Marion for Odom Talk -- PLEASE KEEP ALL MARION DISCUSSION HERE
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unleasHell
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:52 am    Post subject: Marion for Odom Talk -- PLEASE KEEP ALL MARION DISCUSSION HERE

is again a topic in Phoenix, oh and Cook was also mentioned..

I would do this even though Odom plays PF and Marion is a SF, but Marion has MUCH more market value!

source = hoopshype.com
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encina1
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:57 am    Post subject:

AZ Central

The actual source, which is actually just idle talk, is at this link above, which can be found at Hoops Hype.

EDIT: fixed the link
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Last edited by encina1 on Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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dvdrdiscs
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:57 am    Post subject:

probably a rehash of old rumors. i personally would do it IF we had a legit PG running the show. if we had landed jason kidd, marion would fit better. but as it stand, we need odom more so than marion.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:59 am    Post subject:

dvdrdiscs wrote:
probably a rehash of old rumors. i personally would do it IF we had a legit PG running the show. if we had landed jason kidd, marion would fit better. but as it stand, we need odom more so than marion.


Kwame and Bynum for Kidd?

Odom and Cook for Marion?

Mihm/?
Turiaf/
Marion/Vlad/Luke
Kobe/Evans/Sasha
Kidd/Farmar/Critt

Thin at C, and we'd get killed by Duncan more so than ever, but upgrades all around?

I am not advocating anything, just working off of dvdrdiscs' post.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:03 am    Post subject:

Oh, and here is the only quote linked to some sort of trade talk between the Suns and Lakers in that article:

Quote:
The two top trade possibilities involve Utah Jazz forward Andrei Kirilenko, who is even more disgruntled with his team, and Los Angeles Lakers forward Lamar Odom and a teammate, possibly forward Brian Cook.


From the same link I posted above.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:20 am    Post subject:

Andrei Kirilenko might be heading to NJ for RJ... (which if I was NJ, I would not do it) - Rumor of course...
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:21 am    Post subject:

LO and Cook for Marion would be a gift from the heavens for the Lakers.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:28 am    Post subject:

I love LO and he does take Marion's lunch money every time we play Phoenix, but I'd make that move at this point just to infuse change and new life into the team. I can't say I believe Marion would flourish in such a structured offense, but he's at least consistently aggressive, making this a shot worth taking.

I wouldn't qualify it as a "gift from the heavens" as VL does, simply because I don't consider Marion a superior player to LO, but sometimes you just need to inject a new fire to your team via a core change. Odom would be lethal for PHoenix and I sure as heck would hate to face them every year, but ...
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:33 am    Post subject:

Marion does not miss games like Lamar. They are comparable players, but Marion has proven to be a slightly better overall player than Lamar has (even though Lamar edges Marion in the h2h matchup).

I could see why this could be a good deal for us.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:34 am    Post subject:

I wouldn't hesitate. Despite the fact the LO outplays Marion head-to-head, Marion is an upgrade. He simply has a much better motor. Marion is someone who would kill for the second scorer role, unlike Lamar who merely accepts the second scorer role as a burden.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:35 am    Post subject:

LakerJam wrote:
I love LO and he does take Marion's lunch money every time we play Phoenix, but I'd make that move at this point just to infuse change and new life into the team. I can't say I believe Marion would flourish in such a structured offense, but he's at least consistently aggressive, making this a shot worth taking.

I wouldn't qualify it as a "gift from the heavens" as VL does, simply because I don't consider Marion a superior player to LO, but sometimes you just need to inject a new fire to your team via a core change. Odom would be lethal for PHoenix and I sure as heck would hate to face them every year, but ...


I like LO too... Marion is good... but is it the system they play or the player? I will say this, his D is far better than LOs... which would make the move an upgrade in my eyes.

On the flip side, LO could be the piece that pushes PHX over the top.... I thik he would flourish in PHX's system...
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DK
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:38 am    Post subject:

Not enough of an upgrade to justify his higher salary, esp. considering his desire for an extension.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:39 am    Post subject:

why do it ?

1. durability
2. defense
3. change - nothing to lose

why not ?

