| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
im_back
Star Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2008
Posts: 1294
|
 Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ValisJason wrote: | | im_back wrote: | | KobeDunk wrote: | where is the LO defense in this thread? Im sure hes a better ball handler than Deng ... c'mon now!  |
dengs strengths are LO's weakness and vice versa
deng:
*Excellent movement w/out ball
*excellent decsions in post
*Excellent creating his own shot
*active defender on quicker guys where his length actually is a strength
*Strong handles
*young
LO:
*RB's
*Back up 4
*taller than deng |
You paint yourself as unreasonable if you list handles as a strength for Deng against Odom. Odom is one of the best, if not the best, handlers of the ball 6'9" or better. |
we are going to have to disagree. LO in theory dating back to his early years could handle. LO of today has dropped off. Now if you are comparing LO's handles to the likes of DHoward, CBosh etc I might agree, but thats a pretty low bar.
However disagreeing is great for MB's |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
kaoss128
Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 13058
Location: Morgantown, WV
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BGB wrote: | | Great One wrote: | Odom>webster>outlaw. But if portland pulls this off, Their team would be
ridiculous  |
Odom > Outlaw > Webster
If Portland could pull it off with a LaFrentz, Batum, picks deal then the Blazers just need to gel. |
They may not even need to make the trade. They could just sign him next offseason. Portland has done an absolutely amazing job of rebuilding. Its definitely the best job of rebuilding I've ever seen done. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Laker_Behemoth
Star Player
Joined: 06 Jul 2008
Posts: 3012
Location: East Coast
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
This is extremely exciting to me.
Fisher
Bryant
Deng
Gasol
Bynum
Does anyone doubt us winning the title next year? Kobe and Luol on the wings, twin towers down low, we would be STACKED, even more so than we already are. I love LO, but if you got a shot at moving an expiring Odom for a resigned Deng, you do it in a heartbeat. Even after Kobe and Pau are gone, we would have Luol and Drew as our duo for the next decade.
As has already been stated, BYC makes this a hard deal to pull off. But the Bulls, if they cannot get Deng locked up, would most likely prefer a big expiring contract to have some cap space for 2010 to get a stud (aka local boy D Wade) to pair with D Rose. If we could pull off something like Odom, Mihm, and another piece for Deng and Gooden then holy crap.
I have never said this before, but... "GET IT DONE MITCH!"
_________________
"After watching Bryant and Cooper go at it for about 10 minutes West stood up, nodded at two team public-relations men he'd brought with him, and snapped, 'That's it, let's get out of here, I've seen enough. He's better than anyone on our team.'"
Last edited by Laker_Behemoth on Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ValisJason
Star Player
Joined: 13 Dec 2002
Posts: 1418
Location: Los Angeles
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| im_back wrote: | | ValisJason wrote: | | im_back wrote: | | KobeDunk wrote: | | where is the LO defense in this thread? Im sure hes a better ball handler than Deng ... c'mon now! |
dengs strengths are LO's weakness and vice versa
deng:
*Excellent movement w/out ball
*excellent decsions in post
*Excellent creating his own shot
*active defender on quicker guys where his length actually is a strength
*Strong handles
*young
LO:
*RB's
*Back up 4
*taller than deng |
You paint yourself as unreasonable if you list handles as a strength for Deng against Odom. Odom is one of the best, if not the best, handlers of the ball 6'9" or better. |
we are going to have to disagree. LO in theory dating back to his early years could handle. LO of today has dropped off. Now if you are comparing LO's handles to the likes of DHoward, CBosh etc I might agree, but thats a pretty low bar.
However disagreeing is great for MB's |
Deng isnt even considered a very good handling forward, much less in Odom's class. Odom is not the fast break-ing slender small forward that he was with the Clippers, but he is still the best big man handler in the league (I can't think of a better one, so please list them if you can).
Not to knock Deng. He would be a great fit at the SF for the Lakers, and I would trade Odom for Deng instantly. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Karmaloop
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 2387
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
A lineup of:
PG: Derek Fisher / Jordan Farmar
SG: Kobe Bryant / Sasha Vujacic / Coby Karl
SF: Luol Deng / Trevor Ariza / Luke Walton
PF: Pau Gasol / Vladimir Radmanovic
C: Andrew Bynum / Chris Mihm
would probably makes us the title favorites, but we have two gaping holes. A backup 4 and backup 5. With Rad and Mihm as our backups, an injury to either Gasol or Bynum and we may be in trouble.
I'm going to look into the intricacies of the BYC clause and see if I can get a deal that works mathematically. I do think that an Odom/Mihm/'Cats Pick/Future 1st for Deng/Gooden deal may be something the Bulls consider.
_________________
| kikanga wrote: | | I'm interested in Olivia Munn. But similar to this LAL/DROZ situation. I don't think the feelings are mutual. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RG73
Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2001
Posts: 11508
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LVLAKERFAN wrote: | We are not getting Deng
100% Pipe.
|
I fail to see how it is 100% pipe.
