Top 10 Sports Matchups You'd Want To See
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LuxuryBrown
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:48 am    Post subject:

doughboy90650 wrote:
TACH wrote:
^^ Lennox definitely dodged Tyson... no question.

But in regards to Michael Spinks, he was a natural light heavyweight that step up to the heavyweight division we he saw an opportunity to beat an aging Larry Holmes in a weak heavyweight division to win the title.

Besides Tyson, who were the notable heavyweights during that era, Mike Tyson's 'prime'? The before mentioned aged Larry Holmes? Carl 'The Truth' Williams? Look who he fought to unify the belts, Trevor Berbick, James Smith, and Tony Tucker (he went the distance with both Smith and Tucker, yet I'm suppose to believe he would knock Ali out in Ali's prime, c'mon dawg). Not exactly Liston (2), Patterson (2), Frazier (3), Forman, Norton (3), Leon Spinks (2)... And who did Tyson defend his belt against? And aged Larry Holmes? Frank Bruno?


When did Lennox duck Mike???

First of all, Lewis didn't duck Tyson because Tyson road to going no where started in 1990 .... Lennox only had a few professional fights since he beat Riddick Bowe in the 1988 Olympix in Seoul .... then Mike was too busy bangin' instead of trainin' in Japan versus Douglass ... downhill from there. Lewis was just an upstart heavyweight then and his road to success started when Mike was in prison. (When Bowe ducked Lennox)

And Don King paid Lennox Lewis to step aside so Mike could unify the titles against Bruce Seldon. Then when it was time for them to hook up in 1996 or 1997, they didnt wanna see Lewis and the WBC title was vacant. So basically Mike dodged Lewis. When it was time for Mike to put up or shut up, he basically dodged Lewis and vacated the WBC title; and that led to Lewis fighting McCall for the second time and McCall started crying ..... LOL

Lennox woulda mopped Tyson even after he was released from prison because (1) his skills were basically gone, (2) no side to side and lateral movement, (3) Don King, (4) no Kevin Rooney, his corner was absolutely booty and (5) Lennox was bigger, stronger and in his prime. Look at how Lewis mopped Holyfield and Holy walked through Tyson.

PRIME vs PRIME .... Tyson (trained by Rooney) vs Lewis(trained by Stewart) ... I'll take Lewis all day everyday ..... better jab, bigger, stronger and after 5 rounds Tyson would be done. Mike had problems against big heavyweights with good jabs.


Where are you getting this info that King paid Lennox to step aside? And Mike wasn't gonna take on Lennox that soon after just getting released, as far as 1996 goes. He woulda been a fool too.

But I really don't see how you can say that Lennox woulda mopped Mike when Lennox got completely annihilated in just Round 2 by Oliver McCall in their first fight (Funny you didn't mention THAT fight, eh? ).

And Prime Mike vs Prime Lennox - I'm taking Mike without even thinking about it. Mike dispatched tall heavyweights before, and Lennox (6'5)wouldn't have been any different from Bruno (6'3), Ruddock (6'3), Bonecrusher Smith (6'4), and Buster (6'4). Stronger meant nothing. Mike was as strong, if not stronger, than most of the dudes he faced.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:54 am    Post subject:

doughboy90650 wrote:
LuxuryBrown wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
lol @ Tyson .... who has he beaten?

Ali had Norton, whom he actually lost to more than once in my eyes, Frazier, Foreman, Liston, Lyle, the hardest hitting heavyweight of all time in Ernie Shavers, et al and fought most of them more than once ......

Tyson's claim to fame is beating ..... uh, er, Light Heavyweight/Cruiserweight Michael Spinks. Every big fight he's been in, he got worked.

If you wanna match up Ali with anyone from this era, you'd probably look towards a focused and in shape Lennox Lewis. When his jab was on, it was brutal.


If you ONLY saw the Michael Spinks fight, then you may wanna sit this convo out, playa.

And did you REALLY say that Ernie Shavers was the hardest hitting H-weight of all time? - Not even close, bruh.

And when will some people recognize the word PRIME?

Oh, and Lennox dodged Mike, too. So what does THAT tell you? But hey, stick to the Michael Spinks fight!


lol @ sit outta this convo ... boxing is like second after basketball for me .... that Spinks fight doesn't validate anything for Mike ..... he was basically fightin a dude who was fighting close to 15 lbs. above his natural fighting weight. It was a lose-win for Spinks. He couldnt handle the weight class jumps (lose) but he gotta nice pay day (win).

Boxing is names, politix and matchup ...... Spinx came up from light heavy and fought a declining Larry Holmes and lost the second fight to Holmes; but was given the decision. And you're gonna base Mike's career on Spinx ....... you gotta have something much better than that ......

Now granted, Mike did appear when the heavyweights were null and void, but he's only had three signature (name vs name) fights and lost two of them. Won't count the Douglass fight because before he mopped Tyson, you couldn't tell the difference between Buster Douglass and Michael Douglass.

Spinks ..... won in 1st round, KO
Holyfield .... lost, 11th round KO
Lewis ..... lost, 8th round KO - to Tyson's credit, he was way passed his prime


So why'd you bring up ONLY the Spinks fight then?

And do me a favor - PLEASE show me where I said "I'm basing Mike's ENTIRE CAREER OFF THE MICHAEL SPINKS FIGHT"? Never did, so I have no idea where you got that from.

And if you think "names" are a part of the equation, then that means Holmes is a better fighter than Ali, since he was the last person to beat Ali...Right?

So no, names aren't it as it may seem to you. It's fights, and who put up the best fights against their opponent, so it's "styles" much more than "names". But again, you're going outside the "Prime Mike" area to plead your case and that tells me a lot right there.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:56 am    Post subject:

doughboy90650 wrote:
LuxuryBrown wrote:
Mike Tyson marathon/Greatest Hits on ESPN Classic right now. Watch the sheer, raw, beast in this dude. Sick.


I saw that too ..... now, look at the competition ..... not that's funny
I don't ever put down anyone who steps into the ring because you can die in there, but just check out the comp.


Yeah, everyone's had tomato cans. Name ONE boxer that didn't. But my point was, look at the ferociousness and beatdowns he applied to said tomato cans . Name a another boxer that inflicted that type of power, speed, pain, and fear on their opponents. Just one. You can't. You've never seen guys LITERALLY RUN from a dude or just pack it in. And this was even being done by SEASONED VETERANS !
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:59 am    Post subject:

doughboy90650 wrote:
LuxuryBrown wrote:
TACH wrote:
Floyd was far from over this hill in his first meeting with Ali and Liston was the champ when Ali knocked him out.

In Ali's entire career, he was knocked down how many times,... yet you still want to harp on it (plus I have words for you Buster Douglas,.... Ali was never knocked-out or TKO'd like that in his prime, by the likes of a Buster Douglas). Ali was a better fighter, fought tougher competition, did it longer and better than Tyson. Tyson resume, in his prime, doesn't even come close to Ali's resume... Tyson's biggest fight in his prime was Michael Spinks Mike Spinks couldn't even beat his father let alone Norton, Frazier, Forman and company. I think you are the one idolizin and not realizing. Juts look at the opponents Tyson faced and compare that to Ali. Ali would of taken Tyson apart, both physically and mentally. Most if not all boxing experts agree with that statement.


