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24KaratGold
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 Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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The NFL can banish Vick just going by the rule book. I've read that gambling on certain things is warranting of a lifetime ban
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Snipes
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:58 am Post subject: |
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| I dont think Vick deserves a lifetime ban from the NFL. Its easy to say...ban him for life but really I dont know if the NFL is really up for it. In the age of economics...it wont happen just because of the amount of $$ Vick brings in. Hes no pacman Jones. Vick is probably the most profitable player in the league. People that dont even watch football have the mans jersey. It's sad that a man with such talent threw it all away. But whatever, either way as much as I love dogs, i dont think Vick deserves a lifetime ban. A dog is an animal, just like a cow or pig for instance. Ever seen how those fast food companies slaughter those animals? Or use them for breeding? Jesus christ. ITs ridiculous. So its really hypocritical to "sack Vick" for life. He is a first time offender and lets not forget he is mainly the fall guy for many others who are doing this. If Vick gave up names, im sure many athletes would go to jail. Anyways, what Vick did was cruel, and I'm so depressed today I can't explain. I started watching football as a Falcon fan and Vick to me is like coke to a coke addict. Every Sunday I need my Vick fix. I need to watch his talent every sunday...without it...I'm nobody. But as sad as I am, hes gona get what he deserves. However like I said, he doesnt deserve a lifetime ban IMO. |
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lakers0505
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:20 am Post subject: |
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| 24KaratGold wrote: | | The NFL can banish Vick just going by the rule book. I've read that gambling on certain things is warranting of a lifetime ban |
Thats the part is getting overlooked , the nfl isnt tackling the dog fighting issue. They are targeting gambling as the reason to suspend him. Alot let controversial and its by the book. Also think about the NBA Ref scandal thats going on, this would give them every right to kick him out by the book. Im intersested in seeing what they do with him, i think its going to be like this.
2007 - Prison
2008 - Prison
2009 - League Suspension Kicks In
2010 - Elgible for reinstatment
He is 27 now i believe, so he would 30 by that time. Especially for a guy stil trying to develop and is anything but the prototypical qb it will be a difficult for him. But thats providing he loses anything, if he still has his legs then someone will take him in. Always going to be a (bleep) franchise than would take a flyer on him for the minimum. |
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TACH
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:05 am Post subject: |
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Personally, I don't think Vick will ever play in the league again.
But if Little (who got 8 games) is playing, and Lawrence Phillips got second and third chances, I don't see why Vick should be given the same opportunity, especially if he serves his time (and at least he is getting time for his crime,... still amazes me how you can kill a mother/wife because you were drunk driving, and all you get was probation,... Vick should hired Little's lawyer)...
But then again,.. there's a new Sheriff in town and his name is Goodell, Roger Goodell...
Last edited by TACH on Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| LuxuryBrown wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | Answer: The Longest Yard 2: Electric Boogaloo
Question: Name the movie Michael Vick will soon be starring in? |
The Darryl Henley Story? |
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Glad you remember, LB.
Darryl Henley and Tonya Harding deserve to have their stories retold, but only as a comedy. |
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LuxuryBrown
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | Answer: The Longest Yard 2: Electric Boogaloo
Question: Name the movie Michael Vick will soon be starring in? |
The Darryl Henley Story? |
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Glad you remember, LB.
Darryl Henley and Tonya Harding deserve to have their stories retold, but only as a comedy. |
Darryl was something else!
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Socks
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:54 am Post subject: |
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Man, talk about a cluster...Darryl is in jail until when? 2030? Meanwhile everyone else involved in that case is already out!
