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D Nice
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Joined: 15 Aug 2006
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 Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| OregonLakerGuy wrote: | | thereal1 wrote: | | Quote: | LO> Jefferson
LO > Smith
LO> Turk
LO> West |
Are u kidding me? I think we all should agree to disagree about LO. He has been a Laker for 4 years, and every year the Lakers organization lets the rest of the league know he is available for the right price. That alone should tell you he does not fit in the Lakers long term plans. If he was truly valued in L.A. would he be on the trading block all the time? |
You keep hearing about the Lakers must not value Odom since he is always on the block.
In reality they have not traded him even though they have gotten what many of his detractors would think were good offers.
It is certainly arguable that some on the board overvalue him, but I would argue that even more undervalue him. |
If you think Odom is better than DAVID WEST, something is wrong with you, period.
And do you really think that just because you state your opinoin in a servile manner, it makes it true. We aren't undervaluing him. But analyzing someone's VALUE as opposed to HOW GOOD THEY ARE are different sciences. Odom has a lot of value because of his expiring contract in addition to his skill level. There is no way, for example, I'd trade him for Lewis or Jamison because of the money they make. It doesn't stop them from being as good/better players.
If you really think Odom is so good, prove it in a basketball discussion. Let's see stats. Let's see some analysis. Let's not just get "he versatile, we waz winnin wit him, he got dat double dubs, he maaad underrated SON!"
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Car54
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| Critical Beatdown wrote: | | Car54 wrote: | | Critical Beatdown wrote: | | Car54 wrote: | | The difference is Deng shoots a better % |
Deng shot 40.6% eFG on jumpers last season, and Lamar shot 40.0% eFG on jumpers, that is not a significant difference, and Lamar is a better 3PT shooter (Deng has only taken 29 three-point shots the last 2 full seasons, and is a career 27% shooter from downtown; while Lamar has struggled the last two seasons from downtown and yet is still a 31% career three-point shooter). |
Stop distorting the stats Odom shot .400% while only 44% of his taken shots was jumpers. Deng on the other hand shot .406% while 61% of his shots was jumpers. That was dengs off year on top of that. 44% vs 61% which one is more likely a SF amount of attempts? |
Um, how was I distorting the stats? And how do we know this was an off-year for Deng, when he's shot much worse than that in two of his other three seasons? |
Ok I see your into l Your distorting lying I posted the season before stats where Deng shot .429% while 61% OF HIS SHOTS WAS JUMPERS!!!! I'm done discussing this because you continue to ignore FACTS. Your distorting the stats by not showing the amount of shots taken. someone can shoot 50% but only take 2 shots. Is that a fair way to judge his abilities?
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thereal1
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| OregonLakerGuy wrote: | | thereal1 wrote: | | Quote: | LO> Jefferson
LO > Smith
LO> Turk
LO> West |
Are u kidding me? I think we all should agree to disagree about LO. He has been a Laker for 4 years, and every year the Lakers organization lets the rest of the league know he is available for the right price. That alone should tell you he does not fit in the Lakers long term plans. If he was truly valued in L.A. would he be on the trading block all the time? |
You keep hearing about the Lakers must not value Odom since he is always on the block.
In reality they have not traded him even though they have gotten what many of his detractors would think were good offers.
It is certainly arguable that some on the board overvalue him, but I would argue that even more undervalue him. |
If Memphis wanted him, he would have been gone. If Gerald Wallace wanted to be in LA he would have been gone. And if Bynum wasnt come off an injury he would be gone. The only way it doesn't happen if he makes it through the reg season and is an intrical part in a championship this year. Anything less and he is gone. |
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Critical Beatdown
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | Critical Beatdown wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | In Game two, it was the Powe/Odom matchup. |
Lamar was not matched up with Powe when Leon went off against us, but nice try. |
http://youtube.com/watch?v=A2R8fN_urRQ
Who is guarding him? ODOM/TURIAF |
Powe was Ronny's man.