1. demand for an extention - why is that supposed to change if we get him ? and if we give it to him, we're taking a suicidal risk considering the kobe situation and the possible need for future cap flexiblity.

2. too much of marion's offense comes from playing with great point guards like nash and kidd, and the free flowing offense of the suns.

considering this guy is going to be our second option, i dont' like this at all.
right now, lakers have only 2 players who are effectively capable of creating their own offense. replace odom with marion and we're left with just one, and the burden and dependency on kobe only increases.

that's why ultimatly, i dont' like this move, and would only consider it if we have a deal in place to get an offensive minded forward - say gooden, etc.
- although i woudln't consider this a horrible move if it happend, just not a good one, unless it's followed up by another trade.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:44 am    Post subject:

I love Lamar Odom... but we dont need another ball handler, we have 3 pgs, we have Kobe, we have Luke Walton... thats plenty!
Shawn Marion and LO are pretty much a wash in versatility... it just that what do we need more of?
what are the two most things we want from that position?
More on the ball and help defense... Marion will provide!
More Scoring Aggressiveness? thats all Marion!
and maybe some new blood spices things up a little bit!
i'll take it!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:45 am    Post subject:

angrypuppy wrote:
I wouldn't hesitate. Despite the fact the LO outplays Marion head-to-head, Marion is an upgrade. He simply has a much better motor. Marion is someone who would kill for the second scorer role, unlike Lamar who merely accepts the second scorer role as a burden.


wow I'm agreeing with you.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:47 am    Post subject:

if marion didn't have a penchant for disappearing in the playoffs, i'd sign off on this deal.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:54 am    Post subject:

I would do it in a heartbeat. Matrix does not have as much talent as Odom but he plays his heart out every night...can't say the same for Odom. Plus if he opts out after next season we will have some 15 million in cap-space to sign a possible MAX or near MAX type player.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:57 am    Post subject:

LakerJam wrote:
I love LO and he does take Marion's lunch money every time we play Phoenix, but I'd make that move at this point just to infuse change and new life into the team. I can't say I believe Marion would flourish in such a structured offense, but he's at least consistently aggressive, making this a shot worth taking.

I wouldn't qualify it as a "gift from the heavens" as VL does, simply because I don't consider Marion a superior player to LO, but sometimes you just need to inject a new fire to your team via a core change. Odom would be lethal for PHoenix and I sure as heck would hate to face them every year, but ...


Should that happen make sure Marion plays the 3 then... Watching Odom go wild on him everytime we see Phoenix would be disturbing, especially in the Lakers conference knowing that LO would actually enjoy that trade, and look forward to playing the Lakers more than Van Exel used to...

Marion can be weird in the playoffs too... LO steps up.... NOt a move that is going to especially benefit the Lakers...

Truth is it would be a gift for the Suns. The only good thing for the Lakers would be getting rid of Cook...
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:04 am    Post subject:

Hmmm. . .

To be honest, I really am surprised at how many of you think this is a good deal for us. Maybe I just need my head examined, but I would not do this trade in a million years. Sure, dumping off Cook sounds pretty tasty. But I wouldn't even trade LO for Marion strait up.

Lets look at this for a moment. Marion is more athletic than Lamar, and less injury prone. He is a good cleanup type of player, and a better scorer.

Now on the other hand, do you honestly think if you traded for any Phoenix Sun, that they would put up the same kind of numbers here? Have you forgotten why they don't run any plays for him? I would cringe every time he shoots the ball. More than I do with MO. And lets not forget his higher than it sould be pricetag.

And what about Phoenix? Can you imagine how well LO and Cook would plug in to their system? Both have way better range. Sure, Cook can't play defense, but none of those guys (outside of Bell) can. And having another passer playing next to Nash would be nasty. If we did that trade, we might as well make a public statement saying "We are really pushing for Phoenix to win it all this season".

Now, if you will excuse me, I am going to crawl under my desk and assume the fetal position.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:08 am    Post subject:

TACH wrote:
I like LO too... Marion is good... but is it the system they play or the player? I will say this, his D is far better than LOs... which would make the move an upgrade in my eyes.


Marion was an ALL Star BEFORE Nash came.

He does not have LO's broad skillset, but the things that he does are done well.

