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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58333
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 Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Wow, wolf, I would have never pegged you for the vindictive scorned ex type |
Don't go SGH on me Hector, it isn't about being vindictive .. it's about gaining the chances of making a better trade.
You start labelling me, well I have one for you.
Kobe comes first, Kobe only sort of thinking.
Teams have suspended players and still not had trouble signing FA's. There isn't an issue with FA's .. most of them are smart enough to realize that when you sign a contract it's all about money + best oppurtunity. Not about what they did to Kobe. Who cares what the Lakers did with Kobe? This isn't a brotherhood.
Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Trey
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Joined: 26 Apr 2001
Posts: 25928
Location: out there
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| KOBE 2.0 wrote: | | Trey wrote: |
I guess I just feel sad no matter what happens.. |
I feel you. trust me in no way am I excited about a Gilbert deal even if Jamison is involved but if this is our only option then you have to do the wise-thinking.
no trade excites me to tell you the truth but the reason I talk about it like I want it is because I wanna make sure we get the best deal possible. |
Thanks man.. I appreciate the understanding and the logical approach.. some are just so angry at Kobe they would trade him for anything that sounds exciting
I quit watching the NBA because of Shaq and started watching because of Kobe.. odd situation to be in.. I now love the NBA and the Lakers....
You are correct that we had better be as pragmatic as possible when entering a trade and not take on people like Brian Grant.. what a nightmare that was.. 14 million for like two years for a ghost |
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KOBE 2.0
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Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Posts: 15287
Location: Los Angeles, California
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | Think like the Lakers?
I'd have to sustain multiple concussions and spend the next week dining on lead paint chip sandwiches to sink to that level. |
What are you suggesting to make a trade in you're per favor? I know you're true favorite option is surrounding Kobe with help but that seems like its nothing going to happen.
so what trade out their excites you more then Gilbert Arenas? Bulls is certainly gonna try to make us take a worse deal then the Heat trade I don't think I can witness a Kobe trade to tell you the truth.. but I rather experience it at least knowing we did a solid job getting a good player in return then have to experience a Kobe trade and realize how we got screwed. |
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davidse
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Joined: 03 Jul 2005
Posts: 14302
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | davidse wrote: | ok - a more balanced deal:
kobe, odom, farmar, mihm, mo, 2nd
for
arenas, jamison, blatche, young, mason(filler), 1st |
So you think Kobe's going to want to play in DC with almost the same team he has in LA?  |
1. you underrated caron as a player
2. you underrate kobe's relationship with caron
3. you severely underrate how much kobe wants out of this place.
you add caron and daniels to that laker core, put them in the east, and it's a whole new ballgame.
daniels/farmar
kobe/stevenson
caron/mo
odom/songaila
haywood/mihm
* maybe thomas comes back for the playoffs ? not sure
that team is better than the current laker team AND plays in the east.
add to that more faith that kobe has in that (or any) team's management comittment to putting together a winner around him, and the possiblity of kobe accepting this deal is far from laughable.
only thing is that he'll have to be convinced that the bulls are no longer an option for him this season, and he stands to spend the entire year with the lakers if he doesn't accept this deal. |
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davidse
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Joined: 03 Jul 2005
Posts: 14302
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | davidse wrote: | you have to think like the lakers.
you have arenas and the young guys - people will pay to watch that, and yes, i also think we can be a very good team.
you have deng and whoever, and you're just another blue color nba team - at least untill one of the young guys completely blows up - which will take some time if it ever happens.
it will be very hard to get exited about that team for a couple of years imo, and really hard to watch as laker fans who are used to having a special player on their team. |
Think like the Lakers?
I'd have to sustain multiple concussions and spend the next week dining on lead paint chip sandwiches to sink to that level. |
then don't even bother trying to predict what they may or may not do.
for this laker management, any deal that brings in arenas is better than a deng deal. |
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KOBE 2.0
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Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Posts: 15287
Location: Los Angeles, California
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| Trey wrote: | Thanks man.. I appreciate the understanding and the logical approach.. some are just so angry at Kobe they would trade him for anything that sounds exciting
I quit watching the NBA because of Shaq and started watching because of Kobe.. odd situation to be in.. I now love the NBA and the Lakers....
