Lakers: Plan D

LakersFanKB#24 · Star Player Joined: 02 Jun 2007 Posts: 2776

i wouldnt mind trading vlad for gadzuric straight up. i'd rather have a big man who can pound inside against duncan and others than a 6'10" finesse SF who can't rebound or play defense.

RePLAY · Star Player Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 1418

davidse · Franchise Player Joined: 03 Jul 2005 Posts: 14302

LakersFanKB#24 · Star Player Joined: 02 Jun 2007 Posts: 2776

ahh ok. Now I see what you guys are saying. My bad.

i want to see this deal go down. Please, someone make it happen.

Manu · Star Player Joined: 18 Jul 2003 Posts: 3603

To me the more interesting discussion is what does this say about the Lakers thoughts on 'winning now' and with Kobe?

We're trading high commodity items (ending contracts, cheap players who produce numbers) for a 1st round pick who may or may not be able to produce...what does that say?

Is the hope that Bynum has progressed that far and that the addition of Mimh to share minutes will have that large of an effect? Or is it saying that the team sees Kobe walking/trading him, so we are stocking on on young and cheap talent now, to build something for 4-5 years down the road.

emplay · Site Staff Joined: 15 Apr 2001 Posts: 25550

the best way to build a team is by bringing in young talent on rookie contracts - yes it'd be nice to bring in some star alongside Kobe - but while we wait - how about getting a nice foundation of developing players in?
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LakerSanity · Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:45 pm Post subject:

Fan0Bynum17 · Franchise Player Joined: 30 Nov 2005 Posts: 15436

I'm surprised that so many posters here are underrating the benefit of getting a true high post PF with tri skills, we've been dying for a player like that. On top of that he's got all-star potential.

eagles nut · Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:22 pm Post subject:

I personally think the Lakers should stop waiting for the perfect trade like they did for Garnett and maybe O'Neal, and take the first feasible trade that improves the team. We all know they aren't going to make a deadline deal. Sam excuses as always. It will disrupt team chemistry. The players don't have time to adjust to the triangle. Same old. Same old.

LakerSanity · Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:38 pm Post subject:

^But who knows what deals are really out there? How many trades have taken place this offseason? The KG trade, the Richardson trade, the Thomas trade, the Randolph trade, and the R. Lewis trade... so five trades, none of which the Lakers had any chance at consumating themselves except maybe the Randolph trade which we can all agree wouldn't have been worth it.

The only trade we know we have denied so far is the JO trade. We don't even know if this Yi idea ever became serious or has the chance to become serious. Maybe it's wrong of me, but I assume that if a Kwame/Farmar/1st round pick for Simmons/Yi deal was really on the table, we would have done it by now.
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Fan0Bynum17 · Franchise Player Joined: 30 Nov 2005 Posts: 15436

LakerSanity · Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:47 pm Post subject:

^It could still be a possibility in the future as Milwaukee becomes more desperate to get something, anything out of Yi... but for now, I don't think that trade is on the table or else we would have done it because it would be a clear win for us IMO.
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Manu · Star Player Joined: 18 Jul 2003 Posts: 3603

emplay · Site Staff Joined: 15 Apr 2001 Posts: 25550

and since there's nothing else they can do - they should pass up on good opportunities?
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they-perch · Star Player Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 1184

yi is a risk, bobby simmons is a risk.

but a lot of players we flame mitch over were risks at their time

ron ron was a headcase after laying the smackdown at the palace.

baron davis was coming off of injuries and was cancerous in NO, desperately trying to get out.

Boozer was coming off of an injury and utah was extremely dissapointed in his play, reconsidering the decision to spend the big $ on him.

jason kidd was percieved as a risk because of his age and knees.

No way you can pass up this opportunity, sometimes you gamble and it pays off and sometimes you end up with a gamble like kwame that never turns out. This is a good gamble in my opinion, just like boozer or davis would have been.
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LakerSanity · Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:38 pm Post subject:

^If this opportunity exists... let's not get ahead of ourselves here. We have really no reason to believe a trade for Yi is anywhere close to being a real possibility. It could make all the sense in the world, but time has proven again and again that what makes sense to us, doesn't necessarily make sense to NBA GMs.

Now regarding your comments on risks... there are good risks and bad risks - the difference usually depends on what the difference between what you are gaining and what you would have to give up. The higher the upside and the lower the cost, the better the risk. The lower the upside and the higher the cost, the worse the risk.

Kwame + parts and draft picks for Kidd was a good risk. Bynum + Kwame + parts and draft picks for Kidd was a bad risk.

