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Flight#24
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Joined: 18 Jun 2006
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 Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The trade deadline is Feb. 22. The Lakers haven't made a deadline deal since acquiring Glen Rice from Charlotte in 1999. |
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Runway8
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 22853
Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:12 am Post subject: |
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Kwame, Farmar, Cook and 2 first round picks. Holy crap!! Imagine how awful we'll feel when Kidd comes and we continue to play .500 ball.
Kwame, Cook, Smush, 1 st rounder and 1 second rounder.... I would sleep better. |
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RedSnapper
Star Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 1690
Location: Torrance, CA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:24 am Post subject: I would hope that isn't the offer... |
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We are going to completely gut an already paper-thin front court in exchange for a guard, AND give up our best "guard of the future" prospect AND AND ALL of our worthy expiring/tradable filler contracts AND our future 1st round draft picks for TWO YEARS for a marginal league player and an aging all-star?
Yeah, I'm sure the Nets would jump all over that deal. And we could kiss any chance at another championship for the next three years or so good-bye, and Kobe's career team goals along with it.
Size that can play is still the most valuable and difficult-to-acquire piece to the championship puzzle. Brown, Mihm (a marginal inclusion given his contract status), and Cook going out would decimate our font court depth. We are already defensively empty with just Bynum and Turiaf to fill in at Center (and Cook in an emergency or when going small.) What if one of them is injured, and we have no one?
Re-signing Smush is no lock, and the decision to do so is no slam-dunk. J Farmer is "future insurance" in the event Kidd was acquired, as someone who could learn behind him, develop over time to replace him, and offer credible backup to a frequently-injured aging veteran, if Smush isn't here (and maybe if he is.)
So, basically, this offer has us shredding our front court defense and depth, going "all-in" with virtually every trade-worthy asset we have, and financially ties our hands for several years with a substantial luxury tax to boot. In addition to trade and vet exceptions, our only flexibility for any future acquisitions/"final piece" tweaks is in our draft picks, but we wouldn't have any of those, either (except for second-rounders with zero trade value.)
This would be a deal with all the sense of the Rudy Tomjanovich contract. I think Junior has learned a little more, and wouldn't make such a destructive move again. If he did, and it passed whatever passes for final review by Senior, then the die would be cast for the future destruction of this proud franchise.
I choose not to believe this is even being considered, because to believe otherwise creates way too much cognitive dissonance...
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macwebb
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 1052
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:16 am Post subject: |
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Redsnapper
I love your sig!!! I was born in Omaha, NE and remember that play vividly...that was the game of the century...Johnny R. all the way...
I had the last laugh that day on my best friend from Kansas...he loved OK..GO BIG RED...
OK. back to J-Kidd... |
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RedSnapper
Star Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 1690
Location: Torrance, CA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:15 am Post subject: |
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| macwebb wrote: | Redsnapper
I love your sig!!! I was born in Omaha, NE and remember that play vividly...that was the game of the century...Johnny R. all the way...
I had the last laugh that day on my best friend from Kansas...he loved OK..GO BIG RED...
OK. back to J-Kidd... |
Yeah, I'm quite the contrarian. Over at my Husker board of choice, I have a Laker Avatar... 
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RePLAY
Star Player
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 1418
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| Do it Mitch! I rather go all in now than waste the next 5 years of Kobe's prime waiting for Farmar and Bynum to develop. |
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mrdectown
Star Player
Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 1144
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:47 am Post subject: Re: Kidd to Lakers May Be Nets' Best Bet |
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| Flight#24 wrote: | This is from the Net's perspective. LINK
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And with the Nets mulling over the Lakers' proposal and undoubtedly calling around the league to see if other, better ones are in the offing, it seems clear that New Jersey's front office is more or less resigned to this fate.
If it is, this offer deserves serious consideration. While the offer can take on many different forms depending on the contracts included, there's one in particular that seems the most logical. That would send Kidd and Jason Collins to the Lakers for six players — Kwame Brown, Chris Mihm, Aaron McKie, Shammond Williams, Jordan Farmar, and Brian Cook — as well as two firstround picks and cash.