You are correct that we had better be as pragmatic as possible when entering a trade and not take on people like Brian Grant.. what a nightmare that was.. 14 million for like two years for a ghost |
Yeah, thats the main problem... lets just hope for the best Trey if you need me I'm here for you so I can make things better for you.  |
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Trey
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Joined: 26 Apr 2001
Posts: 25928
Location: out there
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| KOBE 2.0 wrote: | | Trey wrote: | Thanks man.. I appreciate the understanding and the logical approach.. some are just so angry at Kobe they would trade him for anything that sounds exciting
I quit watching the NBA because of Shaq and started watching because of Kobe.. odd situation to be in.. I now love the NBA and the Lakers....
You are correct that we had better be as pragmatic as possible when entering a trade and not take on people like Brian Grant.. what a nightmare that was.. 14 million for like two years for a ghost |
Yeah, thats the main problem... lets just hope for the best Trey if you need me I'm here for you so I can make things better for you. |
Thanks though.. I might need it |
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hi_ma
Star Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 7952
Location: watching Kobe /Pau duo.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:26 am Post subject: |
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Baron
GA
PP
Tyson
AB
all LA except for center.
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The lakers will get prince. |
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Hector the Pup
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 35946
Location: L.A.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Quote: | | Wow, wolf, I would have never pegged you for the vindictive scorned ex type |
Don't go SGH on me Hector, it isn't about being vindictive .. it's about gaining the chances of making a better trade.
You start labelling me, well I have one for you.
Kobe comes first, Kobe only sort of thinking.
Teams have suspended players and still not had trouble signing FA's. There isn't an issue with FA's .. most of them are smart enough to realize that when you sign a contract it's all about money + best oppurtunity. Not about what they did to Kobe. Who cares what the Lakers did with Kobe? This isn't a brotherhood. |
I prefer championships come first. Championship only sort of thinking. None of the trades out there are going to move the team any closer to that end and trying to force Kobe to go where he doesn't want isn't going to change that.
FA's are also smart enough to avoid teams that show no regard for their players. Not a single one will sign here when there are clear trust issues and a disorganized FO. How long did it take for the Bulls to sign a decent FA after the 3peat years? What changed to make them attractive again? New GM.
And there's one other thing that all of the 'ooooh, Kobe hurt me so I want to hurt him back' crowd seems to be missing. Even if he waives his no trade clause, he still calls the shots on where he wants to go, even if he doesn't say a word about it.
ETO 2009
See, trade Kobe this year and the new team can't negotiate an extension until next summer, which means that option is hanging over their heads for at least this season. No team is going to want to make a run at him without assurances that they're not just getting him for 2 years and nothing can be done to give them that assurance until next summer. |
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FreakofNature
Star Player
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 9187
Location: Maui ...
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | Yeah I agree with Sky + davidse. If the Lakers were offered Arenas, and Kobe was willing to be a Wizard - he'd be one already.
The thing stopping this would be Kobe.
No suprise. Kobe is a Laker for a reason. He has been trying to screw Lakers out of the best possible deal through dictating where he goes and on what terms. That is his right and he has that power in his contract with the no trade clause. Unlike with Shaq, the Lakers are actually willing to wait and go into the season with him like that. This is why I'm saying the game being played right now is between Kobe + LA. Not LA + other franchises.
I am actually now thinking to get Kobe to actually back his statement of willing to play on Pluto, how about actually playing him 25 mpg. Screw with his legacy and stats. He wants to screw with trades - not letting the Bulls offer Deng, not going to Washington - lets screw with his stats. That would be a great way to encourage him to take a deal wherever the Lakers want. |
And that would be a great way of completely destroying the chances of the Lakers signing any respectable FA for a very very very long time. Take a look at every player associated with Team USA and immediately cross them off any wish list you might have, then look at those guys' friends in the league and cross them off the list too.
Wow, wolf, I would have never pegged you for the vindictive scorned ex type. |
WOW WOLF......... The hate for KOBE is stronger than ever I see. 
As HTP mentioned you really do sound like the vindictive scorned ex type....