The Bulls have pissed off Deng. He didn't like the offer last year and they are offering even less this year and he's already given them an ultimatum. That Reisendorf has taken over the Bulls negotiations himself is probably not going to help the Bulls.
So there is a good chance Deng decides he wants out. A very good chance. So the Bulls can either let him walk at that point, or they can try to get something for him. So far we're in the realm of reality here.
So then you have to ask whether or not the Bulls would be interested in Odom, particularly long term (especially if they have no choice but losing Deng). I don't give this a high degree of happening. There will be other options on the table for the Bulls and Odom may very easily not be among the best. But that doesn't make this 100% pipe.
A disgruntled player with the leverage of being able to walk in a season is likely going to get dealt. That's a reality. Whether we have what they want and whether a deal can be worked with BYC issues is another issue altogether, but I'd hardly put this in the realm of science fiction. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kaoss128
Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 13058
Location: Morgantown, WV
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Vidball wrote: | | kaoss128 wrote: | | We have to get Deng if anything just to keep him away from Portland. Portland will have plenty of cap space next year and if Deng is not traded I would be willing to bet he goes there. |
Oden, Aldridge, Deng & Roy in the same lineup would be TOO MUCH!
Bynum, Pau, Deng & Kobe sounds much better |
And you even forgot to mention Bayless. Portland has a ton of potential. They are going to be scary. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
im_back
Star Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2008
Posts: 1294
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ValisJason wrote: | | im_back wrote: | | ValisJason wrote: | | im_back wrote: | | KobeDunk wrote: | | where is the LO defense in this thread? Im sure hes a better ball handler than Deng ... c'mon now! |
dengs strengths are LO's weakness and vice versa
deng:
*Excellent movement w/out ball
*excellent decsions in post
*Excellent creating his own shot
*active defender on quicker guys where his length actually is a strength
*Strong handles
*young
LO:
*RB's
*Back up 4
*taller than deng |
You paint yourself as unreasonable if you list handles as a strength for Deng against Odom. Odom is one of the best, if not the best, handlers of the ball 6'9" or better. |
we are going to have to disagree. LO in theory dating back to his early years could handle. LO of today has dropped off. Now if you are comparing LO's handles to the likes of DHoward, CBosh etc I might agree, but thats a pretty low bar.
However disagreeing is great for MB's |
Deng isnt even considered a very good handling forward, much less in Odom's class. Odom is not the fast break-ing slender small forward that he was with the Clippers, but he is still the best big man handler in the league (I can't think of a better one, so please list them if you can).
Not to knock Deng. He would be a great fit at the SF for the Lakers, and I would trade Odom for Deng instantly. |
so whats the argument? Lo can handle in general, or handle for a "big man". I would take deng all day handeling the ball over a "big man".
As well. deng brought the ball as much as LO has for us with the bulls. He equalled in Chi town as an outlet as what LO equalled here.
IMO as a player I prefer dengs handles. Thats all. we both agree deng is better for our needs |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fansincemagic
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 11051
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
I knew Chicago would have problems resigning all these guys they hyped up as untouchable. They go from not dealing Deng for Kobe, but then won't give him a double digit long term deal? Even as bad as things are getting, I'd be shocked to see a Deng & Hinrich deal. If anything, they'll call Deng's bluff and play the year out to see what his market value really is. Gordon is the one they really messed up on, nobody wants to pay the guy 10 million to be just a shooter.
I'd love to see Deng and Hinrich in purple and gold, but I don't see them shelling out the money for both, as well as being able to deal for them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DoubleClutch
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 2712
Location: Town
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ValisJason wrote: | | im_back wrote: | | ValisJason wrote: | | im_back wrote: | | KobeDunk wrote: | | where is the LO defense in this thread? Im sure hes a better ball handler than Deng ... c'mon now! |
dengs strengths are LO's weakness and vice versa
deng:
*Excellent movement w/out ball
*excellent decsions in post
*Excellent creating his own shot
*active defender on quicker guys where his length actually is a strength
*Strong handles
*young
LO:
*RB's
*Back up 4
*taller than deng |
You paint yourself as unreasonable if you list handles as a strength for Deng against Odom. Odom is one of the best, if not the best, handlers of the ball 6'9" or better. |
we are going to have to disagree. LO in theory dating back to his early years could handle. LO of today has dropped off. Now if you are comparing LO's handles to the likes of DHoward, CBosh etc I might agree, but thats a pretty low bar.
However disagreeing is great for MB's |
Deng isnt even considered a very good handling forward, much less in Odom's class. Odom is not the fast break-ing slender small forward that he was with the Clippers, but he is still the best big man handler in the league (I can't think of a better one, so please list them if you can).
