Eminem? That guy is garbage. Pure marketing machine.
Are you just trying to get attention? Eminem is a Top 10 rapper of all time IMO. If he was black it probably wouldnt even be up for debate.
Best living rapper? Early Jay-Z. Runner ups Rakim, Phonte, Nas, Mos Def, Andre 3K. And look out for Saigon...
If Eminem were black, he wouldn't be a household name or half as popular...
True. In all reality, Eminem is just a depressed, self-hating and more aggressive version of Al Yankovic.
At the time of Eminem's rise, Dre realized that there was no way to ever conquer that cheesy boy-band freight train unless he molds one of which has the boy band looks and have him infiltrate that rap-unchartered fanbase.
Dre WON. Dre is a brilliant mogul. Eminem = tool.
Dre thought of this idea one night and was like "Cha-ching!"
And oh, anyone who considers Eminem Top 10 of ALL TIME knows nothing about rap.
Off the top of my head, these guys are better than marketing-hype boy:
RasKass
Rakim
Nas
Mos
KRS
Big
Pac
Talib
Common
E
Ty Shaw
Pimp-C
Kurupt
etc.
even Snoop(Yes, Snoop before he became the black, male, hood-version of Paris Hilton, as far as being a media whore goes) _________________ =======================
"The mafia appeal to your intellect - 'You're an intelligent person aren't you? And you realize it's very difficult to walk without knees?'" - Richard Pryor
Last edited by SirRunnethOfSoCal on Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:10 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 24 Jun 2003 Posts: 3006 Location: Arcadia, CA
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:03 am Post subject:
PRODIGYBKOBE wrote:
i cant believe noones mentioned lil weezy
Some people would argue he's the worst living rapper alive. If people put him in that breath, i don't think he'll be mentioned too confidently.
Personally, I'm not sold, maybe because his hits are so whack, and his collabs with birdman were really pathetic. I'm not gonna discount him as a bad rapper, but I'm just not sold. _________________ In regards to a certain fan wanting to cut his wrists:
Orestes: "Guess that's one way to find out if you really bleed purple & gold."
MethodMan
GZA
Raekwon
Ghostface
Jadakiss
Ox
Sage
Aesop
etc.
People feel free to add more.
Believe it or not, Eminem and Nelly are more alike than they are apart. They SELL. Yes. But skillswise, both are extremely overrated beyond human comprehension. But at least Nelly has flavor and does what he does in style. I think in 10-15 years, Eminem will be on the same boat as Ice. LMAO. Wouldn't surprise me one bit. _________________ =======================
"The mafia appeal to your intellect - 'You're an intelligent person aren't you? And you realize it's very difficult to walk without knees?'" - Richard Pryor
Joined: 03 Nov 2005 Posts: 28461 Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:58 am Post subject:
SirRunnethOfSoCal wrote:
TACH wrote:
Caron1 wrote:
SirRunnethOfSoCal wrote:
Eminem? That guy is garbage. Pure marketing machine.
Are you just trying to get attention? Eminem is a Top 10 rapper of all time IMO. If he was black it probably wouldnt even be up for debate.
Best living rapper? Early Jay-Z. Runner ups Rakim, Phonte, Nas, Mos Def, Andre 3K. And look out for Saigon...
If Eminem were black, he wouldn't be a household name or half as popular...
True. In all reality, Eminem is just a depressed, self-hating and more aggressive version of Al Yankovic.
At the time of Eminem's rise, Dre realized that there was no way to ever conquer that cheesy boy-band freight train unless he molds one of which has the boy band looks and have him infiltrate that rap-unchartered fanbase.
Dre WON. Dre is a brilliant mogul. Eminem = tool.
Dre thought of this idea one night and was like "Cha-ching!"
And oh, anyone who considers Eminem Top 10 of ALL TIME knows nothing about rap.
I don't know about all of that... Eminem is a very skilled MC, that can not be denied. Top Ten, maybe, maybe not, depending on your taste, but comparing him to Weird Al is way way off base.
Ras Kass - has he ever had a classic album? maybe. To many similes and metaphores just to say them.
Rakim- can his lyrics/flow stand the test of time until now? probably not. but close. he was a good 7 or 8 years ahead of his time.
Common- raps with a purpose, poetic. one issue is that sometimes his delivery is more poetry then it is actually rapping. its talk rapping.
Talib Kweli - like common, raps with a purpose. light voice isn't the greatest. but he holds his own.
Mos Def - like common, raps with a purpose. Mos Def doesn't have a classic solo album. his best performance came with talib as blackstar. which is why we are still waiting for these jokers to get back together(WHATS THE HOLD UP?).
Nas - Classic Albums, great lyrics, raps with a purpose, great voice. where's the problem? no problem really, perhaps that he doesn't rap much differently then he did when he first started. but we've heard songs where he used different styles. so its not like he can't, he just doesn't for the most part.
So Nas wins in this group.
Noone ever said anything about albums, so the Ras Kass argument is out because that guy can make some very creative rhymes, and to say Black on Both Sides by Mos Def isn't classic, is silly.
I had the album and I'm telling you IT AINT A CLASSIC. i liked it. it may be a personal hit. but it was by no means a classic. it was more hype then actual substance. why? because of the blackstar album.
put it this way. if it was so great, why is it that we keep asking for a collabo blackstar album vs another might mos album? Think about that for a moment. its one thing if a guy goes off and makes 8 albums and 3 of them are classics and you just wish he would get together with his old partner/group. that wasn't the case when Black on Both sides came out. I'm sorry i gotta keep it real though. i was stuck on the idea, got excited, picked up the album, listened to it thru Blackstar headphones, not just a listener headphones. then came to a conclusion that the album was great. then i went back to it at a later date and listened again. and realized i had over exaggerated its greatness. it was a solid album, but not a classic.
