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Lakerfan 4 Life
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ALF
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 Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| Great post. The guy deserved the F. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:36 am Post subject: |
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man whoever snitched the kid out is a real bastard. i mean you shoudln't cheat but that's messed up.
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Ted
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:55 am Post subject: |
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 great post man I really needed that laugh. That thread is freakin hilarious.
Yeah, cheating is bad, but no one likes snitches. |
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eureca
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:11 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | man whoever snitched the kid out is a real bastard. i mean you shoudln't cheat but that's messed up. |
Agreed. He shouldn't have cheated, but this other guy is gonna make it his mission to snitch this guy out and possibly get him kicked out of school? Maybe he needed help with one project once and couldn't do it in time yes he did the wrong thing, but the other guy did the wrong thing also. |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:56 am Post subject: |
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My hat off to the Professor, as she's the true hero in this story. She caught the cheater, but showed class and compassion by letting him complete the assignment. While attending graduate school at Yale, one of my classmates was caught cheating. The classmate was allowed to complete the course, but not receive a diploma. She was in her final semester, and was barred from repeating the class, effectively destroying her academically. The Professor in this story could have taken the offender to the Department Chair or Dean, and done something very, very nasty. Instead she chose the high path, which was to teach a youthful offender a lesson... in both programming, and integrity.
Edit: I skipped a quite a few pages to get to the end, and I fell for the teacher's innocuous email. It looks like the prof is going to do something nasty...
Last edited by angrypuppy on Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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TACH
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| Stop Snitchin.... |
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tlim
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Joined: 26 Jun 2002
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:28 am Post subject: |
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Actually, someone cheated off of me in college. I printed out my program in college for an operating systems class and went to pick it up in another building. It was across the street. It wasn't there by the time I arrived.
Other people had already grabbed a hold of it, and started to use it as their own. I was brought in, and asked if I cheated. I would never do such a thing, and they saw the style of the code, and could tell that I wrote it.
The other one got booted from the CS department, and was not able to complete the major. The second got booted outright from the university.
Why cheat on programs? It only hurts yourself because those programs teach you the concepts and basis of your software engineering career. If you don't know it, then really, it's a disservice to yourself as well as the school. |
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999
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:24 am Post subject: |
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when i was in college cheating was the norm.... i dunno what happened now where people feel the need snitch
I mean i didnt cheat that much except for the hard classes outside my major like chemistry and bio.... BUT I WOULD NEVER SNITCH!!!! damn... that dude michael is a piece |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:24 am Post subject: |
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^
Been there as well, down to watching students fish through trash bins for code. OS course work in particular, due to its length and relatively complexity. Anyone taking an OS course is obviously a CS major. Why they would cheap themselves out of understanding the heart and soul of the machine is baffling, as it demonstrates that they picked the wrong field for a career. |
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FredG
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| Lakers999 wrote: | when i was in college cheating was the norm.... i dunno what happened now where people feel the need snitch
I mean i didnt cheat that much except for the hard classes outside my major like chemistry and bio.... BUT I WOULD NEVER SNITCH!!!! damn... that dude michael is a piece |
If you're at a university where they grade on a curve, you're cheating the whole class when you do something like that. I'm not about to sacrifice my grade for someone who's trying to get ahead of me without doing the work.
That's just bulldoodoo!
Last edited by FredG on Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Socks
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:29 am Post subject: |
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Man, that thread is just great.
I can't believe the snitch showed up on the site. And then of course his myspace page was tracked down.
I also can't believe the idiocy of the OP. I mean, the first post was stupid, but hey, people screw up and I can understand how he coulda been drawn to the dark side. But to continue to post and talk about getting back at the snitch - just not smart.
And finally, I can't believe no one has posted the URL of the prof in this thread, so I'll do it: http://www.unf.edu/~jgaudry/Personal/
Not smokin' hot, but attractive enough and certainly a lot hotter than any prof I have ever had and not necessarily what you'd expect from any sort of CS prof. |
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LarryCoon
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:41 am Post subject: |
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I've been on the opposite end of this issue -- I've been a prof (CSU Fullerton, Computer Science) and have dealt with cheaters. Even though I've only taught at the senior & grad school levels, there are still students who can only get by via cheating. Most likely they started out cheating, and as they progressed through school, never built the skillset that allowed them to complete the work in later classes. By the time they get to me, they HAVE to cheat -- or they're so used to not doing the work that they don't even try.
