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Lakers in the Mix for Deng (UPDATE:more teams jump in pg .18)
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Hector the Pup
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:28 am Post subject:

If it costs Farmar to get Deng, you do it and don't look back. Just go get another point to come off the bench. With 4 starters that strong, it's not that hard to compensate if Fish gets hurt.

WalterJ187
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:30 am Post subject:

Fallout wrote:

How much is Deng demanding now? The max?

He turned down 5 years, $57.5 million last year; I imagine he wants something north of that. I refuse to believe that the Bulls wouldn't give him the same offer as last year, although stranger things have happened.

JUST-MING
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:34 am Post subject:

Sky wrote:

No one takes Luke. Automatic dealbreaker.

The Deng deal LA can try is Deng and Gooden for Odom, Ariza, Farmar. Bulls get value for Deng, Lakers get a backup 4, Bulls get a backup 1 that allows them to move Hinrich and get their payroll calibrated. Forces LA to get another 1 in free agency, but they do love Deng.

I love that trade!

Critical Beatdown
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:39 am Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:

Sky wrote:

I love that trade!

Where does that leave us at point guard, and how have we improved our spacing from deep? Deng brings midrange, but he's not a sniper by any means, and we've lost another one of our best floor spreader snipers in Jordan Farmar in this deal, leaving us with one real point guard.
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Per 100 possessions, we're winning 118-102 with LO on the floor, and losing 109-111 without him. (updated: 4/1/09; source: 82games.com)

angrypuppy
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:41 am Post subject:

Critical Beatdown wrote:

JUST-MING wrote:

Sky wrote:

I love that trade!

Where does that leave us at point guard?

Hopefully we'd make a play for Delonte West. For Deng, it would be a risk well worth undertaking.

Sky
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:42 am Post subject:

Having to look at free agency. What's more important, starting 3 for next 10 years locked in or having to shop for backup 1?

Critical Beatdown
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:44 am Post subject:

Fan0Bynum17 wrote:

24 wrote:

Sky wrote:

Just LO and Ariza might do it. Ariza becomes extraneous if LA gets deng.

I think Chi can get a backup one as part of any Hinrich deal.

I wouldn't mind giving up Farmar and Ariza as well though. For Deng and Gooden, it's more than worth it.

We don't even want Gooden, this deal would be about Deng. Gooden would be let go as an expiring after the season, but we would be hurt at point guard, with very little depth, and our spacing issues would remain to some extent because Deng is not a 3-point sniper.

I would definitely consider Deng for Odom, but I would not throw Farmar in. You only need so many all-stars making $14 million and above, the more of those guys you have, the less you can spend fortifying yourself elsewhere (which is why Lamar is gone after this season unless he takes less money).
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Per 100 possessions, we're winning 118-102 with LO on the floor, and losing 109-111 without him. (updated: 4/1/09; source: 82games.com)

Critical Beatdown
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:47 am Post subject:

Hector the Pup wrote:

If it costs Farmar to get Deng, you do it and don't look back. Just go get another point to come off the bench.

With 4 starters that strong, it's not that hard to compensate if Fish gets hurt.

It's not that simple, we would be taking a big risk on our "weakest link", and no team has ever really modeled themselves on having 4 max or near-max starters. There's a reason for that, and it's called depth and balance (not to mention that Deng doesn't really solve the spacing issue that great either, considering he and Lamar both shot 40% on 2-point jumpers last season, and Deng is not a 3-point sniper period).
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Per 100 possessions, we're winning 118-102 with LO on the floor, and losing 109-111 without him. (updated: 4/1/09; source: 82games.com)

im_back
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:49 am Post subject:

Sky wrote:

Having to look at free agency. What's more important, starting 3 for next 10 years locked in or having to shop for backup 1?

I agree. Its funny how people are more concerned with back ups when we can get starters at position of needs.
Could LO/Farmar net us Hinrich.TT?

JUST-MING
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:50 am Post subject:

angrypuppy wrote:

Critical Beatdown wrote:

JUST-MING wrote:

Sky wrote:

I love that trade!

Where does that leave us at point guard?

Hopefully we'd make a play for Delonte West. For Deng, it would be a risk well worth undertaking.

Delonte West for the MLE.

G: Derek Fisher, Delonte West
G/F: Kobe Bryant
F: Luol Deng
F/C: Pau Gasol, Drew Gooden
C: Andrew Bynum

And of course: Radmanovic and Walton

Last edited by JUST-MING on Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:51 am; edited 1 time in total

im_back
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:51 am Post subject:

Critical Beatdown wrote:

Deng doesn't really solve the spacing issue that great either, considering he and Lamar both shot 40% on 2-point jumpers last season, and Deng is not a 3-point sniper period).

get over the #'s.