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Per 100 possessions, we're winning 118-102 with LO on the floor, and losing 109-111 without him. (updated: 4/1/09; source: 82games.com) |
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LakerJam
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| D Nice wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | im_back wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | , for the most part, is that LO is a jack of all trades, but a master of none. |
which ultimately equals a bench player/6th man |
In other words: Not a starter. |
I don't know how to respond to that... LO is not a starter in this league? Seriously? I know you two don't like LO, but don't need to exaggerate like that.... just makes any of your subsequent arguments that much weaker knowing they come from an irrational bias. |
True. It is hard to make a case that LO is anything less than a top 12-15 PF as a starter. In fact, somebody give me a list of starting PF's that would not be traded for LO on a performance basis. I suspect that list is shorter than you think. |
1. Amare
2. Duncan
3. Garnett
4. Brand
5. Dirk
6. Gasol
7. Bosh
8. West
9. Boozer
10. Jefferson
11. Aldrige
12. Jamison
13. Smith
14. Turkoglu
And of course, this doesn’t include Wallace or O’Neal, both of whom are PFs playing Center out of need. It's also likely that even as a rookie, Beasley outplays Lamar. In other words, on about half the teams in the NBA, Odom isn't a starter if you pigeonhole him to PF. |
Your last 3 are pretty ridiculous. Seriously. |
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D Nice
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| Critical Beatdown wrote: | People are biased towards scoring, because starting from about the 10th or so guy on that list we're looking at people who score more points than Lamar, even though many of them don't rebound or defend as well as him, and none of them probably pass or handle as well as him either.
Hedo is not a PF either, Stan Van Gundy would love to have Lamar back, don't kid yourself. |
If you think he'd swap THIS Hedo for Lamar, the only one joking is you.
Hedo was the team's BEST perimeter scorer, BEST decision maker from the perimeter, and most importantly, THEIR CLOSER. Those things are invaluable, and Hedo's offensive game is so much more complete than Odom's it is sad, especially considering who is the more gifted (physically, talent-wise) if the two players. Last year? Sure. But Hedo was the MIP for a reason, he became a bonafied STUD this season.
And you can chirp about him not being a PF, but when you are guarding a position, that's your damn position, and Lewis/Hedo switched off guarding PFs, meaning that for stretches one of the other was the starting PF. That's the criteria used, and the list was balanced because while I had guys who were playing 4 possibly out of need, it did NOT include F/Cs like Wallace/JO, who play/will play center out of need.
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Last edited by D Nice on Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:35 am; edited 2 times in total |
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thereal1
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| I have no idea why anyone is still discussing his PF ability, when he will play the majority of his minutes for the Lakers at the 3. As long as Gasol and Bynum are healthy Lamar will get minimal time at the 4. The power forward discussion really isn't relevant anymore. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| D Nice wrote: | | Critical Beatdown wrote: | People are biased towards scoring, because starting from about the 10th or so guy on that list we're looking at people who score more points than Lamar, even though many of them don't rebound or defend as well as him, and none of them probably pass or handle as well as him either.
Hedo is not a PF either, Stan Van Gundy would love to have Lamar back, don't kid yourself. |
If you think he'd swap THIS Hedo for Lamar, the only one joking is you.
Hedo was the team's BEST perimeter scorer, BEST decision maker from the perimeter, and most importantly, THEIR CLOSER. Those things are invaluable, and Hedo's offensive game is so much more complete than Odom's it is sad, especially considering who is the more gifted (physically, talent-wise) if the two players. Last year? Sure. But Hedo was the MIP for a reason, he became a bonafied STUD this season.