Let's look at the individual pieces:
• Mihm and McKie are injured and won't play again this year. Both have expiring contracts, shaving nearly $7 million off the Nets' cap number after the season.
• Williams also has an expiring contract, though he's healthy and would probably see some backcourt minutes if he wasn't moved to a third team. That
cuts nearly $2 million more.
• Brown, a bust as the league's top overall pick in 2001, has a severely sprained ankle and may not play again this year. He has one year left on his deal before it expires, which would drop nearly $9 million from the Nets' cap number in the summer of 2008. In the meantime, he'd be a useful player in Jersey's system — he defends the high pick-and-roll well and can score in the post a little.
• Cook and especially Farmar would the bigger prizes longterm. Farmar has been one of the league's better rookie guards, and a combo of him and Marcus Williams at the point would augur well for the post-Kidd future. Cook is an outstanding long-range shooter who has become lost in the Lakers' big-man rotation, but his affordable salary is a huge plus.
• The draft picks would be helpful, but one of them wouldn't be until 2009, and both would probably be late in the first round, given the strength of the Lakers.
• Dropping Collins's deal in addition to Kidd's is important. It would remove about $6 million extra off New Jersey's cap number each of the next three years, making it much easier to rebuild the roster when Carter departs.
All told, there's a lot to like here. Some might wonder if Los Angeles would be willing to do a six-fortwo trade like this because of the impact on its depth, but when one considers the ramifications — a trio of Kobe Bryant, Lamar Odom, and Kidd would seem to be a title contender — it looks like a risk worth taking.
Other permutations of this deal work, too — for instance, the Nets could get Luke Walton or Ronny Turiaf instead of Williams — but the whole point for L.A. is to get Kidd without messing up their core. The deal above accomplishes it.
Is it the best one out there for the Nets? I think it probably will be. Kidd's contract is absolutely enormous — close to $20 million a year, with two-plus years left to go — and he's not going to hold off Father Time forever, so a lot of teams aren't interested in taking the risk. Additionally, few teams combine the Lakers' assets of expiring contracts, young players, and financial wherewithal that can make the deal happen.
And unlike Carter, who can be moved in a sign-and-trade deal during the summer even if New Jersey doesn't keep him, Kidd would have be traded now to seriously effect the rebuilding project. The offers won't be as strong in the summer because the contending teams won't show nearly the same urgency, and besides, the Nets can rebuild sooner by dealing now because two of the contracts expire almost immediately. |
After reading this and Phil's comment before the game...I am starting to think this trade might actually go through.
I think this is one of the few trades in which both teams benefit. |
whoaaaaaaa Keemosaby. May not play anymore this year? nobody else caught that?
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mrdectown
Star Player
Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 1144
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Kidd to Lakers May Be Nets' Best Bet |
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| mrdectown wrote: | | Flight#24 wrote: | This is from the Net's perspective. LINK
| Quote: |
And with the Nets mulling over the Lakers' proposal and undoubtedly calling around the league to see if other, better ones are in the offing, it seems clear that New Jersey's front office is more or less resigned to this fate.
If it is, this offer deserves serious consideration. While the offer can take on many different forms depending on the contracts included, there's one in particular that seems the most logical. That would send Kidd and Jason Collins to the Lakers for six players — Kwame Brown, Chris Mihm, Aaron McKie, Shammond Williams, Jordan Farmar, and Brian Cook — as well as two firstround picks and cash.
Let's look at the individual pieces:
• Mihm and McKie are injured and won't play again this year. Both have expiring contracts, shaving nearly $7 million off the Nets' cap number after the season.
• Williams also has an expiring contract, though he's healthy and would probably see some backcourt minutes if he wasn't moved to a third team. That
cuts nearly $2 million more.
• Brown, a bust as the league's top overall pick in 2001, has a severely sprained ankle and may not play again this year. He has one year left on his deal before it expires, which would drop nearly $9 million from the Nets' cap number in the summer of 2008. In the meantime, he'd be a useful player in Jersey's system — he defends the high pick-and-roll well and can score in the post a little.