Uh, Ali's been knocked down 4 times, ONCE BY TOMATOE CAN CHUCK WEPNER! - So please don't try and romanticize any of that. It is what it is. 2 scrubs banked him: Cooper & Wepner, so PLEASE don't sit here and try and tell me that Mike Tyson wouldn't be able to floor Ali. Ya dreamin', bruh. Seriously.

Too much myth and idolization goin' on. Ali was human, contrary to popular belief. And why you still believe that Ali was this punishing puncher that would "take Tyson apart" is beyond me as well.

This weekend, on ESPN Classics, there's gonna be a Mike Tyson marathon. Peep it. You will see something Ali has never had to face. Ever: A ferocious heavyweight with middleweight speed and heavyweight punching power - unmatched by anyone ever since. Fact.



go to 6:30 and see if that's really a knock down ..... more like Ali stumbled .....


Even still, no way a super scrub like Wepner should be banging on Ali. Now, if HE can do that to Ali...Imagine what Prime Mike would've done to Ali. That's why I always urge people to check out as many Ali fights as they can instead of the same ones they ALWAYS run: Frazier, Foreman - And that's really it. Go see when Banks dropped him. People don't talk about that one either.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:38 am    Post subject:

LuxuryBrown wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
TACH wrote:
^^ Lennox definitely dodged Tyson... no question.

But in regards to Michael Spinks, he was a natural light heavyweight that step up to the heavyweight division we he saw an opportunity to beat an aging Larry Holmes in a weak heavyweight division to win the title.

Besides Tyson, who were the notable heavyweights during that era, Mike Tyson's 'prime'? The before mentioned aged Larry Holmes? Carl 'The Truth' Williams? Look who he fought to unify the belts, Trevor Berbick, James Smith, and Tony Tucker (he went the distance with both Smith and Tucker, yet I'm suppose to believe he would knock Ali out in Ali's prime, c'mon dawg). Not exactly Liston (2), Patterson (2), Frazier (3), Forman, Norton (3), Leon Spinks (2)... And who did Tyson defend his belt against? And aged Larry Holmes? Frank Bruno?


When did Lennox duck Mike???

First of all, Lewis didn't duck Tyson because Tyson road to going no where started in 1990 .... Lennox only had a few professional fights since he beat Riddick Bowe in the 1988 Olympix in Seoul .... then Mike was too busy bangin' instead of trainin' in Japan versus Douglass ... downhill from there. Lewis was just an upstart heavyweight then and his road to success started when Mike was in prison. (When Bowe ducked Lennox)

And Don King paid Lennox Lewis to step aside so Mike could unify the titles against Bruce Seldon. Then when it was time for them to hook up in 1996 or 1997, they didnt wanna see Lewis and the WBC title was vacant. So basically Mike dodged Lewis. When it was time for Mike to put up or shut up, he basically dodged Lewis and vacated the WBC title; and that led to Lewis fighting McCall for the second time and McCall started crying ..... LOL

Lennox woulda mopped Tyson even after he was released from prison because (1) his skills were basically gone, (2) no side to side and lateral movement, (3) Don King, (4) no Kevin Rooney, his corner was absolutely booty and (5) Lennox was bigger, stronger and in his prime. Look at how Lewis mopped Holyfield and Holy walked through Tyson.

PRIME vs PRIME .... Tyson (trained by Rooney) vs Lewis(trained by Stewart) ... I'll take Lewis all day everyday ..... better jab, bigger, stronger and after 5 rounds Tyson would be done. Mike had problems against big heavyweights with good jabs.


Where are you getting this info that King paid Lennox to step aside? And Mike wasn't gonna take on Lennox that soon after just getting released, as far as 1996 goes. He woulda been a fool too.

But I really don't see how you can say that Lennox woulda mopped Mike when Lennox got completely annihilated in just Round 2 by Oliver McCall in their first fight (Funny you didn't mention THAT fight, eh? ).

And Prime Mike vs Prime Lennox - I'm taking Mike without even thinking about it. Mike dispatched tall heavyweights before, and Lennox (6'5)wouldn't have been any different from Bruno (6'3), Ruddock (6'3), Bonecrusher Smith (6'4), and Buster (6'4). Stronger meant nothing. Mike was as strong, if not stronger, than most of the dudes he faced.


Mike dispatched all tall heavyweights who didn't have a solid and snapping jab. Any person Mike faced who had a decent jab worked him. And as far as Mike dodging Lennox, anyone who knows boxing who's that issue. Just do a boxing search and you will see it numerous times. Boxing politics dude.

Mike gets outta prison. Then after a few tune up fights, he gets a piece of the heavyweight title. The WBC said now that you're the champ Mike, you gotta face the mandatory number 1 contender, which was Lewis. The WBC, every should know, is Don King's ho. And Jose Sulaiman, president of the WBC, is his main ho. They paid Lennox to step aside so that Tyson could get the WBA title from Seldon with promising Lennox and title should after Mike waxed Seldon. After he beat Seldon, Lennox got screwed. Anyone who keeps up on the fight game knows that fact.

And as far as that Oliver McCall first fight. He had another one of those against Rahman where he didn't (1) listen to Manny Stewart and (2) come in good shape. He was over 250 in both of those losses and got worked. But when focused and fighting at his natural 235-239, dude is deadly.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:49 am    Post subject:

LuxuryBrown wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
LuxuryBrown wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
lol @ Tyson .... who has he beaten?

Ali had Norton, whom he actually lost to more than once in my eyes, Frazier, Foreman, Liston, Lyle, the hardest hitting heavyweight of all time in Ernie Shavers, et al and fought most of them more than once ......

Tyson's claim to fame is beating ..... uh, er, Light Heavyweight/Cruiserweight Michael Spinks. Every big fight he's been in, he got worked.

If you wanna match up Ali with anyone from this era, you'd probably look towards a focused and in shape Lennox Lewis. When his jab was on, it was brutal.




If you ONLY saw the Michael Spinks fight, then you may wanna sit this convo out, playa.

And did you REALLY say that Ernie Shavers was the hardest hitting H-weight of all time? - Not even close, bruh.

And when will some people recognize the word PRIME?

Oh, and Lennox dodged Mike, too. So what does THAT tell you? But hey, stick to the Michael Spinks fight!




lol @ sit outta this convo ... boxing is like second after basketball for me .... that Spinks fight doesn't validate anything for Mike ..... he was basically fightin a dude who was fighting close to 15 lbs. above his natural fighting weight. It was a lose-win for Spinks. He couldnt handle the weight class jumps (lose) but he gotta nice pay day (win).