And you can chirp about him not being a PF, but when you are guarding a position, that's your damn position, and Lewis/Hedo switched off guarding PFs, meaning that for stretches one of the other was the starting PF. That's the criteria used, and the list was balanced because while I had guys who were playing 4 possibly out of need, it did NOT include F/Cs like Wallace/JO, who play/will play center out of need. |
again, all you did was prove my point that LO is a top 12-15 starting PF in this league, by your calculations as well as mine 
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JUST-MING
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| thereal1 wrote: | | Most of us that think Lamar should be moved for Deng don't hate LO. We want what is best for the team. If we all just rooted for the name on the front of the jersey, instead of the name on the back, I'm sure most of us would agree that Deng is clearly the better option at the 3. It's business, but a lot of posters have their emotion involved when it comes to LO, and that is what clouds judgment. |
Big Bynum is 21. Deng is 23. He would fit our future plans. Next 10 years. Deng is a better small forward than Odom, even at 23. He is a better shooter and defender. Odom is 29 years old, 30 next year, and he is still thought of as a project; Kupchak said he's still developing. He isn't a shooter. Regardless of the percentages, just refer to HOT ZONES.
Compare to Deng, HOTZONES
Last edited by JUST-MING on Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Critical Beatdown
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| Car54 wrote: | | Ok I see your into l Your distorting lying I posted the season before stats where Deng shot .429% while 61% OF HIS SHOTS WAS JUMPERS!!!! I'm done discussing this because you continue to ignore FACTS. Your distorting the stats by not showing the amount of shots taken. someone can shoot 50% but only take 2 shots. Is that a fair way to judge his abilities? |
I don't know what the hell you're talking about. Deng shot 35.5% on jumpers his first season, 38.4% his second season, 42.6% his third season, and 40.6% last season. He is not a good jump shooter, whether or not takes an addition 10-15% of his shots as jumpers more than Lamar does (which is good for us because Lamar's overall FG% is a lot higher because he is able to get more shots inside).
If anything, it shows Lamar is smart enough not to shoot as many of them, because taking mostly shots you only convert at 40% isn't really smart basketball, and Deng clearly wasn't as effective last season as he was the season before, so did he just overachieve that one season and is a bit overrated right now? Because he was not worth a near-max contract last season, yet that's the kind of money he wants.
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Per 100 possessions, we're winning 118-102 with LO on the floor, and losing 109-111 without him. (updated: 4/1/09; source: 82games.com) |
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D Nice
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| Lakerjam wrote: | | Your last 3 are pretty ridiculous. Seriously |
You need to get with it. There is an NBA outside of the Lakers. Seriously.
Jamison is a comparable defensive player who DWARFS LO on offense.
Smith is a comparable offensive player who DWARDS LO on defense.
Josh Smith: 16/8/3 with 3 blocks and 1.5 steals
Lamar Odom: 14/10/3.5 with 1 block and 1 steal
Antawn Jamison: 21/10/1.5 with .5 blocks and 1 steal
Lamar Odom: 14/10/3.5 with 1 block and 1 steal
And you're off your rocker if you think Odom would have done better as the primary perimeter option for Orlando as opposed to Turkoglu. Turk stretched the floor for Dwight Howard, was their go-to guy in the pick/roll down the stretch, was the teams CLOSER/DECISION MAKER when it counted. Not many players in the league were as good as hedo in crunch time. As for the #s
Hedo Turkoglu: 20/6/5 with .5 blocks and 1 steal
Lamar Odom: 14/10/3.5 with 1 block and 1 steal
Oh, and unlike Odom, Smith and Jamison didn't have the luxury of playing next to an incredibly dominant player, hence some efficiency drop-off. You look at Odom's shooting %s when he isn't with Kobe, and they are pretty bad, especially considering UNLIKE Jamison, he doesn't have 3 points boosting his efg% and normally isn't a consistent FT shooter.
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Jeffs
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | D Nice wrote: | | Critical Beatdown wrote: | People are biased towards scoring, because starting from about the 10th or so guy on that list we're looking at people who score more points than Lamar, even though many of them don't rebound or defend as well as him, and none of them probably pass or handle as well as him either.
Hedo is not a PF either, Stan Van Gundy would love to have Lamar back, don't kid yourself. |
If you think he'd swap THIS Hedo for Lamar, the only one joking is you.
