there are 4 players in the league averaging a double double and 2+ blocks a game
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nomoreshaq
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:48 am    Post subject: there are 4 players in the league averaging a double double and 2+ blocks a game

1. dwight howard - 23.6/15.3/2.7, 38.7 minutes
2. chris kaman - 18.3/14.0/2.7, 38.9 minutes
3. yao ming - 21.8/10.3/2.3, 37.3
4. ANDREW BYNUM - 11.1/10.0/2.1, 27.2 minutes
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MBLakerfan
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:50 am    Post subject:

They other 3 average "man-up" double doubles though.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:56 am    Post subject:

^^ The other 3 average about 10 minutes more a game too. I think next year Bynum will be able to put up Kaman type numbers if given the playing time.
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Murdock
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:59 am    Post subject:

Quote:
1. dwight howard - 23.6/15.3/2.7, 38.7 minutes


overrated
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KOBEhastheMAGIC
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:04 am    Post subject:

Murdock wrote:
Quote:
1. dwight howard - 23.6/15.3/2.7, 38.7 minutes


overrated


If Dwight Howard is overrated then Bynum is the worst player in the NBA.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:07 am    Post subject:

Murdock wrote:
Quote:
1. dwight howard - 23.6/15.3/2.7, 38.7 minutes


overrated

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Dorray
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:08 am    Post subject:

uberzev wrote:
Murdock wrote:
Quote:
1. dwight howard - 23.6/15.3/2.7, 38.7 minutes


overrated


I'm hoping it is a joke.
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Murdock
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:11 am    Post subject:

Dorray wrote:
uberzev wrote:
Murdock wrote:
Quote:
1. dwight howard - 23.6/15.3/2.7, 38.7 minutes


overrated


I'm hoping it is a joke.


No, no joke. I don't think Howard's all that. I think he'll put up good numbers but have very limited post season success.
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Jeffs
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:15 am    Post subject:

Any reason for that bold prognostication?

Personally, I think Howard is unquestionably the best center in the league this year, and he is only going to get better.
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Dorray
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:20 am    Post subject:

Jeffs wrote:
Any reason for that bold prognostication?

Personally, I think Howard is unquestionably the best center in the league this year, and he is only going to get better.


Yeah I'd like to know why you think he won't perform, or his team won't perform in the post season. I also think D12 is the best center in the league.
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Runway8
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:26 am    Post subject:

I can understand the "overrated" comment. Because of the talent pool, D. Howard looks like a monster and gets a lot of hype. He's a defensive force no doubt, but nobody is talking about how he has a limited offensive repertoire. Now imagine if he were playing in a league with D. Robinson, Hakeem, Shaq and Patrick in their primes. D. Howard would rank 5th on this list, and if he works hard at it, maybe he can take the 4th spot by nudging out Ewing.

Howard is still young and has a long way to go, especially on the offensive side. He reminds me a lot of David Robinson in terms of his body structure, but not even close on the offensive end. Deny Howard the dunk and you'll be okay. When Howard has the ball in the post, you don't fear him like you do with D. Rob, Hakeem and Shaq. But like I said, Howard is young and has a great chance.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:41 am    Post subject:

Jeffs wrote:
Any reason for that bold prognostication?

Personally, I think Howard is unquestionably the best center in the league this year, and he is only going to get better.


He's putting up great numbers on a very bad team in a very weak conference.

I don't see the team he's on having much post season success.

Yao Ming has been the best center in the league for the last couple seasons at least.. and he too has had very little post season success.

Dirk Nowitzki has put up great regular season numbers for years.

The point being, I don't think he'll have much post season success. Naturally it remains to be seen, but I think his career path will be very similar to Shaq's in Orlando with several sweeps, collapses and frustration. He'll put up good numbers, not unlike Nowitzki or Ming but will ultimately be questioned as his team continues to collapse through the years.

I think Bynum will have MUCH much greater post season success than Howard will.


Last edited by Murdock on Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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lakersboy
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:42 am    Post subject:

is one of them sNaq?

