Can we get this puppy published? Circulated on some blog or something? Because I have yet to see another writer call out the hypocrisy being shown by the likes of Hollinger and Dwyer - Dwyer who blatantly lied to make it look like he wasn't being a Kobe hater this year. In fact, has Dwyer responded to this yet? That makes him look like an idiot.
Wow, excellent post. Dare is say column. I don't want to be one of those Laker fans that says "don't worry about the awards, worry about the trophy" because I understand how many of Kobe's most ardent fans feel, me among them. It would be nice for Kobe to get the NBA's highest subjective honor, but listen to one telecast with Lebron James playing and it's obvious that the marketing machine that is the NBA has made their choice. I can live with that as I'm sure Kobe can. Is it fair? No. Does it stink? Yes. But I think back to last summer and remember that Kobe wanted out and the team was predicted to win 37 games by the same experts voting on this award. I think back to last summer and smile. Times are good, let's enjoy them, regardless of who is the teachers pet. _________________ The heroes of the past are untouchable, protected forever by the fortress door of time-unless some mysterious stranger magically turns up with a key.
The only question that I have is how much of an impact does the triangle system have on our players and their FG% increase. I have no doubt that Kobe has an effect on this but shouldn't some of the credit go to the system as well?
Joined: 03 Nov 2005 Posts: 28461 Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:11 am Post subject:
Cardom wrote:
Kobe had sex with a white woman in Colorado. Ever since then white referees and white sports writers have given Kobe nothing but grief. For him to win the MVP would truly be a triumph. Sorry to pull the race card out but it's been pretty blatant.
Stop it... seriously... JA Adande, Jason Whitlock (who is truly an (bleep)), and John Saunders are all black writers/TV analyst who have torched Kobe over his play and the Colorodo incident. And in turn, white writers like Sam Smith, Frank Isola, and Tony Kornheiser have said for years KB is the best in the game.
Look at the list below:
Quote:
List of Media Guys For Kobe 4 MVP
D. Aldridge (TNT), A. Aldridge (NBATV), K. Smith (TNT), C. Barkely (TNT), Marc Stein (ESPN), D. Thorpe (ESPN), C. Broussard (ESPN), Frank Isola (NBATV), R. Kamla (NBATV), Fred Carter (NBATV), S. A. Smith (ESPN), D. Dupree (SI.com), R. Miller (TNT), P. Forrester (SI), Ian Thompsen (SI), Marty Burns (SI), M. Brooks (NBA.com), M. Jackson (ABC), J. Rose (ESPN), B. Walton (ESPN), B. Plaschke (LA Times), Mark Kriegel (FOX), R. Mahorn (NBATV), J. Mashburn (ESPN), T. Legler (yup you read right, ESPN)
List of Media Guys For Lebron 4 MVP
J. Hollinger (ESPN), B. Simmons (ESPN), J.A. Adande (ESPN), K. Dwyer (Yahoo)
Now, by your assertion, one group should be white and one should be black.... I don't see that in the list above... Do you have any facts to back up your claim?
To the OP, great post... it's post like these that attracted me to LG! Thanks JC!! As usual your post are a joy to read, regardless if I agree or not,.. and in the case I agree with most of what you posted.
Last edited by TACH on Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:31 am; edited 3 times in total
Joined: 13 Jan 2006 Posts: 2197 Location: Temecula border of San Diego
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:12 am Post subject:
Cardom wrote:
Kobe had sex with a white woman in Colorado. Ever since then white referees and white sports writers have given Kobe nothing but grief. For him to win the MVP would truly be a triumph. Sorry to pull the race card out but it's been pretty blatant.
I second the motion. This is what I had been saying since day 1 and the poster had finally come to realization. Remember also other white race Lakers sympathizes with KB24 and does not condone the white refs and sport writers. If only this world would be free of bias but until "SIN" is still in this world racism and bias would not be resolved. Unless a person receive JESUS in their heart to be LORD and SAVIOR and repent from their sin. Sorry I have to add this but it's reality. God bless ya'll Laker fan. And....GO LAKERS!!!!!!! _________________ "Now it came to me, let the Mamba loose" - KB24 after the game winner Olympic gold interview.