WOLFYou wrote....."He has been trying to screw Lakers out of the best possible deal through dictating where he goes and on what terms".................... How can you manufacture such hate? Kobe is not trying to screw the lakers,he is looking for the best deal for himself,not looking to screw the lakers in the process.........Wolf you're hate cam out strong here,you did'nt even try to hide behind that thinly veiled curtain which shows all you're true hate this time...Wow,you out did yourself this time.... :roll:
Then Wolf...... You wrote....how about actually playing him 25 mpg. Screw with his legacy and stats..... Are you auditioning for the new circus coming to town with that comment... ....
Another thing Wolf,have you ever thought that the closest thing to KOBE game wise at least on the offensive end is Gilbert? Why would you be so very willing to send Kobe out for a "Mini me Kobe"? You would be jumping out of the frying pan nd into the fire.  .... For me I like Gil,but coming from you it makes little sense,you are very clearly a anti Kobe,Gilbert type fan....
If push comes to shove,I would say go for Gil and blatche ( I wanted Blatche back in the draft with Turiaf instead of Von wafer....
Anyways,just wow to you Wolf... |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58333
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:40 am Post subject: |
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Wow, is you guys prefering a guy that doesn't want to be here, stay here and not be pushed to take the deal the Lakers would most benefit from.
Call me vindictive, I shall ask whether you care more about hurting Kobe or getting what's best for the Lakers?
If Kobe can be pushed to take a deal that he currently doesn't want to, and that deal is the best one the Lakers can make, I would absolutely do that.
I guess I am so scorned. |
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Sage_10
Star Player
Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 6668
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:48 am Post subject: |
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I can't see Kobe wanting to go to Washington but I would not be surprised.
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"You Must Be Willing To Give Up That Which Can Be Lost In Order To Gain That Which Cannot Be Lost." - FORTUNE COOKIE |
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RG73
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Joined: 14 Jul 2001
Posts: 11508
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Yeah I agree with Sky + davidse. If the Lakers were offered Arenas, and Kobe was willing to be a Wizard - he'd be one already.
The thing stopping this would be Kobe.
No suprise. Kobe is a Laker for a reason. He has been trying to screw Lakers out of the best possible deal through dictating where he goes and on what terms. That is his right and he has that power in his contract with the no trade clause. Unlike with Shaq, the Lakers are actually willing to wait and go into the season with him like that. This is why I'm saying the game being played right now is between Kobe + LA. Not LA + other franchises.
I am actually now thinking to get Kobe to actually back his statement of willing to play on Pluto, how about actually playing him 25 mpg. Screw with his legacy and stats. He wants to screw with trades - not letting the Bulls offer Deng, not going to Washington - lets screw with his stats. That would be a great way to encourage him to take a deal wherever the Lakers want. |
Ugh. Did we not beat this one into the ground already?
First of all, you assume Phil will willingly bench Kobe. Won't happen.
Secondly, any punitive measures taken against Kobe for using his legal contractual power will lead to a legal battle. Player's union vs. Lakers. Kobe's lawyers vs. Lakers. You cannot take punitive measures against someone exercising a legal right. I mean if the Lakers want to let Kobe out of his contract for nothing, sure, bench him. I think that could be argued as a breach of contract on the Lakers end.
Beyond that....since Buss would be effectively cutting revenue to other teams (who make money when Kobe is in town), forget about any of them helping the Lakers. If the Lakers are going to be vindictive and cut profit from the other owners, the other 29 teams can play that stupid little game too.
Then you'd have the intentional tanking aspect of it. Stern won't look to kindly upon that. Don't expect the lotto balls to go in the Lakers favor. Not to mention Stern is kind likes Kobe since he's good for ratings. Kobe on the bench isn't.
Kobe can't be benched. He's worth too much money to too many people for the league to permit a player of his status being benched for simply exercising his legal rights.
If Kobe ceases to earn starter minutes, then sure, bench him. But since that will not happen as he is far and away the best player on the team, they cannot take retribution on him because he doesn't like the trade offers that they solicited. |
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RG73
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Joined: 14 Jul 2001
Posts: 11508
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Wow, is you guys prefering a guy that doesn't want to be here, stay here and not be pushed to take the deal the Lakers would most benefit from.
Call me vindictive, I shall ask whether you care more about hurting Kobe or getting what's best for the Lakers?