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Last edited by lakersboy on Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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EHL_2
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:42 am    Post subject:

^ Magic are one of the top 5 teams in the league. They're no where near "bad".
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Dorray
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:43 am    Post subject:

EHL_2 wrote:
^ Magic are one of the top 5 teams in the league. They're no where near "bad".
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Jeffs
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:48 am    Post subject:

Dorray wrote:
EHL_2 wrote:
^ Magic are one of the top 5 teams in the league. They're no where near "bad".


Beat me to it. The Magic has one of the best road records in the NBA, and have beaten several very good teams this year.

Also...

Quote:
I think Bynum will have MUCH much greater post season success than Howard will.


Helps the Bynum has the best player in the league as a teammate, eh?

Listen... I've been very impressed with Bynum this year. He has far exceeded my expectations. However, Bynum isn't even in the same stratosphere as Howard right now. Howard is on another level.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:11 am    Post subject:

Jeffs wrote:
Dorray wrote:
EHL_2 wrote:
^ Magic are one of the top 5 teams in the league. They're no where near "bad".


Beat me to it. The Magic has one of the best road records in the NBA, and have beaten several very good teams this year.

Also...

Quote:
I think Bynum will have MUCH much greater post season success than Howard will.


Helps the Bynum has the best player in the league as a teammate, eh?

Listen... I've been very impressed with Bynum this year. He has far exceeded my expectations. However, Bynum isn't even in the same stratosphere as Howard right now. Howard is on another level.


The Magic do have an impressive road record, and perhaps that should be more of a testament to Van Gundy and Howard. Again though, they got off to a fast start last season and faded and eventually held on for a 8th seed and 1st round sweep out of the playoffs to Detroit.

But I believe their backcourt is one of the worst in the league. I mean Jameer Nelson and Keith Bogans? Any other team in the league that has a worse backcourt? And we of all people know what a tried and true playoff choker Turkeyglue is. (He was a large part of why we beat the Spurs in the .4 series) Shard is decent, but he's never shown that he can be a true go to player in the clutch. With the contract they gave him, they're not going to be able to pay anyone else to make up for the sub par backcourt they have.

Overall he's going the be questioned after collapses year after year and his star will fade.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:15 am    Post subject:

Murdock wrote:
He's putting up great numbers on a very bad team in a very weak conference.
For the last few years, the Western Conference has been much stronger than the Eastern Conference. That argument is much harder to make this year. In fact, the won-lost record between the two conferences is almost, but not quite, 50-50 (as percentages).
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bryandeezy
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:50 am    Post subject:

Honestly, I think Howard will be the best center for years to come, yeah one can argue Yao is better, but Howard will work on his post game and his shooting, and will surpass Yao as an overall better player. Howard will only get better, he has every season.

I think Bynum needs to develop a goto move. Most of the points bynum gets so far are often created by others such as lobs or assists, and many of his points come from putbacks. bynum needs to develop a better post game and maybe even a face up game
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ElginBaylor
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:29 am    Post subject:

bryandeezy wrote:
Honestly, I think Howard will be the best center for years to come, yeah one can argue Yao is better, but Howard will work on his post game and his shooting, and will surpass Yao as an overall better player. Howard will only get better, he has every season.

I think Bynum needs to develop a goto move. Most of the points bynum gets so far are often created by others such as lobs or assists, and many of his points come from putbacks. bynum needs to develop a better post game and maybe even a face up game


All in good time. You didn't see his sweet up and under the other night? And I still have that move that left Shaq in his socks burned into my memory. Just because he's one of those select few who are unstoppable when they get position with the ball in the paint, doesn't mean he won't be able post guys up as well.
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lakers2626
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:44 am    Post subject:

Murdock wrote:
Jeffs wrote:
Any reason for that bold prognostication?

Personally, I think Howard is unquestionably the best center in the league this year, and he is only going to get better.


He's putting up great numbers on a very bad team in a very weak conference.