Not to knock Deng. He would be a great fit at the SF for the Lakers, and I would trade Odom for Deng instantly. |
Lebron is a pretty good ball handler for being 6'9" and 250 lbs.
(That's according to his own measurements within the last year)
Also, Kevin Durant - 6'9" 225lbs
I'm just sayin' . . .
_________________
“This goes far beyond paychecks” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ValisJason
Star Player
Joined: 13 Dec 2002
Posts: 1418
Location: Los Angeles
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| The argument is that LO is a better handler / passer than Deng. And to list handles as a strength for Deng in comparison with Odom is, to me, the mark of someone who just unreasonably hates LO. There are plenty of weaknesses to LO's game. There are strengths as well. I think Deng is a better fit for the Lakers next year at the 3 than Odom will be, based on his combination of offensive and defensive skills. But, LO is not a useless player. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
im_back
Star Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2008
Posts: 1294
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| fansincemagic wrote: | | I knew Chicago would have problems resigning all these guys they hyped up as untouchable. |
which is what will happen to Portland. wealthy or not. However their prob will be guys wanting to be the guy.
Lakers should do everything they can to get deng. everyone but pau/AB/kobe should be made avail |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Carlos Lehder
Star Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 2739
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Deng is a mental midget |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Great One
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 3166
Location: Girl I'm Back in Spanish Town
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| RG73 wrote: | | LVLAKERFAN wrote: | We are not getting Deng
100% Pipe.
|
I fail to see how it is 100% pipe.
The Bulls have pissed off Deng. He didn't like the offer last year and they are offering even less this year and he's already given them an ultimatum. That Reisendorf has taken over the Bulls negotiations himself is probably not going to help the Bulls.
So there is a good chance Deng decides he wants out. A very good chance. So the Bulls can either let him walk at that point, or they can try to get something for him. So far we're in the realm of reality here.
So then you have to ask whether or not the Bulls would be interested in Odom, particularly long term (especially if they have no choice but losing Deng). I don't give this a high degree of happening. There will be other options on the table for the Bulls and Odom may very easily not be among the best. But that doesn't make this 100% pipe.
A disgruntled player with the leverage of being able to walk in a season is likely going to get dealt. That's a reality. Whether we have what they want and whether a deal can be worked with BYC issues is another issue altogether, but I'd hardly put this in the realm of science fiction. |
From the looks of it, the bulls could be quietly rebuilding because they are stacked with young talent. they have great young contracts that could allow them to make a run at a major player in 2010 to pair with rose. Yet there is also Deng and Gordon contracts that restrict them from that. It will be very intresting to see what happends with deng next week. If he signs again with the bulls to become a unrestricted agent next year, he will walk for sure, leaving the bulls with nothing in return.....
_________________
"Nobody hates the good ones. They hate the great ones." - KB |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ValisJason
Star Player
Joined: 13 Dec 2002
Posts: 1418
Location: Los Angeles
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| DoubleClutch wrote: | | ValisJason wrote: |
Deng isnt even considered a very good handling forward, much less in Odom's class. Odom is not the fast break-ing slender small forward that he was with the Clippers, but he is still the best big man handler in the league (I can't think of a better one, so please list them if you can).
Not to knock Deng. He would be a great fit at the SF for the Lakers, and I would trade Odom for Deng instantly. |
Lebron is a pretty good ball handler for being 6'9" and 250 lbs.
(That's according to his own measurements within the last year)
Also, Kevin Durant - 6'9" 225lbs
I'm just sayin' . . . |
You're absolutely right that LeBron is a better ball handler than LO, and he is one big man. But, I would disagree that Durant is a better ball handler than LO, though, Im not sure you were making that argument.
Last edited by ValisJason on Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tamakin
Star Player
Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 2000
Location: Torrance
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:56 am Post subject: Re: Lakers in the Mix for Deng |
|
|
| Great One wrote: |
Deng is the perfect complementary player next to Kobe at
the 3, his "Pippen". If you recall he is also the player the Kobster vetoed,
when he was involved in any trade to the Lakers in Last year offseason
fiasco. He is young and Killed it in the playoffs last year, and would excel
next to Bynum.
Bynum
Pau
Deng
Kobe
Fisher
get it done Mitch!!!!!! |
WAAAAAACK. Deng sucks. No thanks.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LVLAKERFAN
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 5347
Location: United States
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| RG73 wrote: | | LVLAKERFAN wrote: | We are not getting Deng
100% Pipe.
|
I fail to see how it is 100% pipe.
The Bulls have pissed off Deng. He didn't like the offer last year and they are offering even less this year and he's already given them an ultimatum. That Reisendorf has taken over the Bulls negotiations himself is probably not going to help the Bulls.
So there is a good chance Deng decides he wants out. A very good chance. So the Bulls can either let him walk at that point, or they can try to get something for him. So far we're in the realm of reality here.
