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dvdrdiscs Star Player
Joined: 28 Oct 2004 Posts: 6274
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:44 am Post subject: |
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Sit Kobe out, let Odom be the main option and force the issue. Let him jack up 30+ shots and score 20+ points. Hopefully a clueless GM will think Odom is having a great game and actually thinks he's worth more than he is. |
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laker4life Star Player
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 7317
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:58 am Post subject: |
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dvdrdiscs wrote: | Sit Kobe out, let Odom be the main option and force the issue. Let him jack up 30+ shots and score 20+ points. Hopefully a clueless GM will think Odom is having a great game and actually thinks he's worth more than he is. |
We did that in the beginning of the season when Kobe was coming back from his knee surgery.
But the problem is that management also got blinded by Odom's game and said we are not going to trade a 28 year old budding multi-position potential superstar for someone like a 30+ year old former all star (KG) who has already peaked. |
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Heyvoon24 Star Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 3933
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:05 am Post subject: |
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odom really needs.....luke walton. those guys complement each other like hot dogs and buns. recall the beginning of the year when both luke and odom were healthy we kicked ass. then lamar went down and luke played like crap. we were waiting for lamar to then come back and help out.
what happend when lamar came back? luke got injured. coincidently, even though lamar has fully healed from his injury, he's played like crap because he needs luke.
how did we make that run in the second half of last season? phil started luke and odom instead of odom and cook. coincidence?
i don't know how this works, but based on observation one can say that we (especially lamar) suck now because we dont have luke walton. |
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dvdrdiscs Star Player
Joined: 28 Oct 2004 Posts: 6274
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:29 am Post subject: |
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Heyvoon24 wrote: | odom really needs.....luke walton. those guys complement each other like hot dogs and buns. recall the beginning of the year when both luke and odom were healthy we kicked ass. then lamar went down and luke played like crap. we were waiting for lamar to then come back and help out.
what happend when lamar came back? luke got injured. coincidently, even though lamar has fully healed from his injury, he's played like crap because he needs luke.
how did we make that run in the second half of last season? phil started luke and odom instead of odom and cook. coincidence?
i don't know how this works, but based on observation one can say that we (especially lamar) suck now because we dont have luke walton. |
I don't know what to think about a 2nd option and a "potential superstar" with "major versatility/upside" needing a role player so he can play at his potential. |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58318
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:43 am Post subject: |
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KobeButler wrote: | wolfpaclaker wrote: | If I had the time, I'd go search how many threads and comments were posted in identical fashion last year about Jackson and his reasoning.
Last year Lakers went into the ASB at .500 (26-26). Their last game was a frustrating loss to the Hawks, if anyone cares to remember.
I was reading all the same stuff. Jackson's trying to show Buss that he can't win with this team.
What happenned? Was there even a small trade?
The Lakers are less desperate than they were last season at this point in time and look like they have better talent on the team that is up and coming considering 2 of their players are going to the rookie/sophmore game.
If they make a deal it will only be because they think it elevates them alot right now. The chances of any deal are slim anyway. |
I think the fact that the Lakers had a really good home stretch after ASB last season gave them more hope. Afterall the main goal of last season was just to make the playoffs.
I think our goal this year is different. I dont think were gonna just settle for making the playoffs again. I personally hope tihs losing streak convinces the front office we need more help. |
The goal this season is to improve.
Nowhere have I read Phil Jackson talk about a championship. It was stupid, jump the gun mentality that made so many believe "this was the year".
No team goes lottery to championship in a year and half. That isn't happening.
The goal as Kobe and Phil say is to improve as a team.
If they win more games than this season, advance an extra round in the playoffs .. progress is made. A goal is accomplished. Not the ultimate goal (ring) but still it is progress.
Just like I was being told early in the season we were contenders now I'm being told we suck.
Reality is that this team is somewhere in between - better than last season and still trying to climb from the bottom in '05. |
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sixfour Sixth Man
Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 82
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:27 am Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | KobeButler wrote: | wolfpaclaker wrote: | If I had the time, I'd go search how many threads and comments were posted in identical fashion last year about Jackson and his reasoning.
Last year Lakers went into the ASB at .500 (26-26). Their last game was a frustrating loss to the Hawks, if anyone cares to remember.
I was reading all the same stuff. Jackson's trying to show Buss that he can't win with this team.
What happenned? Was there even a small trade?
The Lakers are less desperate than they were last season at this point in time and look like they have better talent on the team that is up and coming considering 2 of their players are going to the rookie/sophmore game.
If they make a deal it will only be because they think it elevates them alot right now. The chances of any deal are slim anyway. |
I think the fact that the Lakers had a really good home stretch after ASB last season gave them more hope. Afterall the main goal of last season was just to make the playoffs.
I think our goal this year is different. I dont think were gonna just settle for making the playoffs again. I personally hope tihs losing streak convinces the front office we need more help. |
The goal this season is to improve.