Hedo was the team's BEST perimeter scorer, BEST decision maker from the perimeter, and most importantly, THEIR CLOSER. Those things are invaluable, and Hedo's offensive game is so much more complete than Odom's it is sad, especially considering who is the more gifted (physically, talent-wise) if the two players. Last year? Sure. But Hedo was the MIP for a reason, he became a bonafied STUD this season.
And you can chirp about him not being a PF, but when you are guarding a position, that's your damn position, and Lewis/Hedo switched off guarding PFs, meaning that for stretches one of the other was the starting PF. That's the criteria used, and the list was balanced because while I had guys who were playing 4 possibly out of need, it did NOT include F/Cs like Wallace/JO, who play/will play center out of need. |
again, all you did was prove my point that LO is a top 12-15 starting PF in this league, by your calculations as well as mine |
Which makes him more or less an average starting PF in this league. Not saying too much.
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Jeffs
I feel like I just watched someone TRULY give 100%. Not the BS I'm-gonna-give-a-110%-just-like-everyone-else-says platitudes, but someone that went until he just....broke. - GT |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| Jeffs wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | D Nice wrote: | | Critical Beatdown wrote: | People are biased towards scoring, because starting from about the 10th or so guy on that list we're looking at people who score more points than Lamar, even though many of them don't rebound or defend as well as him, and none of them probably pass or handle as well as him either.
Hedo is not a PF either, Stan Van Gundy would love to have Lamar back, don't kid yourself. |
If you think he'd swap THIS Hedo for Lamar, the only one joking is you.
Hedo was the team's BEST perimeter scorer, BEST decision maker from the perimeter, and most importantly, THEIR CLOSER. Those things are invaluable, and Hedo's offensive game is so much more complete than Odom's it is sad, especially considering who is the more gifted (physically, talent-wise) if the two players. Last year? Sure. But Hedo was the MIP for a reason, he became a bonafied STUD this season.
And you can chirp about him not being a PF, but when you are guarding a position, that's your damn position, and Lewis/Hedo switched off guarding PFs, meaning that for stretches one of the other was the starting PF. That's the criteria used, and the list was balanced because while I had guys who were playing 4 possibly out of need, it did NOT include F/Cs like Wallace/JO, who play/will play center out of need. |
again, all you did was prove my point that LO is a top 12-15 starting PF in this league, by your calculations as well as mine |
Which makes him more or less an average starting PF in this league. Not saying too much. |
Exactly, but it was in reference to people saying he was no more than a bench player. A middle of the pack starter is >>>>than a bench player.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Critical Beatdown
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | thereal1 wrote: | | Most of us that think Lamar should be moved for Deng don't hate LO. We want what is best for the team. If we all just rooted for the name on the front of the jersey, instead of the name on the back, I'm sure most of us would agree that Deng is clearly the better option at the 3. It's business, but a lot of posters have their emotion involved when it comes to LO, and that is what clouds judgment. |
Big Bynum is 21. Deng is 23. He would fit our future plans. Next 10 years. Deng is a better small forward than Odom, even at 23. He is a better shooter and defender. Odom is 29 years old, 30 next year, and he is still thought of as a project; Kupchak said he's still developing. He isn't a shooter. Regardless of the percentages, just refer to HOT ZONES.
Compare to Deng, HOTZONES |
First the Powe video showing Powe was not Lamar's man, then you post these links to the hot zone, you would make an awful defense attorney. As for Deng, it shouldn't even be called hot zones, more like cold zones (or mediocre zones).
Deng is overpriced if you ask me, we already have a Big 3 making max or near-max, we don't need to add another guy at that level of pay who hasn't even proven he's worth that kind of money or can make a jump shot.