Oh and the reason i mentioned albums is because you can't be considered the "BEST LIVING RAPPER" without talking about a rappers albums. if you do that, i can name some unknown guy from around the corner. You would have no proof that he wasn't the best thing going. So since we dont want to open that door for any and everyone in the world who can spit a 16. lets make sure we have some set of criteria.
you can't be named the BEST without at least ONE classic. i did not go to record sales. i did not say Platinum or gold albums. there are some albums which are hood classics. by artist from your area. there are albums that are city/regional classics(west coast, east coast, south, midwest, etc.). then there are those that are bonafide classics to everyone from any region. I'm saying as much i liked Rass. I can't with a straight face say he had any classics. mayyybeee Soul on ice. but then again it might be rassassination (had by far the better production, which has nothing to do with rass' rapping))
Black on Both Sides is without a doubt a classic hip hop album, but then again you think Rakim can't stand the test of time. We just hear things differently....
With that said, time to get my hip hop on... Subsoniq is about to start:
Quote:
This week we return to a pure music show due to a huge onslaught of specials hitting the satellites in the coming weeks (Buckshot, 88 Keys, DJ Spinna Sub-session). The show is full with new music including songs from Skillz, Immortal Technique, Wale, Rza, Raekwon, Styles of Beyond, Elzhi, J-Live, Invincible, Pharoahe Monch and many more. Also look out for an exclusive/world premier leak of a new Panacea track from their forthcoming album due out later this year! All this along with some older gems we re-visited, its Subsonq this week on 66 RAW.
Ra can't stand the test of time STILL. now lets say when that truth hurts remix came out. well he still held his own. when The watcher dropped. he still held his own. But as the years past by. he could no longer stand the test of time. Like i said, he was ahead of his time about 8 years ahead. so we've caught up to ra and surpassed him. similar to LL. the guy could rap with any generation successfully. can he do it now? ehhhhh, not really. and no i'm not comparing him to the hot garbage thats supposedly hot right now.
alright. i went back one more time. and maybe yall are right. maybe it was a classic. but its hard to tell nowadays cause anything pre-2002 is a classic in comparison to this commercially released garbaggio thats out now.
HipHop(classic joint)
Ms. Fat Booty(classic joint)
DO It Now (classic joint )
Mr N*** (classic joint)
then "mathematics" is a personal favorite. now Umi Says isn't hiphop, but i like that kind of zone out fusion jazz whateva you want to call it music.
I concede. black on both sides was and still is a classic.
Last edited by postandpivot on Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:04 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 5463 Location: Long Beach
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:50 am Post subject:
postandpivot wrote:
Ra can't stand the test of time STILL. now lets say when that truth hurts remix came out. well he still held his own. when The watcher dropped. he still held his own. But as the years past by. he could no longer stand the test of time. Like i said, he was ahead of his time about 8 years ahead. so we've caught up to ra and surpassed him. similar to LL. the guy could rap with any generation successfully. can he do it now? ehhhhh, not really. and no i'm not comparing him to the hot garbage thats supposedly hot right now.
Ra can't stand the test of time STILL. now lets say when that truth hurts remix came out. well he still held his own. when The watcher dropped. he still held his own. But as the years past by. he could no longer stand the test of time. Like i said, he was ahead of his time about 8 years ahead. so we've caught up to ra and surpassed him. similar to LL. the guy could rap with any generation successfully. can he do it now? ehhhhh, not really. and no i'm not comparing him to the hot garbage thats supposedly hot right now.
Black on Both sides was not a classic.
What albums are classic to you then?
^^i fixed it. go back up and read my edited post. Black on Both sides is/was a classic. But see thats how good stuff was back then. Black on Both sides could fall thru the cracks as a solid album and nothing more. I had to take each classic song out seperately then without my own personal bias towards hiphop music with a message. and come up with is it or is it not a classic
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 5463 Location: Long Beach
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:15 am Post subject:
postandpivot wrote:
rchanou wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
Ra can't stand the test of time STILL. now lets say when that truth hurts remix came out. well he still held his own. when The watcher dropped. he still held his own. But as the years past by. he could no longer stand the test of time. Like i said, he was ahead of his time about 8 years ahead. so we've caught up to ra and surpassed him. similar to LL. the guy could rap with any generation successfully. can he do it now? ehhhhh, not really. and no i'm not comparing him to the hot garbage thats supposedly hot right now.
Black on Both sides was not a classic.
What albums are classic to you then?
^^i fixed it. go back up and read my edited post. Black on Both sides is/was a classic. But see thats how good stuff was back then. Black on Both sides could fall thru the cracks as a solid album and nothing more. I had to take each classic song out seperately then without my own personal bias towards hiphop music with a message. and come up with is it or is it not a classic
Cool.
You really can't label an album classic until like five years after its release.
Joined: 03 Nov 2005 Posts: 28461 Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:18 am Post subject:
postandpivot wrote:
TACH wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
LABigBoi wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
Ras Kass - has he ever had a classic album? maybe. To many similes and metaphores just to say them.
Rakim- can his lyrics/flow stand the test of time until now? probably not. but close. he was a good 7 or 8 years ahead of his time.
Common- raps with a purpose, poetic. one issue is that sometimes his delivery is more poetry then it is actually rapping. its talk rapping.
Talib Kweli - like common, raps with a purpose. light voice isn't the greatest. but he holds his own.
Mos Def - like common, raps with a purpose. Mos Def doesn't have a classic solo album. his best performance came with talib as blackstar. which is why we are still waiting for these jokers to get back together(WHATS THE HOLD UP?).
Nas - Classic Albums, great lyrics, raps with a purpose, great voice. where's the problem? no problem really, perhaps that he doesn't rap much differently then he did when he first started. but we've heard songs where he used different styles. so its not like he can't, he just doesn't for the most part.
So Nas wins in this group.