So then you have to ask whether or not the Bulls would be interested in Odom, particularly long term (especially if they have no choice but losing Deng). I don't give this a high degree of happening. There will be other options on the table for the Bulls and Odom may very easily not be among the best. But that doesn't make this 100% pipe.
A disgruntled player with the leverage of being able to walk in a season is likely going to get dealt. That's a reality. Whether we have what they want and whether a deal can be worked with BYC issues is another issue altogether, but I'd hardly put this in the realm of science fiction. |
We are not going to get him for Odom. Other teams have more to offer and could make a better offer and handle his salary.
_________________
SCHROEDER/CARUSO/COOK
MATTHEWS/KCP/THT
LEBRON/KUZMA/BABYGIANIS
AD/MORRIS/DUDLEY
GASOL/HARRELL/TINKLE
Coachs:Vogel/Kidd |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
24KaratGold
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 17350
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Has anyone actually watched Deng for more than 5 games or have a scouting report on him? What's his defense and shooting like? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DoubleClutch
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 2712
Location: Town
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BGB wrote: | A lineup of:
PG: Derek Fisher / Jordan Farmar
SG: Kobe Bryant / Sasha Vujacic / Coby Karl
SF: Luol Deng / Trevor Ariza / Luke Walton
PF: Pau Gasol / Vladimir Radmanovic
C: Andrew Bynum / Chris Mihm
would probably makes us the title favorites, but we have two gaping holes. A backup 4 and backup 5. With Rad and Mihm as our backups, an injury to either Gasol or Bynum and we may be in trouble.
I'm going to look into the intricacies of the BYC clause and see if I can get a deal that works mathematically. I do think that an Odom/Mihm/'Cats Pick/Future 1st for Deng/Gooden deal may be something the Bulls consider. |
That's a good lineup, but I think our deal would need to be a bit sweeter to entice the Bulls to trade Deng, rather than just keep him for the year and try again next summer. Odom is in his last year and there's no guarantee he resigns with them.
I'm thinking something like Odom, Farmar, Ariza and a couple second round picks for Deng and Gooden. I don't know how the BYC would affect the extra pieces needed, but I can see Chicago wanting Farmar as a rookie scale backup that would give them flexibility to trade Hinrich in a separate deal. Ariza is young talent to try to plug Deng's hole.
Getting Deng and Gooden fills our Starting SF and backup PF positions. Losing Farmar creates a need at backup PG. Perhaps Miami would be interested in a Walton for Banks swap. Otherwise, try to grab whatever vet is out there and hope Fish can play 35 mpg. If we could get Kwame back for cheap we might be able to trade Mihm's expiring deal for a backup PG.
Bottom line, I don't see Chicago doing a deal unless Farmar is included, at a minimum, and probably Ariza too.
_________________
“This goes far beyond paychecks” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lakers 71-72
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 5059
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
Here's a problem.
The worst that can happen to Chicago is that Deng can walk away in 2009 and Chicago gets nothing.
But the Lakers can put the Bulls in the same situation. Lamar can walk away in the summer of `09 and the Bulls get nothing.
So, a lot is riding on whether Lamar wants to play in Chicago past 2009. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kaoss128
Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 13058
Location: Morgantown, WV
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Laker_Leo
Star Player
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 6114
Location: Down the Hill from the Griffith Observatory
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
Deng and Hinrich. 
I'd love it but it's pure Hollywood Fantasy.
_________________
And always remember my brother, one fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish, knick knack, paddy whack, give a dog a bone, two thousand, zero, zero, party, oops out of time. My bacon smellin' fine. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Megatron24
Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 10342
Location: Irvine, CA
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
DAMN!
_________________
16 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Karmaloop
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 2387
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Lakers 71-72 wrote: | Here's a problem.
The worst that can happen to Chicago is that Deng can walk away in 2009 and Chicago gets nothing.
But the Lakers can put the Bulls in the same situation. Lamar can walk away in the summer of `09 and the Bulls get nothing.
So, a lot is riding on whether Lamar wants to play in Chicago past 2009. |
Not necissarily, maybe the Bulls are looking for cap space in '09/'10.
In a Odom/Mihm for Deng/Gooden deal, Deng's starting salary would have to start at about 13 million. I propose a 5 year, 61 million dollar deal, which would have Deng's deal decrease over time with the deal being front loaded. This would help easen the burden on Buss with Bynum's extension looming. Something like 16/14/12/10/9.
_________________
| kikanga wrote: | | I'm interested in Olivia Munn. But similar to this LAL/DROZ situation. I don't think the feelings are mutual. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
im_back
Star Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2008
Posts: 1294
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
Like I noted. Deng is great at creating a shot. have to have handles for that in comparison LO is horrible at creating his own shot. Blame has to go to his handles.
thats all I was saying earlier |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