Oh Darryl, don't you know you're not supposed to hire hit men from your jail cell? Especially when they're DEA agents! |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| Snipes wrote: | | I dont think Vick deserves a lifetime ban from the NFL. Its easy to say...ban him for life but really I dont know if the NFL is really up for it. In the age of economics...it wont happen just because of the amount of $$ Vick brings in. Hes no pacman Jones. Vick is probably the most profitable player in the league. People that dont even watch football have the mans jersey. It's sad that a man with such talent threw it all away. But whatever, either way as much as I love dogs, i dont think Vick deserves a lifetime ban. A dog is an animal, just like a cow or pig for instance. Ever seen how those fast food companies slaughter those animals? Or use them for breeding? Jesus christ. ITs ridiculous. So its really hypocritical to "sack Vick" for life. He is a first time offender and lets not forget he is mainly the fall guy for many others who are doing this. If Vick gave up names, im sure many athletes would go to jail. Anyways, what Vick did was cruel, and I'm so depressed today I can't explain. I started watching football as a Falcon fan and Vick to me is like coke to a coke addict. Every Sunday I need my Vick fix. I need to watch his talent every sunday...without it...I'm nobody. But as sad as I am, hes gona get what he deserves. However like I said, he doesnt deserve a lifetime ban IMO. |
First time offender? Like he just stopped by a dog fight once? He was running a dog-fighting network!
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24KaratGold
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | Snipes wrote: | | I dont think Vick deserves a lifetime ban from the NFL. Its easy to say...ban him for life but really I dont know if the NFL is really up for it. In the age of economics...it wont happen just because of the amount of $$ Vick brings in. Hes no pacman Jones. Vick is probably the most profitable player in the league. People that dont even watch football have the mans jersey. It's sad that a man with such talent threw it all away. But whatever, either way as much as I love dogs, i dont think Vick deserves a lifetime ban. A dog is an animal, just like a cow or pig for instance. Ever seen how those fast food companies slaughter those animals? Or use them for breeding? Jesus christ. ITs ridiculous. So its really hypocritical to "sack Vick" for life. He is a first time offender and lets not forget he is mainly the fall guy for many others who are doing this. If Vick gave up names, im sure many athletes would go to jail. Anyways, what Vick did was cruel, and I'm so depressed today I can't explain. I started watching football as a Falcon fan and Vick to me is like coke to a coke addict. Every Sunday I need my Vick fix. I need to watch his talent every sunday...without it...I'm nobody. But as sad as I am, hes gona get what he deserves. However like I said, he doesnt deserve a lifetime ban IMO. |
First time offender? Like he just stopped by a dog fight once? He was running a dog-fighting network! |
Vick was the leader of the dog fighting ring. He's the one who set up the whole thing by giving money.
And the feds are trying to make an example out of Vick. If Joe Schmo sees Vick going to jail for dogfighting, he'll probably stay clear of it too.
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24KaratGold
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| Socks wrote: | Man, talk about a cluster...Darryl is in jail until when? 2030? Meanwhile everyone else involved in that case is already out!
Oh Darryl, don't you know you're not supposed to hire hit men from your jail cell? Especially when they're DEA agents! |
1995 + 20 years for drug trafficking + 21 years for trying to hire a hitman to kill the judge and witness = 2036
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Snipes
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | Snipes wrote: | | I dont think Vick deserves a lifetime ban from the NFL. Its easy to say...ban him for life but really I dont know if the NFL is really up for it. In the age of economics...it wont happen just because of the amount of $$ Vick brings in. Hes no pacman Jones. Vick is probably the most profitable player in the league. People that dont even watch football have the mans jersey. It's sad that a man with such talent threw it all away. But whatever, either way as much as I love dogs, i dont think Vick deserves a lifetime ban. A dog is an animal, just like a cow or pig for instance. Ever seen how those fast food companies slaughter those animals? Or use them for breeding? Jesus christ. ITs ridiculous. So its really hypocritical to "sack Vick" for life. He is a first time offender and lets not forget he is mainly the fall guy for many others who are doing this. If Vick gave up names, im sure many athletes would go to jail. Anyways, what Vick did was cruel, and I'm so depressed today I can't explain. I started watching football as a Falcon fan and Vick to me is like coke to a coke addict. Every Sunday I need my Vick fix. I need to watch his talent every sunday...without it...I'm nobody. But as sad as I am, hes gona get what he deserves. However like I said, he doesnt deserve a lifetime ban IMO. |
First time offender? Like he just stopped by a dog fight once? He was running a dog-fighting network! |
I know what you are saying, but he still falls under the first time offender category...because its his first offense against the law. |
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Ares24
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Co-defendant: " Vick helped drown and hang dogs that underperfomed" |
vick deserves and he better get more than 1 year! |
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24KaratGold
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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You know what would be funny, if after Vick pleaded guilty next Monday, the prosecuters and Vick's lawyers came up and said that they both think a 15 month jail time sentence would be appropriate, and the judge was like "(bleep) that. 5 years"
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Socks
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| ^^^ Very possible scenario |
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Flight#24
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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What if he pulls of a miracle and starts for the falcons next season with a clean brain, assuming he learned his lesson. 
