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Darkndeep
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 Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:04 am Post subject: |
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I don't know, this looks kind of scary:
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/47247/20070720/suns_send_thomas_and_picks_to_sonics/
The suns have traded Thomas to Seattle, dumping his salary and picking up an $8 million trade exception. What for?
I mean, I know they want to cut salary, but that was also previously talked about as one of the steps they would have to take to get KG (and could Minnesota get their own $8 million trade exception from Phoenix in trading with them and cut their own salary--one of Minnesota's goals--too?). |
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24KaratGold
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Joined: 13 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:30 am Post subject: |
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True, that move makes no sense if the Suns are trying to win now. Unless they are trying to get KG. So I guess they're back in the sweepstakes.
Lakers, Suns, Warriors. Is that who's in?
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ocho
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| I would never believe anything I read from a website with such a stupid title... Especially when its an unsubstantiated rumor. |
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:43 am Post subject: |
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What trading Thomas does is it brings them significantly closer to the luxury tax limit (but still being slightly over it by about 1 million). Additionally, Phoenix only has 10 players on their roster RIGHT NOW. So they need to add at least 3 more (assuming DJ Strawberry will make the team as the 4th to meet the league minimum of 14). Thus, while the Thomas trade does reduce their luxury tax position, unless they make some trades to teams which come absorb cap space (like a GS or Charlotte), the will still be over the luxury tax limit (especially once they add those players to meet the league minimum roster).
Therefore, trading Thomas doesn't help them get KG in a lot of ways. The biggest problem is that they run into the same problem GS has in that a trade exception cannot be combined with other salaries in order to get enough money to exchange in a trade for one player with a larger salary (KG). Secondly, if they did trade for KG they will then commit themselves to paying HUGE luxury tax amounts as they would have to absord the $5-$6 million difference in incoming salary as part of a KG trade. For example, a trade of Amare, Banks, Tucker, and Atlanta's #1 pick would work (but would require them to take back around $5 mil in additional salary). They would then still need to fill their roster with not only 4 more players, but 6. This would bring their luxury tax amounts to AT LEAST around $10 million, if not more.
Really, a KG trade doesn't make sense for Phoenix... probably never did given their obvious attempts to avoid the luxury tax.
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jjigga3000
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| Notice I didn't give a response I just posted the link. I'm just passing along some info for discussion or debate. I for one will wait until something gets done or doesn't |
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re4ee
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Joined: 07 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| 24KaratGold wrote: | | FloppyDiskz wrote: | I've been considering hiring a skywriter to write " (bleep) to LA KG!"
(They charge by the letter)
who's down to chip in?!
 |
Change "to" into 2. That brings it down to 8 letters. |
Be brief
KG 2 LA
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24KaratGold
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| re4ee wrote: | | 24KaratGold wrote: | | FloppyDiskz wrote: | I've been considering hiring a skywriter to write " (bleep) to LA KG!"
(They charge by the letter)
who's down to chip in?!
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Change "to" into 2. That brings it down to 8 letters. |
Be brief
KG 2 LA |
except everyone here would go crazy and assume this meant he was coming to LA. even if they saw this thread
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facams
Sixth Man
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
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Location: Colton
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| I just wish the season was here and let the chips fall where they may |
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Mark_in_Tulsa
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Kobe>T-mac wrote: |
Kupchak is not respected by other GM's around the league but the Lakers problems lie with the owners inability to hire competent people to run the organization. Mitch is a loser sure but he is not the root of the problem. |
Now people are just making up stuff. What GM has said they don't respect him.
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KobeDunk
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| every move that is made doesn't mean that tis KG related... c'mon now! |
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Tony Almeida
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker_in_Tulsa wrote: | | Kobe>T-mac wrote: |
Kupchak is not respected by other GM's around the league but the Lakers problems lie with the owners inability to hire competent people to run the organization. Mitch is a loser sure but he is not the root of the problem. |
Now people are just making up stuff. What GM has said they don't respect him. |
I don't think he is making it up.
I recall reading something along the lines of other GM's in the league believe Mitch is a joke. It was a small paragraph in a ESPN article a few weeks before the draft, around the time Kobe went off and wanted Logo back. I really wish I had bookmarked or saved it because I don't remember who wrote the article or even what it was about. I vaguely remember it was around the time Mitch went down to Orlando or right after that.
