ESPN Stein Chat: Kobe / Wizards talk
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rebirth
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:02 am    Post subject:

sure its his opinion. At the end of the day whenever that is I believe Kobe ends up in a bulls uniform.
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davidse
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:02 am    Post subject:

Crazy Like Ron Artest wrote:
rebirth wrote:
SKY over at CL says that Kobe does not want to go to Washington.


He's saying that because he believes Kobe can't win there.

You know Sky. No post defense = no rings.

He's probably right and he knows his stuff better than anyone else and he's the greatest Lakers poster ever but you know, I really doubt he knows what Kobe thinks.

No matter how much sense it makes, it's just a speculation on his part.



do you have any doubt that the lakers would gladly do kobe for arenas give or take a few assets ?
i don't.

do you have any doubt that the wizards who are at a huge risk of losing arenas for nothing next summer, would trade him for kobe give or take a few assets ?
i dont'.

so why isn't kobe a wizard already ?

simple - kobe doesn't agree to be traded there.

call that speculation if you want, but i call it common sense.
and someone with sky's connections is sure to know about the possible destinations kobe agrees to be traded to.
that sounds like very basic "inside info" to me, and we all know sky has access to that.
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steve_42
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:03 am    Post subject:

Arenas and Blatche for Kobe is by far the best rumor heard so far. It will only help us, even if its not true.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:04 am    Post subject:

steve_42 wrote:
Arenas and Blatche for Kobe is by far the best rumor heard so far. It will only help us, even if its not true.


Sure, it would help us, but it wouldn't help Kobe.


No way, no how.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:05 am    Post subject:

Kobi-wan-kenobi wrote:
For those who want Arenas... Answer me this:

Are we a better team with Arenas than Kobe?

If were not, than what makes you think we can build a contendor around Arenas if we couldnt build one around Kobe?

Why would we want Arenas instead of youth if were not gonna make the playoffs anyway?


I kinda feel the same way. Arenas is the most immediate value, but really we're in the same situation. Arenas is a great player who fills seats. But like Kobe, he's a high scoring perimeter player. But not as good as Kobe. I'd rather go for a proven young talent (like deng), other good prospects (like tyrus thomas), and cap room (like PJ Brown). Ultimately what we should be shooting for is flexibility that we don't have today. There are no quick fixes - we need to rebuild. I don't know much about Blatche. If he's as good as some people here seem to think, then maybe the deal is better than Chicago possibilities, but right now, I'd lean towards a package of assets from Chicago.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:06 am    Post subject:

Isn't Blache BYC
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:07 am    Post subject:

and he was just signed wasn't he?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:07 am    Post subject:

KobeDunk wrote:
rebirth wrote:
SKY over at CL says that Kobe does not want to go to Washington.


well ya because Kobe wants to win. He knows in Washington hes no better off than here in LA. The Lakers better not crack and give him away to Chicago for a crap package! Mitch and the FO would regain my trust and respect if they could bring back a superstar in a Kobe trade.


True. Plus, if Kobe wanted to run with Deng, which was the rumored hold up of the trade, then why wouldn't he want to run with Caron again? Their friends and Butler is better than Deng. Plus, Washington can convince Kobe they are willing to build around him. They either have some cap with Jamison's expiring or they can trade Jamison's expiring for some talent: Marion?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:07 am    Post subject:

Crazy Like Ron Artest wrote:
TACH wrote:
rebirth wrote:
SKY over at CL says that Kobe does not want to go to Washington.
Just out of curiosity, how does he know?


Here's what he wrote

Quote:
Washington is not on his list. Replace Hibachi with Kobe and Washignton still doesn't go anywhere. No bigs, no D, no rings.



I take it as purely his opinion.


I agree with the general thought process on that. On the other hand, the Wiz are in the east, meaning it's much easier. Also, a person only has limited options. If he wouldn't want to go to Chicago with a "gutted" team and he wouldn't want to go to the Wiz, where can he go? It'd be a matter of just how bad Kobe wants off the Lakers.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:08 am    Post subject:

Yeah I agree with Sky + davidse. If the Lakers were offered Arenas, and Kobe was willing to be a Wizard - he'd be one already.

The thing stopping this would be Kobe.

No suprise. Kobe is a Laker for a reason. He has been trying to screw Lakers out of the best possible deal through dictating where he goes and on what terms. That is his right and he has that power in his contract with the no trade clause. Unlike with Shaq, the Lakers are actually willing to wait and go into the season with him like that. This is why I'm saying the game being played right now is between Kobe + LA. Not LA + other franchises.

I am actually now thinking to get Kobe to actually back his statement of willing to play on Pluto, how about actually playing him 25 mpg. Screw with his legacy and stats. He wants to screw with trades - not letting the Bulls offer Deng, not going to Washington - lets screw with his stats. That would be a great way to encourage him to take a deal wherever the Lakers want.


Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:09 am    Post subject:

davidse wrote:
Crazy Like Ron Artest wrote:
rebirth wrote:
SKY over at CL says that Kobe does not want to go to Washington.


