"Anybody would love to play with Kobe," - Carmelo

hoopschick29 · Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:19 am Post subject:

Please....they had so-called team chemistry and cohesion for about a half dozen games.

Then the loses start piling up.

Then the injuries started piling up.

And that was the season.

I noticed you talked about chemistry, not actual SUCCESS. Winning is still the goal, right?? Maybe not.

Or do you just want everyone circling the bonfire holding hands singing Kumbaya??
_________________
So glad we gave you your flowers while you were here, Kobe.

hoopschick29 · Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:22 am Post subject:

dmills · Star Player Joined: 18 Aug 2005 Posts: 3711

Mike@LG · Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:23 am Post subject:

NBAFan07 · Star Player Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 2087

way to hang in there and fight Wolf, I happen to agree with you.

wolfpaclaker · Retired Number Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58343

More spin.

I'm saying that the ultimate goal is to play like that WITH Kobe. However it rarely happens. If the guys and team played liked that with Kobe, you are looking at a team that is close to competing for the title. Maybe 1 player + experience away.

Instead what I've seen is that they are a .500 team with a one man show Kobe. And they are a .500 team without Kobe but the other guys stepping up.

Rarely have you seen it all come together with Kobe and them. Yes it happened in 2001, but that was what 6 years ago and it was Shaq's team.

For once I'd like to see it come together when it's Kobe's team. And people will say early last season. Well, it wasn't Kobe's team the whole training camp + early regular season. Exactly why it was working so well. The other guys got to play as big parts of the team. Once the injuries happened, Kobe had to take a bigger role and once they came back again they were spectators moreso. No, I'm not blaming him for last season's mess of an ending but it seems the Lakers play their best as a team when he is out.

And you guys talk about 2001. Shaq's team and it took Kobe sitting OUT, watching as Shaw filled in for him and the team won without him easily to come back and be a team player. Just like it took him the entire camp and watching LO rape the Suns on opening night to realize he had teammates that were worth using.

With Kobe it's forced. It's not natural being a teammate and using others. It is his biggest weakness and maybe always will be. All players have some weaknesses and this is his. Ofcourse I don't expect you guys to ever accept that.

LakerLanny · Retired Number Joined: 24 Oct 2001 Posts: 47580

I see both sides. Certainly, I don't feel Kobe's prescence pushes away any players from coming to LA...that is ludicrous. NBA players go where the money is and the Lakers bonehead decisions have not left them with enough money to lure quality players. Classic cases of overvaluing their own marginal players, again and again.

However, Kobe has not been playing to his max level for quite a while now. I have posted many times about his defense, I won't bother with it again here but let's just say it could and should be a hell of a lot better.

His offense is great, but also spotty at times with those bad shooting games on lots of attempts. I also think he has fallen too much in love with the jumper and needs to drive the ball more, even if the Donaghy's of the world are swallowing their whistles and/or fixing the games.

I kind of agree with Steve Hartman when he says Kobe is not a leader. He isn't the type of guy that inspires others to follow his example, for whatever reason. I personally think it is somewhat Kobe's fault for not getting his teammates involved at times, but the even bigger blame has to lie with scrub teammates (Walton, Vujacic, Smush, Bynum, Brown, etc) who are more than happy to let Kobe do all the work.

These other guys make NBA money, it is time that they start showing some heart and game and playing like it.
_________________
Love, Laker Lanny

magic_bryant · Franchise Player Joined: 16 Oct 2002 Posts: 18179

Is it Kobe's fault that other players defer to him to the point that he has to carry the offense, as he did in '05 and late last season? Is it his fault that Lamar Odom would rather watch Kobe than watch Kobe create an opportunity for himself? Is it Kobe's fault that the '04-'05 team was so misbalanced that it was BETTER to not have another player looking to score 20+ points when there was already 4 players needing the ball in their hands in the starting lineup?

And my point wasn't that Caron sucked. He is what he is. A good player that puts up numbers on a bad team. As YOU yourself have been screaming the last few days to anyone that would listen, "Mike James put up 20PPG and 6APG in Toronto."

Kobe may be on a bad team, but the way in which he gets his numbers is far different than anything Caron "I'm still just another dime a dozen SF" Butler does. He's a nice garbage man, iso player. He's bad at playing within a system, because he doesn't get his touches and then sulks with his energy level.

Is that Kobe's fault, too?

Put a team with players that all are highly competitive and with great motors, and Kobe will give you a title.

Too bad LA has Bynum, Odom, Radman, and Kwame on the team for at least another year likely.
_________________
Stephon Marbury on Kobe: "He's the only person on 'dis earth that can do 'dat. He guards people, like shuts 'em down. Then, to do 'dat on 'da offensive end. It's like 'Damn, I can't score on him AND he about to bust my ass."

hoopschick29 · Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:39 am Post subject:

magic_bryant · Franchise Player Joined: 16 Oct 2002 Posts: 18179

ocho · Retired Number Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 53832

it's always someone else's fault isn't it MB?

magic_bryant · Franchise Player Joined: 16 Oct 2002 Posts: 18179

Put Caron Butler on this team in place of Odom. Start Turiaf. Trade Bynum for a guy with a great motor. Start Crittenton at PG.

That team goes farther than the team does now.
_________________
Stephon Marbury on Kobe: "He's the only person on 'dis earth that can do 'dat. He guards people, like shuts 'em down. Then, to do 'dat on 'da offensive end. It's like 'Damn, I can't score on him AND he about to bust my ass."

magic_bryant · Franchise Player Joined: 16 Oct 2002 Posts: 18179

Why?

Because you've replaced all the players lacking motors with players that have great motors. The way to best utilize Kobe Bryant is to have players that simply compete and always look to put THEMSELVES in the best scoring position. Butler puts up a better defensive effort, because he gets his touches and is the true 2nd option - something he was NEVER going to be as long as Chucky Atkins and LO were on the team with he and Kobe.

Why I was adamant that LO be shipped before Butler.
_________________
Stephon Marbury on Kobe: "He's the only person on 'dis earth that can do 'dat. He guards people, like shuts 'em down. Then, to do 'dat on 'da offensive end. It's like 'Damn, I can't score on him AND he about to bust my ass."

ocho · Retired Number Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 53832

MB i realize "motor" is your new word of the day to insult every laker not named kobe...but you're running the word into the ground.

so butler getting enough touches is Lo and chucky's fault...never He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Criticized.

RCS926 · Franchise Player Joined: 05 Nov 2003 Posts: 16824