If Kobe can be pushed to take a deal that he currently doesn't want to, and that deal is the best one the Lakers can make, I would absolutely do that.
I guess I am so scorned. |
What is best for the Lakers is facilitating a Kobe trade and moving on. They're not going to get equal value, shouldn't expect to....there is no way to trade Kobe and have that deal put them into contention. Trading Kobe is rebuilding. So you can just get a couple of nice players and move on. What is the point of getting into some pissing war with Kobe that is going to drag on through the season? Especially when it is haggling over Luol freaking Deng. Nice player. Not even an all-star. No Deng, it isn't the end of the world. Dragging this out with Kobe, well, that is pissing away the season, screwing up the 'development' of these young players, and continuing to look like the inept FO that Kobe and Shaq and others have claimed they are. Luol Deng isn't going to sell tickets anyway. Neither is Kobe mailing it in. Neither is benching Kobe. So how about manage the payroll responsibly, and rebuild?
This vindictive, puerile crap doesn't accomplish anything. Oh, we'll show Kobe, we won't trade him without getting 5 Hall of Famers in a trade. Get real. If you can get an all-star and a starter (like, oh, Howard and Terry), that's good. Take it. Move on. Better for everyone concerned. Focus on Bynum and Critt and Farmar and Turiaf. Young, athletic, exciting, they can sell tickets. |
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pjiddy
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Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 29044
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| Gawd I hope this deal happens. ARENAS!!! |
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FreakofNature
Star Player
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 9187
Location: Maui ...
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| RG73 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | Yeah I agree with Sky + davidse. If the Lakers were offered Arenas, and Kobe was willing to be a Wizard - he'd be one already.
The thing stopping this would be Kobe.
No suprise. Kobe is a Laker for a reason. He has been trying to screw Lakers out of the best possible deal through dictating where he goes and on what terms. That is his right and he has that power in his contract with the no trade clause. Unlike with Shaq, the Lakers are actually willing to wait and go into the season with him like that. This is why I'm saying the game being played right now is between Kobe + LA. Not LA + other franchises.
I am actually now thinking to get Kobe to actually back his statement of willing to play on Pluto, how about actually playing him 25 mpg. Screw with his legacy and stats. He wants to screw with trades - not letting the Bulls offer Deng, not going to Washington - lets screw with his stats. That would be a great way to encourage him to take a deal wherever the Lakers want. |
Ugh. Did we not beat this one into the ground already?
First of all, you assume Phil will willingly bench Kobe. Won't happen.
Secondly, any punitive measures taken against Kobe for using his legal contractual power will lead to a legal battle. Player's union vs. Lakers. Kobe's lawyers vs. Lakers. You cannot take punitive measures against someone exercising a legal right. I mean if the Lakers want to let Kobe out of his contract for nothing, sure, bench him. I think that could be argued as a breach of contract on the Lakers end.
Beyond that....since Buss would be effectively cutting revenue to other teams (who make money when Kobe is in town), forget about any of them helping the Lakers. If the Lakers are going to be vindictive and cut profit from the other owners, the other 29 teams can play that stupid little game too.
Then you'd have the intentional tanking aspect of it. Stern won't look to kindly upon that. Don't expect the lotto balls to go in the Lakers favor. Not to mention Stern is kind likes Kobe since he's good for ratings. Kobe on the bench isn't.
Kobe can't be benched. He's worth too much money to too many people for the league to permit a player of his status being benched for simply exercising his legal rights.
If Kobe ceases to earn starter minutes, then sure, bench him. But since that will not happen as he is far and away the best player on the team, they cannot take retribution on him because he doesn't like the trade offers that they solicited. |
The comments above are known as ramifications Wolf.....Do you get it now....... |
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Laker7
Star Player
Joined: 24 Feb 2003
Posts: 6399
Location: Past left field
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| davidse wrote: | ok - a more balanced deal:
kobe, odom, farmar, mihm, mo, 2nd
for
arenas, jamison, blatche, young, mason(filler), 1st |
Mihm cannot be traded. Signed a one year deal. Under CBA, cannot sign for one year then be traded.
Blatche (whom I absolutley would love to have on the team) is BYC. Will be difficult to work that one.