Noone ever said anything about albums, so the Ras Kass argument is out because that guy can make some very creative rhymes, and to say Black on Both Sides by Mos Def isn't classic, is silly.
I had the album and I'm telling you IT AINT A CLASSIC. i liked it. it may be a personal hit. but it was by no means a classic. it was more hype then actual substance. why? because of the blackstar album.
put it this way. if it was so great, why is it that we keep asking for a collabo blackstar album vs another might mos album? Think about that for a moment. its one thing if a guy goes off and makes 8 albums and 3 of them are classics and you just wish he would get together with his old partner/group. that wasn't the case when Black on Both sides came out. I'm sorry i gotta keep it real though. i was stuck on the idea, got excited, picked up the album, listened to it thru Blackstar headphones, not just a listener headphones. then came to a conclusion that the album was great. then i went back to it at a later date and listened again. and realized i had over exaggerated its greatness. it was a solid album, but not a classic.
Oh and the reason i mentioned albums is because you can't be considered the "BEST LIVING RAPPER" without talking about a rappers albums. if you do that, i can name some unknown guy from around the corner. You would have no proof that he wasn't the best thing going. So since we dont want to open that door for any and everyone in the world who can spit a 16. lets make sure we have some set of criteria.
you can't be named the BEST without at least ONE classic. i did not go to record sales. i did not say Platinum or gold albums. there are some albums which are hood classics. by artist from your area. there are albums that are city/regional classics(west coast, east coast, south, midwest, etc.). then there are those that are bonafide classics to everyone from any region. I'm saying as much i liked Rass. I can't with a straight face say he had any classics. mayyybeee Soul on ice. but then again it might be rassassination (had by far the better production, which has nothing to do with rass' rapping))
Black on Both Sides is without a doubt a classic hip hop album, but then again you think Rakim can't stand the test of time. We just hear things differently....
With that said, time to get my hip hop on... Subsoniq is about to start:
Quote:
This week we return to a pure music show due to a huge onslaught of specials hitting the satellites in the coming weeks (Buckshot, 88 Keys, DJ Spinna Sub-session). The show is full with new music including songs from Skillz, Immortal Technique, Wale, Rza, Raekwon, Styles of Beyond, Elzhi, J-Live, Invincible, Pharoahe Monch and many more. Also look out for an exclusive/world premier leak of a new Panacea track from their forthcoming album due out later this year! All this along with some older gems we re-visited, its Subsonq this week on 66 RAW.
Ra can't stand the test of time STILL. now lets say when that truth hurts remix came out. well he still held his own. when The watcher dropped. he still held his own. But as the years past by. he could no longer stand the test of time. Like i said, he was ahead of his time about 8 years ahead. so we've caught up to ra and surpassed him. similar to LL. the guy could rap with any generation successfully. can he do it now? ehhhhh, not really. and no i'm not comparing him to the hot garbage thats supposedly hot right now.
alright. i went back one more time. and maybe yall are right. maybe it was a classic. but its hard to tell nowadays cause anything pre-2002 is a classic in comparison to this commercially released garbaggio thats out now.
HipHop(classic joint)
Ms. Fat Booty(classic joint)
DO It Now (classic joint )
Mr N*** (classic joint)
then "mathematics" is a personal favorite. now Umi Says isn't hiphop, but i like that kind of zone out fusion jazz whateva you want to call it music.
I concede. black on both sides was and still is a classic.
Thank you for editing your post in regards to Black on Both Sides (and coming to your senses )...
As for Rakim, let's see what his peers say about him and what he has brought to the table:
Quote:
Many hip hop/rap artists (both underground and mainstream) acknowledge a huge debt to Rakim's innovative style. He is given credit for popularizing the heavy use of internal rhymes in hip-hop - rhymes that are not necessary to the overall rhyme scheme of the verse, but occur between the endpoints of lines and stanzas, serving to increase the alliteration, assonance, and emphasis of the rap. He is also credited for the jazzy, heavily stylistic, seemingly effortless delivery of his lyrical content.
One of his more prominent fans is Nas, who dedicated a song to Rakim, "U.B.R. (Unauthorized Biography of Rakim)", on his album, Street's Disciple. Raekwon of the Wu-Tang Clan also dedicated a tribute to Rakim entitled "Rakim Tribute" which was released on the DaVinci Code: The Vatican Mixtape Vol. II in 2006. 50 Cent also makes reference to Rakim on his hugely successful collaborative effort "Hate It Or Love It" with The Game. 50 rhymes "Daddy ain't around, probably out committing felonies / my favorite rapper used to sing Ch-Check out my melody", referencing Eric B. & Rakim's classic hit "My Melody". Kurupt references Rakim on Snoop Dogg's debut album, Doggystyle. On "For All My (bleep) And (bleep)", Kurupt says "Who's jokin? Rakim never joked, so why should I loc? now that's my idol..." Tupac Shakur also pays tribute to Rakim in a song called "Old School". Jay-z paid tribute to Rakim in his 2007 hit Blue Magic where he states: "87 state of mind that I'm in/I'm in my prime so for that time I'm Rakim." Eminem has also paid tribute to Rakim's style as an inspiration. Ghostface Killah gave props to Rakim in the end of "Paisely Darts", by saying he is better than every artist except for Rakim, "Rakim's the only god." In the song 'fixed' by Dan Le Sac Vs Scroobius Pip the courus includes the lines 'Hip hop is art. dont make a (bleep) pop hit, be smart,take it back to the start, like KRS and rakim use passion and heart' in reference to his key role in hip-hop.
Prior to Rakim, rap music lyricism was usually rather simple from a structural standpoint and the ideas it expressed were easy and direct.