No one is leaving Deng open. Deng works great w/out ball. Deng is a better defender. Deng is a better slasher.

All non-# strengths=better lakers team

24KaratGold
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:55 am Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:

24 wrote:

We could sweeten things by adding Ariza. Helps our logjam at 3, gives Chi another young prospect, and reduces our salary to the point where Deng and Gooden is almost equal to LO, Ariza (and Ronny at half a mil or so). Plus, again, We now have a 7.1 mil expiring contract to play with going forward.

We can't add anyone but Karl to that deal or else the trade won't work financially.

You sign Deng for $10 mil = BYC $5 mil. Gooden = $7.1 mil. That's $12.1 in outgoing salary x 125% = $15.13 mil. You send them any more than that, the deal won't work. Ariza ($3 mil) + LO ($14.6 mil) = $17.6. Can't happen.

We could do a Deng + Hughes for LO + Ariza or LO + Mihm + Karl as well, but I don't think the Lakers do that deal. Again, so long as I got my math right and they s/t Deng for $10 mil, these are the only options...

1. Deng + Nocioni for LO (+ Karl if they want him)
2. Deng + Gooden for LO (+ Karl if they want him)
3. Deng + Hinrich for LO + Farmar
4. Deng + Gordon (s/t ~$7 mil so not BYC) for LO (+ Karl if they want him)
5. Deng + Hughes for LO + Ariza
6. Deng + Hughes for LO + Mihm + Karl
7. Deng + Hughes for LO + Luke
8. Deng + T. Thomas for Luke + Ariza + Mihm + Farmar
9. Deng + T. Thomas for Vlad + Ariza + Farmar + Coby Karl
10. Deng + Hughes + T. Thomas for LO + Vlad + Ariza + Farmar (+ Karl if they want him)
11. Deng + Hughes + T. Thomas for LO + Vlad + (Ariza or Farmar) (+ Karl if they want him)
12. Deng + Hughes + (Simmons or Sefolosha) for LO + Vlad + Famar (+ Karl if they want him)
13. Deng + Hughes + T. Thomas for LO + Luke + Ariza + Farmar (+ Karl if they want him)
14. Deng + Hughes + T. Thomas for LO + Luke + (Ariza or Farmar) (+ Karl if they want him)
15. Deng + Hughes + (Simmons or Sefolosha) for LO + Luke + Ariza + Famar (+ Karl if they want him)
16. Deng + Hughes + (Simmons or Sefolosha) for LO + Luke + (Ariza or Farmar) (+ Karl if they want him)

You could also do some trades involving Noah, but I am tired of writing these.

I think these bolded trades would be the best, since the Lakers would prefer to get a backup PF if they're losing Lamar, but you can't say no to Kirk Hinrich.

Fallout
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:55 am Post subject:

Critical Beatdown wrote:

Its not like we're giving up an all-star PG. Just like you don't bat an eye when you give up JC in the Gasol trade. I won't like it to lose Farmar, since I like his work ethic and BB IQ. But if thats part of the price, it would be acceptable.

JUST-MING
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:57 am Post subject:

Deng + Hinrich for LO + Farmar Mitch would win executive of the year!

Fan0Bynum17
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:02 pm Post subject:

WalterJ187 wrote:

Fallout wrote:

How much is Deng demanding now? The max?

Word is that they are refusing to give him what they offered him last season.

Lakers4Life33
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:02 pm Post subject:

If we end up doing some trade that sends out Farmar, I think bringing in Jannero Pargo would be a great move

Hector the Pup
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:03 pm Post subject:

Critical Beatdown wrote:

Hector the Pup wrote:

If it costs Farmar to get Deng, you do it and don't look back. Just go get another point to come off the bench.

With 4 starters that strong, it's not that hard to compensate if Fish gets hurt.

Actually, yes, it is that simple. Worrying about a backup 1 isn't a big worry at all.

And Deng does solve the spacing issue. That his consistent range is out to 20.5 feet instead of 23 is an insignificant issue.

Carlos Lehder
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:04 pm Post subject:

Is Farmar any better than Bobby Brown?

Texas_Pete
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:05 pm Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:

Deng + Hinrich for LO + Farmar

Mitch would win executive of the year!

Agreed, but I think he would have to throw in Ariza and/or Mihm so the Bulls could get an expiring KT and a prospect. Not sure if the numbers compute though.

Omar Little
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:06 pm Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:

Deng + Hinrich for LO + Farmar

Mitch would win executive of the year!