I don't see the team he's on having much post season success.

Yao Ming has been the best center in the league for the last couple seasons at least.. and he too has had very little post season success.

Dirk Nowitzki has put up great regular season numbers for years.

The point being, I don't think he'll have much post season success. Naturally it remains to be seen, but I think his career path will be very similar to Shaq's in Orlando with several sweeps, collapses and frustration. He'll put up good numbers, not unlike Nowitzki or Ming but will ultimately be questioned as his team continues to collapse through the years.

I think Bynum will have MUCH much greater post season success than Howard will.


With that thought process you probably think KG is overrated.
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limchrc
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:44 am    Post subject:

Murdock wrote:
Quote:
1. dwight howard - 23.6/15.3/2.7, 38.7 minutes


overrated


Why overrated? He is quite impressive this season...
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lakerboy
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:07 am    Post subject:

if overrated means that he has nearly zero basketball skills, then i agree. physical wise he is a beast, basketball wise not so much.


1.2 of his total points are coming from jumpers, hookshots etc.
the rest are layups, dunks or tip ins.

but he is still young and can improve his offensive game
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:16 am    Post subject:

Dorray wrote:
^^ The other 3 average about 10 minutes more a game too. I think next year Bynum will be able to put up Kaman type numbers if given the playing time.


Sure will... This in fact is the last season that Jax will be able to treat Socks like a child anyway... Next year Socks will definitely be the starter.
Kwame better recognize....

Boom! Boom! Boom! Boom!

The sounds of "the mighty Socks" coming after Kwambo's job....
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:38 am    Post subject:

Murdock wrote:
Jeffs wrote:
Any reason for that bold prognostication?

Personally, I think Howard is unquestionably the best center in the league this year, and he is only going to get better.


He's putting up great numbers on a very bad team in a very weak conference.


So you're saying Chris Kaman is better? I mean Kaman can put up those numbers in the West, so are you arguing that the East is so bad that it would make a difference of 5+ points and 1+ rebound per game? Howard's particular skill set seems like it would be successful anywhere.

Quote:
I don't see the team he's on having much post season success.


This is an entirely different argument than whether Howard is the best center in the league. Great centers can typically keep a team in the hunt, but they require at least above average guard play to advance since they can't create their own shots.

Quote:
Yao Ming has been the best center in the league for the last couple seasons at least.. and he too has had very little post season success.


See above about guard play. Yao has the worst shooting PGs possibly in the league (38% career Alston, 42% career James). They also happen to both be not particularly adept at setting up other guys for shots. The other guard on Yao's team is also a poor shooter (e.g. Tmac), and also more inclined to take a shot than pass it into the post. So a great center cannot advance when he cannot get the ball in his hands and his teammates jack up and miss shots more often than they make them.

Quote:
Dirk Nowitzki has put up great regular season numbers for years.


I don't see how he figures in the discussion since he isn't a center.

Quote:
The point being, I don't think he'll have much post season success.


But again, this is a totally different argument than whether he is the best individual talent at the 5.

Quote:
Naturally it remains to be seen, but I think his career path will be very similar to Shaq's in Orlando with several sweeps, collapses and frustration.


Which is to say it'll be Hall of Fame quality. Not bad.

Quote:
He'll put up good numbers, not unlike Nowitzki or Ming but will ultimately be questioned as his team continues to collapse through the years.


There isn't much point in questioning. Shaq had a lot of success early in his career and simply lost out to more experienced teams. Then he went to another young inexperienced team in L.A. Then he had those abdominal problems that made him start missing big chunks of the season, and his teammates had to mature (e.g. Kobe), or go (e.g. NVE). Then he addressed his physical issues, got into top shape, and, not surprisingly, won 3 championships in a row. There is no way you can argue Shaq hasn't been very successful just about every season of his career until now.

Quote:
I think Bynum will have MUCH much greater post season success than Howard will.


That would be due to having better guards than Howard, not necessarily because Bynum is better. Again, though, totally different arguments.
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