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:05 am Post subject: |
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Washington has nothing I would want for Kobe.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Laker7
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Posts: 6399
Location: Past left field
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:05 am Post subject: |
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IMO this Wiz/Gil talk is a smoke screen to get Pax to add Deng to the deal. Someone in the FO is trying to apply pressure to the Bulls to ante up.
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Darvin Ham is an idiot! |
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KOBE 2.0
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Joined: 14 Mar 2004
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Location: Los Angeles, California
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Washington has nothing I would want for Kobe. |
Who do you prefer? the garbage offer Bulls are throwing at us? the ever lasting Dallas horrible deal of Josh/Terry?
no one is gonna bring CLOSE to value as Gilbert would... the Bulls are still the best destination if their is a Kobe trade but the Bulls don't want to give up anything. |
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ElginBaylor
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Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 10774
Location: Hoosier Nation
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| Laker7 wrote: | | davidse wrote: | ok - a more balanced deal:
kobe, odom, farmar, mihm, mo, 2nd
for
arenas, jamison, blatche, young, mason(filler), 1st |
Mihm cannot be traded. Signed a one year deal. Under CBA, cannot sign for one year then be traded.
Blatche (whom I absolutley would love to have on the team) is BYC. Will be difficult to work that one. |
Aside from the fact that Mihm cannot be traded, why would Kobe go to the Wiz to play with a bunch of the same guys he's playing with here in L.A.? Just to get away from Laker Mgmt.? I don't think so, and the Wiz without Arenas, Jamison, and Baltche even if they did have Kobe wouldn't do any better than the Lakers. If Kobe won't go to Chicago w/o Deng, he won't got the Wiz, period.
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lalfan
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Posts: 1120
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| i'm not so high on arenas, basically he's a poor man's kobe without the defense. arenas is a gunner, a scorer plain and simple, he doesn't make teammates better, bad chemistry guy(see him with jamison feuding last year). i'd pick deng plus extra over arenas anyday. unless you're the buss family, arenas sure will fill the star power left by kobe but our team's current and future will not improve much by swapping arenas for kobe. |
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Hector the Pup
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Location: L.A.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| KOBE 2.0 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Washington has nothing I would want for Kobe. |
Who do you prefer? the garbage offer Bulls are throwing at us? the ever lasting Dallas horrible deal of Josh/Terry?
no one is gonna bring CLOSE to value as Gilbert would... the Bulls are still the best destination if their is a Kobe trade but the Bulls don't want to give up anything. |
The thing is, even Arenas isn't good value. He's a decent seat filler, but he's not going to get the Lakers any closer to winning a championship, which should be the primary and sole focus of the FO at all times.
With Arenas instead of Kobe, first round exits (if they can even make the playoffs, which is far from a given) over and over and over again. Maybe 14th pick sprinkled in here and there. |
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Panthas
Star Player
Joined: 30 Dec 2005
Posts: 1262
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:20 am Post subject: |
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Obviously Kobe does not want to be here, and there is no way we are going to find someone to complement Kobe this season. We either trade now and find someone who will get us to where we need to go, or old on to a pipe that Kobe will stay with us.
Gilbert and Blanche for Kobe is the best offer out there right now. I would do it, Kobe wouldn't. Kobe a WIZ makes that team a deep playoff team but no ring.
Chicago knows that if they don't get Kobe now, they will get him later; so they will not give up Deng for Kobe. I don't even know why Deng is held in so high regard, he is little or less better than Odom, can you imagine the way works out
I understand the Kobe hate, and I understand the Kobe defense, but no matter how you cut it, Kobe has to leave.
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KOBE 2.0
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Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Posts: 15287
Location: Los Angeles, California
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| lalfan wrote: | | i'm not so high on arenas, basically he's a poor man's kobe without the defense. arenas is a gunner, a scorer plain and simple, he doesn't make teammates better, bad chemistry guy(see him with jamison feuding last year). i'd pick deng plus extra over arenas anyday. unless you're the buss family, arenas sure will fill the star power left by kobe but our team's current and future will not improve much by swapping arenas for kobe. |
Gilbert Arenas is a superstar no matter what his game is like. Deng + garbage is not gonna make us any better for now or for the future. what you're forgetting is that Arenas is 25 so he will have plenty of time to grow with Andrew. |
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