For those who are wondering, it's pretty obvious when students turn in work that isn't their own. For larger projects, I put in a number of very small safeguards to make it easier for me to catch people. But even without those, they're not too difficult to spot.
Essentially, when you cheat you're wagering that you're smarter than I am. Let's just say that I'm the guy who developed the curriculum, and you're the guy who can't even get through it by honest means, so I like my chances in this wager.
My responses to academic dishonesty have run the gamut. For example, there have been homework assignments where a student completed it, shared answers with another student, liked the other student's answer better, and changed their answer to match it. These were otherwise honest students who were trying to turn in the best work possible, and in this case all I did was warn them, and review the policy for sharing your work without authorization and for turning in someone else's. They were appropriately chagrined, and it didn't go any farther. Another case was where a student who obviously couldn't do the work on their own turned in a term project that was essentially 100% fabricated. That student received a zero on the project, which (partially because of the zero, but also because they were a bad student in the class) led to an F in the course. I also reported them to the University, which became part of their permanent record. This was a first year grad student, who never recovered and ended up dropping out the next semester. But this student shouldn't have been there in the first place.
Overall, if you're a cheater (especially in Computer Science) you're only hurting yourself. Even if you manage to complete your degree, what's that degree worth if you never developed the skillset to actually hold down a job? Worse -- you could someday come to ME looking for a job....
(And yes, I can spot these people pretty easily in the interview process as well....) |
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999
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| FredG wrote: | | Lakers999 wrote: | when i was in college cheating was the norm.... i dunno what happened now where people feel the need snitch
I mean i didnt cheat that much except for the hard classes outside my major like chemistry and bio.... BUT I WOULD NEVER SNITCH!!!! damn... that dude michael is a piece |
If you're at a university where they grade on a curve, you're cheating the whole class when you do something like that. I'm not about to sacrifice my grade for someone who's trying to get ahead of me without doing the work.
That's just [DELETED -- Please don't try to bypass the profanity filter....LC] |
i honestly dont care about the other person... If he cheated hes not gonna know anything and by the time a job interview comes around and if he gets hired hes not gonna know how to do crap, thus he will be the laughing stock of the office.....
Jason...who works in my office.... this post is for you |
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tlim
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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Operating Systems course was a hard class? For some, yes. Others, it was pretty darn easy. It actually was a fun class for me, always trying to beat out the performance of the standard VM manager, scheduler, etc. Hilarious stuff.
So Larry, what do you do now that you're no longer a prof? |
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Nudizl_Forshizl
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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Its even better, his mom found out and posted a message on that board under his name. She also took back his router so he couldn't come online anymore.
Comedy |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| tlim wrote: | | Operating Systems course was a hard class? For some, yes. Others, it was pretty darn easy. |
It was a hard class for me. I'm stupid.
I was forced to write an operating system from scratch, in an assembly language. Some instructors let their students got off rather easy, assigning them to code something fluffy like a spooler, using a higher level language. |
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Ziggy
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Damn that guy who snitched is a (bleep) (bleep) (bleep) (bleep) (bleep) (bleep) (bleep). |
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tlim
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | tlim wrote: | | Operating Systems course was a hard class? For some, yes. Others, it was pretty darn easy. |
It was a hard class for me. I'm stupid.
I was forced to write an operating system from scratch, in an assembly language. Some instructors let their students got off rather easy, assigning them to code something fluffy like a spooler, using a higher level language. |
Man, that's way too old school for me. Why assembly, when you could write in C, or C++? Mostly C though, as there is some performance degradation in C++. Why write it in assembly when we already wrote enough assembly in earlier classes to know how write functions, and put to parameters on the stack or on the heap, and in the right order?