Boxing is names, politix and matchup ...... Spinx came up from light heavy and fought a declining Larry Holmes and lost the second fight to Holmes; but was given the decision. And you're gonna base Mike's career on Spinx ....... you gotta have something much better than that ......

Now granted, Mike did appear when the heavyweights were null and void, but he's only had three signature (name vs name) fights and lost two of them. Won't count the Douglass fight because before he mopped Tyson, you couldn't tell the difference between Buster Douglass and Michael Douglass.


Spinks ..... won in 1st round, KO
Holyfield .... lost, 11th round KO
Lewis ..... lost, 8th round KO - to Tyson's credit, he was way passed his prime


So why'd you bring up ONLY the Spinks fight then?

And do me a favor - PLEASE show me where I said "I'm basing Mike's ENTIRE CAREER OFF THE MICHAEL SPINKS FIGHT"? Never did, so I have no idea where you got that from.



And if you think "names" are a part of the equation, then that means Holmes is a better fighter than Ali, since he was the last person to beat Ali...Right?

So no, names aren't it as it may seem to you. It's fights, and who put up the best fights against their opponent, so it's "styles" much more than "names". But again, you're going outside the "Prime Mike" area to plead your case and that tells me a lot right there.


Last person to beat Ali when he was age 39 and way over the hill was Trevor Berbick. Ali shoulda retired seven fights before that. But Don was skimming off the top, as usual.

And Mike never really had a prime when you stop and look at it. He got fat off fighting lesser fighters from 1985- 1990. A boxer's prime is five to seven years into their career. Mike was in prison then. He missed out on fighting a focused Riddick Bowe, younger Evander Holyfield - before heart problems and Lennox Lewis. At this time, no one had a better jab than Riddick Bowe. Snapping and powerful jab. Don't really see why he and Rock Newman dodged Lennox either.

And the fighters Mike faced early in his career didn't have styles. (1) they were scared to death and (2) the were grade B, C and D fighters. Hell Buster Douglass was a B to C fighter. That was supposed to be the tune up fight before Mike fought Holyfield which would have really started the rivalries in heavyweight boxing. We got to see them hook up way after their best years.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:53 am    Post subject:

LuxuryBrown wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
LuxuryBrown wrote:
Mike Tyson marathon/Greatest Hits on ESPN Classic right now. Watch the sheer, raw, beast in this dude. Sick.


I saw that too ..... now, look at the competition ..... not that's funny
I don't ever put down anyone who steps into the ring because you can die in there, but just check out the comp.


Yeah, everyone's had tomato cans. Name ONE boxer that didn't. But my point was, look at the ferociousness and beatdowns he applied to said tomato cans . Name a another boxer that inflicted that type of power, speed, pain, and fear on their opponents. Just one. You can't. You've never seen guys LITERALLY RUN from a dude or just pack it in. And this was even being done by SEASONED VETERANS !


we can definitely agree there. Mike was a freak when trained by Rooney and Atlas. Once he got Aaron Snowell and Jay Bright, he no longer through that jab and became a one punch head hunter. And also just stopped going to the body.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:58 am    Post subject:

LuxuryBrown wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
LuxuryBrown wrote:
TACH wrote:
Floyd was far from over this hill in his first meeting with Ali and Liston was the champ when Ali knocked him out.

In Ali's entire career, he was knocked down how many times,... yet you still want to harp on it (plus I have words for you Buster Douglas,.... Ali was never knocked-out or TKO'd like that in his prime, by the likes of a Buster Douglas). Ali was a better fighter, fought tougher competition, did it longer and better than Tyson. Tyson resume, in his prime, doesn't even come close to Ali's resume... Tyson's biggest fight in his prime was Michael Spinks Mike Spinks couldn't even beat his father let alone Norton, Frazier, Forman and company. I think you are the one idolizin and not realizing. Juts look at the opponents Tyson faced and compare that to Ali. Ali would of taken Tyson apart, both physically and mentally. Most if not all boxing experts agree with that statement.


Uh, Ali's been knocked down 4 times, ONCE BY TOMATOE CAN CHUCK WEPNER! - So please don't try and romanticize any of that. It is what it is. 2 scrubs banked him: Cooper & Wepner, so PLEASE don't sit here and try and tell me that Mike Tyson wouldn't be able to floor Ali. Ya dreamin', bruh. Seriously.

Too much myth and idolization goin' on. Ali was human, contrary to popular belief. And why you still believe that Ali was this punishing puncher that would "take Tyson apart" is beyond me as well.

This weekend, on ESPN Classics, there's gonna be a Mike Tyson marathon. Peep it. You will see something Ali has never had to face. Ever: A ferocious heavyweight with middleweight speed and heavyweight punching power - unmatched by anyone ever since. Fact.



go to 6:30 and see if that's really a knock down ..... more like Ali stumbled .....


Even still, no way a super scrub like Wepner should be banging on Ali. Now, if HE can do that to Ali...Imagine what Prime Mike would've done to Ali. That's why I always urge people to check out as many Ali fights as they can instead of the same ones they ALWAYS run: Frazier, Foreman - And that's really it. Go see when Banks dropped him. People don't talk about that one either.


The key for Ali is to withstand the first three rounds and dance with that jab and keep dottin' Mike's eye. Mike has never been known as a long winded fighter. Now Ali has a great chin of his own now. Joe Frazier damn near decapitated him and he got right back up. Ken Norton snapped his jawbone and he took good shots from Ernie Shavers. Also took big shots from Liston and Foreman. Ron Lyle wasn't an easy fighter either. Ali had sneaky power, but I doubt he would knocked Mike out. If Ali were to win, it would either be by stoppage from cuts or decision.

And in that fight versus the Bayonne Bleeder, that was the beginning of the end for Ali. He fought Frazier that year for the third time and it was downhill from there.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:45 pm    Post subject:

doughboy90650 wrote:
LuxuryBrown wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
TACH wrote:
^^ Lennox definitely dodged Tyson... no question.

But in regards to Michael Spinks, he was a natural light heavyweight that step up to the heavyweight division we he saw an opportunity to beat an aging Larry Holmes in a weak heavyweight division to win the title.

Besides Tyson, who were the notable heavyweights during that era, Mike Tyson's 'prime'? The before mentioned aged Larry Holmes? Carl 'The Truth' Williams? Look who he fought to unify the belts, Trevor Berbick, James Smith, and Tony Tucker (he went the distance with both Smith and Tucker, yet I'm suppose to believe he would knock Ali out in Ali's prime, c'mon dawg). Not exactly Liston (2), Patterson (2), Frazier (3), Forman, Norton (3), Leon Spinks (2)... And who did Tyson defend his belt against? And aged Larry Holmes? Frank Bruno?


When did Lennox duck Mike???