“ Biting it I make you choke, you can't provoke//
You cant cope, you should've broke cause I aint no joke//
”
Rakim pioneered a practice previously unknown to rap called "internal rhyming," already an important aspect of traditional poetry, where rhymes could be found through out the bar of a lyric which added to the rhythmic complexity of the song:
“ I keep the mic at Fahrenheit, freeze MCs, make 'em colder/The listeners system is kicking like solar/As I memorize, advertize like a poet/Keep it goin', when I'm flowin' smooth enough, you know it's rough ”
Instead of two rhyming syllables within two lines, at the end of the lines, as we would find in the older rap style displayed above, we have 18 rhyming syllables in just four lines. Rakim also introduced a lyrical technique known as "cliffhanging" and popularized the use of metaphors with multiple meanings. His songs were the first to really impart rap music lyrics with a serious poetic device sensibility. Eric B & Rakim went on to produce three more successful albums, all now considered hip hop standards.
And some of those artist are considred Top 5 rappers of all time, and are mentioned in this very thread.
You are very off base when you say Rakim can't stand the test of time. But then again, you have Jodeci as the standard of R&B since they came out in the early 90's, right? We hear music differently, and there is nothing wrong with that... we'll just have to agree to disagree about Rakim's place in hip hop history...
Eminem? That guy is garbage. Pure marketing machine.
Are you just trying to get attention? Eminem is a Top 10 rapper of all time IMO. If he was black it probably wouldnt even be up for debate.
Best living rapper? Early Jay-Z. Runner ups Rakim, Phonte, Nas, Mos Def, Andre 3K. And look out for Saigon...
If Eminem were black, he wouldn't be a household name or half as popular...
True. In all reality, Eminem is just a depressed, self-hating and more aggressive version of Al Yankovic.
At the time of Eminem's rise, Dre realized that there was no way to ever conquer that cheesy boy-band freight train unless he molds one of which has the boy band looks and have him infiltrate that rap-unchartered fanbase.
Dre WON. Dre is a brilliant mogul. Eminem = tool.
Dre thought of this idea one night and was like "Cha-ching!"
And oh, anyone who considers Eminem Top 10 of ALL TIME knows nothing about rap.
Off the top of my head, these guys are better than marketing-hype boy:
RasKass
Rakim
Nas
Mos
KRS
Big
Pac
Talib
Common
E
Ty Shaw
Pimp-C
Kurupt
etc.
even Snoop(Yes, Snoop before he became the black, male, hood-version of Paris Hilton, as far as being a media whore goes)
This is ridiculous. Someone insisting Pimp C is a better rapper than Eminem is now telling people they dont know hip hop? Give me a break dude, Eminem is nothing like Weird Al.
For intents and purposes of this post I am referring to early Eminem - his first two albums. Sure Dre had a great idea by signing him but Eminem brought something to hip hop that had never been done. Some of the craziest bars I've ever heard (and I've been listening to hip hop for 20 years, so save the inevitable "I know more than you" rant) and did something completely fresh and unheard of. Nobody has come close to his stage presence, flow, wordplay, etc recently. Millions of people connected with what he had to say, and it wasnt just suburban white kids.
Are you forgetting the fact that he's murdered legends like Jay-Z on their own songs? Answer me this - Eminem on stage battling some rappers on your top 10 list ala Kurupt, who do you think the crowd responds to?
You obviously have some issues with Eminem, which is fine, but dont come off telling people they dont know anything about hip hop because they consider him a Top 10 rapper. There is a great case to be made for it, regardless of whether or not you agree. _________________ 2009 NBA CHAMPIONS!!!
Last edited by Caron1 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:29 am; edited 1 time in total
Ras Kass - has he ever had a classic album? maybe. To many similes and metaphores just to say them.
Rakim- can his lyrics/flow stand the test of time until now? probably not. but close. he was a good 7 or 8 years ahead of his time.
Common- raps with a purpose, poetic. one issue is that sometimes his delivery is more poetry then it is actually rapping. its talk rapping.
Talib Kweli - like common, raps with a purpose. light voice isn't the greatest. but he holds his own.
Mos Def - like common, raps with a purpose. Mos Def doesn't have a classic solo album. his best performance came with talib as blackstar. which is why we are still waiting for these jokers to get back together(WHATS THE HOLD UP?).
Nas - Classic Albums, great lyrics, raps with a purpose, great voice. where's the problem? no problem really, perhaps that he doesn't rap much differently then he did when he first started. but we've heard songs where he used different styles. so its not like he can't, he just doesn't for the most part.
So Nas wins in this group.
Noone ever said anything about albums, so the Ras Kass argument is out because that guy can make some very creative rhymes, and to say Black on Both Sides by Mos Def isn't classic, is silly.
I had the album and I'm telling you IT AINT A CLASSIC. i liked it. it may be a personal hit. but it was by no means a classic. it was more hype then actual substance. why? because of the blackstar album.
put it this way. if it was so great, why is it that we keep asking for a collabo blackstar album vs another might mos album? Think about that for a moment. its one thing if a guy goes off and makes 8 albums and 3 of them are classics and you just wish he would get together with his old partner/group. that wasn't the case when Black on Both sides came out. I'm sorry i gotta keep it real though. i was stuck on the idea, got excited, picked up the album, listened to it thru Blackstar headphones, not just a listener headphones. then came to a conclusion that the album was great. then i went back to it at a later date and listened again. and realized i had over exaggerated its greatness. it was a solid album, but not a classic.
Oh and the reason i mentioned albums is because you can't be considered the "BEST LIVING RAPPER" without talking about a rappers albums. if you do that, i can name some unknown guy from around the corner. You would have no proof that he wasn't the best thing going. So since we dont want to open that door for any and everyone in the world who can spit a 16. lets make sure we have some set of criteria.
you can't be named the BEST without at least ONE classic. i did not go to record sales. i did not say Platinum or gold albums. there are some albums which are hood classics. by artist from your area. there are albums that are city/regional classics(west coast, east coast, south, midwest, etc.). then there are those that are bonafide classics to everyone from any region. I'm saying as much i liked Rass. I can't with a straight face say he had any classics. mayyybeee Soul on ice. but then again it might be rassassination (had by far the better production, which has nothing to do with rass' rapping))
Black on Both Sides is without a doubt a classic hip hop album, but then again you think Rakim can't stand the test of time. We just hear things differently....