Seems like an exercise in masochism. Heck, we all know why C was invented; so they could write the OS in some real constructs. |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| tlim wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | tlim wrote: | | Operating Systems course was a hard class? For some, yes. Others, it was pretty darn easy. |
It was a hard class for me. I'm stupid.
I was forced to write an operating system from scratch, in an assembly language. Some instructors let their students got off rather easy, assigning them to code something fluffy like a spooler, using a higher level language. |
Man, that's way too old school for me. Why assembly, when you could write in C, or C++? Mostly C though, as there is some performance degradation in C++. Why write it in assembly when we already wrote enough assembly in earlier classes to know how write functions, and put to parameters on the stack or on the heap, and in the right order?
Seems like an exercise in masochism. Heck, we all know why C was invented; so they could write the OS in some real constructs. |
In those days, C was a grade, not a commonly used language. The only compiler available (on that machine) was Pascal, and we weren't allowed to use it for the OS class. Making matters worse, it only required one semester of assembly language as a prerequisite, so if you were a neophyte, you were in trouble.
Some who dug through the trash bins were either too inexperienced, or underestimated what was being assigned and thus started too late. Others were simply sifting through the printouts for code that was complete and functional, as it was a tactic some used from programming course to programming course.
Last edited by angrypuppy on Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Vancouver Fan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| TACH wrote: | | Stop Snitchin.... |
nuff said. I hate f'ing snitches. Just as bad as the cheater.
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tlim
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | tlim wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | tlim wrote: | | Operating Systems course was a hard class? For some, yes. Others, it was pretty darn easy. |
It was a hard class for me. I'm stupid.
I was forced to write an operating system from scratch, in an assembly language. Some instructors let their students got off rather easy, assigning them to code something fluffy like a spooler, using a higher level language. |
Man, that's way too old school for me. Why assembly, when you could write in C, or C++? Mostly C though, as there is some performance degradation in C++. Why write it in assembly when we already wrote enough assembly in earlier classes to know how write functions, and put to parameters on the stack or on the heap, and in the right order?
Seems like an exercise in masochism. Heck, we all know why C was invented; so they could write the OS in some real constructs. |
In those days, C was a grade, not a commonly used language. The only compiler available (on that machine) was Pascal, and we weren't allowed to use it for the OS class. Making matters worse, it only required one semester of assembly language as a prerequisite, so if you were a neophyte, you were in trouble.
Some who dug through the trash bins were either too inexperienced, or underestimated what was being assigned and thus started too late. Others were simply sifting through the printouts for code that was complete and functional, as it was a tactic some used from programming course to programming course. |
Egads. I think K&R C was readily available since the early 80s... Oof.
I feel for you. Writing and doing that monotonous assembly would have been horrible too. I personally would have had nowhere near the time to write a scheduler or VM in assembly. Why do I want to write a round robin, open hash in assembly? Ewww... |
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LarryCoon
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| tlim wrote: | | So Larry, what do you do now that you're no longer a prof? |
I was always a part-timer, and my full-time job was (and is) as the technical manager/chief software architect at assist.org. |
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LarryCoon
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| tlim wrote: | | Man, that's way too old school for me. Why assembly, when you could write in C, or C++? Mostly C though, as there is some performance degradation in C++. |
And with assembly you can write tighter, faster code than C -- even better than a modern optimizing compiler can produce. The speed difference is negligible for most parts of most applications, but it's still common for critical routines to be written in asm and called from C/C++ programs. One example off the top of my head is Excel's recalc function.
Steve Gibson also provides a great explanation and some resources here:
LINK |
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Wolverine
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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It's ultimately an efficiency vs. coding-simplicity trade-off (not to mention programmer-productivity), as with a lot of things in Computer Science.
Critical sections -- which give you the most bang for your buck -- are certainly worth the maximal optimization, even if that means straight-up Assembly. But to write an entire operating system that way? Insanity. Personally, I've never really written much assembly -- how on earth do you debug that (bleep)?
There's a reason why we have high-level languages, and now even VERY-high-level-languages (Python, Perl, etc.). Rapid application development. Unfortunately, optimality has to take a back seat. But compilers are getting better. The gap is closing (ever so slowly  ). |
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