Bynum OR Odom + parts and draft picks for JO was a good risk. Bynum + Odom for JO was a bad risk.

Odom for Artest was a bad risk. kwame + picks for Artest would be a good risk.

Odom for an uninsured and often injured Davis would be a bad risk. Expiring contracts and picks for Davis would have been a good risk.

etc, etc.
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Manu · Star Player Joined: 18 Jul 2003 Posts: 3603

LAkers 4 Life · Franchise Player Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 14629

LakerSanity · Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:47 pm Post subject:

^^^If Bynum or LO's value increases, we probably wouldn't need to trade them for JO anymore as we would get enough improvement internally.

I also disagree that getting Yi AND Simmons for a cheap price of Kwame, Farmar, and a draft pick wouldn't do much to help the Kobe situation. I believe next year, Yi and Simmons would add more to this team than Kwame or Farmar would. In the long run, I don't think its even close considering we will probably lose Kwame anyways which means the trade would only be Yi/Simmons for Farmar/whoever we would have drafted with our 2008 pick. I think that trade would help this team now and in the future.

It's not so important that Kobe agree with the moves we make for the rest of the summer and this coming year. All that is important is whether those moves make this team a better one and helps Kobe and the Lakers to win more games. More success/wins = happy Kobe. Kobe could be as upset as ever, but so long as we win games, it will all go away. So who cares what Kobe thinks of a trade or non-trade, so long as it ends up being a good move.
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LAkers 4 Life · Franchise Player Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 14629

Well said LakerSanity...

Plus, I think everyone is in agreement with any trade that ships off Kwame and hopefully Sasha... 2 people stealing money from the Lakers.

emplay · Site Staff Joined: 15 Apr 2001 Posts: 25550

waiting for the perfect deal is what led to Kobe demanding out
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LakerSanity · Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:02 pm Post subject:

LAkers 4 Life · Franchise Player Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 14629

Perfect deals are rare. Miami got it from the Lakers when they traded for Shaq. Even the deals the Warriors got for Davis had some risk... but it's pretty clear you should make a trade when you receive more talent than you're giving. Too bad the Lakers have been on the wrong end of the stick on those deals one too many times.

gng930 · Franchise Player Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 11476

fansincemagic · Franchise Player Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 11076

The Vlad for Gadzuric idea is interesting. Emplay, I had a post in the Yi thread with adding Dan to the deal to make it more realistic. I'm asking what you (or anyone) would think Milwalkee's opinion of Gadzuric's value, and how realistic would it be that Jerry would open his wallet for Yi?

"Would anyone still do it with Gadzuric involved? Can't remember if this was discussed but...

RealGM Trade ID #4191293

Brown, Farmar, Evans, Vujacic and a 1st
for
Yi, Simmons, Gadzuric

Milwalkee shaves 40 million dollars worth of future salary (54 for Simmons and Gadzuric -14 in expiring deals) and the Lakers basically buy Yi. I agree that other teams have the young talent to trump any offer the Lakers may make, but look but can anyone absorb these deals and send out pieces that could fit? Though the Bucks have held firm, at the end of the day the pressure of Yi going to a big market and the ticket of some really bad deals may be worth making this move.

Many see the current deal as a steal, but IF the Buss family will open up their pockets they may take a big gamble on the youngster. If it is true that Jimmy loves the guy, and if they feel a healthy Simmons would be a nice role player next to Kobe, it makes sense. Here are your rosters...

LA
Fisher/Crittenton
Bryant/Simmons/Karl
Walton/Simmons/Radmanovic
Odom/Yi/Turiaf/Cook
Bynum/Mihm/Gadzuric

The move centers around Yi. You'd bring him along slowly and hopefully develop an Odom/Yi/Bynum frontcourt as time permits. I can honestly say that the rotation as of today is not better than this one, but some of the pieces may fit better. You'd have to make another move (again, Cook for a guard) to round it out, and having a 3rd center is a nice problem to have.

MILWALKEE
mo/farmar
redd/bell
mason/evans
villanueva/kwame
bogut/kwame

Milwalkee's "rotation" would be shortened with Bell and then Evans coming off as a 2/3 and Kwame as the 4/5. This frees them up to resign Bell longterm, and/or make a big splash next year with somewhere around 40 mill. in current salary. Farmar wouldn't make as much sense here with Mo signed long term, but maybe they find a 3rd team that wants him in return for a young big.

Basically, this is a more realistic offer for Milwalkee that has a unique feel to it IF they are serious about moving Yi."