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nomoreshaq
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 5158
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 Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 2:06 pm Post subject: the kwame/bynum/vlad for JO or bust thread |
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in light of the fact that cook is BYC, it seems virtually impossible that we can take back any more salary than JO himself without giving up over half the team.
this is the only trade that makes sense financially, with the exception of trading LO which leaves us back where we started.
i've come to the conclusion that this is the "only" JO trade possible.
would you do this trade or not?
i would in a heartbeat.
your rotation would basically be:
Centers - Mihm
C/PF - JO, Turiaf
PF - Cook
SF/PF - Odom
SF - Walton
SF/SG - Kobe, Evans
PG/SG - Sasha
PG - Farmar
with the MLE still available for guard help. |
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KobeDunk
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Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 26849
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| no way the Lakers give up Kwame and Bynum for JO NO WAY! |
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Coppertop
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Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 354
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: the kwame/bynum/vlad for JO or bust thread |
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| nomoreshaq wrote: | in light of the fact that cook is BYC, it seems virtually impossible that we can take back any more salary than JO himself without giving up over half the team.
this is the only trade that makes sense financially, with the exception of trading LO which leaves us back where we started.
i've come to the conclusion that this is the "only" JO trade possible.
would you do this trade or not?
i would in a heartbeat.
your rotation would basically be:
Centers - Mihm
C/PF - JO, Turiaf
PF - Cook
SF/PF - Odom
SF - Walton
SF/SG - Kobe, Evans
PG/SG - Sasha
PG - Farmar
with the MLE still available for guard help. |
I understand where you're goin with this. I sincerely doubt the Lakers would give up both Bynum and Brown for JO. For KG, probably. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't for JO.
The more I think about it, the more I want to do something like this. I think Bynum has tons of potential, quite a bit of skill. But so does Jerome James. Now I fully expect Andrew to be better than Jerome James, but I don't know that he has the natural aggression and passion that the Lakers will need from that spot. Imagine if he had half the passion of Ronny and half the aggression of Amare. I know, I know, he's only 19. But passion and aggression show up at 19 or 20 even when fundamentals and experience do not. That said, we may want to trade Bynum before his "potential" is not as valuable. However I doubt management sees it that way. |
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Klassix
Star Player
Joined: 12 Jun 2005
Posts: 1994
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| DO IT HORSE WHISPERER! |
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Coppertop
Starting Rotation
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 354
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: the kwame/bynum/vlad for JO or bust thread |
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| nomoreshaq wrote: | in light of the fact that cook is BYC, it seems virtually impossible that we can take back any more salary than JO himself without giving up over half the team.
this is the only trade that makes sense financially, with the exception of trading LO which leaves us back where we started.
i've come to the conclusion that this is the "only" JO trade possible.
would you do this trade or not?
i would in a heartbeat.
your rotation would basically be:
Centers - Mihm
C/PF - JO, Turiaf
PF - Cook
SF/PF - Odom
SF - Walton
SF/SG - Kobe, Evans
PG/SG - Sasha
PG - Farmar
with the MLE still available for guard help. |
Actually there is another trade that works (salary-wise) which I posted a few weeks ago. I like it better from a Laker perspective - I don't know that the Pacers will bite, but we will definitely propose something similar to them.
| Quote: | L.A. Lakers Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Kwame Brown
Vladimir Radmanovic
Sasha Vujacic
Jordan Farmar
1st Round Pick (#19)
Incoming
Jermaine O'Neal
Orien Greene
Change in team outlook: -2.8 ppg, -1.7 rpg, and -2.9 apg.
Successful Scenario
Due to Indiana and L.A. Lakers being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Indiana and L.A. Lakers had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. |
Why do the Pacers do it? Three deals that expire next summer (all but Vlade's) if they so choose. Kwame is a solid defensive player. Farmar could be their future point guard (assuming they get rid of Tinsley) plus a pick.
Why the Lakers do it? Cuz they become an elite team immediately. Which is probably why the Pacers don't do it. |
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Vancouver Fan
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 17740
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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STOP MAKING JO THREADS 
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KOBEhastheMAGIC
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Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Posts: 3917
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Kwame Bynum AND Vlad is too much for JO. We wouldn't have a back up center. And JO has been declining and has been injury prone as of late. Don't get me wrong...I want him but not for our entire front line.... |
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KobeDunk
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Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 26849
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| DO IT JIM! |
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LakerJam
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Joined: 02 Aug 2002
Posts: 18411
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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TERRIBLE TRADE. For a guy whose injured EVERY SINGLE TIME THE POST-SEASON ARRIVES?! And you want to give up our entire front line? The Lakers aren't going to do that. They can't. We saw this year what happens when your front line gets decimated with injuries.
