants to be around when Bynum reaches his maturity and inevitably dominates the league.


Could it be the other players don't want him to get to 20/10? There is such a thing as professional jealosy. He is younger than they are, bigger, huge upside.

I just cannot get how he goes 4-4 in the first and not a sniff the last 3 quarters.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:46 am    Post subject:

bump
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:51 am    Post subject:

parsons777 wrote:


I just cannot get how he goes 4-4 in the first and not a sniff the last 3 quarters.


It is easy to explain when you consider you have perimeter players who think the 3-point shot is a good shot, and believe that the Lakers are a perimeter team. A good example is the playoff series against the Suns last year. We were all excited because the Suns bigs were injured, and the Lakers should have had a big advantage inside. Unfortunately, the team didn't think like us, and we died with perimeter play. This team just doesn't have the mindset of utilizing its post players.
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