First of all, Lewis didn't duck Tyson because Tyson road to going no where started in 1990 .... Lennox only had a few professional fights since he beat Riddick Bowe in the 1988 Olympix in Seoul .... then Mike was too busy bangin' instead of trainin' in Japan versus Douglass ... downhill from there. Lewis was just an upstart heavyweight then and his road to success started when Mike was in prison. (When Bowe ducked Lennox)

And Don King paid Lennox Lewis to step aside so Mike could unify the titles against Bruce Seldon. Then when it was time for them to hook up in 1996 or 1997, they didnt wanna see Lewis and the WBC title was vacant. So basically Mike dodged Lewis. When it was time for Mike to put up or shut up, he basically dodged Lewis and vacated the WBC title; and that led to Lewis fighting McCall for the second time and McCall started crying ..... LOL

Lennox woulda mopped Tyson even after he was released from prison because (1) his skills were basically gone, (2) no side to side and lateral movement, (3) Don King, (4) no Kevin Rooney, his corner was absolutely booty and (5) Lennox was bigger, stronger and in his prime. Look at how Lewis mopped Holyfield and Holy walked through Tyson.

PRIME vs PRIME .... Tyson (trained by Rooney) vs Lewis(trained by Stewart) ... I'll take Lewis all day everyday ..... better jab, bigger, stronger and after 5 rounds Tyson would be done. Mike had problems against big heavyweights with good jabs.


Where are you getting this info that King paid Lennox to step aside? And Mike wasn't gonna take on Lennox that soon after just getting released, as far as 1996 goes. He woulda been a fool too.

But I really don't see how you can say that Lennox woulda mopped Mike when Lennox got completely annihilated in just Round 2 by Oliver McCall in their first fight (Funny you didn't mention THAT fight, eh? ).

And Prime Mike vs Prime Lennox - I'm taking Mike without even thinking about it. Mike dispatched tall heavyweights before, and Lennox (6'5)wouldn't have been any different from Bruno (6'3), Ruddock (6'3), Bonecrusher Smith (6'4), and Buster (6'4). Stronger meant nothing. Mike was as strong, if not stronger, than most of the dudes he faced.


Mike dispatched all tall heavyweights who didn't have a solid and snapping jab. Any person Mike faced who had a decent jab worked him. And as far as Mike dodging Lennox, anyone who knows boxing who's that issue. Just do a boxing search and you will see it numerous times. Boxing politics dude.

Mike gets outta prison. Then after a few tune up fights, he gets a piece of the heavyweight title. The WBC said now that you're the champ Mike, you gotta face the mandatory number 1 contender, which was Lewis. The WBC, every should know, is Don King's ho. And Jose Sulaiman, president of the WBC, is his main ho. They paid Lennox to step aside so that Tyson could get the WBA title from Seldon with promising Lennox and title should after Mike waxed Seldon. After he beat Seldon, Lennox got screwed. Anyone who keeps up on the fight game knows that fact.

And as far as that Oliver McCall first fight. He had another one of those against Rahman where he didn't (1) listen to Manny Stewart and (2) come in good shape. He was over 250 in both of those losses and got worked. But when focused and fighting at his natural 235-239, dude is deadly.


Mike dropped Buster, and Buster was using his jab. In fact, the bell actually SAVED Buster in the 8th. So, no, jabs didn't halt Mike, he kept coming vs the jabbers.

And I did a search to see if Mike dodged Lennox and that King paid him off, and nothing came up. So, I'm asking you to come up with the proof, since you're the one making the claim, you should be able to supply some. To say "Anyone that knows the fight game knows that as fact" isn't proof, bro.

And Lennox is easily one of the top 10 Heavyweights of all time, and he beat EVERYBODY he faced, so he gets major props there...But Prime Mike still trumps him.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:52 pm    Post subject:

doughboy90650 wrote:
LuxuryBrown wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
LuxuryBrown wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
lol @ Tyson .... who has he beaten?

Ali had Norton, whom he actually lost to more than once in my eyes, Frazier, Foreman, Liston, Lyle, the hardest hitting heavyweight of all time in Ernie Shavers, et al and fought most of them more than once ......

Tyson's claim to fame is beating ..... uh, er, Light Heavyweight/Cruiserweight Michael Spinks. Every big fight he's been in, he got worked.

If you wanna match up Ali with anyone from this era, you'd probably look towards a focused and in shape Lennox Lewis. When his jab was on, it was brutal.




If you ONLY saw the Michael Spinks fight, then you may wanna sit this convo out, playa.

And did you REALLY say that Ernie Shavers was the hardest hitting H-weight of all time? - Not even close, bruh.

And when will some people recognize the word PRIME?

Oh, and Lennox dodged Mike, too. So what does THAT tell you? But hey, stick to the Michael Spinks fight!




lol @ sit outta this convo ... boxing is like second after basketball for me .... that Spinks fight doesn't validate anything for Mike ..... he was basically fightin a dude who was fighting close to 15 lbs. above his natural fighting weight. It was a lose-win for Spinks. He couldnt handle the weight class jumps (lose) but he gotta nice pay day (win).


Boxing is names, politix and matchup ...... Spinx came up from light heavy and fought a declining Larry Holmes and lost the second fight to Holmes; but was given the decision. And you're gonna base Mike's career on Spinx ....... you gotta have something much better than that ......

Now granted, Mike did appear when the heavyweights were null and void, but he's only had three signature (name vs name) fights and lost two of them. Won't count the Douglass fight because before he mopped Tyson, you couldn't tell the difference between Buster Douglass and Michael Douglass.


Spinks ..... won in 1st round, KO
Holyfield .... lost, 11th round KO
Lewis ..... lost, 8th round KO - to Tyson's credit, he was way passed his prime


So why'd you bring up ONLY the Spinks fight then?

And do me a favor - PLEASE show me where I said "I'm basing Mike's ENTIRE CAREER OFF THE MICHAEL SPINKS FIGHT"? Never did, so I have no idea where you got that from.



And if you think "names" are a part of the equation, then that means Holmes is a better fighter than Ali, since he was the last person to beat Ali...Right?

So no, names aren't it as it may seem to you. It's fights, and who put up the best fights against their opponent, so it's "styles" much more than "names". But again, you're going outside the "Prime Mike" area to plead your case and that tells me a lot right there.


Last person to beat Ali when he was age 39 and way over the hill was Trevor Berbick. Ali shoulda retired seven fights before that. But Don was skimming off the top, as usual.

And Mike never really had a prime when you stop and look at it. He got fat off fighting lesser fighters from 1985- 1990. A boxer's prime is five to seven years into their career. Mike was in prison then. He missed out on fighting a focused Riddick Bowe, younger Evander Holyfield - before heart problems and Lennox Lewis. At this time, no one had a better jab than Riddick Bowe. Snapping and powerful jab. Don't really see why he and Rock Newman dodged Lennox either.

And the fighters Mike faced early in his career didn't have styles. (1) they were scared to death and (2) the were grade B, C and D fighters. Hell Buster Douglass was a B to C fighter. That was supposed to be the tune up fight before Mike fought Holyfield which would have really started the rivalries in heavyweight boxing. We got to see them hook up way after their best years.