You can't give away all of our bigs for a perennially injury prone player. Seriously, that's just not going to work. |
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Socks
Franchise Player
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 10761
Location: Bay Area, CA
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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Pardon me while I puke.
 |
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PassiontoWin
Star Player
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 4034
Location: Westside
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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I would do this anyday...Kobe's prime is about to end...we already wasted 3 years of it...  |
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Jeffs
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Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 25274
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerJam wrote: | TERRIBLE TRADE. For a guy whose injured EVERY SINGLE TIME THE POST-SEASON ARRIVES?! And you want to give up our entire front line? The Lakers aren't going to do that. They can't. We saw this year what happens when your front line gets decimated with injuries.
You can't give away all of our bigs for a perennially injury prone player. Seriously, that's just not going to work. |
He's not as injury prone as Kwame. Bynum has yet to play major minutes for an entire season, so whether he will be injury prone or not is also yet to be determined.
I'd take this trade in a heartbeat. We can sign another big man for the vet min, or even have Ronny play some backup (as he has at times this past season). JO is going to be playing 35-37 MPG anyway, so it's not like the situation we have now, where our starter (Kwame) only plays 25-27 minutes per game.
Blake/Bell (MLE) - Farmar
Kobe - Evans
Luke - Young/Rush (who I hope we draft, if we don't send out our pick)
LO - Cook/Ronny
JO - LLE/Mihm/Ronny
I'd love that line-up. Sorry, Drew is great, but his upside is exactly what JO is producing now. Jermaine is still only 28 years old, the same age as Kobe. They both have 3-4 years left before they start to decline. As JO himself has shown, you can't win a title by yourself, and I don't see Andrew carrying the Lakers to the promised land without some help. Unfortunately, by the time he is ready, Kobe will not be the same Kobe anymore.
Edit: Completely forgot about the possibility of Mihm returning. He'd be a great backup center.
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Jeffs
I feel like I just watched someone TRULY give 100%. Not the BS I'm-gonna-give-a-110%-just-like-everyone-else-says platitudes, but someone that went until he just....broke. - GT |
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Bol
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 4045
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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I'd do it. To me, the only thing of value you're giving up is Bynum. Kwame is easily replaceable--please don't start with his post defense, there's more to the game than that, and he's one of the worst starting centers in the league, and worse than quite a few backups as well. Radmanovic can do some decent things when healthy, but he's an average player, and the team got nothing from him, so his loss wouldn't be felt at all.
So it basically comes down to Bynum for O'Neal, which is a good trade as far as I'm concerned. Bynum may become a very good player; O'Neal is a very good player. And just thinking of the excitement the team and the fans would feel going into next season, at least having some reason to hope they could take a step up in the standings and in the playoffs, seals the deal for me. I don't want to go into next year with the only chance of improvement being whatever Bynum has done in the offseason.
I know it's tough to part with Bynum, but there will always be other promising young players emerging, and I'm sure that after Kobe retires, the Lakers will be bad enough to get their fair share of them. Come on, people, it's time to stop clinging so passionately to the players on a mediocre team. We've gotta let 'em go. |
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scoobs
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Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 4746
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| I would do it. I would absolutely do Kwame/Radmanovic/Bynum for ONeal/Harrison. JO isn't any more injury prone then Shaq was,when we had him. We still managed to win three championships with the guy. The only thing that I would have to think about is loosing Bynum,but we are in WIN NOW MODE,so I guess that means its a no brainer. |
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ValisJason
Star Player
Joined: 13 Dec 2002
Posts: 1418
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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Id love that trade. How can you not want a trade that brings in JO while keeping Odom. For those who think giving up Kwame an d Bynum and Vlad is to much ... there is only one player there that matters: Bynum. The others are straight salary filler. Kwame can be a contributor, so can Vlad, but neither of them can be counted on (based on this year) to be a consistent contributor.