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Per 100 possessions, we're winning 118-102 with LO on the floor, and losing 109-111 without him. (updated: 4/1/09; source: 82games.com)
Last edited by Critical Beatdown on Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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thereal1
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Posts: 2329
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | thereal1 wrote: | | Most of us that think Lamar should be moved for Deng don't hate LO. We want what is best for the team. If we all just rooted for the name on the front of the jersey, instead of the name on the back, I'm sure most of us would agree that Deng is clearly the better option at the 3. It's business, but a lot of posters have their emotion involved when it comes to LO, and that is what clouds judgment. |
Big Bynum is 21. Deng is 23. He would fit our future plans. Next 10 years. Deng is a better small forward than Odom, even at 23. He is a better shooter and defender. Odom is 29 years old, 30 next year, and he is still thought of as a project; Kupchak said he's still developing. He isn't a shooter. Regardless of the percentages, just refer to HOT ZONES.
Compare to Deng, HOTZONES |
Did u actually read my post? It clearly states Deng is the better option not LO. |
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OregonLakerGuy
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Joined: 23 Feb 2005
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Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| D Nice wrote: | | OregonLakerGuy wrote: | | thereal1 wrote: | | Quote: | LO> Jefferson
LO > Smith
LO> Turk
LO> West |
Are u kidding me? I think we all should agree to disagree about LO. He has been a Laker for 4 years, and every year the Lakers organization lets the rest of the league know he is available for the right price. That alone should tell you he does not fit in the Lakers long term plans. If he was truly valued in L.A. would he be on the trading block all the time? |
You keep hearing about the Lakers must not value Odom since he is always on the block.
In reality they have not traded him even though they have gotten what many of his detractors would think were good offers.
It is certainly arguable that some on the board overvalue him, but I would argue that even more undervalue him. |
If you think Odom is better than DAVID WEST, something is wrong with you, period.
And do you really think that just because you state your opinoin in a servile manner, it makes it true. We aren't undervaluing him. But analyzing someone's VALUE as opposed to HOW GOOD THEY ARE are different sciences. Odom has a lot of value because of his expiring contract in addition to his skill level. There is no way, for example, I'd trade him for Lewis or Jamison because of the money they make. It doesn't stop them from being as good/better players.
If you really think Odom is so good, prove it in a basketball discussion. Let's see stats. Let's see some analysis. Let's not just get "he versatile, we waz winnin wit him, he got dat double dubs, he maaad underrated SON!" |
Hmmm
Servile
ADJECTIVE:
Abjectly submissive; slavish.
Nope.
I would call it polite.
There are a lot of stats being thrown around and I am not feeling too strongly one way or the other yet, although I tend to favor keeping what we have in general. Deng is a very good player and I would not be upset if we got him since that would mean that our front office thought he gave us the best chance. Converse to that, if they keep Odom it means that he gives them the best chance.
There is a ton of animosity for Odom which to my way of thinking is plain irrational. It baffles me. Lamar is a fine player. |
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Critical Beatdown
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| thereal1 wrote: | | I have no idea why anyone is still discussing his PF ability, when he will play the majority of his minutes for the Lakers at the 3. As long as Gasol and Bynum are healthy Lamar will get minimal time at the 4. The power forward discussion really isn't relevant anymore. |
After letting Ronny go, you can be sure that Lamar is now our primary backup PF along with starting SF, and Drew is not going to play more than 36 minutes per, if that, and Pau is not going to play all 48 minutes, so Lamar will likely split time at both forward spots unless Rad suddenly and surprisingly demonstrates that he can hold his own at that position (I'm not counting on that, Rad is really a SF who can be utilized at times as a PF in offensive-minded smaller lineups, with certain defensive and rebounding weaknesses that result).
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Per 100 possessions, we're winning 118-102 with LO on the floor, and losing 109-111 without him. (updated: 4/1/09; source: 82games.com)
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im_back
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: |
Exactly, but it was in reference to people saying he was no more than a bench player. A middle of the pack starter is >>>>than a bench player. |
When I said bench player it was in response to the jack of all master of nil comment. Thats what bench/6th men are for. Spot play various positions giving you a little bit of everything.
Why not get a master at the 3 instead of a 3 that isnt. thats all. |
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Jeffs
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | Jeffs wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | D Nice wrote: | | Critical Beatdown wrote: | People are biased towards scoring, because starting from about the 10th or so guy on that list we're looking at people who score more points than Lamar, even though many of them don't rebound or defend as well as him, and none of them probably pass or handle as well as him either.