He's saying that because he believes Kobe can't win there.

You know Sky. No post defense = no rings.

He's probably right and he knows his stuff better than anyone else and he's the greatest Lakers poster ever but you know, I really doubt he knows what Kobe thinks.

No matter how much sense it makes, it's just a speculation on his part.



do you have any doubt that the lakers would gladly do kobe for arenas give or take a few assets ?
i don't.

do you have any doubt that the wizards who are at a huge risk of losing arenas for nothing next summer, would trade him for kobe give or take a few assets ?
i dont'.

so why isn't kobe a wizard already ?

simple - kobe doesn't agree to be traded there.

call that speculation if you want, but i call it common sense.
and someone with sky's connections is sure to know about the possible destinations kobe agrees to be traded to.
that sounds like very basic "inside info" to me, and we all know sky has access to that.



I agree. Trust me, I'm Sky's biggest fan and I love your posts too.
I agree with you guys 100 out of 100 times.


But I still take it as a speculation, know I mean?

It's common sense but not a fact. And the way I took it, it was a speculation on Sky's part, not the inside information coming from Sky.

I apologize if I'm wrong and Sky probably is right but I still take it as his take although a probable one.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:10 am    Post subject:

TNLakersFan wrote:
Isn't Blache BYC


Yep, I was checking in the Trade Machine and the deal that works is with Songalia included instead of Blatche...
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:10 am    Post subject:

lakerican wrote:
TNLakersFan wrote:
Isn't Blache BYC


Yep, I was checking in the Trade Machine and the deal that works is with Songalia included instead of Blatche...



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:10 am    Post subject:

If that was the case with Washington it's easy to believe why he wants Chicago with Wallace in the middle, and Kobe would still get touches because he wouldn't need to throw the ball in the post much.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:10 am    Post subject:

Kobi-wan-kenobi wrote:
For those who want Arenas... Answer me this:

Are we a better team with Arenas than Kobe?

If were not, than what makes you think we can build a contendor around Arenas if we couldnt build one around Kobe?

Why would we want Arenas instead of youth if were not gonna make the playoffs anyway?



simple.

lakers could easily become contenders in a couple of years if kobe sticks around - assuming our youth continue to develope like we're hoping, and we make 1 decent trade or so.

the whole problem is that kobe won't wait and "waste" his prime. personaly - i don't blame him, and i think the lakers should have seen it coming - but that's not the isssue here.

with arenas - if he signs an extention, we buy time for the young guys to develop - while still having an atraction on the floor.

THAT is the difference.

kobe wont' wait, arenas - IF he signs, basicaly agrees to wait, and for now he'll get his kicks by taking his act to the biggest stage in the nba, knowing that contending will probably have to wait a couple of years.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:11 am    Post subject:

Kobi-wan-kenobi wrote:
For those who want Arenas... Answer me this:

Are we a better team with Arenas than Kobe?

If were not, than what makes you think we can build a contendor around Arenas if we couldnt build one around Kobe?

Why would we want Arenas instead of youth if were not gonna make the playoffs anyway?


Because Kobe wants out... it's a decent trade comapred to others that have been floated (no trade is going to be great), Gil is only 25 (which is fairly young), and has a great work ethic.

Nobody's replace Kobe's talent... it's just not going to happen... but if Kobe wants out, he wants out,... Lakers have to make the best deal for them...
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:11 am    Post subject:

Kobe will not want to go to Washington..... But I would take Arenas and Blatche at this point!
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:14 am    Post subject:

Kobi-wan-kenobi wrote:
For those who want Arenas... Answer me this:

Are we a better team with Arenas than Kobe?

If were not, than what makes you think we can build a contendor around Arenas if we couldnt build one around Kobe?

Why would we want Arenas instead of youth if were not gonna make the playoffs anyway?


I'm neither for nor against Gil coming here.

But perhaps we would be closer to being a contender with Gil IF he's more willing (than Kobe) to let the young players (Drew, obviously, and to some extenet, JC) develop into a potential contender - as the FO obviously wants??

(did that make any sense?)
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:14 am    Post subject:

TACH wrote:
Kobi-wan-kenobi wrote:
For those who want Arenas... Answer me this:

Are we a better team with Arenas than Kobe?

If were not, than what makes you think we can build a contendor around Arenas if we couldnt build one around Kobe?

Why would we want Arenas instead of youth if were not gonna make the playoffs anyway?


Because Kobe wants out... it's a decent trade comapred to others that have been floated (no trade is going to be great), Gil is only 25 (which is fairly young), and has a great work ethic.

Nobody's replace Kobe's talent... it's just not going to happen... but if Kobe wants out, he wants out,... Lakers have to make the best deal for them...


Why would the Lakers want a trade that returns 0 All-Stars?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:15 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Yeah I agree with Sky + davidse. If the Lakers were offered Arenas, and Kobe was willing to be a Wizard - he'd be one already.

The thing stopping this would be Kobe.