With that said, time to get my hip hop on... Subsoniq is about to start:
Quote:
This week we return to a pure music show due to a huge onslaught of specials hitting the satellites in the coming weeks (Buckshot, 88 Keys, DJ Spinna Sub-session). The show is full with new music including songs from Skillz, Immortal Technique, Wale, Rza, Raekwon, Styles of Beyond, Elzhi, J-Live, Invincible, Pharoahe Monch and many more. Also look out for an exclusive/world premier leak of a new Panacea track from their forthcoming album due out later this year! All this along with some older gems we re-visited, its Subsonq this week on 66 RAW.
Ra can't stand the test of time STILL. now lets say when that truth hurts remix came out. well he still held his own. when The watcher dropped. he still held his own. But as the years past by. he could no longer stand the test of time. Like i said, he was ahead of his time about 8 years ahead. so we've caught up to ra and surpassed him. similar to LL. the guy could rap with any generation successfully. can he do it now? ehhhhh, not really. and no i'm not comparing him to the hot garbage thats supposedly hot right now.
alright. i went back one more time. and maybe yall are right. maybe it was a classic. but its hard to tell nowadays cause anything pre-2002 is a classic in comparison to this commercially released garbaggio thats out now.
HipHop(classic joint)
Ms. Fat Booty(classic joint)
DO It Now (classic joint )
Mr N*** (classic joint)
then "mathematics" is a personal favorite. now Umi Says isn't hiphop, but i like that kind of zone out fusion jazz whateva you want to call it music.
I concede. black on both sides was and still is a classic.
Thank you for editing your post in regards to Black on Both Sides (and coming to your senses )...
As for Rakim, let's see what his peers say about him and what he has brought to the table:
Quote:
Many hip hop/rap artists (both underground and mainstream) acknowledge a huge debt to Rakim's innovative style. He is given credit for popularizing the heavy use of internal rhymes in hip-hop - rhymes that are not necessary to the overall rhyme scheme of the verse, but occur between the endpoints of lines and stanzas, serving to increase the alliteration, assonance, and emphasis of the rap. He is also credited for the jazzy, heavily stylistic, seemingly effortless delivery of his lyrical content.
One of his more prominent fans is Nas, who dedicated a song to Rakim, "U.B.R. (Unauthorized Biography of Rakim)", on his album, Street's Disciple. Raekwon of the Wu-Tang Clan also dedicated a tribute to Rakim entitled "Rakim Tribute" which was released on the DaVinci Code: The Vatican Mixtape Vol. II in 2006. 50 Cent also makes reference to Rakim on his hugely successful collaborative effort "Hate It Or Love It" with The Game. 50 rhymes "Daddy ain't around, probably out committing felonies / my favorite rapper used to sing Ch-Check out my melody", referencing Eric B. & Rakim's classic hit "My Melody". Kurupt references Rakim on Snoop Dogg's debut album, Doggystyle. On "For All My (bleep) And (bleep)", Kurupt says "Who's jokin? Rakim never joked, so why should I loc? now that's my idol..." Tupac Shakur also pays tribute to Rakim in a song called "Old School". Jay-z paid tribute to Rakim in his 2007 hit Blue Magic where he states: "87 state of mind that I'm in/I'm in my prime so for that time I'm Rakim." Eminem has also paid tribute to Rakim's style as an inspiration. Ghostface Killah gave props to Rakim in the end of "Paisely Darts", by saying he is better than every artist except for Rakim, "Rakim's the only god." In the song 'fixed' by Dan Le Sac Vs Scroobius Pip the courus includes the lines 'Hip hop is art. dont make a (bleep) pop hit, be smart,take it back to the start, like KRS and rakim use passion and heart' in reference to his key role in hip-hop.
Prior to Rakim, rap music lyricism was usually rather simple from a structural standpoint and the ideas it expressed were easy and direct.
“ Biting it I make you choke, you can't provoke//
You cant cope, you should've broke cause I aint no joke//
”
Rakim pioneered a practice previously unknown to rap called "internal rhyming," already an important aspect of traditional poetry, where rhymes could be found through out the bar of a lyric which added to the rhythmic complexity of the song:
“ I keep the mic at Fahrenheit, freeze MCs, make 'em colder/The listeners system is kicking like solar/As I memorize, advertize like a poet/Keep it goin', when I'm flowin' smooth enough, you know it's rough ”
Instead of two rhyming syllables within two lines, at the end of the lines, as we would find in the older rap style displayed above, we have 18 rhyming syllables in just four lines. Rakim also introduced a lyrical technique known as "cliffhanging" and popularized the use of metaphors with multiple meanings. His songs were the first to really impart rap music lyrics with a serious poetic device sensibility. Eric B & Rakim went on to produce three more successful albums, all now considered hip hop standards.
And some of those artist are considred Top 5 rappers of all time, and are mentioned in this very thread.
You are very off base when you say Rakim can't stand the test of time. But then again, you have Jodeci as the standard of R&B since they came out in the early 90's, right? We hear music differently, and there is nothing wrong with that... we'll just have to agree to disagree about Rakim's place in hip hop history...
I could careless about what his peers say about him. they learned from him. they owe him their lives darn near (LOL). if it wasn't for Ra they would not be rapping today or not rapping like they are. like i stated. Ra was 8 years or so ahead of his time with his lyrics and rhyme scheme to an extent. people did not rap like that back then. but i would also say Kool G rap was ahead of his time as well. no one really talks about him. the only guy who gave him consistent props was Big Pun. thats because pun tried to emulate G rap and did a darn good job of it. and since i named him. Kool G rap is a guy that came up in the 80's, that can still hang today. but most people wont even mention him.