Hedo is not a PF either, Stan Van Gundy would love to have Lamar back, don't kid yourself. |
If you think he'd swap THIS Hedo for Lamar, the only one joking is you.
Hedo was the team's BEST perimeter scorer, BEST decision maker from the perimeter, and most importantly, THEIR CLOSER. Those things are invaluable, and Hedo's offensive game is so much more complete than Odom's it is sad, especially considering who is the more gifted (physically, talent-wise) if the two players. Last year? Sure. But Hedo was the MIP for a reason, he became a bonafied STUD this season.
And you can chirp about him not being a PF, but when you are guarding a position, that's your damn position, and Lewis/Hedo switched off guarding PFs, meaning that for stretches one of the other was the starting PF. That's the criteria used, and the list was balanced because while I had guys who were playing 4 possibly out of need, it did NOT include F/Cs like Wallace/JO, who play/will play center out of need. |
again, all you did was prove my point that LO is a top 12-15 starting PF in this league, by your calculations as well as mine |
Which makes him more or less an average starting PF in this league. Not saying too much. |
Exactly, but it was in reference to people saying he was no more than a bench player. A middle of the pack starter is >>>>than a bench player. |
Oh, no doubt. Anyone saying LO isn't a starter in this league is either exaggerating badly or is just blinded by their hate for him (wow, I sound like Shoes! ).
I could, however, see the argument being made that the Lakers specifically are better off with LO coming off the bench if no trade happens. If he ends up starting, the Lakers will dominate the glass, but I think a lot of teams will give them the "Rondo treatment" like LA gave Boston in the finals. Pau and Andrew will get constant doubles (as will Kobe when he puts the ball on the floor), while Lamar is dared to shoot.
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Jeffs
I feel like I just watched someone TRULY give 100%. Not the BS I'm-gonna-give-a-110%-just-like-everyone-else-says platitudes, but someone that went until he just....broke. - GT |
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thereal1
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Posts: 2329
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| Critical Beatdown wrote: | | thereal1 wrote: | | I have no idea why anyone is still discussing his PF ability, when he will play the majority of his minutes for the Lakers at the 3. As long as Gasol and Bynum are healthy Lamar will get minimal time at the 4. The power forward discussion really isn't relevant anymore. |
After letting Ronny go, you can be sure that Lamar is now our primary backup PF along with starting SF, and Drew is not going to play more than 36 minutes per, if that, and Pau is not going to play all 48 minutes, so Lamar will likely split time at both forward spots unless Rad suddenly and surprisingly demonstrates that he can hold his own at that position (I'm not counting on that, Rad is really a SF who can be utilized at times as a PF in offensive-minded smaller lineups, with certain defensive and rebounding weaknesses that result). |
At this time Rad is going to split those minutes with LO based on the opponent. Because we know Luke will get his behind LO at the 3, Phil will make sure of that. |
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Critical Beatdown
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| D Nice wrote: | | And you're off your rocker if you think Odom would have done better as the primary perimeter option for Orlando as opposed to Turkoglu. |
And you're off your rocker if you don't think that Stan Van Gundy would have started Lamar at power forward. Stan loves Lamar's game, and Orlando would have been much better on both ends, and they would still would have been able to find enough minutes for Turko, who is a SF.
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Per 100 possessions, we're winning 118-102 with LO on the floor, and losing 109-111 without him. (updated: 4/1/09; source: 82games.com) |
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JUST-MING
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| thereal1 wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | thereal1 wrote: | | Most of us that think Lamar should be moved for Deng don't hate LO. We want what is best for the team. If we all just rooted for the name on the front of the jersey, instead of the name on the back, I'm sure most of us would agree that Deng is clearly the better option at the 3. It's business, but a lot of posters have their emotion involved when it comes to LO, and that is what clouds judgment. |
Big Bynum is 21. Deng is 23. He would fit our future plans. Next 10 years. Deng is a better small forward than Odom, even at 23. He is a better shooter and defender. Odom is 29 years old, 30 next year, and he is still thought of as a project; Kupchak said he's still developing. He isn't a shooter. Regardless of the percentages, just refer to HOT ZONES.