Nowhere have I read Phil Jackson talk about a championship. It was stupid, jump the gun mentality that made so many believe "this was the year".
No team goes lottery to championship in a year and half. That isn't happening.
The goal as Kobe and Phil say is to improve as a team.
If they win more games than this season, advance an extra round in the playoffs .. progress is made. A goal is accomplished. Not the ultimate goal (ring) but still it is progress.
Just like I was being told early in the season we were contenders now I'm being told we suck.
Reality is that this team is somewhere in between - better than last season and still trying to climb from the bottom in '05. |
didn't the Spurs do that with Tim Duncan? |
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ProjectAB Star Player
Joined: 31 Jan 2007 Posts: 1729
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:58 am Post subject: |
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Like I've said before, often times a player can look a lot worse than he is, if a team's overall talent is just enough to lose, and vice versa. Odom exemplifies this more than most.
Now I don't want to trade Odom because I think his defense is required in this era(in fact, match him up with any tweener, and he'll outdefend them, even if he can't score well. He's the king of tweeners so to speak.) If his offense returned, then he would still be a pretty good starter.
Right now, we need quality starters in three positions: C, SF and PG. For the center position, hopefully, Bynum can get there by next year. PG, hopefully, in fact must be upgraded, through a trade for Bibby or Kidd. SF, well, that'll have to wait till next year. |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58318
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | didn't the Spurs do that with Tim Duncan? |
Spurs got Tim Duncan and a #1 pick when they already had David Robinson.
Factor in that dominant 2-way bigs always make the most impact and that they won that ring in * season where half the league was literally out of shape.
Sorry that method is almost impossible to repeat. |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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dvdrdiscs wrote: | We did that in the beginning of the season when Kobe was coming back from his knee surgery.
But the problem is that management also got blinded by Odom's game and said we are not going to trade a 28 year old budding multi-position potential superstar for someone like a 30+ year old former all star (KG) who has already peaked. |
I think it's more likely Minneapolis hasn't really entertained any notions of trading KG, and they'd want more than Odom if they did. |
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Sage_10 Star Player
Joined: 24 Dec 2005 Posts: 6668
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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I have to admit. I was wrong. I really thought LO would turn into something. I think it is time for him to go. _________________ "You Must Be Willing To Give Up That Which Can Be Lost In Order To Gain That Which Cannot Be Lost." - FORTUNE COOKIE |
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hoopschick29 Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jul 2004 Posts: 12898 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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I think it's important to emphasize that this isn't about whether or not Lamar Odom is a good player or a bad player. The question is whether or not he's the right player for what this team needs.
You look at past Phil teams that won the championships. Each and every team featured 2 guys who not only put up great numbers, but were OVERTLY dominant at what they did on a nightly basis. Michael and Scottie weren't just good every night --they were great, DOMINANT. Shaq and Kobe weren't just good every night--they were great, dominant. Both tandems fed off each other superbly, and yet both were completely self-contained in their ability to impact a game. And both tandems never had to wonder whether the other was gonna show up.
Kobe may have had his issues with shaq, but Shaq delivered every night, if by sheer talent alone. Shaq may have had his issues with Kobe, but do you think he even one time had to wonder if Kobe would show up? If nothing else was a given, the fact that Kobe was gunned and ready to go at all times was a dotta no matter the circumstances.
Lamar...I don't know. Everything I've seen leads me to believe he's just not the right fit for this team needs. _________________ So glad we gave you your flowers while you were here, Kobe. |
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gng930 Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 11475
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | KobeButler wrote: | wolfpaclaker wrote: | If I had the time, I'd go search how many threads and comments were posted in identical fashion last year about Jackson and his reasoning.
Last year Lakers went into the ASB at .500 (26-26). Their last game was a frustrating loss to the Hawks, if anyone cares to remember.
I was reading all the same stuff. Jackson's trying to show Buss that he can't win with this team.
What happenned? Was there even a small trade?
The Lakers are less desperate than they were last season at this point in time and look like they have better talent on the team that is up and coming considering 2 of their players are going to the rookie/sophmore game.
If they make a deal it will only be because they think it elevates them alot right now. The chances of any deal are slim anyway. |
I think the fact that the Lakers had a really good home stretch after ASB last season gave them more hope. Afterall the main goal of last season was just to make the playoffs.
I think our goal this year is different. I dont think were gonna just settle for making the playoffs again. I personally hope tihs losing streak convinces the front office we need more help. |
The goal this season is to improve.
Nowhere have I read Phil Jackson talk about a championship. It was stupid, jump the gun mentality that made so many believe "this was the year".
No team goes lottery to championship in a year and half. That isn't happening.
The goal as Kobe and Phil say is to improve as a team.
If they win more games than this season, advance an extra round in the playoffs .. progress is made. A goal is accomplished. Not the ultimate goal (ring) but still it is progress.