Probably throw in Ariza as well (works under the cap)

Gives the Bulls either a ton of expirings, or the ability to keep some of the pieces and still have cap room.

Farmar is a cheap alternative to Hinrich backing up rose. Ariza backs up nocioni at 3, with LO playing some 4 and a little 3.

Qualifying offers for cap purposes (what counts against their cap when going out to sign a big name) for Ariza and Farmar are almost half of what Hinrich is on the books for, so they wouldnt need to renounce to go out and make offers.
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WalterJ187
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:06 pm Post subject:

Fan0Bynum17 wrote:

WalterJ187 wrote:

Fallout wrote:

How much is Deng demanding now? The max?

Word is that they are refusing to give him what they offered him last season.

That's just sad considering all the momentum Rose brings to the team. Way to kill all the renewed excitement!

Perhaps they're playing hardball with him because they have faith in Thabo's development into an everyday 3. He played pretty well when given FT minutes. Or they're just being cheap!

king255
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:07 pm Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:

angrypuppy wrote:

Critical Beatdown wrote:

JUST-MING wrote:

Sky wrote:

I love that trade!

Where does that leave us at point guard?

Hopefully we'd make a play for Delonte West. For Deng, it would be a risk well worth undertaking.

Delonte West for the MLE.

G: Derek Fisher, Delonte West
G/F: Kobe Bryant
F: Luol Deng
F/C: Pau Gasol, Drew Gooden
C: Andrew Bynum

And of course: Radmanovic and Walton

If we get Delonte West, he should be the starter, not D-Fish

Fan0Bynum17
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:09 pm Post subject:

Critical Beatdown wrote:

Fan0Bynum17 wrote:

24 wrote:

Sky wrote:

Just LO and Ariza might do it. Ariza becomes extraneous if LA gets deng.

I think Chi can get a backup one as part of any Hinrich deal.

I wouldn't mind giving up Farmar and Ariza as well though. For Deng and Gooden, it's more than worth it.

I'm aware it's about Deng, but that doesn't mean Gooden wouldn't be an asset.

Look, I don't know what Buss is willing to spend, but Deng is a much better fit here than Lamar is and I can see us spending more for that better fit. I would throw in Farmar because I honestly believe the fit is that much better and while I like Farmar, he leaves a lot to be desired.

Critical Beatdown
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:09 pm Post subject:

im_back wrote:

Critical Beatdown wrote:

Deng doesn't really solve the spacing issue that great either, considering he and Lamar both shot 40% on 2-point jumpers last season, and Deng is not a 3-point sniper period).

get over the #'s.

No one is leaving Deng open. Deng works great w/out ball. Deng is a better defender. Deng is a better slasher.

All non-# strengths=better lakers team

#'s equals results when it comes to shooting %, and I just want people to be consistent when they point to spacing as the preeminent concern. I know Deng is a better slasher and scorer, which is why I would support getting him if it didn't cost us too much (Odom is enough, because he's what Chicago needs in the first place, don't add Farmar, we need him not only to space the floor and man the point but also because he brings the intangibles, the leadership, the fire, the multi-talented well-rounded game that will only keep improving, Jordan is a winner).
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Per 100 possessions, we're winning 118-102 with LO on the floor, and losing 109-111 without him. (updated: 4/1/09; source: 82games.com)

LakerSanity
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:10 pm Post subject:

DoubleClutch wrote:

LS, good work.

While this is all true, it is also all based on the premise that Deng would get a contract starting at $10 million. If there are players that Chicago wants in return (Ariza, Farmar) there are ways to structure Deng's contract to make the numbers work.

I'm assuming Deng wants a contract somewhere around 5 years, $60 million. By simply making it a flat $12 million per over 5 years, the BYC number goes up a million ($6 mil). Combine that with Gooden ($7.1 mil) = $13.1 x 125% = $16.375 mil. Odom ($14.6) + Farmar ($1.1) = $15.6 million. I believe this trade works both ways.

Just an example of how there are other workable deals depending on how they structure Deng's deal. I think an Odom/Farmar for Deng/Gooden deal is a reasonable exchange for both sides. I could also see an Odom/Ariza/Farmar for Deng/Hughes deal, which I also think is workable under the BYC rules.

True, but once you start getting near $12 million, the deal become a little less satiable for the Lakers. Just makes things more complicated and really increasing his salary to $12 mil only allows you to add Farmar, but doesn't change many of the other trades. I think the Lakers would hesitate at $12 mil and would definitely say no at anything above that.
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Last edited by LakerSanity on Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

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