Maybe someone can find it? |
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frijolero01
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker_in_Tulsa wrote: | | Kobe>T-mac wrote: |
Kupchak is not respected by other GM's around the league but the Lakers problems lie with the owners inability to hire competent people to run the organization. Mitch is a loser sure but he is not the root of the problem. |
Now people are just making up stuff. What GM has said they don't respect him. |
how can they not respect mitch? any trade made by mitch always favors the other team. i.e caron, shaq
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Darkndeep
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| frijolero01 wrote: | | Laker_in_Tulsa wrote: | | Kobe>T-mac wrote: |
Kupchak is not respected by other GM's around the league but the Lakers problems lie with the owners inability to hire competent people to run the organization. Mitch is a loser sure but he is not the root of the problem. |
Now people are just making up stuff. What GM has said they don't respect him. |
how can they not respect mitch? any trade made by mitch always favors the other team. i.e caron, shaq |
I'm amazed that Mitch did as well as he did on the Shaq trade, considering everyone knew he had to do it, immediately, and had a list of about two teams he could make it with. As for the Caron trade, it's funny how most people on this board seemed to be in favor of it at the time (as with the VladRad signing); now, with the benefit of hindsight, most are against it: you don't have hindsight when you trade.
Last edited by Darkndeep on Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Darkndeep
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Tony Almeida wrote: | | Laker_in_Tulsa wrote: | | Kobe>T-mac wrote: |
Kupchak is not respected by other GM's around the league but the Lakers problems lie with the owners inability to hire competent people to run the organization. Mitch is a loser sure but he is not the root of the problem. |
Now people are just making up stuff. What GM has said they don't respect him. |
I don't think he is making it up.
I recall reading something along the lines of other GM's in the league believe Mitch is a joke. It was a small paragraph in a ESPN article a few weeks before the draft, around the time Kobe went off and wanted Logo back. I really wish I had bookmarked or saved it because I don't remember who wrote the article or even what it was about. I vaguely remember it was around the time Mitch went down to Orlando or right after that.
Maybe someone can find it? |
Yeah, I'd like to see it. |
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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^What I remember was A Broussard or Sheridan blog entry from ESP insider that was talking about Kobe's demand. I think most people thought that Mitch was just the fall guy for bad decisions from the Lakers front office... not sure though, can't look it up right now.
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Tony Almeida
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | ^What I remember was A Broussard or Sheridan blog entry from ESP insider that was talking about Kobe's demand. I think most people thought that Mitch was just the fall guy for bad decisions from the Lakers front office... not sure though, can't look it up right now. |
I don't think it was an ESPN Insider article since I believe I read it on the actual ESPN site, and I don't have Insider.
Ack, this is starting to bug me now. I've been using the ESPN search to find that article, but no success yet. |
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re4ee
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Tony Almeida wrote: | | Laker_in_Tulsa wrote: | | Kobe>T-mac wrote: |
Kupchak is not respected by other GM's around the league but the Lakers problems lie with the owners inability to hire competent people to run the organization. Mitch is a loser sure but he is not the root of the problem. |
Now people are just making up stuff. What GM has said they don't respect him. |
I don't think he is making it up.
I recall reading something along the lines of other GM's in the league believe Mitch is a joke. It was a small paragraph in a ESPN article a few weeks before the draft, around the time Kobe went off and wanted Logo back. I really wish I had bookmarked or saved it because I don't remember who wrote the article or even what it was about. I vaguely remember it was around the time Mitch went down to Orlando or right after that.
Maybe someone can find it? |
"...in a ESPN article..." 'nuf said. Those clowns speculate and inject their own personal biases into the crap they write, all the time. More hyperbole from ESPN? BIG surprise!
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Tony Almeida
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| re4ee wrote: | | Tony Almeida wrote: | | Laker_in_Tulsa wrote: | | Kobe>T-mac wrote: |
Kupchak is not respected by other GM's around the league but the Lakers problems lie with the owners inability to hire competent people to run the organization. Mitch is a loser sure but he is not the root of the problem. |
Now people are just making up stuff. What GM has said they don't respect him. |
I don't think he is making it up.