No, Mike did have a prime. Just because some don't call the fights he had "magnificent" doesn't mean he didn't have a prime. Mike's prime was 86-91. That's when he was at his sickest abilities, regardless of the talent he fought. His prime was cut short with the jail time. In other words, Mike basically started off in his prime, all the skill and abilities were there, along with the ferociousness never seen before.

And when you say "early on" where are you stopping at? Because the guys Mike fought had styles, the thing is, they're fear of him caused them to NOT go with their styles and basically try and cover up from the inevitable beatdown they knew they were about to take.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:55 pm    Post subject:

doughboy90650 wrote:
LuxuryBrown wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
LuxuryBrown wrote:
Mike Tyson marathon/Greatest Hits on ESPN Classic right now. Watch the sheer, raw, beast in this dude. Sick.


I saw that too ..... now, look at the competition ..... not that's funny
I don't ever put down anyone who steps into the ring because you can die in there, but just check out the comp.


Yeah, everyone's had tomato cans. Name ONE boxer that didn't. But my point was, look at the ferociousness and beatdowns he applied to said tomato cans . Name a another boxer that inflicted that type of power, speed, pain, and fear on their opponents. Just one. You can't. You've never seen guys LITERALLY RUN from a dude or just pack it in. And this was even being done by SEASONED VETERANS !


we can definitely agree there. Mike was a freak when trained by Rooney and Atlas. Once he got Aaron Snowell and Jay Bright, he no longer through that jab and became a one punch head hunter. And also just stopped going to the body.


Agreed. Although he did continue to go to the body, thing is, he just really used his 3-combo of body-body-uppercut and he was getting predictable and fighters started just covering up for that.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:58 pm    Post subject:

doughboy90650 wrote:
LuxuryBrown wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
LuxuryBrown wrote:
TACH wrote:
Floyd was far from over this hill in his first meeting with Ali and Liston was the champ when Ali knocked him out.

In Ali's entire career, he was knocked down how many times,... yet you still want to harp on it (plus I have words for you Buster Douglas,.... Ali was never knocked-out or TKO'd like that in his prime, by the likes of a Buster Douglas). Ali was a better fighter, fought tougher competition, did it longer and better than Tyson. Tyson resume, in his prime, doesn't even come close to Ali's resume... Tyson's biggest fight in his prime was Michael Spinks Mike Spinks couldn't even beat his father let alone Norton, Frazier, Forman and company. I think you are the one idolizin and not realizing. Juts look at the opponents Tyson faced and compare that to Ali. Ali would of taken Tyson apart, both physically and mentally. Most if not all boxing experts agree with that statement.


Uh, Ali's been knocked down 4 times, ONCE BY TOMATOE CAN CHUCK WEPNER! - So please don't try and romanticize any of that. It is what it is. 2 scrubs banked him: Cooper & Wepner, so PLEASE don't sit here and try and tell me that Mike Tyson wouldn't be able to floor Ali. Ya dreamin', bruh. Seriously.

Too much myth and idolization goin' on. Ali was human, contrary to popular belief. And why you still believe that Ali was this punishing puncher that would "take Tyson apart" is beyond me as well.

This weekend, on ESPN Classics, there's gonna be a Mike Tyson marathon. Peep it. You will see something Ali has never had to face. Ever: A ferocious heavyweight with middleweight speed and heavyweight punching power - unmatched by anyone ever since. Fact.



go to 6:30 and see if that's really a knock down ..... more like Ali stumbled .....


Even still, no way a super scrub like Wepner should be banging on Ali. Now, if HE can do that to Ali...Imagine what Prime Mike would've done to Ali. That's why I always urge people to check out as many Ali fights as they can instead of the same ones they ALWAYS run: Frazier, Foreman - And that's really it. Go see when Banks dropped him. People don't talk about that one either.


The key for Ali is to withstand the first three rounds and dance with that jab and keep dottin' Mike's eye. Mike has never been known as a long winded fighter. Now Ali has a great chin of his own now. Joe Frazier damn near decapitated him and he got right back up. Ken Norton snapped his jawbone and he took good shots from Ernie Shavers. Also took big shots from Liston and Foreman. Ron Lyle wasn't an easy fighter either. Ali had sneaky power, but I doubt he would knocked Mike out. If Ali were to win, it would either be by stoppage from cuts or decision.

And in that fight versus the Bayonne Bleeder, that was the beginning of the end for Ali. He fought Frazier that year for the third time and it was downhill from there.


Ok, good call.

The way I see the fight is:

Mike would stalk him and force the issue. Ali would try and dance but the one thing Ali never faced was a heavyweight with speed and power. Frazier, Norton, and Foreman were all bruisers with very little speed. Mike was a freak of nature, and Mike would've caught Ali and we all know what speed + power can do. I see a KO by Mike. Not calling any rounds, but eventually, he would'e caught Ali slippin'. Too much power, speed, and rage for Ali to deal with.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:50 pm    Post subject:

I am thinking we need our own boxing thread
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:00 pm    Post subject:

encina1 wrote:
I am thinking we need our own boxing thread



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:20 pm    Post subject:

Malone and Rodman.

Oh wait, that's already been done.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:22 pm    Post subject:

LuxuryBrown wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
LuxuryBrown wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
LuxuryBrown wrote:
TACH wrote:
Floyd was far from over this hill in his first meeting with Ali and Liston was the champ when Ali knocked him out.

In Ali's entire career, he was knocked down how many times,... yet you still want to harp on it (plus I have words for you Buster Douglas,.... Ali was never knocked-out or TKO'd like that in his prime, by the likes of a Buster Douglas). Ali was a better fighter, fought tougher competition, did it longer and better than Tyson. Tyson resume, in his prime, doesn't even come close to Ali's resume... Tyson's biggest fight in his prime was Michael Spinks Mike Spinks couldn't even beat his father let alone Norton, Frazier, Forman and company. I think you are the one idolizin and not realizing. Juts look at the opponents Tyson faced and compare that to Ali. Ali would of taken Tyson apart, both physically and mentally. Most if not all boxing experts agree with that statement.


Uh, Ali's been knocked down 4 times, ONCE BY TOMATOE CAN CHUCK WEPNER! - So please don't try and romanticize any of that. It is what it is. 2 scrubs banked him: Cooper & Wepner, so PLEASE don't sit here and try and tell me that Mike Tyson wouldn't be able to floor Ali. Ya dreamin', bruh. Seriously.

Too much myth and idolization goin' on. Ali was human, contrary to popular belief. And why you still believe that Ali was this punishing puncher that would "take Tyson apart" is beyond me as well.

This weekend, on ESPN Classics, there's gonna be a Mike Tyson marathon. Peep it. You will see something Ali has never had to face. Ever: A ferocious heavyweight with middleweight speed and heavyweight punching power - unmatched by anyone ever since. Fact.



go to 6:30 and see if that's really a knock down ..... more like Ali stumbled .....


