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| Now that you read the article, how do you feel: |
| We should trade for Kwame! |
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72% |
[ 92 ] |
| No, the guy is no good. |
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27% |
[ 35 ] |
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| Total Votes : 127 |
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yesman
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 133
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 Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| RG73 wrote: | | yesman wrote: | | I'd love to get Kwame if they think he can make a turn around. But for Caron? Please no. 16 points a game last year, with 6 boards. I would send Brian Grant and our 2 first rounders from next year's draft. |
"In the 25 games where he got ten or more shots in a game, his averages were: 16.72ppg, 9.16 rpg, on 53% shooting from the floor."
Can Caron do that?
Also, why Grant? You don't want to trade Caron, but you'd sign Kwame to a max deal (which you'd have to do to trade Grant)? And why first round picks? Why not get picks back since we're the one's assuming the risk and the Wiz get a known player. |
I wouldn't mind trading Caron if we got something back. But a straight up, Caron for Butler trade would be silly IMO. True, we need a big man. But Caron has played too well to be traded for a huge question mark. |
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LGD
Star Player
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 2605
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Wow. Looking at the results of the poll, it appears this article alone has changed the minds of many fans. |
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Cardom
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 12551
Location: UCLA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| LaKeRsLiVe wrote: | | Wow. Looking at the results of the poll, it appears this article alone has changed the minds of many fans. |
Perhaps its because everyone is finally taking a close look at Kwame, instead of talking about something they have no idea about. |
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LGD
Star Player
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 2605
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| yesman wrote: | | I wouldn't mind trading Caron if we got something back. But a straight up, Caron for Butler trade would be silly IMO. True, we need a big man. But Caron has played too well to be traded for a huge question mark. |
Of course that would be silly. Why trade Caron for Caron? Seems like a waste of time to me. |
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Cardom
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Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 12551
Location: UCLA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| LaKeRsLiVe wrote: | | yesman wrote: | | I wouldn't mind trading Caron if we got something back. But a straight up, Caron for Butler trade would be silly IMO. True, we need a big man. But Caron has played too well to be traded for a huge question mark. |
Of course that would be silly. Why trade Caron for Caron? Seems like a waste of time to me. |
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jmnluvr
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Joined: 29 Nov 2001
Posts: 1649
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder how Kobe would have turned out if he had had to play hist first season under Jordan and Doug Collins. I'm sure he would still be a superstar, but I can't believe he would have been better off.
Besides, Kwame is accused of being selfish. I think I've heard that charge leveled at Kobe once or twice, and I think I know how a lot of fans feel when they hear anyone calling Kobe selfish...
Last edited by jmnluvr on Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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yesman
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 133
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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you got my point. 
hey, it's late on the east coast. I have an excuse. Anyway, I don't think it would be in our best interests to trade our second leading scorer straight up for himself or a player whom the jury is still out on. |
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DNA
Star Player
Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 1694
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Wait a minute, so he's actually 7'0 and 275 lbs now? Can do the drop step and hook shot, shut down Duncan, only guy who can defend Shaq without fouling, wow, wow, wow. I wasn't sure who was better between him or Nene, but I've no doubts now. Make the freaking trade Mitch! |
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thegreenlaker
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Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 2728
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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Does Kwame Brown == Caron Butler? No. Caron is a better player and seems to have his head on straight. But there are a couple of other factors to consider.
1. Many people seem to be assuming Caron Butler is going to stay here when is rookie contract is up. Honestly, why would he do that if hes going to be a sixth man, utility type of player for the rest of his career while he could be starting on some other team?
2. How much is Butler worth? The Lakers are over the cap already and every extra dollar they pay for whats basically a luxury player, is another dollar they'll have to pay in taxes. If Butler doesn't get the amount he wants or believes hes worth, is he going to be satisfied playing in LA for less? And would Butler's resigning affect Buss's decision to us the MLE? I believe it would.
3. The writer of the article has a completeley dead on assessement of the Lakers's front court. The only front court players the Lakers have that have any value are Mihm and Ronny Turiaf.