I recall reading something along the lines of other GM's in the league believe Mitch is a joke. It was a small paragraph in a ESPN article a few weeks before the draft, around the time Kobe went off and wanted Logo back. I really wish I had bookmarked or saved it because I don't remember who wrote the article or even what it was about. I vaguely remember it was around the time Mitch went down to Orlando or right after that.
Maybe someone can find it? |
"...in a ESPN article..." 'nuf said. Those clowns speculate and inject their own personal biases into the crap they write, all the time. More hyperbole from ESPN? BIG surprise! |
I realize that.
It may or may not have been an accurate statement, but now it's bothering me since I can't find it.  |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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There could be a very good reason for that.
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Tony Almeida
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | There could be a very good reason for that. |
Right, because I am known for making stuff up. :roll: |
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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Here's the article I was refering to artist formerly known as Kobe 4 Prez.... (maybe you read it on here as something I once posted, because it is an insider article...or maybe this is the wrong one)......
GMs Buzzing About Kobe (05/30/07)
| Chad Ford of ESPN on 05/30/07 wrote: | • Most of the GMs I spoke with said they believe owner Jerry Buss won't trade Kobe.
They think he'll fire Mitch Kupchak, replace Kupchak with a GM that Kobe likes (probably not Jerry West, who is very close with Kupchak) and then sell Kobe on a bold course of action.
That move, by the way, is long overdue.
The bottom line, if you listen to what Kobe says, is that he thinks Kupchak lacks the courage to make a big move. He's had chances to acquire Baron Davis, Carlos Boozer and Jason Kidd but talked himself out of each trade because he didn't want to incur the risk involved.
That jibes with what a number of GMs said about Kupchak.
"He operates in the shadow of Jerry West," one GM said. "He rarely is willing to go out on a limb unless Jerry Buss mandates it like he did with Shaq. He's not the type of guy who has a stomach to pull the trigger on a big deal. Every trade involves risks. Some GMs are more willing to take them than others. Right now the Lakers need a risk-taker who knows what he's doing." |
Sorry I couldn't get it earlier, I was at work in the middle of a bunch of legal research.
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JUST-MING
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | Here's the article I was refering to artist formerly known as Kobe 4 Prez.... (maybe you read it on here as something I once posted, because it is an insider article...or maybe this is the wrong one)......
GMs Buzzing About Kobe (05/30/07)
| Chad Ford of ESPN on 05/30/07 wrote: | • Most of the GMs I spoke with said they believe owner Jerry Buss won't trade Kobe.
They think he'll fire Mitch Kupchak, replace Kupchak with a GM that Kobe likes (probably not Jerry West, who is very close with Kupchak) and then sell Kobe on a bold course of action.
That move, by the way, is long overdue.
The bottom line, if you listen to what Kobe says, is that he thinks Kupchak lacks the courage to make a big move. He's had chances to acquire Baron Davis, Carlos Boozer and Jason Kidd but talked himself out of each trade because he didn't want to incur the risk involved.
That jibes with what a number of GMs said about Kupchak.
"He operates in the shadow of Jerry West," one GM said. "He rarely is willing to go out on a limb unless Jerry Buss mandates it like he did with Shaq. He's not the type of guy who has a stomach to pull the trigger on a big deal. Every trade involves risks. Some GMs are more willing to take them than others. Right now the Lakers need a risk-taker who knows what he's doing." |
Sorry I couldn't get it earlier, I was at work in the middle of a bunch of legal research. |
Kupchak isn't a closer. He gets a deal in place, and can't close. That's it. We need a new GM. |
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goldenarmor
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | goldenarmor wrote: | | Here's a question: How much do you think Garnett's opt out clause next summer is deterring teams from offering up everything but the kitchen sink for him? |
For teams KG is interested in, none. They can negotiate for a multi-year extension prior to the trade.