I agree with the general sentiment that giving up Odom (and Kwame, and 19th pick) for JO and Tinsley ... while it seems like an even trade, actually is not as good for the Lakers from the standpoint if winning. JO for Odom is fairly lateral (not totally, of course, because JO is more consistent offensively, not to mention on the low block, and a better defender). |
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scoobs
Star Player
Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 4746
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| KOBEhastheMAGIC wrote: | | Kwame Bynum AND Vlad is too much for JO. We wouldn't have a back up center. And JO has been declining and has been injury prone as of late. Don't get me wrong...I want him but not for our entire front line.... |
Are you freakin serious? You dont want to trade for JO because you are concerned about loosing our back up center? A back up center who cant catch a ball to save his life? Kwame and VladRad are two guys I want to see off this team ASAP,so to me,the only thing we are giving up is Bynum. We will be fine at the center position. I think we would most likely get Harrison back in the deal,and we could re-sign Mihm as well. We also have other options,like signing a center with the MLE,trading Odom for a center,or playing JO a lot at center,which Im not realy in favor of,but thats the worst case scnario,and its still better then Kwame at center! |
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scoobs
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Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 4746
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| KobeDunk wrote: | | no way the Lakers give up Kwame and Bynum for JO NO WAY! |
Kwame,Bynum,VladRad for JO,Harrison. Harrison is 7-0 270,has short arms for a big man,but atleast he could catch the damn ball when they pass it to him. His post defense is similar to Kwame's,and like Kwame hes not much of a shot blocker or rebounder but he plays solid post defense. |
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Ziggy
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Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12735
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| KobeDunk wrote: | | no way the Lakers give up Kwame and Bynum for JO NO WAY! |
Funny because when I read the title of this thread I thought, "No way Indiana would take that deal". I'm not really on the JO bandwagon, but if there is any way possible to get him without giving up Odom, we have to do it. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| I wouldn't do it. JO is a talented player, but his injury history scares me and I think the chances of him elevating us to a contending team aren't high enough to justify giving up that much. |
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cusu32000
Starting Rotation
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 576
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| i wouldnt give up either lo or bynum for jo...he simply isnt good enough to elevate the lakers to title contention...after all he shot below 44% from the field this past season and is obviously very injury prone...the only way i would deal for odom is if they accept a deal centered on kwame, vlad, and picks, and potentially farmar |
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LakerSanity
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Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 33474
Location: Long Beach, California
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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Only in LG do we have one thread saying how LO is a bum and we need to get rid of him at the same time having another thread where people are saying giving up Kwame "cakehands" Brown and a 19 year old center who hasn't proven anything is too much for one of the league's superstars.
Amazing.
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| scoobs wrote: | | I would do it. I would absolutely do Kwame/Radmanovic/Bynum for ONeal/Harrison. JO isn't any more injury prone then Shaq was,when we had him. We still managed to win three championships with the guy. The only thing that I would have to think about is loosing Bynum,but we are in WIN NOW MODE,so I guess that means its a no brainer. |
I disagree with your comparison about the O'Neals as far as injuries. Shaq played 79 games in our first ring team year, 74 in the second, and 67 in our third. We were lucky in that Shaq's one year where he missed a lot of games was one where Kobe played 80.
During the three ring years, Shaq missed an average of 8 games a year. JO has missed an average of 27 games a year over the past three years (some due to suspensions), and he ended the season hurt. Over the past three years, JO has played 44, 51, and 69 games. He is also five years older than Shaq when we acquired him. His injury history makes JO a significant gamble, in my opinion. You may decide the gamble is worth it, but don't fool yourself that the risk isn't there. |
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Ziggy
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Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12735
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | Only in LG do we have one thread saying how LO is a bum and we need to get rid of him at the same time having another thread where people are saying giving up Kwame "cakehands" Brown and a 19 year old center who hasn't proven anything is too much for one of the league's superstars.
Amazing. |
Yeah, pretty funny  I wouldn't trade Odom for JO, but I'd be willing to give up Bynum.
I think of it this way: if Bynum ever reaches the level of a JO, it won't be for about another 3 or 4 years at the earliest. So just get the guy who can contribute sooner.
But I think if we traded Odom for JO it would just be a lateral move. I don't think it would improve the team much. |
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yellowledbetter
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Joined: 28 May 2003
Posts: 1523
Location: california
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| i'd rather give up Lamar and keep Kwame to be quite honest. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | Only in LG do we have one thread saying how LO is a bum and we need to get rid of him at the same time having another thread where people are saying giving up Kwame "cakehands" Brown and a 19 year old center who hasn't proven anything is too much for one of the league's superstars.
Amazing. |
I don't see why that's a contradiction. Many people post here, with many divergent opinions, so it seems like your point is irrelevant unless it's the same posters on both threads. |
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