"If you are a LAKER FAN, you are LAKERS FOR LIFE" - Doc Buss
Kelly Dwyer is a long time Kobe hater even before Colorado. I sent him emails and pointed it out to him. His response back then was he was big fan of the Triangle offense when the Bulls ran it and he just wanted Kobe to run it correctly. These guys are warped and don't want to admit it. _________________ Started posting on Lakersground when it was lakers/rivals.com since Aug.2000.
There is no doubt they are the two best in the world. It reminds me of Magic and Bird in a lot of ways. In terms of stats, Lebron leads in scoring by 2, rebounding by 2, assists by 2, and FG% by 2. Part of that is because the Cavs are not very good and Lebron has to do more to keep them that where they are. As for Kobe, he faced major adversity, partially of his own doing, to start the season. But his mental stregnth has allowed him to persevere as usual, and his confidence has rubbed off on the rest of the team. Kobe brings a never-say-die attitude to this team, which is evident. Unlike the first 3 title teams he won with, this is his team. These guys watch him and follow him and he gives them leadership and confidence. So, while Lebron may be as good as Kobe, his team is 9 games worse in the east, and the MVP has always been a combination of team success and individual success. Due to that, Kobe should win a reasonably close vote and win the award.
Kelly Dwyer is a long time Kobe hater even before Colorado. I sent him emails and pointed it out to him. His response back then was he was big fan of the Triangle offense when the Bulls ran it and he just wanted Kobe to run it correctly. These guys are warped and don't want to admit it.
Yes because Michael never broke the triangle offense once.
What an idiot.
It's people like him who will screw Kobe out of the MVP.
We need to call out these dopes like Dwyer and Hollinger and point out their "inconsistencies." These guys are doing everything in their power to not look biased, but ya know they are.
... I'm guessing that Peter Vecsey would rather chew nails than see Kobe win an MVP.
Yup. For most voters there is a baseline, of course, in that only the top 10 or 15 players are even considered. But beyond there are obviously no real standards. What they express as reasons or guidelines are just rationalizations. Hence the numerous open contradictions you and others have pointed out.
I'm sure that if we actually kidnapped one of these guys and made it clear we'd only release him when we got some rational explanation he'd finally fess up with something like "I just don't like that guy and I'll never vote for him even if his team goes 82-0 and he scores 100 points per game."
So one year its Lebron because he has to be great to keep his team a little over 500. Another year, Lebron - his team has such a great record. Another its Lebron - just look at his PER. etc, blah blah blah _________________ "Every time he got an offensive rebound, it was deflating," Hornets coach Monty Williams said ... "I thought Bynum decided the series. He was that good."
"...one of the most valuable players in the league…"– Phil Jackson about Ron Artest in 2005
Last edited by Prometheus8 on Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:47 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 13 Jan 2006 Posts: 2197 Location: Temecula border of San Diego
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:46 am Post subject:
And Lebronze just got spanked by Bulls last night, I wonder what the media would say now. _________________ "Now it came to me, let the Mamba loose" - KB24 after the game winner Olympic gold interview.
"If you are a LAKER FAN, you are LAKERS FOR LIFE" - Doc Buss
And Lebronze just got spanked by Bulls last night, I wonder what the media would say now.
One thing's for sure, they are not going to get on him for having only 1 assist like they got on Kobe on his 81 point night. Hahahahahaha. That still makes me laugh. Dude scored 81 to lead the team to a comeback victory and people were harping on his assists.
Joined: 23 Jul 2004 Posts: 12898 Location: Los Angeles
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:52 am Post subject:
This whole idea that Kobe used to be some kind of media darling is by and large a myth. They didn't like him even before Colorado and the Lakers breakup. But as a champion, it's hard to hate or justify hating on him. Once those things happened, they had an excuse to be openly hostile and they were.