Compare to Deng, HOTZONES |
Did u actually read my post? It clearly states Deng is the better option not LO. |
I gave my input as to why I agree with you. Frankly, I'm tired of talking about Casper vs. Deng. |
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Fallout
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| Critical Beatdown wrote: |
After letting Ronny go, you can be sure that Lamar is now our primary backup PF along with starting SF, and Drew is not going to play more than 36 minutes per, if that, and Pau is not going to play all 48 minutes, so Lamar will likely split time at both forward spots unless Rad suddenly and surprisingly demonstrates that he can hold his own at that position (I'm not counting on that, Rad is really a SF who can be utilized at times as a PF in offensive-minded smaller lineups, with certain defensive and rebounding weaknesses that result). |
Sure, if you're assuming that the Lakers are not making any moves now, which is certainly not the case with the RonRon and Deng trade talks between teams.
The goal is to get key starters, then work on getting backups. Not the other way around to figure out who can backup someone else's role.
If Lakers can't get players such as Deng or even RonRon, and no one better is out, then makes sense for them to stay put and keep LO. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| Jeffs wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | Jeffs wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | D Nice wrote: | | Critical Beatdown wrote: | People are biased towards scoring, because starting from about the 10th or so guy on that list we're looking at people who score more points than Lamar, even though many of them don't rebound or defend as well as him, and none of them probably pass or handle as well as him either.
Hedo is not a PF either, Stan Van Gundy would love to have Lamar back, don't kid yourself. |
If you think he'd swap THIS Hedo for Lamar, the only one joking is you.
Hedo was the team's BEST perimeter scorer, BEST decision maker from the perimeter, and most importantly, THEIR CLOSER. Those things are invaluable, and Hedo's offensive game is so much more complete than Odom's it is sad, especially considering who is the more gifted (physically, talent-wise) if the two players. Last year? Sure. But Hedo was the MIP for a reason, he became a bonafied STUD this season.
And you can chirp about him not being a PF, but when you are guarding a position, that's your damn position, and Lewis/Hedo switched off guarding PFs, meaning that for stretches one of the other was the starting PF. That's the criteria used, and the list was balanced because while I had guys who were playing 4 possibly out of need, it did NOT include F/Cs like Wallace/JO, who play/will play center out of need. |
again, all you did was prove my point that LO is a top 12-15 starting PF in this league, by your calculations as well as mine |
Which makes him more or less an average starting PF in this league. Not saying too much. |
Exactly, but it was in reference to people saying he was no more than a bench player. A middle of the pack starter is >>>>than a bench player. |
Oh, no doubt. Anyone saying LO isn't a starter in this league is either exaggerating badly or is just blinded by their hate for him (wow, I sound like Shoes! ).
I could, however, see the argument being made that the Lakers specifically are better off with LO coming off the bench if no trade happens. If he ends up starting, the Lakers will dominate the glass, but I think a lot of teams will give them the "Rondo treatment" like LA gave Boston in the finals. Pau and Andrew will get constant doubles (as will Kobe when he puts the ball on the floor), while Lamar is dared to shoot. |
Totally agree. I like the idea of being able to bring him in at either fwd position. But do it when the matchups are in our favor. No sense letting the other team know that they can collapse right from the get-go. I can see him getting 20-25 mpg at the 4, and 8-10 at the 3, in the right matchup situations.
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Critical Beatdown
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: |
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You should quit while your behind Ming, did you even look at those "hot" zones for Deng or see that Powe was Ronny's man on that video you posted?
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Per 100 possessions, we're winning 118-102 with LO on the floor, and losing 109-111 without him. (updated: 4/1/09; source: 82games.com) |
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