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I agree too that making the second round is progress but do you believe they can at the rate they're going? Even with last season's late surge, they only climbed one seed in the standings. I'm not so sure it's realistic but do you believe they can over-take 2 teams who still managed to gain ground on the Lakers despite injuries to their all-star big men? |
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Vlade Star Player
Joined: 08 May 2005 Posts: 2373 Location: valley of dry bone dreams
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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hoopschick29 wrote: | I think it's important to emphasize that this isn't about whether or not Lamar Odom is a good player or a bad player. The question is whether or not he's the right player for what this team needs.
You look at past Phil teams that won the championships. Each and every team featured 2 guys who not only put up great numbers, but were OVERTLY dominant at what they did on a nightly basis. Michael and Scottie weren't just good every night --they were great, DOMINANT. Shaq and Kobe weren't just good every night--they were great, dominant. Both tandems fed off each other superbly, and yet both were completely self-contained in their ability to impact a game. And both tandems never had to wonder whether the other was gonna show up.
Kobe may have had his issues with shaq, but Shaq delivered every night, if by sheer talent alone. Shaq may have had his issues with Kobe, but do you think he even one time had to wonder if Kobe would show up? If nothing else was a given, the fact that Kobe was gunned and ready to go at all times was a dotta no matter the circumstances.
Lamar...I don't know. Everything I've seen leads me to believe he's just not the right fit for this team needs. |
Eloquent as always Hoopschick... the question is, can the front office read the writing on the wall? _________________ -
"All the truth in the world adds up to one big lie." |
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hoopschick29 Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jul 2004 Posts: 12898 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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Vlade wrote: | hoopschick29 wrote: | I think it's important to emphasize that this isn't about whether or not Lamar Odom is a good player or a bad player. The question is whether or not he's the right player for what this team needs.
You look at past Phil teams that won the championships. Each and every team featured 2 guys who not only put up great numbers, but were OVERTLY dominant at what they did on a nightly basis. Michael and Scottie weren't just good every night --they were great, DOMINANT. Shaq and Kobe weren't just good every night--they were great, dominant. Both tandems fed off each other superbly, and yet both were completely self-contained in their ability to impact a game. And both tandems never had to wonder whether the other was gonna show up.
Kobe may have had his issues with shaq, but Shaq delivered every night, if by sheer talent alone. Shaq may have had his issues with Kobe, but do you think he even one time had to wonder if Kobe would show up? If nothing else was a given, the fact that Kobe was gunned and ready to go at all times was a dotta no matter the circumstances.
Lamar...I don't know. Everything I've seen leads me to believe he's just not the right fit for this team needs. |
Eloquent as always Hoopschick... the question is, can the front office read the writing on the wall? |
Well Vlade,
The hand of patience has been long and steady with Lamar. But even they have to be wondering at this point if it's time cash out their chips. If their not at least considering it, we're doomed. _________________ So glad we gave you your flowers while you were here, Kobe. |
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And 1 Star Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 2586
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | KobeButler wrote: | wolfpaclaker wrote: | If I had the time, I'd go search how many threads and comments were posted in identical fashion last year about Jackson and his reasoning.
Last year Lakers went into the ASB at .500 (26-26). Their last game was a frustrating loss to the Hawks, if anyone cares to remember.
I was reading all the same stuff. Jackson's trying to show Buss that he can't win with this team.
What happenned? Was there even a small trade?
The Lakers are less desperate than they were last season at this point in time and look like they have better talent on the team that is up and coming considering 2 of their players are going to the rookie/sophmore game.
If they make a deal it will only be because they think it elevates them alot right now. The chances of any deal are slim anyway. |
I think the fact that the Lakers had a really good home stretch after ASB last season gave them more hope. Afterall the main goal of last season was just to make the playoffs.
I think our goal this year is different. I dont think were gonna just settle for making the playoffs again. I personally hope tihs losing streak convinces the front office we need more help. |
The goal this season is to improve.
Nowhere have I read Phil Jackson talk about a championship. It was stupid, jump the gun mentality that made so many believe "this was the year".
No team goes lottery to championship in a year and half. That isn't happening.
The goal as Kobe and Phil say is to improve as a team.
If they win more games than this season, advance an extra round in the playoffs .. progress is made. A goal is accomplished. Not the ultimate goal (ring) but still it is progress.
Just like I was being told early in the season we were contenders now I'm being told we suck.
Reality is that this team is somewhere in between - better than last season and still trying to climb from the bottom in '05. |
Sorry. But weren't you the one who (along with Shoes and LakerJam) coined the phrase "one rebound away"?
Although you never explained what that meant, I don't think that it's a jump to suggest that you meant that, had the Lakers secured that crucial rebound in Game 6 against the Suns in last season's playoff match-up, the Lakers would have:
A) defeated the Clippers in the next series (simply because we took the season series from them);
B) then defeated the Mavericks who we played well against during the regular season; and then,
C) rolled into the Finals.
One rebound away...
Finish that thought for me.
Aren't you guilty of having that "jump the gun" mentality while a couple of us admonished you during the off-season to slow your roll? |
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