Eminem? That guy is garbage. Pure marketing machine.
Are you just trying to get attention? Eminem is a Top 10 rapper of all time IMO. If he was black it probably wouldnt even be up for debate.
Best living rapper? Early Jay-Z. Runner ups Rakim, Phonte, Nas, Mos Def, Andre 3K. And look out for Saigon...
If Eminem were black, he wouldn't be a household name or half as popular...
True. In all reality, Eminem is just a depressed, self-hating and more aggressive version of Al Yankovic.
At the time of Eminem's rise, Dre realized that there was no way to ever conquer that cheesy boy-band freight train unless he molds one of which has the boy band looks and have him infiltrate that rap-unchartered fanbase.
Dre WON. Dre is a brilliant mogul. Eminem = tool.
Dre thought of this idea one night and was like "Cha-ching!"
And oh, anyone who considers Eminem Top 10 of ALL TIME knows nothing about rap.
Off the top of my head, these guys are better than marketing-hype boy:
RasKass
Rakim
Nas
Mos
KRS
Big
Pac
Talib
Common
E
Ty Shaw
Pimp-C
Kurupt
etc.
even Snoop(Yes, Snoop before he became the black, male, hood-version of Paris Hilton, as far as being a media whore goes)
This is ridiculous. Someone insisting Pimp C is a better rapper than Eminem is now telling people they dont know hip hop? Give me a break dude, Eminem is nothing like Weird Al.
For intents and purposes of this post I am referring to early Eminem - his first two albums. Sure Dre had a great idea by signing him but Eminem brought something to hip hop that had never been done. Some of the craziest bars I've ever heard (and I've been listening to hip hop for 20 years, so save the inevitable "I know more than you" rant) and did something completely fresh and unheard of. Nobody has come close to his stage presence, flow, wordplay, etc recently. Millions of people connected with what he had to say, and it wasnt just suburban white kids.
Are you forgetting the fact that he's murdered legends like Jay-Z and Rakim on their own songs? Answer me this - Eminem on stage battling some rappers on your top 10 list ala Kurupt, who do you think the crowd responds to?
You obviously have some issues with Eminem, which is fine, but dont come off telling people they dont know anything about hip hop because they consider him a Top 10 rapper. There is a great case to be made for it, regardless of whether or not you agree.
i think Em is the truth in his own right. But lets see if he makes the top 10 dead or alive list.
this is in no special order.
1.KRS
2. Rakim
3.Ice Cube
4. LL Cool J
5. pac
6. Biggie
7. Big L
8. Andre 3000
9. Nas
10. Jay Z
Honorable mentions: Em. Big Pun, Method man, Redman, Common, Kool G rap, Scarface
If i take out Big L, Biggie, and Pun for not having enough material before they died. then Em would get in for sure. But can you say with a straight face em is better then that above list?
Eminem? That guy is garbage. Pure marketing machine.
Are you just trying to get attention? Eminem is a Top 10 rapper of all time IMO. If he was black it probably wouldnt even be up for debate.
Best living rapper? Early Jay-Z. Runner ups Rakim, Phonte, Nas, Mos Def, Andre 3K. And look out for Saigon...
If Eminem were black, he wouldn't be a household name or half as popular...
True. In all reality, Eminem is just a depressed, self-hating and more aggressive version of Al Yankovic.
At the time of Eminem's rise, Dre realized that there was no way to ever conquer that cheesy boy-band freight train unless he molds one of which has the boy band looks and have him infiltrate that rap-unchartered fanbase.
Dre WON. Dre is a brilliant mogul. Eminem = tool.
Dre thought of this idea one night and was like "Cha-ching!"
And oh, anyone who considers Eminem Top 10 of ALL TIME knows nothing about rap.
Off the top of my head, these guys are better than marketing-hype boy:
RasKass
Rakim
Nas
Mos
KRS
Big
Pac
Talib
Common
E
Ty Shaw
Pimp-C
Kurupt
etc.
even Snoop(Yes, Snoop before he became the black, male, hood-version of Paris Hilton, as far as being a media whore goes)
This is ridiculous. Someone insisting Pimp C is a better rapper than Eminem is now telling people they dont know hip hop? Give me a break dude, Eminem is nothing like Weird Al.
For intents and purposes of this post I am referring to early Eminem - his first two albums. Sure Dre had a great idea by signing him but Eminem brought something to hip hop that had never been done. Some of the craziest bars I've ever heard (and I've been listening to hip hop for 20 years, so save the inevitable "I know more than you" rant) and did something completely fresh and unheard of. Nobody has come close to his stage presence, flow, wordplay, etc recently. Millions of people connected with what he had to say, and it wasnt just suburban white kids.
Are you forgetting the fact that he's murdered legends like Jay-Z and Rakim on their own songs? Answer me this - Eminem on stage battling some rappers on your top 10 list ala Kurupt, who do you think the crowd responds to?
You obviously have some issues with Eminem, which is fine, but dont come off telling people they dont know anything about hip hop because they consider him a Top 10 rapper. There is a great case to be made for it, regardless of whether or not you agree.
i think Em is the truth in his own right. But lets see if he makes the top 10 dead or alive list.
this is in no special order.
1.KRS
2. Rakim
3.Ice Cube
4. LL Cool J
5. pac
6. Biggie
7. Big L
8. Andre 3000
9. Nas
10. Jay Z
Honorable mentions: Em. Big Pun, Method man, Redman, Common, Kool G rap, Scarface
If i take out Big L, Biggie, and Pun for not having enough material before they died. then Em would get in for sure. But can you say with a straight face em is better then that above list?