Even still, no way a super scrub like Wepner should be banging on Ali. Now, if HE can do that to Ali...Imagine what Prime Mike would've done to Ali. That's why I always urge people to check out as many Ali fights as they can instead of the same ones they ALWAYS run: Frazier, Foreman - And that's really it. Go see when Banks dropped him. People don't talk about that one either.


The key for Ali is to withstand the first three rounds and dance with that jab and keep dottin' Mike's eye. Mike has never been known as a long winded fighter. Now Ali has a great chin of his own now. Joe Frazier damn near decapitated him and he got right back up. Ken Norton snapped his jawbone and he took good shots from Ernie Shavers. Also took big shots from Liston and Foreman. Ron Lyle wasn't an easy fighter either. Ali had sneaky power, but I doubt he would knocked Mike out. If Ali were to win, it would either be by stoppage from cuts or decision.

And in that fight versus the Bayonne Bleeder, that was the beginning of the end for Ali. He fought Frazier that year for the third time and it was downhill from there.


Ok, good call.

The way I see the fight is:

Mike would stalk him and force the issue. Ali would try and dance but the one thing Ali never faced was a heavyweight with speed and power. Frazier, Norton, and Foreman were all bruisers with very little speed. Mike was a freak of nature, and Mike would've caught Ali and we all know what speed + power can do. I see a KO by Mike. Not calling any rounds, but eventually, he would'e caught Ali slippin'. Too much power, speed, and rage for Ali to deal with.


Lux... what years would you consider Tyson in his prime? Prior to winning his first title, after unifying the the belts? When was Mike at his absolute best?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:26 pm    Post subject:

^^ (From my earlier post:

Mike's prime was 86-91. That's when he was at his sickest abilities, regardless of the talent he fought. His prime was cut short with the jail time. In other words, Mike basically started off in his prime, all the skill and abilities were there, along with the ferociousness never seen before.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:27 pm    Post subject:

LuxuryBrown wrote:
^^ (From my earlier post:

Mike's prime was 86-91. That's when he was at his sickest abilities, regardless of the talent he fought. His prime was cut short with the jail time. In other words, Mike basically started off in his prime, all the skill and abilities were there, along with the ferociousness never seen before.


Now who were his toughest opponents during his prime?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:42 pm    Post subject:

LuxuryBrown wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
LuxuryBrown wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
TACH wrote:
^^ Lennox definitely dodged Tyson... no question.

But in regards to Michael Spinks, he was a natural light heavyweight that step up to the heavyweight division we he saw an opportunity to beat an aging Larry Holmes in a weak heavyweight division to win the title.

Besides Tyson, who were the notable heavyweights during that era, Mike Tyson's 'prime'? The before mentioned aged Larry Holmes? Carl 'The Truth' Williams? Look who he fought to unify the belts, Trevor Berbick, James Smith, and Tony Tucker (he went the distance with both Smith and Tucker, yet I'm suppose to believe he would knock Ali out in Ali's prime, c'mon dawg). Not exactly Liston (2), Patterson (2), Frazier (3), Forman, Norton (3), Leon Spinks (2)... And who did Tyson defend his belt against? And aged Larry Holmes? Frank Bruno?


When did Lennox duck Mike???

First of all, Lewis didn't duck Tyson because Tyson road to going no where started in 1990 .... Lennox only had a few professional fights since he beat Riddick Bowe in the 1988 Olympix in Seoul .... then Mike was too busy bangin' instead of trainin' in Japan versus Douglass ... downhill from there. Lewis was just an upstart heavyweight then and his road to success started when Mike was in prison. (When Bowe ducked Lennox)

And Don King paid Lennox Lewis to step aside so Mike could unify the titles against Bruce Seldon. Then when it was time for them to hook up in 1996 or 1997, they didnt wanna see Lewis and the WBC title was vacant. So basically Mike dodged Lewis. When it was time for Mike to put up or shut up, he basically dodged Lewis and vacated the WBC title; and that led to Lewis fighting McCall for the second time and McCall started crying ..... LOL

Lennox woulda mopped Tyson even after he was released from prison because (1) his skills were basically gone, (2) no side to side and lateral movement, (3) Don King, (4) no Kevin Rooney, his corner was absolutely booty and (5) Lennox was bigger, stronger and in his prime. Look at how Lewis mopped Holyfield and Holy walked through Tyson.

PRIME vs PRIME .... Tyson (trained by Rooney) vs Lewis(trained by Stewart) ... I'll take Lewis all day everyday ..... better jab, bigger, stronger and after 5 rounds Tyson would be done. Mike had problems against big heavyweights with good jabs.


Where are you getting this info that King paid Lennox to step aside? And Mike wasn't gonna take on Lennox that soon after just getting released, as far as 1996 goes. He woulda been a fool too.

But I really don't see how you can say that Lennox woulda mopped Mike when Lennox got completely annihilated in just Round 2 by Oliver McCall in their first fight (Funny you didn't mention THAT fight, eh? ).

And Prime Mike vs Prime Lennox - I'm taking Mike without even thinking about it. Mike dispatched tall heavyweights before, and Lennox (6'5)wouldn't have been any different from Bruno (6'3), Ruddock (6'3), Bonecrusher Smith (6'4), and Buster (6'4). Stronger meant nothing. Mike was as strong, if not stronger, than most of the dudes he faced.


Mike dispatched all tall heavyweights who didn't have a solid and snapping jab. Any person Mike faced who had a decent jab worked him. And as far as Mike dodging Lennox, anyone who knows boxing who's that issue. Just do a boxing search and you will see it numerous times. Boxing politics dude.

Mike gets outta prison. Then after a few tune up fights, he gets a piece of the heavyweight title. The WBC said now that you're the champ Mike, you gotta face the mandatory number 1 contender, which was Lewis. The WBC, every should know, is Don King's ho. And Jose Sulaiman, president of the WBC, is his main ho. They paid Lennox to step aside so that Tyson could get the WBA title from Seldon with promising Lennox and title should after Mike waxed Seldon. After he beat Seldon, Lennox got screwed. Anyone who keeps up on the fight game knows that fact.

And as far as that Oliver McCall first fight. He had another one of those against Rahman where he didn't (1) listen to Manny Stewart and (2) come in good shape. He was over 250 in both of those losses and got worked. But when focused and fighting at his natural 235-239, dude is deadly.


Mike dropped Buster, and Buster was using his jab. In fact, the bell actually SAVED Buster in the 8th. So, no, jabs didn't halt Mike, he kept coming vs the jabbers.

And I did a search to see if Mike dodged Lennox and that King paid him off, and nothing came up. So, I'm asking you to come up with the proof, since you're the one making the claim, you should be able to supply some. To say "Anyone that knows the fight game knows that as fact" isn't proof, bro.