4. Above average swingmen are easy to replace. The same cant be said for even just average centers/pfs.
Altogether I believe that the best team/organization decision would be to trade Butler for a big of lesser value. I'm not altogether convinced Kwame Brown is all that great, but I do believe he is an appropriate measure to what Caron Butler is worth for a big man though.
Some questions I have though that I hope someone will be able to answer.
1. How about Chris Wilcox instead? The Clippers lost Bobby Simmons and while Caron Butler is not the shooter Simmons is, I'd much rather have Butler than Cuttino Mobley if I were the Clippers.
2. Kwame is a ufa right? Why is there even talks about a trade? I'm confused. Is this to save the Lakers's mle for a pg like Marko Jaric?
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Last edited by thegreenlaker on Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:00 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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uberzev
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Joined: 25 Jan 2002
Posts: 19120
Location: SDSU
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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Other than the Kobe bashing that's an excellent article. 
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Texas_Pete
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 12825
Location: Somewhere watching a Laker game
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:56 pm Post subject: I agree, it was dead on... |
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| uberzev wrote: | | Other than the Kobe bashing that's an excellent article. |
But would you want Kwame? I say yes. Especially if Butler stays with LA, blows up, and is worth rediculous ca$h. We would not be able to afford him.... Might as well make this trade |
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KobeRe-Loaded
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Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 14944
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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I think some of you here...being Laker fans...overestimate the value of Caron Butler on the market.
He's a "swing man" SF who can play SG sometimes...they're a dime a dozen.
Not everyday where you have the opportunity to land a 7'1" 275 PF/C who's only 23.
It's worth the gamble.
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lakersflambe
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Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 1408
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| If this guy's right about Kwame -- his understanding of Kobster nothwithstanding -- then it sort transforms one's take on the kid, doesn't it. Makes you want to acquire him from the Wizards, now more than ever. |
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jmnluvr
Star Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2001
Posts: 1649
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Of course, the article is probably written by his cousin... |
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Ziggy
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12712
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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You should be more specific in your poll question. I wouldn't mind trading for Kwame, but not for Caron. It's a huge risk. If his first year is a bust, say hello to the lottery again, and we won't even get the pick unless it's top 10. The Lakers will have a hard time scoring if they have to rely on Kwame as the 2nd or 3rd option. We know Lamar isn't a scorer, we'll be lucky to get double digits from Mihm, we don't even know who the PG will be. Kobe will have to average 30 at least. I voted no.
The article did nothing to change my mind. This article takes the few GLIMPSES of brilliance that Kwame has shown, and just focuses on that. I already know about what Kwame CAN put up when he puts his mind to it. Hell I could make MYSELF sound like an NBA all-star if all I did was talked about the best parts of my game. Kwame is a nut case and he doesn't have the work ethic to play like that over an extended period of time. You people are suckers. |
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phlooidphil773
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Joined: 14 Jun 2005
Posts: 171
Location: chicago
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| yesman wrote: | | RedSnapper wrote: | | yesman wrote: |
Well some of the expiring contracts. Divac and someone else. Point is, we can make this trade happen without dealing caron. |
Why the hell would a team do a sign and trade for expiring contracts? |
An expiring contract plus draft picks when you could just lose him to Free agency is a good deal. |
new york will give them more than that trash |
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DNA
Star Player
Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 1694
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| LaKeRsLiVe wrote: | | Wow. Looking at the results of the poll, it appears this article alone has changed the minds of many fans. |
I wouldn't be surprised if it changed the minds of many "GMs." Once again, a rumor that could turn out disasterous to this team. |
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phlooidphil773
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Joined: 14 Jun 2005
Posts: 171
Location: chicago
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | I think some of you here...being Laker fans...overestimate the value of Caron Butler on the market.
He's a "swing man" SF who can play SG sometimes...they're a dime a dozen.
Not everyday where you have the opportunity to land a 7'1" 275 PF/C who's only 23.