When I think of best rapper I am looking at the entire artist. Not just wordplay and metaphors but cultural impact and importance of their catalog. In terms of being a complete artist, Eminem has advantages over a few people on that list.
And its hard to compare rappers from 10-15 years ago to recent ones. KRS was hot in the mid 90s but would he still hold up? LL is wack these days. Big L doesnt have enough material.
IMO Eminem has a place on the Top 10 Living Rapper list.
And I'm not even a huge Eminem fan, I just think that poster is very ignorant saying hes on par with Nelly, Weird Al and boy bands. _________________ 2009 NBA CHAMPIONS!!!
Joined: 24 Jun 2003 Posts: 3006 Location: Arcadia, CA
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:40 am Post subject:
3/4 of everyone's list is in that song.
Rakim, KRS, Nas, and Kanye. _________________ In regards to a certain fan wanting to cut his wrists:
Orestes: "Guess that's one way to find out if you really bleed purple & gold."
Joined: 03 Nov 2005 Posts: 28461 Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:46 am Post subject:
postandpivot wrote:
I could careless about what his peers say about him. they learned from him. they owe him their lives darn near (LOL). if it wasn't for Ra they would not be rapping today or not rapping like they are. like i stated. Ra was 8 years or so ahead of his time with his lyrics and rhyme scheme to an extent. people did not rap like that back then. but i would also say Kool G rap was ahead of his time as well. no one really talks about him. the only guy who gave him consistent props was Big Pun. thats because pun tried to emulate G rap and did a darn good job of it. and since i named him. Kool G rap is a guy that came up in the 80's, that can still hang today. but most people wont even mention him.
Rakim murdered Classic with K.West, Nas, and KRS-1. He killed it on It's Nothing. Don't let his label(s) issues cloud the discussion. He can still rip it, TODAY!
Eminem? That guy is garbage. Pure marketing machine.
Are you just trying to get attention? Eminem is a Top 10 rapper of all time IMO. If he was black it probably wouldnt even be up for debate.
Best living rapper? Early Jay-Z. Runner ups Rakim, Phonte, Nas, Mos Def, Andre 3K. And look out for Saigon...
If Eminem were black, he wouldn't be a household name or half as popular...
True. In all reality, Eminem is just a depressed, self-hating and more aggressive version of Al Yankovic.
At the time of Eminem's rise, Dre realized that there was no way to ever conquer that cheesy boy-band freight train unless he molds one of which has the boy band looks and have him infiltrate that rap-unchartered fanbase.
Dre WON. Dre is a brilliant mogul. Eminem = tool.
Dre thought of this idea one night and was like "Cha-ching!"
And oh, anyone who considers Eminem Top 10 of ALL TIME knows nothing about rap.
Off the top of my head, these guys are better than marketing-hype boy:
RasKass
Rakim
Nas
Mos
KRS
Big
Pac
Talib
Common
E
Ty Shaw
Pimp-C
Kurupt
etc.
even Snoop(Yes, Snoop before he became the black, male, hood-version of Paris Hilton, as far as being a media whore goes)
This is ridiculous. Someone insisting Pimp C is a better rapper than Eminem is now telling people they dont know hip hop? Give me a break dude, Eminem is nothing like Weird Al.
For intents and purposes of this post I am referring to early Eminem - his first two albums. Sure Dre had a great idea by signing him but Eminem brought something to hip hop that had never been done. Some of the craziest bars I've ever heard (and I've been listening to hip hop for 20 years, so save the inevitable "I know more than you" rant) and did something completely fresh and unheard of. Nobody has come close to his stage presence, flow, wordplay, etc recently. Millions of people connected with what he had to say, and it wasnt just suburban white kids.
Are you forgetting the fact that he's murdered legends like Jay-Z and Rakim on their own songs? Answer me this - Eminem on stage battling some rappers on your top 10 list ala Kurupt, who do you think the crowd responds to?
You obviously have some issues with Eminem, which is fine, but dont come off telling people they dont know anything about hip hop because they consider him a Top 10 rapper. There is a great case to be made for it, regardless of whether or not you agree.
i think Em is the truth in his own right. But lets see if he makes the top 10 dead or alive list.
this is in no special order.
1.KRS
2. Rakim
3.Ice Cube
4. LL Cool J
5. pac
6. Biggie
7. Big L
8. Andre 3000
9. Nas
10. Jay Z
Honorable mentions: Em. Big Pun, Method man, Redman, Common, Kool G rap, Scarface
If i take out Big L, Biggie, and Pun for not having enough material before they died. then Em would get in for sure. But can you say with a straight face em is better then that above list?
When I think of best rapper I am looking at the entire artist. Not just wordplay and metaphors but cultural impact and importance of their catalog. In terms of being a complete artist, Eminem has advantages over a few people on that list.
And its hard to compare rappers from 10-15 years ago to recent ones. KRS was hot in the mid 90s but would he still hold up? LL is wack these days. Big L doesnt have enough material.
IMO Eminem has a place on the Top 10 Living Rapper list.
And I'm not even a huge Eminem fan, I just think that poster is very ignorant saying hes on par with Nelly, Weird Al and boy bands.
its not hard to compare artist from 10- 15 years ago to recent ones. because those names that are there were good enough to go thru more then just their era. LL lasted for a good 15 years. KRS lasted for a good 10, Kool G rap did the same. and can still hang today. i've heard him on songs with new artist. the dude still has it. why? i dont know, but he still has it.
Em is wack these days and em hasn't been out for as long as LL, krs, Kool G, etc. so what does that say?
and for the record, the problem with comparing impact of guys on that list with em is em is going to have a huge impact just based on the fact he's a white guy that could rap well and sold zillions of records. but if he wasn't a white guy, his style of rapping/his content would not have gone over as well if at all. we may think of him in the same breath as a ..lets say immortal technique or rass kass. you know an under/overground rapper. never could make that push into mainstream success.