• Cook and especially Farmar would the bigger prizes longterm. Farmar has been one of the league's better rookie guards, and a combo of him and Marcus Williams at the point would augur well for the post-Kidd future. Cook is an outstanding long-range shooter who has become lost in the Lakers' big-man rotation, but his affordable salary is a huge plus.
• The draft picks would be helpful, but one of them wouldn't be until 2009, and both would probably be late in the first round, given the strength of the Lakers.
• Dropping Collins's deal in addition to Kidd's is important. It would remove about $6 million extra off New Jersey's cap number each of the next three years, making it much easier to rebuild the roster when Carter departs.
All told, there's a lot to like here. Some might wonder if Los Angeles would be willing to do a six-fortwo trade like this because of the impact on its depth, but when one considers the ramifications — a trio of Kobe Bryant, Lamar Odom, and Kidd would seem to be a title contender — it looks like a risk worth taking.
Other permutations of this deal work, too — for instance, the Nets could get Luke Walton or Ronny Turiaf instead of Williams — but the whole point for L.A. is to get Kidd without messing up their core. The deal above accomplishes it.
Is it the best one out there for the Nets? I think it probably will be. Kidd's contract is absolutely enormous — close to $20 million a year, with two-plus years left to go — and he's not going to hold off Father Time forever, so a lot of teams aren't interested in taking the risk. Additionally, few teams combine the Lakers' assets of expiring contracts, young players, and financial wherewithal that can make the deal happen.
And unlike Carter, who can be moved in a sign-and-trade deal during the summer even if New Jersey doesn't keep him, Kidd would have be traded now to seriously effect the rebuilding project. The offers won't be as strong in the summer because the contending teams won't show nearly the same urgency, and besides, the Nets can rebuild sooner by dealing now because two of the contracts expire almost immediately. |
After reading this and Phil's comment before the game...I am starting to think this trade might actually go through.
I think this is one of the few trades in which both teams benefit. |
whoaaaaaaa Keemosaby. May not play anymore this year? nobody else caught that? |
Great i barely post here and the one time i do the frickin threads gets moved. And nobody can answer or respond to the fact that this guy thinks kwame is out for the season. it maybe bs but i wanted to get atleast some feedback. Anyone?
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I guess i'm not a business suit wearin guy like you,I'm a gangsta i suppose. Avon Barksdale |
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LarryCoon
Site Staff
Joined: 11 Aug 2002
Posts: 11265
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| I've heard nothing to corroborate Brown being out for the season. |
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Wino
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jun 2002
Posts: 9674
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:51 am Post subject: |
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This trade has me worried because it seems like the Lakers ALWAYS get burned bringing in older guys.
I look at this and wonder what happens if Kidd gets injured or if Bynum gets injured??
Collins is going to be our starting center?
We would be way more screwed than we are now, if either of those two guys gets injured.
I find myself wondering if the Lakers think that Bynum is almost ready to really step up his game and start to become a solid option????
I just look at Kidd as a great facilitator but a third or fourth option on offense. That would be determined by whether or not Bynum could become a force sooner than later.
The other thing that bothers me about this trade is that it puts 3 guys in Bynum, Odom and Kidd who really are not very aggressive on offense.
When I look at other top teams like Phoenix, Dallas, San Antonio, etc. They all have at least two guys who are pretty aggressive on offense.
Do you guys really believe that Kidd with Odom, Kobe and Bynum puts us over the top NOW??
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mrdectown
Star Player
Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 1144
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| LarryCoon wrote: | | I've heard nothing to corroborate Brown being out for the season. |
Thank you larry  Thats all i ask
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I guess i'm not a business suit wearin guy like you,I'm a gangsta i suppose. Avon Barksdale |
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drew4lakers
Star Player
Joined: 03 Jun 2002
Posts: 3417
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:20 am Post subject: |
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I would expect that a deal from the Nets perspective would heavily favor them, while a deal from the Laker perspective would heavily favor us. I basically think of this as being the nets' wish list.