On the other side, he goes to jail for 5 years and comes back 70 pounds over weights and is banned from the NFL.
Personally I think he will play again for some NFL team in 2009. |
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postandpivot
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| Socks wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | Socks wrote: | So let's say you're the commish. Do you ban/suspend Vick from returning to the NFL after he serves his prison sentence?
As much as I loathe what he did, I say no. If the dude has served his time, isn't that punishment enough? Should the league take away his ability to earn a living in the vocation for which he has trained? For the purposes of this situation let's assume there is a team willing to hire him when he gets out of jail and assume he is in reasonable shape. |
Since football is entertainment paid for by fans and advertisers, the league has the right to consider its image. I would get fired for this, so I have no problem if Vick does as well. |
Good point. Also demonstrates why ex-cons in general have a hard time getting jobs once they get out. The NFL and its teams will have the image issue to with no doubt. I can understand why there would be trepidation. |
they wont have an image issue. when was the last time the NFL was seen as a good guy sport? NEVER.
first off, to really really really want to play a game where you are darn near trying to take someone's head off, or you're running so your head wont be taken off. is crazy in itself. FUn? Sure, but crazy. and to an extent something has to be a tad bit off with you to really want to play that kind of sport on a pro level for a living.
example. you ever watch any of these guys life stories? you ever read about them? you ever notice that a good half of them are playing the sport as a such a high level because they have held some type of chip on their shoulders their entire life. this is literaly the fuel that has made them who they are on the football field. not all but a good half of em.
so pretty much you have 50% of the league as angry guys trying to take out frustration every sunday or monday night. you made a sport out of anger management. and we're talking about image. please.
who really watches football? football heads who know ever single stat from every single player on every single team. AND, Gamblers. the normal people watch the superbowl. or if the normal person is a girl/woman she watches with her boyfriend or husband for a sec and may end up liking the action.
so if half of your fan base. actually probably more then half, is made up of gamblers. who cares about image? No one but people who dont really watch to begin with. they heard this story know the name Vic because he is one of the faces of the nfl. and they start talking about it.
If you Ban him for life. you need to go back and band 50% of the nFL. if you do that the value of the league will drop to the point of their not being a league. if you made rules to weed out so called, "trouble makers". there wouldn't be a watchable league. cause the reason again these guys are as good as they are. is usually the same reason they are always in trouble. Anger issues, chip on the shoulder from childhood, etc, etc.
its like Mike Tyson after he start taking the peels to calm him down. he was no longer the crazy pitbull mike. he was to calm to a mike tyson fan. sure he didn't bite anyone else. but he didn't Beat anyone else that mattered either.
another thing dont be so quick to ban people from something they love doing. because of a mistake or in this case Mistakes that have been made. you and I make mistakes daily. so we dont kill dogs or fight pets for a living. great. in the grand scheme of things wrong is wrong. thats what you teach children. not a little wrong isn't as bad as a big wrong. Wrong is wrong. and if thats the case. what do we all deserve to be banned from because we 've all done something wrong at some point in our lives?
prison time is served thats your debt to society paid. stop holding grudges folks. thats it. sure we as a society hold grudges against convicted criminals all the time. it doesn't make it right.
also, lets stop making the argument that says because "he makes millions of dollars so he has to be held to a higher standarnd."
reason being. if i made a million dollars shining shoes would you care if i was allowed back into my shoe shining business 2 years after i served my jail sentence? most people could careless. and yes, I'm still a role model to someone some where.
we have this idea of pro sports in america that says these guys get paid to much to play games. well, sports is a business folks. and in that line of business they get tons of advertisement dollars. its not the ticket sales. its the ad dollars that pay the ridiculous money. basically what i'm saying is this. players dont make millions just because they ask for it. they make it because they are working for a billion dollar industry. its only fair that they get a very small piece of the big pie.