So if you take the fact that Em was white when he came out, out the equation. then his impact lessens.
like i said, he could get in the list only because biggie and Big L were guys that died to early. therefore they did not have sufficient material if you're honest with yourself.
I could careless about what his peers say about him. they learned from him. they owe him their lives darn near (LOL). if it wasn't for Ra they would not be rapping today or not rapping like they are. like i stated. Ra was 8 years or so ahead of his time with his lyrics and rhyme scheme to an extent. people did not rap like that back then. but i would also say Kool G rap was ahead of his time as well. no one really talks about him. the only guy who gave him consistent props was Big Pun. thats because pun tried to emulate G rap and did a darn good job of it. and since i named him. Kool G rap is a guy that came up in the 80's, that can still hang today. but most people wont even mention him.
Rakim murdered Classic with K.West, Nas, and KRS-1. He killed it on It's Nothing. Don't let his label(s) issues cloud the discussion. He can still rip it, TODAY!
sure he did. but tthat was an old school beat with an old school vibe. so i might as well pick up an old ra tape and get the same affect. give me some ra on something new and updated with new and semi update artists(not this trash ring tone nonsense)
Joined: 03 Nov 2005 Posts: 28461 Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side
Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:29 am Post subject:
postandpivot wrote:
TACH wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
I could careless about what his peers say about him. they learned from him. they owe him their lives darn near (LOL). if it wasn't for Ra they would not be rapping today or not rapping like they are. like i stated. Ra was 8 years or so ahead of his time with his lyrics and rhyme scheme to an extent. people did not rap like that back then. but i would also say Kool G rap was ahead of his time as well. no one really talks about him. the only guy who gave him consistent props was Big Pun. thats because pun tried to emulate G rap and did a darn good job of it. and since i named him. Kool G rap is a guy that came up in the 80's, that can still hang today. but most people wont even mention him.
Rakim murdered Classic with K.West, Nas, and KRS-1. He killed it on It's Nothing. Don't let his label(s) issues cloud the discussion. He can still rip it, TODAY!
sure he did. but tthat was an old school beat with an old school vibe. so i might as well pick up an old ra tape and get the same affect. give me some ra on something new and updated with new and semi update artists(not this trash ring tone nonsense)
So what that it is an old school beat (hence the name of the track 'Claasic')... what does that have do with it. His lyrics, flow, etc were on point... he straight killed it...
Check out "It's Nothing"....
And LL has been around longer that 15 years, try 23... Radio dropped in 1985 (I was freshman in high school DoH!!!). Bigger and Deffer was insane, he sliped on Walk Like a Panther, but killed it with Mama Said Knock You Out.
I could careless about what his peers say about him. they learned from him. they owe him their lives darn near (LOL). if it wasn't for Ra they would not be rapping today or not rapping like they are. like i stated. Ra was 8 years or so ahead of his time with his lyrics and rhyme scheme to an extent. people did not rap like that back then. but i would also say Kool G rap was ahead of his time as well. no one really talks about him. the only guy who gave him consistent props was Big Pun. thats because pun tried to emulate G rap and did a darn good job of it. and since i named him. Kool G rap is a guy that came up in the 80's, that can still hang today. but most people wont even mention him.
Rakim murdered Classic with K.West, Nas, and KRS-1. He killed it on It's Nothing. Don't let his label(s) issues cloud the discussion. He can still rip it, TODAY!
sure he did. but tthat was an old school beat with an old school vibe. so i might as well pick up an old ra tape and get the same affect. give me some ra on something new and updated with new and semi update artists(not this trash ring tone nonsense)
So what that it is an old school beat (hence the name of the track 'Claasic')... what does that have do with it. His lyrics, flow, etc were on point... he straight killed it...
Check out "It's Nothing"....
the point is. if you throw any old head legendary rapper on an old head rapper style beat. that old head rapper will kill the track. thats a given. but can he/she stand the test of time and kill a track on a new school beat, with a new school vibe? maybe, maybe not. like i said, Ra prove to me he still had it a few years ago when he destroyed the watcher 2. but can he still bring that today?I'm not so sure. i heard another song of his own from a couple of years ago and it was cool. but thats all it was. it sounded dated.
Eminem? That guy is garbage. Pure marketing machine.
Are you just trying to get attention? Eminem is a Top 10 rapper of all time IMO. If he was black it probably wouldnt even be up for debate.
Best living rapper? Early Jay-Z. Runner ups Rakim, Phonte, Nas, Mos Def, Andre 3K. And look out for Saigon...
If Eminem were black, he wouldn't be a household name or half as popular...
True. In all reality, Eminem is just a depressed, self-hating and more aggressive version of Al Yankovic.
At the time of Eminem's rise, Dre realized that there was no way to ever conquer that cheesy boy-band freight train unless he molds one of which has the boy band looks and have him infiltrate that rap-unchartered fanbase.
Dre WON. Dre is a brilliant mogul. Eminem = tool.
Dre thought of this idea one night and was like "Cha-ching!"
And oh, anyone who considers Eminem Top 10 of ALL TIME knows nothing about rap.
Off the top of my head, these guys are better than marketing-hype boy:
RasKass
Rakim
Nas
Mos
KRS
Big
Pac
Talib
Common
E
Ty Shaw
Pimp-C
Kurupt
etc.
even Snoop(Yes, Snoop before he became the black, male, hood-version of Paris Hilton, as far as being a media whore goes)
get pimp-c, kurupt off of that list. and who is Ty shaw? that right there tells me he has no business even getting an honorable mention.
Pimp C was good for the southern section but he wasn't better then scarface, nor was he better then either outkast member. so scratch him.
Kurupt had a nice little run but lets be real. what on earth is kurupt actually rapping about? Nothing really. scratch kurupt for not having any legit content. and who is E? E for Eric sermon? E for E-40?
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