Farmar plus 2 1st rounders is too much for me, especially when considering everything else that is being given up.
Substitute Smush for Farmar, and I'd be a lot happier. Then chop off one 1st round pick or exchange it for a 2nd rounder - then i'm sold.
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KobeDunk
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Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 26849
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| We're giving up WAY too much in this trade.....I don't know... |
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TEEGUNN
Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 18086
Location: rocky mountain high
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| RedSnapper wrote: | | macwebb wrote: | Redsnapper
I love your sig!!! I was born in Omaha, NE and remember that play vividly...that was the game of the century...Johnny R. all the way...
I had the last laugh that day on my best friend from Kansas...he loved OK..GO BIG RED...
OK. back to J-Kidd... |
Yeah, I'm quite the contrarian. Over at my Husker board of choice, I have a Laker Avatar... |
Which Husker board do you visit, Red??
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ProjectAB
Star Player
Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 1729
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| If it came down to that, then I would pull the trigger. However, this is why we need to explore deals with Bibby. He would cost far less, and in the right environment, could help just as much as Kidd does. |
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lakerslifer
Starting Rotation
Joined: 01 Aug 2005
Posts: 223
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Bibby will help us NO DOUBT AT ALL!! Sacramento is not in a rebuilding mode so the expiring contracts and the quality of players we are trading (unless Lamar and Bynum is included)is not going to be attractive at all to the trade partner. The Nets are listening to our offer since they are just going to tank the season and start from scratch. We are in same conference with Sacramento so it means we will be the last option if they have to deal with us. Kidd-o may be our best hope to get a star player back considering the players we are trading are not really something extra special(they just have expring contracts and that's it) This is a big risk for the Lakers acquiring Kidd. This can make or break them. But if you look at the bright side too, Phil has been very lucky with aging vets( Brian Shaw, Ron Harper, Horace Grant) This can be a move that can put them in a higher echelon in the league or may even get them to the Finals if lucky. I would think this is worth the risk....Bibby can help..we will get more point production from PG spot- if Sacramento will listen to us. Jason kidd will bring his HEART to the team night in and night out. That is the kind of player we need now!! |
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drew4lakers
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Joined: 03 Jun 2002
Posts: 3417
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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I might have some distaste for adding a King, but I'd like to have him here. But i see the chances of the Kings dealing him to us being even smaller than the chances of the Wolves dealing with us.
If we want a player from within our conference we have to wait until they become a free agent or until they are traded to an eastern Conference team who will trade with us.
Aren't all blockbuster trades basically between teams from different conferences?
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MIMLaker
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Joined: 18 Jul 2001
Posts: 10015
Location: Los Angeles/ Alhambra, CA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| drew4lakers wrote: | I would expect that a deal from the Nets perspective would heavily favor them, while a deal from the Laker perspective would heavily favor us. I basically think of this as being the nets' wish list.
Farmar plus 2 1st rounders is too much for me, especially when considering everything else that is being given up.
Substitute Smush for Farmar, and I'd be a lot happier. Then chop off one 1st round pick or exchange it for a 2nd rounder - then i'm sold. |
A-FREAKING-MEN!!!
Question is, would the Nets be sold on this?
MIM
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lakerslifer
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Joined: 01 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| MIMLaker wrote: | | drew4lakers wrote: | I would expect that a deal from the Nets perspective would heavily favor them, while a deal from the Laker perspective would heavily favor us. I basically think of this as being the nets' wish list.
Farmar plus 2 1st rounders is too much for me, especially when considering everything else that is being given up.
Substitute Smush for Farmar, and I'd be a lot happier. Then chop off one 1st round pick or exchange it for a 2nd rounder - then i'm sold. |
A-FREAKING-MEN!!!
Question is, would the Nets be sold on this?