believe me these same guys would still play pro sports if here in america we only paid you 50k per year. they wouldn't care. if you love playing the sport and you can make a living doing it. you would probably play. I would play basketball for a living right now for the peanuts i make at work. why? not because i hate my current job. but because i love to play basketball. now granted the moment i find out the rest of the league is making minimum 250K. I want a pay raise. to be fair.
lets stop making these young pro athletes our saviour. then getting upset with them when you find out they're not really your saviour. they're just regular people doing stupid things (just so happen the camera was running) just like us.
as if you would really stop making life mistakes if you all of a sudden was thrown a 100 mil. please. you would make the same mistakes and possible more. because now no one can tell you anything cause you're a 100million dollar man/woman. |
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Socks
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:03 am Post subject: |
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I agree that if I was the NFL, I wouldn't ban Vick for life. To me, if a guy has served his time, that's it, he's been punished and you move on and don't prevent them from trying to move on with their lives.
But I disagree with you in that I think the NFL and individual teams would face PR issues if they did hire Vick. Ocho's response was a good example of this. While I hope the NFL doesn't ban him, I wouldn't be surprised to see teams not willing to pick Vick up.
Yeah, lots of players have run into legal trouble and aren't banned. But the new sheriff in town realized the NFL has been far too lax in this regard and that's why he was hired and that's why he's coming down hard on guys now. Just see how TJ and Pacman have been dealt with. That's going to continue. Also, Vick is a QB - face of the franchise. You can get away with CB or lineman who doesn't necessarily have a high profile doing illegal stuff. But your QB? A lot tougher.
PnP, I think you underestimate the impact to advertisers and the fan base. Drastically. No advertising I can think of would want to touch a guy who just got out of prison. I can't think of a kid who will want to beg their parents to buy them a Vick jersey when they know Vick had just been torturing a dog like their own. And I can't imagine a parent willing to buy that jersey. |
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MIMLaker
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting quote from Starbury here:
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"I think it's tough," Marbury said, according to Albany TV station Capital News 9. "I think, you know, we don't say anything about people who shoot deer or shoot other animals. You know, from what I hear, dogfighting is a sport. It's just behind closed doors."
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I guess the argument would be: humans using dogs to kill dogs is bad; humans using firearms to kill deer is good?
MIM
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ocho
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| MIMLaker wrote: | Interesting quote from Starbury here:
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"I think it's tough," Marbury said, according to Albany TV station Capital News 9. "I think, you know, we don't say anything about people who shoot deer or shoot other animals. You know, from what I hear, dogfighting is a sport. It's just behind closed doors."
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I guess the argument would be: humans using dogs to kill dogs is bad; humans using firearms to kill deer is good?
MIM |
who said humans using firearms to kill deer is good? i don't think it's good.
as a carnivore, i fully support the humane execution of animals for the sake of eating. same goes for clothing purposes. however killing for the sake of killing should be against the law. vick wasn't even just shooting dogs. he was torturing them. visciously torturing and killing via painful methods. why drown a dog? it's harder to do that than to shoot it. he did it for the sick pleasure. i'm shocked anyone wants anything to do with him ever again. |
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TACH
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| There is no reason to ask Marbury about Vick. But it seems in the 24hr coverage that every body’s opinion needs to be known.... |
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TACH
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | MIMLaker wrote: | Interesting quote from Starbury here:
| Quote: |
"I think it's tough," Marbury said, according to Albany TV station Capital News 9. "I think, you know, we don't say anything about people who shoot deer or shoot other animals. You know, from what I hear, dogfighting is a sport. It's just behind closed doors."
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I guess the argument would be: humans using dogs to kill dogs is bad; humans using firearms to kill deer is good?
MIM |
who said humans using firearms to kill deer is good? i don't think it's good.
as a carnivore, i fully support the humane execution of animals for the sake of eating. same goes for clothing purposes. however killing for the sake of killing should be against the law. vick wasn't even just shooting dogs. he was torturing them. visciously torturing and killing via painful methods. why drown a dog? it's harder to do that than to shoot it. he did it for the sick pleasure. i'm shocked anyone wants anything to do with him ever again. |
I'm not,.. Lawerence Phillips assaulted women on what seemed like a regular basis and he was given a 2nd and 3rd chance... so I'm not shocked nor surprised:
| Quote: | Christian Peter, then an All-Big Eight defensive tackle, was arrested eight times at Nebraska, where he was twice accused of rape — charges resulting in one out-of-court settlement and another conviction for sexual assault. Though the Patriots relinquished their draft rights to Peter, he would eventually play for three NFL teams.