And Lennox is easily one of the top 10 Heavyweights of all time, and he beat EVERYBODY he faced, so he gets major props there...But Prime Mike still trumps him.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennox_Lewis

He received a chance to fight for the mandatory challenger position within the WBC and won it by knocking out contender Lionel Butler in the U.S. However, the WBC chose to bypass him and give Mike Tyson the first shot at the title that had recently been won by Frank Bruno. Bruno had previously lost to both Lewis and Tyson.

While he had the No. 1 contender's slot in the WBC rankings, he defeated Olympic gold medallist Ray Mercer and contender Tommy Morrison on the road, but agreed to stand aside in exchange for a multi-million dollar payoff by promoter Don King, who wanted his fighter, Mike Tyson, to unify the titles by taking Bruce Seldon's WBA version. After Tyson's win, however, he [Tyson] refused to defend against Lewis, and the WBC title was declared vacant. This set up a rematch between Lewis and McCall, who squared off on February 7, 1997 in Las Vegas. In one of the strangest fights ever, McCall refused to box in the fourth and fifth rounds and actually began to cry in the ring, forcing the referee to stop the fight and award Lewis the victory.



scroll to professional boxing career ..... boxers don't give up belts just to give them up. There has to be a reason. (1) Either a huge payday to fight someone or (2) in the case of Mike and Riddick, not fight someone.

These are the heavyweight champs from 1995 to 1997, Mike was WBC champ in 1996 but Lewis is champ in 1997 without fighting Mike. Pay off.

Frank Bruno (WBC) 1995-96

Mike Tyson (WBC) 1996

Mike Tyson (WBA) 1996

Michael Moorer (IBF) 1996-1997

Evander Holyfield (WBA, IBF) 1996-2000

Lennox Lewis (WBC) 1997-2000

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_list_of_all_past_heavyweight_champions
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:00 pm    Post subject:

TACH wrote:
LuxuryBrown wrote:
^^ (From my earlier post:

Mike's prime was 86-91. That's when he was at his sickest abilities, regardless of the talent he fought. His prime was cut short with the jail time. In other words, Mike basically started off in his prime, all the skill and abilities were there, along with the ferociousness never seen before.


Now who were his toughest opponents during his prime?


Hard to really say because he annihilated everyone that they put in front of him, and he just "stole" the "tough" from everyone: Bonecrusher, Green, Berbick, Biggs, Tubbs, Pinklon Thomas, Carl "The Truth" Williams, Tillis, Tucker, Holmes, and Spinks. The only dude that didn't fear him was Buster, and the stars were aligned perfectly for the greatest upset in boxing history and maybe even sports history.

After that, he took on Razor Ruddock 2 times and those 2 fights are the ONLY ones I watch now because that's when I saw vintage Mike - In shape, defense, ferociousness, and serious about his game.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:03 pm    Post subject:

doughboy90650 wrote:
LuxuryBrown wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
LuxuryBrown wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
TACH wrote:
^^ Lennox definitely dodged Tyson... no question.

But in regards to Michael Spinks, he was a natural light heavyweight that step up to the heavyweight division we he saw an opportunity to beat an aging Larry Holmes in a weak heavyweight division to win the title.

Besides Tyson, who were the notable heavyweights during that era, Mike Tyson's 'prime'? The before mentioned aged Larry Holmes? Carl 'The Truth' Williams? Look who he fought to unify the belts, Trevor Berbick, James Smith, and Tony Tucker (he went the distance with both Smith and Tucker, yet I'm suppose to believe he would knock Ali out in Ali's prime, c'mon dawg). Not exactly Liston (2), Patterson (2), Frazier (3), Forman, Norton (3), Leon Spinks (2)... And who did Tyson defend his belt against? And aged Larry Holmes? Frank Bruno?


When did Lennox duck Mike???

First of all, Lewis didn't duck Tyson because Tyson road to going no where started in 1990 .... Lennox only had a few professional fights since he beat Riddick Bowe in the 1988 Olympix in Seoul .... then Mike was too busy bangin' instead of trainin' in Japan versus Douglass ... downhill from there. Lewis was just an upstart heavyweight then and his road to success started when Mike was in prison. (When Bowe ducked Lennox)

And Don King paid Lennox Lewis to step aside so Mike could unify the titles against Bruce Seldon. Then when it was time for them to hook up in 1996 or 1997, they didnt wanna see Lewis and the WBC title was vacant. So basically Mike dodged Lewis. When it was time for Mike to put up or shut up, he basically dodged Lewis and vacated the WBC title; and that led to Lewis fighting McCall for the second time and McCall started crying ..... LOL

Lennox woulda mopped Tyson even after he was released from prison because (1) his skills were basically gone, (2) no side to side and lateral movement, (3) Don King, (4) no Kevin Rooney, his corner was absolutely booty and (5) Lennox was bigger, stronger and in his prime. Look at how Lewis mopped Holyfield and Holy walked through Tyson.

PRIME vs PRIME .... Tyson (trained by Rooney) vs Lewis(trained by Stewart) ... I'll take Lewis all day everyday ..... better jab, bigger, stronger and after 5 rounds Tyson would be done. Mike had problems against big heavyweights with good jabs.


Where are you getting this info that King paid Lennox to step aside? And Mike wasn't gonna take on Lennox that soon after just getting released, as far as 1996 goes. He woulda been a fool too.

But I really don't see how you can say that Lennox woulda mopped Mike when Lennox got completely annihilated in just Round 2 by Oliver McCall in their first fight (Funny you didn't mention THAT fight, eh? ).

And Prime Mike vs Prime Lennox - I'm taking Mike without even thinking about it. Mike dispatched tall heavyweights before, and Lennox (6'5)wouldn't have been any different from Bruno (6'3), Ruddock (6'3), Bonecrusher Smith (6'4), and Buster (6'4). Stronger meant nothing. Mike was as strong, if not stronger, than most of the dudes he faced.


Mike dispatched all tall heavyweights who didn't have a solid and snapping jab. Any person Mike faced who had a decent jab worked him. And as far as Mike dodging Lennox, anyone who knows boxing who's that issue. Just do a boxing search and you will see it numerous times. Boxing politics dude.

Mike gets outta prison. Then after a few tune up fights, he gets a piece of the heavyweight title. The WBC said now that you're the champ Mike, you gotta face the mandatory number 1 contender, which was Lewis. The WBC, every should know, is Don King's ho. And Jose Sulaiman, president of the WBC, is his main ho. They paid Lennox to step aside so that Tyson could get the WBA title from Seldon with promising Lennox and title should after Mike waxed Seldon. After he beat Seldon, Lennox got screwed. Anyone who keeps up on the fight game knows that fact.

And as far as that Oliver McCall first fight. He had another one of those against Rahman where he didn't (1) listen to Manny Stewart and (2) come in good shape. He was over 250 in both of those losses and got worked. But when focused and fighting at his natural 235-239, dude is deadly.


Mike dropped Buster, and Buster was using his jab. In fact, the bell actually SAVED Buster in the 8th. So, no, jabs didn't halt Mike, he kept coming vs the jabbers.