MIM |
When they find a third team to take Collins....that is going to be the challenging part. |
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ProjectAB
Star Player
Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 1729
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| drew4lakers wrote: | I might have some distaste for adding a King, but I'd like to have him here. But i see the chances of the Kings dealing him to us being even smaller than the chances of the Wolves dealing with us.
If we want a player from within our conference we have to wait until they become a free agent or until they are traded to an eastern Conference team who will trade with us.
Aren't all blockbuster trades basically between teams from different conferences? |
The Kings are in no position to worry about a rival right now. If the deal makes sense for them financially and talent-wise, they'll do it in a heartbeat. |
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drew4lakers
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| ProjectAB wrote: | | drew4lakers wrote: | I might have some distaste for adding a King, but I'd like to have him here. But i see the chances of the Kings dealing him to us being even smaller than the chances of the Wolves dealing with us.
If we want a player from within our conference we have to wait until they become a free agent or until they are traded to an eastern Conference team who will trade with us.
Aren't all blockbuster trades basically between teams from different conferences? |
The Kings are in no position to worry about a rival right now. If the deal makes sense for them financially and talent-wise, they'll do it in a heartbeat. |
I agree that if it makes sense financially and talentwise they would do it. But it would be last resort for them. The fallout from their fans and the direct effects on their standing in the division would have to be a part of those financial decisions.
Again though, all Laker-King animosity aside, aren't all blockbuster trades basically between teams from different conferences?
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Mark_in_Tulsa
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| RedSnapper wrote: | | macwebb wrote: | Redsnapper
I love your sig!!! I was born in Omaha, NE and remember that play vividly...that was the game of the century...Johnny R. all the way...
I had the last laugh that day on my best friend from Kansas...he loved OK..GO BIG RED...
OK. back to J-Kidd... |
Yeah, I'm quite the contrarian. Over at my Husker board of choice, I have a Laker Avatar... |
BOOMER SOONER
Now back to topic....
If we can send Cook, instead of Farmar I would be all over that, like a (insert racial stereotype here)
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RCS926
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Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 16824
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker_in_Tulsa wrote: | | RedSnapper wrote: | | macwebb wrote: | Redsnapper
I love your sig!!! I was born in Omaha, NE and remember that play vividly...that was the game of the century...Johnny R. all the way...
I had the last laugh that day on my best friend from Kansas...he loved OK..GO BIG RED...
OK. back to J-Kidd... |
Yeah, I'm quite the contrarian. Over at my Husker board of choice, I have a Laker Avatar... |
BOOMER SOONER
Now back to topic....
If we can send Cook, instead of Farmar I would be all over that, like a (insert racial stereotype here) |
From what Larry has been saying, it sounds like the stalemate regarding this trade revolves around Collins, Farmar and Cook. The Nets really want to move Collins and get Farmar as well. The Lakers want nothing to do with Collins and would like to hold on to Farmar so that he can be tutored by Kidd and take over the team in a couple of years. The mediating solution appears to be the Lakers willingness to throw Cook into the deal. At this point, it appears that throwing Cook into the mix might allow the Lakers to keep Farmar and possibly avoid taking on Collins. |
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Baby G
Starting Rotation
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Posts: 258
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| wtf Kwame may not play anymore this year?! |
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Dr. Funkbot
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Joined: 24 Sep 2001
Posts: 8188
Location: Eagle Rock
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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I don't want to get rid of Farmar and I DON'T want that overpaid Collins on this team. You think that Kwame & Mihm are bad- Collins is just a stiff. He should be making Brian Cook money but he is not, he makes twice that.
We would already be doing the Nets enough of a favor taking the huge salary from INJURY WAITING TO HAPPEN JASON KIDD if we made a deal for him, NO WAY do I take on Collin's crappy contract as well.
I am telling you, in a year or two Farmar will be as good as Kidd is now. Farmar has a killer work ethic and he is already a better shooter than Kidd.
And Kidd is 34, with a bum Knee and a bad back, he is only going to get worse. DON'T want him- he is gonna be hurt and then we will still have to pay his salary, just like Brian Grant.
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