Then there was Peter's Nebraska teammate, Lawrence Phillips, who pleaded to a brutal domestic abuse case before St. Louis took him with the sixth pick in 1996. Phillips would be arrested three times over the next 19 months. Later, the Dolphins would release him after he was accused of hitting a woman in a bar. Of course, that incident proved an insufficient deterrent for the 49ers who also gave him a shot.
Next, Rams defensive end Leonard Little. In 1998, while driving drunk, he ran a red light and killed Susan Gutweiler, a 47-year-old wife and mother. As per Little's plea deal, he got 90 nights in a work release program and 1,000 hours of community service. In 2004, Little beat another drunk driving case. Last year, he signed a new contract with St. Louis.
Jamal Lewis, a convicted drug trafficker, was suspended for all of two games.
Finally, there's Ray Lewis, who pleaded to obstruction of justice in a double-murder case |
(for more examples check out the book 'Pros and Cons: The Criminals Who Play in The NFL')
And how many of you 'Madden' people bought the 2005 version with Ray Lewis on the cover?
Like I said,.. not shocked, nor surprised if and when it happens.... |
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Snipes
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | MIMLaker wrote: | Interesting quote from Starbury here:
| Quote: |
"I think it's tough," Marbury said, according to Albany TV station Capital News 9. "I think, you know, we don't say anything about people who shoot deer or shoot other animals. You know, from what I hear, dogfighting is a sport. It's just behind closed doors."
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I guess the argument would be: humans using dogs to kill dogs is bad; humans using firearms to kill deer is good?
MIM |
who said humans using firearms to kill deer is good? i don't think it's good.
as a carnivore, i fully support the humane execution of animals for the sake of eating. same goes for clothing purposes. however killing for the sake of killing should be against the law. vick wasn't even just shooting dogs. he was torturing them. visciously torturing and killing via painful methods. why drown a dog? it's harder to do that than to shoot it. he did it for the sick pleasure. i'm shocked anyone wants anything to do with him ever again. |
He did it for sick pleasure? Is this a fact or are we assuming? |
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Socks
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| TACH wrote: |
| Quote: | | Next, Rams defensive end Leonard Little. In 1998, while driving drunk, he ran a red light and killed Susan Gutweiler, a 47-year-old wife and mother. As per Little's plea deal, he got 90 nights in a work release program and 1,000 hours of community service. In 2004, Little beat another drunk driving case. Last year, he signed a new contract with St. Louis. |
Like I said,.. not shocked, nor surprised if and when it happens.... |
This one absolutely burns me the most. I read somewhere Little was so drunk he actually got out of the car and yelled at the woman's body because she damaged his car. He had also already been busted for drunk driving. Absolutely outrageous. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Snipes wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | MIMLaker wrote: | Interesting quote from Starbury here:
| Quote: |
"I think it's tough," Marbury said, according to Albany TV station Capital News 9. "I think, you know, we don't say anything about people who shoot deer or shoot other animals. You know, from what I hear, dogfighting is a sport. It's just behind closed doors."
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I guess the argument would be: humans using dogs to kill dogs is bad; humans using firearms to kill deer is good?
MIM |
who said humans using firearms to kill deer is good? i don't think it's good.
as a carnivore, i fully support the humane execution of animals for the sake of eating. same goes for clothing purposes. however killing for the sake of killing should be against the law. vick wasn't even just shooting dogs. he was torturing them. visciously torturing and killing via painful methods. why drown a dog? it's harder to do that than to shoot it. he did it for the sick pleasure. i'm shocked anyone wants anything to do with him ever again. |
He did it for sick pleasure? Is this a fact or are we assuming? |
why else would he do it? he wasn't killing these animals for any practical purpose such as food, survival or clothing. and he was doing it in inhuamane ways that were more difficult to do.
there is no reason to electrocute or drown a dog other than sick pleasure. |
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Snipes
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| ^^I agree with that. But I thought maybe there was an official statement or something that said he did it out of pleasure. |
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