You know how people really feel about you not when things are great, but when they're bad. Shaq got a free pass out of LA. He became the victim in the breakup of the Lakers. Even in his last days in Miami and now in Phoenix, they are going out of their way not to criticize him, not to blame him for anything. Why?? Cause they love the guy and from beginning to now have always given him the benefit of the doubt, right or wrong. On the flip side, Kobe got it ALL. All the blame, all the anger, all the hostility. It's easy to do when you didn't like the person to begin with. _________________ So glad we gave you your flowers while you were here, Kobe.
Joined: 23 Jul 2004 Posts: 12898 Location: Los Angeles
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:59 am Post subject:
pokoy wrote:
lakers1969 wrote:
And Lebronze just got spanked by Bulls last night, I wonder what the media would say now.
One thing's for sure, they are not going to get on him for having only 1 assist like they got on Kobe on his 81 point night. Hahahahahaha. That still makes me laugh. Dude scored 81 to lead the team to a comeback victory and people were harping on his assists.
And that is the definition of a media darling. Nobody gives a damn about how LeBron's teammates feel about him when he's in gunslinger mode like he was last night. Yet, everytime kobe goes into his we have to endure ragging of how he doesn't trust his teammates and he doesn't pass the ball and blah blah blah. Kobe's just trying a win a game, just like LeBron. But when you're a media darling, people don't go out their way to spotlight your flaws. _________________ So glad we gave you your flowers while you were here, Kobe.
The one thing I cracked up at was when they first interviewed Ben Wallace and the lady doing the interview said: "So how do you feel coming to a team with a great leader like Lebron?" Now, this piece you wrote today with Lebron's teammates all taking suicide dives makes me LMAO.
Oh, good job for exposing Hollinger as the hack he is.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144474 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:18 am Post subject:
There has been no double standard, the winner has consistently been from a team that won at least 50 games and finished with a top 3 seed in their conference. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
I agree. You said exactly what every Kobe fan has been trying to say for the last couple years and used relevant evidence to back up your claim. Also, you did not result to homerism by saying Kobe is better at everything. Anyway, this was extremely well done. Although, if you are going to send it to some media outlets (suggested by another poster), you should fix the spelling errors in the Laker players' shooting percentage paragraph. There are a lot of teh's.
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52657 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:19 am Post subject:
Look . .. I know that the MVP for Kobe is a hugely important thing for some people - apparently more more worthy of discussion than the Lakers themselves.
But seriously. Do we really need two or three NEW threads a day about Kobe and the MVP?
At this point, there is NOTHING to be said on the subject that hasn't been brought up, dissected, regurgitated and rehashed in the 50 other threads about it posted in the last few weeks. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144474 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:21 am Post subject:
And to top it off, there are endless threads lamenting how screwed Kobe is this season. Here's a MVP fact tha that might be interesting to some, they haven't awarded the MVP yet. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 55 Location: Retired in Mexico enjoying life and my Lakers
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:28 am Post subject:
Thanks for such a well thought out and well documented post. There might be some that are not interested in this kind of information which is fine but there are others of us who find this kind of intelligent dialogue very in tune with our own thoughts. If you don't like what a poster has to say, don't read it. But please stop telling the rest of us that we shouldn't be interested in someone elses perspective.
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:29 am Post subject: Re: The MVP Double Standard
J.C. Smith wrote:
Ilgauskus was an all-star before playing with Lebron. He has not shown any improvement. In fact the only career high he can boast since the arrival of Lebron is in blocked shots. What has been most confusing about Lebron's game though is that they have brought in a number of guys who have played absolutely terribly with him. One would have to wonder why Kevin Ollie saw his shooting percentage drop from 45.1% the season before playing with Lebron to 37% in the season playing alongside of him. He was only 31 years of age. Ricky Davis was traded mid-season in Lebron's rookie season. He responded by lifting his shooting percentage by 5.7% and his three point percentage by 2.6%. Eric Snow had averaged 12.1, 12.9 and 10.3 points in his three previous seasons, while shooting 44..2%, 45.2% and 41.3%. He joined Lebron at age 31 and plummeting to 4 points per game on 38.2% shooting, despite playing a 22.8 minutes per game.