And I did a search to see if Mike dodged Lennox and that King paid him off, and nothing came up. So, I'm asking you to come up with the proof, since you're the one making the claim, you should be able to supply some. To say "Anyone that knows the fight game knows that as fact" isn't proof, bro.

And Lennox is easily one of the top 10 Heavyweights of all time, and he beat EVERYBODY he faced, so he gets major props there...But Prime Mike still trumps him.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennox_Lewis

He received a chance to fight for the mandatory challenger position within the WBC and won it by knocking out contender Lionel Butler in the U.S. However, the WBC chose to bypass him and give Mike Tyson the first shot at the title that had recently been won by Frank Bruno. Bruno had previously lost to both Lewis and Tyson.

While he had the No. 1 contender's slot in the WBC rankings, he defeated Olympic gold medallist Ray Mercer and contender Tommy Morrison on the road, but agreed to stand aside in exchange for a multi-million dollar payoff by promoter Don King, who wanted his fighter, Mike Tyson, to unify the titles by taking Bruce Seldon's WBA version. After Tyson's win, however, he [Tyson] refused to defend against Lewis, and the WBC title was declared vacant. This set up a rematch between Lewis and McCall, who squared off on February 7, 1997 in Las Vegas. In one of the strangest fights ever, McCall refused to box in the fourth and fifth rounds and actually began to cry in the ring, forcing the referee to stop the fight and award Lewis the victory.



scroll to professional boxing career ..... boxers don't give up belts just to give them up. There has to be a reason. (1) Either a huge payday to fight someone or (2) in the case of Mike and Riddick, not fight someone.

These are the heavyweight champs from 1995 to 1997, Mike was WBC champ in 1996 but Lewis is champ in 1997 without fighting Mike. Pay off.

Frank Bruno (WBC) 1995-96

Mike Tyson (WBC) 1996

Mike Tyson (WBA) 1996

Michael Moorer (IBF) 1996-1997

Evander Holyfield (WBA, IBF) 1996-2000

Lennox Lewis (WBC) 1997-2000

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_list_of_all_past_heavyweight_champions


Yeah, that does seem fishy then. Hmm? Mike ducking Lennox? And it IS boxing, so strangers things have happened. I have nothing to dispute that one, bro, so you may be right and I will concede that one. Good stuff.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:15 pm    Post subject:

The real people who lost was the fans ..... you had Tyson, Bowe, Holyfield and Lewis in the mid 1990s.

Three great fights with Bowe and Holy
And Tyson vs Holy

We were robbed. Should have been more match ups between the four.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:25 pm    Post subject:

^^ Agreed.
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TACH
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:24 am    Post subject:

LuxuryBrown wrote:
TACH wrote:
LuxuryBrown wrote:
^^ (From my earlier post:

Mike's prime was 86-91. That's when he was at his sickest abilities, regardless of the talent he fought. His prime was cut short with the jail time. In other words, Mike basically started off in his prime, all the skill and abilities were there, along with the ferociousness never seen before.


Now who were his toughest opponents during his prime?


Hard to really say because he annihilated everyone that they put in front of him, and he just "stole" the "tough" from everyone: Bonecrusher, Green, Berbick, Biggs, Tubbs, Pinklon Thomas, Carl "The Truth" Williams, Tillis, Tucker, Holmes, and Spinks. The only dude that didn't fear him was Buster, and the stars were aligned perfectly for the greatest upset in boxing history and maybe even sports history.

After that, he took on Razor Ruddock 2 times and those 2 fights are the ONLY ones I watch now because that's when I saw vintage Mike - In shape, defense, ferociousness, and serious about his game.


So in his prime, he fought basically nobody... and was taking the distance by Berbick and Bonecrusher, and was taken into the later rounds by Buster before being knocked the (bleep) out, yet Tyson would take Ali out in the 5th? Come on, no who's living off of 'mystic'? Ali over Tyson, and if Rooney is not in his corner, I would expect a beat worse then the one buster gave him.

Tyson never faced a fighter as tough, smart and with the speed Ali had. Ali was a boxer and a fighter.... Tyson was just a fighter... Ali's style would frustrate Tyson until Tyson slipped up, and that's when Ali would put Tyson on his ass. Ali would out fight, out box, and outclass Tyson, even more so without Rooney in his corner.

Again, I agree to disagree with you on this one.... which is fine, because that's what these threads are about.
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LuxuryBrown
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:01 am    Post subject:

TACH wrote:
LuxuryBrown wrote:
TACH wrote:
LuxuryBrown wrote:
^^ (From my earlier post:

Mike's prime was 86-91. That's when he was at his sickest abilities, regardless of the talent he fought. His prime was cut short with the jail time. In other words, Mike basically started off in his prime, all the skill and abilities were there, along with the ferociousness never seen before.


Now who were his toughest opponents during his prime?


Hard to really say because he annihilated everyone that they put in front of him, and he just "stole" the "tough" from everyone: Bonecrusher, Green, Berbick, Biggs, Tubbs, Pinklon Thomas, Carl "The Truth" Williams, Tillis, Tucker, Holmes, and Spinks. The only dude that didn't fear him was Buster, and the stars were aligned perfectly for the greatest upset in boxing history and maybe even sports history.

After that, he took on Razor Ruddock 2 times and those 2 fights are the ONLY ones I watch now because that's when I saw vintage Mike - In shape, defense, ferociousness, and serious about his game.


So in his prime, he fought basically nobody... and was taking the distance by Berbick and Bonecrusher, and was taken into the later rounds by Buster before being knocked the (bleep) out, yet Tyson would take Ali out in the 5th? Come on, no who's living off of 'mystic'? Ali over Tyson, and if Rooney is not in his corner, I would expect a beat worse then the one buster gave him.

Tyson never faced a fighter as tough, smart and with the speed Ali had. Ali was a boxer and a fighter.... Tyson was just a fighter... Ali's style would frustrate Tyson until Tyson slipped up, and that's when Ali would put Tyson on his ass. Ali would out fight, out box, and outclass Tyson, even more so without Rooney in his corner.

Again, I agree to disagree with you on this one.... which is fine, because that's what these threads are about.


That's what you're missing. You're basing this SOLELY off who he fought as opposed to WHO he was as a fighter.

And dude, Ali was tough. Ali also got beat. Ali also got dropped - BY CHUCK WEPNER AND HENRY COOPER. But you're gonna say they were "Lucky shots" of course, but how do lesser fighters than Tyson get to bash Ali in the first place? Give me a legit answer and not some "they got lucky".

A scrub like SONNY BANKS also knocked him down. The ONLY legit dude to knock Ali down was Smokin' Joe! So again, why wouldn't a fighter that had speed and power and better skills than all of those dudes not be able to bank Ali? It just doesn't make sense to claim otherwise.

And I don't know why you'd think Ali would put Mike on his ass but Mike wouldn't put Ali on HIS ass? Again, it just sounds lore like you're comong from a "That's my idol, so don't ever talk bad about him" point of view rather than a reasonable point of view.
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