For teams KG is not interested in (Boston for example), the opt out clause is a major deterent. It means playing a game of chicken.
| Quote: | | I mean, why pay the farm now when(if) you can get him for free in a year. |
Who is going to get him for free? Not LA, unless Phoenix suffers from a career ending injury to Nash. Most likely, KG will end up somewhere via a sign-and-trade. |
No, think about. Even if KG agrees to an extension with whatever team, that team STILL has to trade assets to get him. VS. not having to trade assets for him in a year. |
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Darkndeep
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:45 am Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | Here's the article I was refering to artist formerly known as Kobe 4 Prez.... (maybe you read it on here as something I once posted, because it is an insider article...or maybe this is the wrong one)......
GMs Buzzing About Kobe (05/30/07)
| Chad Ford of ESPN on 05/30/07 wrote: | • Most of the GMs I spoke with said they believe owner Jerry Buss won't trade Kobe.
They think he'll fire Mitch Kupchak, replace Kupchak with a GM that Kobe likes (probably not Jerry West, who is very close with Kupchak) and then sell Kobe on a bold course of action.
That move, by the way, is long overdue.
The bottom line, if you listen to what Kobe says, is that he thinks Kupchak lacks the courage to make a big move. He's had chances to acquire Baron Davis, Carlos Boozer and Jason Kidd but talked himself out of each trade because he didn't want to incur the risk involved.
That jibes with what a number of GMs said about Kupchak.
"He operates in the shadow of Jerry West," one GM said. "He rarely is willing to go out on a limb unless Jerry Buss mandates it like he did with Shaq. He's not the type of guy who has a stomach to pull the trigger on a big deal. Every trade involves risks. Some GMs are more willing to take them than others. Right now the Lakers need a risk-taker who knows what he's doing." |
Sorry I couldn't get it earlier, I was at work in the middle of a bunch of legal research. |
Kupchak isn't a closer. He gets a deal in place, and can't close. That's it. We need a new GM. |
Thanks for finding this. Some comments about the article itself, though.
First of all, its from an ESPN columnist, again--enough said.
Second, the article starts by referencing "what a number of GMs said," but follows that with the supposed quote of only one. How many GMs were really consulted here? Two maybe? Just the one (a jealous, Laker-despising McHale)? Or is the claimed source a complete fiction? (read below: the quote does not even make sense) I seriously doubt that there was any actual canvassing of GM opinions league-wide.
Third, it doesn't say Mitch is "not respected by other GMs around the league": it says he's not a risk-taker. There's a big difference. A lot of GMs and people in all walks of business are not risk-takers, that doesn't mean that they are not respected. It's just a different approach and philosophy that works very well for a lot of people--and people respect that. I know a guy who made $300 million from scratch who prides himself on not being a risk-taker. Is he not respected? Hardly.
Fourth, the quote itself is ridiculous: Kupchak is as active as any GM in making trades and taking risks. He laid back for a year or so not doing much to see if a young team would gel and learn a system that supposedly takes two years to learn, which is understandable (and Phil didn't seem to want trades during that time, don't forget that). Other than that, Kupchak's made a number of trades, all of which involve risk (as the supposed GM quote itself acknowledges). How many "big" trades are made by any GMs, anyway? Besides, the almost unanimous consensus around the league was Kupchak shouldn't have made the Baron and Kidd trades: virtually no GM was willing to take Baron on at the time and pretty much every opinion I've read agreed that Bynum was too much for Kidd. So why would GMs "disrespect" him for not making those deals? As for Boozer: no one outside this anonymous GM has ever said that Kupchak nixed the Boozer deal), so you have to wonder if this supposed GM even knows what he's talking about (or, again, if he even exists or was just a "source" ESPN made up).
When I see real sources suggesting anything close to a consensus of GM opinion, I'll pay attention. A single, anonymous, blathering ESPN "source" doesn't do much for me. |
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:51 am Post subject: |
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^It is possible that I posted an article which the artist formerly known as Kobe 4 Prez was not referring to.
Secondly, if you weren't a Laker fan, you would likely take what I posted as more credible than you do in your retort. You tend to dismiss it pretty quickly, assuming the holes work in a favorable perspective for Kupchak rather than a disfavorable one, when it truly could be either. Although I question ESPN opinions, I tend to believe ESPN reporting... which, in this case, was reporting from Chad Ford, so I personally find it credible.
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