Excellent rebounder
Excellent defender
Excellent finisher

Will get a LOT of hustle points (garbage baskets count on the scoreboard).

The big key for me is it would allow us to bring in a thug at PF, which is not difficult to find. If Turiaf proves incapable of playing big minutes, you can grab a Skinner/Sweetney-type. Shoot, maybe Kwame could finally figure it out the Tri PF after two full seasons.

But a tough/physical PF would do wonders for Bynum at C.

Fish/Crit/Farmar
Kobe/Evans/Sasha
Marion/Walton
Kwame/Turiaf/Skinner
Bynum/Mihm
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:10 am    Post subject:

THE_SHOES wrote:
LakerJam wrote:
I love LO and he does take Marion's lunch money every time we play Phoenix, but I'd make that move at this point just to infuse change and new life into the team. I can't say I believe Marion would flourish in such a structured offense, but he's at least consistently aggressive, making this a shot worth taking.

I wouldn't qualify it as a "gift from the heavens" as VL does, simply because I don't consider Marion a superior player to LO, but sometimes you just need to inject a new fire to your team via a core change. Odom would be lethal for PHoenix and I sure as heck would hate to face them every year, but ...


Should that happen make sure Marion plays the 3 then... Watching Odom go wild on him everytime we see Phoenix would be disturbing, especially in the Lakers conference knowing that LO would actually enjoy that trade, and look forward to playing the Lakers more than Van Exel used to...

Marion can be weird in the playoffs too... LO steps up.... NOt a move that is going to especially benefit the Lakers...

Truth is it would be a gift for the Suns. The only good thing for the Lakers would be getting rid of Cook...


I know, Shoes, but it wouldn't really harm this team since both guys really do produce the same. Fans here get too caught up in the extra 3-5 ppg Marion contributes, but they also ignore the easy buckets LO gets for his teammates. Still, this move could potentially reinvigorate this team and while Marion is a bit too self-important and egotistical, that fact also keeps him more intense. I think we need some of that.

It's never a bad thing to add a competitive energy to the team. I really love what LO brings, but if adding Marion infuses this team and doesn't cost us a young core player in Bynum, I'd go for it.

For the record, no way in hel I throw in Brian Cook. He would be abosolutely beastly for them in that system. They don't care about defense, so he wouldn't get pulled when he has major lapses on that side of the rock like he does here; and while Laker fans constantly bash the guy, he's actually near the top in production per minutes on the court for all Laker players. I know that sounds nuts, but it's actually true. Saw an article posted to that effect recently, though I can't remember where. Anyway, I'm not trying to give Phoenix TWO guys that would undoubtedly flourish there.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:13 am    Post subject:

kobesNBA wrote:
Hmmm. . .


Lets look at this for a moment. Marion is more athletic than Lamar, and less injury prone. He is a good cleanup type of player, and a better scorer.

Now on the other hand, do you honestly think if you traded for [b]any Phoenix Sun, that they would put up the same kind of numbers here? [/b]Have you forgotten why they don't run any plays for him? I would cringe every time he shoots the ball. More than I do with MO. And lets not forget his higher than it sould be pricetag.


Actually, yes as to Marion. He was a 20/10 caliber player before Nash and D'Antoni got to Phoenix, so again, YES, I do think he'd still produce.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:15 am    Post subject:

I think Lamar is a better fit for the Lakers and the triangle offense. I dont know if Marion would work well in the tri.

Can we turn around and trade Marion for JO ??
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:16 am    Post subject:

In 64 playoff games Marion is averaging 41 minutes, 46% FG (35% from 3 land), 11 boards, 17 points per game with 1.25 TOs (and he not the second scoring option on the team)

In 25 games, LO is averaging 40 minuntes, 47% from the field (25% from 3 land), 10 boards, 18 points, 3 Turnovers (while being the 2nd scoring option)

Not sure where this Marion disappears in the playoffs is coming from.

LO gets the edge on offense (as long as he goes to his left), Marion is a far better defender (imagine Kobe and Marion on D..... dayum, a brotha could dream)...
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:16 am    Post subject:

^Funny, the only way I could stomach that deal is if we threw in Cook... I want that guy off the team very badly, not Smush badly, but badly all the same.
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