The next season they made the moves that were supposed to move them into contention. They brought in Donyell Marshall, who had long been a deadly shooter. He had averaged 11.5 points on 41.6% from beyond the arc the season before, and had shot 40% or better from that range for the past two seasons and routinely averaged in the low teens. Yet in three seasons with the Cavs he never shot better than 35.1% from that range or averaged more than 9.3 points. Damon Jones was also brought in to space the floor. The 29 year old averaged 11.6 points on 43.2% shooting from beyond the arc and 45.6% from the field the season before in Miami. Those numebrs dropped to 37.7% shooting and 6.7 points playing under Lebron, however. The largest disappointment though was Larry Hughes. Hughes was an all-defensive player who was coming off a year in which he averaged 22 points on 43% shooting. He had averaged 18.8 points the season prior to that. Yet he never averaged more than 15.5 points or 40.9% shooting in three seasons with Lebron. He was recently traded to the Chicago Bulls and saw a 4.1 point and a 4% leap in his field goal percentage in the seven games since the trade. It's way too early too make any determination on the impact of his latest shooter, Wally Szczerbiak, but it should be noted that in the six games since joining the Cavs he has seen his fielg goal percentage plummet by 13.6% and his three point percentage drop by 4.9%.
First off, your entire post was excellent, but I wanted to point out this part, because I've been wondering the same thing all season. The Cavs have 5 players shooting career lows in fg%, and I find it hard to believe that its a coincidence that Wally immediately takes a 14% drop in his shooting right after joining the Cavs...
The only question that I have is how much of an impact does the triangle system have on our players and their FG% increase. I have no doubt that Kobe has an effect on this but shouldn't some of the credit go to the system as well?
Quite of those guys played listed (Mihm, Odom, Butler, Atkins, Jones, Profit) saw that increase under Rudy T's motion offense.
venturalakersfan wrote:
There has been no double standard, the winner has consistently been from a team that won at least 50 games and finished with a top 3 seed in their conference.
I agree that this has been the main criteria in every MVP award since Jordan won it in the late 80s. Players have come close but no player who was not a part of an elite team has won it since that season. However, if that is the case, then either Kobe, Garnett, Paul or Duncan have to win the award this season. Lebron's Cavs are a mediocre team in a weak conference, why is the race between he and Kobe in all of the polls? If those were the guidelines Lebron's name shouldn't even be in the discussion. The criteria changed for some voters, and I have a guess why.
[quote="Kobi-wan-kenobi"]The Cavs have 5 players shooting career lows in fg%, and I find it hard to believe that its a coincidence that Wally immediately takes a 14% drop in his shooting right after joining the Cavs...[/code]
It's definitely way too early to make any judgement on Wally, too small of a sampling as well. I just threw his stats in there as he's the most recent addition. Most of those numbers from players were from previous seasons. To be honest, I have absolutely no idea why players in general have had a drop in their shooting percentage when playing with Lebron. He draws so much attention that you would expect them to get wide open shots, shooters in particular. My guess has always been that he just gets the ball to guys in positions that they aren't comfortable in. Lebron is the most ball dominant player in the game right now, his usage is well above Wade's and Kobe is a distant third. When watching him play I don't see anything wrong with what he's doing, but with just about every new teammate that has joined him, they've suffered from a field goal percentage drop. Maybe it's the system, but whatever the case the argument that he has made his teammates better (which you hear quite often) is simply not justified. Which I guess is compounded when you see that Kobe has had a positive effect for the most part on his teammates shooting percentages, yet the knock on him has been that he hasn't made his teammates better.
Last edited by J.C. Smith on Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:45 am; edited 1 time in total
Can we get this puppy published? Circulated on some blog or something? .
It's really the type of writing whose best home is a place like LG, where a small number of Lakers/Kobe fans will think it's great. Unless you are already chomping at the bit to chime in that you agree Kobe has been screwed in MVP voting, you probably won't care and probably wouldn't read past the first couple of paragraphs.
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