No suprise. Kobe is a Laker for a reason. He has been trying to screw Lakers out of the best possible deal through dictating where he goes and on what terms. That is his right and he has that power in his contract with the no trade clause. Unlike with Shaq, the Lakers are actually willing to wait and go into the season with him like that. This is why I'm saying the game being played right now is between Kobe + LA. Not LA + other franchises.

I am actually now thinking to get Kobe to actually back his statement of willing to play on Pluto, how about actually playing him 25 mpg. Screw with his legacy and stats. He wants to screw with trades - not letting the Bulls offer Deng, not going to Washington - lets screw with his stats. That would be a great way to encourage him to take a deal wherever the Lakers want.


EXCELLENT idea. I'm afraid the Lakers will have to start finding creative ways to gain leverage on Kobe. Cutting his minutes, and messing with his precious stats/legacy could be a real option.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:16 am    Post subject:

Kobi-wan-kenobi wrote:
For those who want Arenas... Answer me this:

Are we a better team with Arenas than Kobe?

If were not, than what makes you think we can build a contendor around Arenas if we couldnt build one around Kobe?

Why would we want Arenas instead of youth if were not gonna make the playoffs anyway?


1st answer : No we're not but at this point we may not have Kobe so I would rather have Gilbert than not have either of the 2.

2nd answer : We could have built one around Kobe. Just not right away as per the Laker "plan". It would take time. Gilbert would give the Lakers more time.

3rd : a healthy Odom and an improved Bynum + Arenas would be a 45 win team just like they would have been with KObe. Kobe hasnt proven that he could make anyone better, nor lead a team so I dont think Gilbert would be worst than him in this regard. He would score just as much as Kobe so you wont lose anything on the offensive end. On defense you will lose some but the way Kobe played defense last year I dont think it wuold be a huge drop off. And people will say that GIlbert is a shoot 1st PG and just chucks shots up left and right but isnt that what Kobe has done the past 2 years when he went on his 50+pts per game outbursts?

You want Equal value?? GIlbert would be the closest thing to that IMO. He's not Kobe but he's an Allstar and has qualities that makes him attractive as a Laker.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:19 am    Post subject:

Crazy Like Ron Artest wrote:
Kobe to the White House!!!!

He probably is the best candidate, anyway, right?

are you kidding? you see how bad this country has it with a guy who barely leads. swap that with a guy who has proven he has NO leadership whatsoever.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:19 am    Post subject:

CoronaDelMarSeaKings wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Yeah I agree with Sky + davidse. If the Lakers were offered Arenas, and Kobe was willing to be a Wizard - he'd be one already.

The thing stopping this would be Kobe.

No suprise. Kobe is a Laker for a reason. He has been trying to screw Lakers out of the best possible deal through dictating where he goes and on what terms. That is his right and he has that power in his contract with the no trade clause. Unlike with Shaq, the Lakers are actually willing to wait and go into the season with him like that. This is why I'm saying the game being played right now is between Kobe + LA. Not LA + other franchises.

I am actually now thinking to get Kobe to actually back his statement of willing to play on Pluto, how about actually playing him 25 mpg. Screw with his legacy and stats. He wants to screw with trades - not letting the Bulls offer Deng, not going to Washington - lets screw with his stats. That would be a great way to encourage him to take a deal wherever the Lakers want.


EXCELLENT idea. I'm afraid the Lakers will have to start finding creative ways to gain leverage on Kobe. Cutting his minutes, and messing with his precious stats/legacy could be a real option.


Kobe wants to be the BEST PLAYER EVER! I never heard him wanting to be on the BEST TEAM EVER. Its all about him, cut his minutes, his stats and he will flip!
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davidse
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:20 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Yeah I agree with Sky + davidse. If the Lakers were offered Arenas, and Kobe was willing to be a Wizard - he'd be one already.

The thing stopping this would be Kobe.

No suprise. Kobe is a Laker for a reason. He has been trying to screw Lakers out of the best possible deal through dictating where he goes and on what terms. That is his right and he has that power in his contract with the no trade clause. Unlike with Shaq, the Lakers are actually willing to wait and go into the season with him like that. This is why I'm saying the game being played right now is between Kobe + LA. Not LA + other franchises.

I am actually now thinking to get Kobe to actually back his statement of willing to play on Pluto, how about actually playing him 25 mpg. Screw with his legacy and stats. He wants to screw with trades - not letting the Bulls offer Deng, not going to Washington - lets screw with his stats. That would be a great way to encourage him to take a deal wherever the Lakers want.



imo, there is a longshot things may change - if kobe is convinced that the bulls talks fell apart and he is about to spend the next season with the lakers.
he just may want to leave so badly that going to the e.c. to play with his friend caron would seem better than staying here ?

question is though, when will he conclude that it's either add more teams to the list or stay in la ?
that will probably take some time - if it ever happens.

i'm afraid that screwing with kobe's minutes and stats might backfire in terms of his trade value.
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CoronaDelMarSeaKings
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:21 am    Post subject:

Arenas would actually love and enjoy being a Laker.
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