It's worth the gamble. |
hahaha tru dat
if i had a nickel for every time I saw someone praising caron butler for one thing or another, then id have enough cash to sign bobby simmons
as much as everyone here seems to think butler is the second coming of paul pierce hes really not that good. he averaged something like 14 ppg before the entire team got hurt and then put up big numbers while we lost 19 of 21. half the players in the league can do that. the fact is, hes an solid offensive player with decent potential, but on this team hes a sixth man. with our front line, that makes butler an unnecessary luxery because we dont have a pf. if we dont trade him we'll probably end up in the lottery, best case 7 or 8 seed but that seems unlikey with GS and the Clips, Utah with Deron Williams and even Portland closing in. if we dont shore up the front line than we'll get that top ten protected pick next year because hes our only tradeable asset. AND hes going to walk next year anyway, because realistically, would you take less money to come off the bench? trade him for a big; Kwame, Mags. then we have a really good, young team that can grow together and learn how to win under Phil.
and all this stuff about Kwame being a great passer makes me interested about him and the triangle.
Last edited by phlooidphil773 on Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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A Mad Chinaman
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Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6142
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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Just a thought with the assumption the Kwame is not really a high priority for the Wizzards.
Does the salaries of the following match up:
Kwame
for
Slava/Cook |
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RoughneckPS3
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Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 1586
Location: Torrance, CA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| yesman wrote: | | cardom wrote: | | yesman wrote: | | I'd love to get Kwame if they think he can make a turn around. But for Caron? Please no. 16 points a game last year, with 6 boards. I would send Brian Grant and our 2 first rounders from next year's draft. |
I'm sure Wizards are very interested in Brian Grant's 30M contract. |
Well some of the expiring contracts. Divac and someone else. Point is, we can make this trade happen without dealing caron. |
Again we hear about expiring contracts. :roll:
Washington is looking for someone that will help them win now, not someone that will free up cap space in the future. They went to the playoffs last year and they are expecting to do better this season. They aren't going to give up a player just to free up dollars IMHO. |
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yesman
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 133
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| RoughneckPS3 wrote: | | yesman wrote: | | cardom wrote: | | yesman wrote: | | I'd love to get Kwame if they think he can make a turn around. But for Caron? Please no. 16 points a game last year, with 6 boards. I would send Brian Grant and our 2 first rounders from next year's draft. |
I'm sure Wizards are very interested in Brian Grant's 30M contract. |
Well some of the expiring contracts. Divac and someone else. Point is, we can make this trade happen without dealing caron. |
Again we hear about expiring contracts. :roll:
Washington is looking for someone that will help them win now, not someone that will free up cap space in the future. They went to the playoffs last year and they are expecting to do better this season. They aren't going to give up a player just to free up dollars IMHO. |
And I don't see them trading Kwame Brown for an immidiate impact player. He simply hasn't proved that he will be a good player. He very well might, but he's unproven as of today. You don't get 15.5 ppg starters for 7 and five 3rd stringers. Sorry, but it doesn't happen. |
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Cardom
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 12551
Location: UCLA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Mitch needs to do this right away. Can we do this deal before July 22nd? |
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LTD
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Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Posts: 463
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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There is no way in hell that he is 275 pounds. And if he is 275 pounds, there is no way in hell that it's a good 275 pounds.
BTW, after reading that article, LA should throw in Odom WITH Caron just to make sure the deal happens.
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GunShot
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Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 670
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| It's alright to get Brown, but it's not right for Butler! It would be a shame. |
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DoubleClutch
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 2712
Location: Town
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah I'd do it. If nothing else Kwame is big and pretty quick/agile and is a rather good rebounder. Even if he doesn't explode the way JO did, he'll probably be a really solid PF/C, that can rebound, play D, and score a bit on his own.
I also like the fact that he really is interchangeable at the PF and C spots. Let's you have a three man power rotation that will eventually be Kwame - Bynum - Turiaf. Could be good.
If they can sign him for 4-5 years at around 5-6 mil per I think it's a good risk/reward deal. I mean, that's what we've been paying Devean for the last 4 years and you can't tell me that 7'0" 275lbs isn't worth more to this team than DG.
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