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im_back
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 Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| Critical Beatdown wrote: | | D Nice wrote: | | And you're off your rocker if you think Odom would have done better as the primary perimeter option for Orlando as opposed to Turkoglu. |
And you're off your rocker if you don't think that Stan Van Gundy would have started Lamar at power forward. Stan loves Lamar's game, SF. |
says who? Does stan love Turks game more? What we know is that Turk opens it up for DH and whats his face because NO ONE is leaving him open. Cant be said about LO. In fact that is the problem most are predicting here.
However would love to read where stan prefers LO over turk |
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D Nice
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| Critical Beatdown wrote: | | D Nice wrote: | | And you're off your rocker if you think Odom would have done better as the primary perimeter option for Orlando as opposed to Turkoglu. |
And you're off your rocker if you don't think that Stan Van Gundy would have started Lamar at power forward. Stan loves Lamar's game, and Orlando would have been much better on both ends, and they would still would have been able to find enough minutes for Turko, who is a SF. |
Umm, of course he would have loved to have Lamar for free, that isn't the issue. We're discussing who is the better player, so when you say Stan would love to have Odom, it has to be assumed you meant in place of someone else. You can't just change your argument out of the freaking blue. 
Then again, when you've got no case, maybe that's the best thing to do.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| im_back wrote: | | Critical Beatdown wrote: | | D Nice wrote: | | And you're off your rocker if you think Odom would have done better as the primary perimeter option for Orlando as opposed to Turkoglu. |
And you're off your rocker if you don't think that Stan Van Gundy would have started Lamar at power forward. Stan loves Lamar's game, SF. |
says who? Does stan love Turks game more? What we know is that Turk opens it up for DH and whats his face because NO ONE is leaving him open. Cant be said about LO. In fact that is the problem most are predicting here.
However would love to read where stan prefers LO over turk |
Call me crazy, but I think Orl would give us Turk for LO (salaries don't make this possible) if they could. Neither Turk nor Lewis can guard a 4 anywhere near LO's ability, and they would love the boards.
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JUST-MING
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | After letting Ronny go, you can be sure that Lamar is now our primary backup PF along with starting SF |
Backups?
Bryant and Gasol will play nearly 35-40 minutes. That leaves 8-13 minutes of bench mod. Bynum is expected to play at least 20 minutes, but with his poor conditioning, you never know. Pray for 35-40. If it all averages, you might see a quarter of Odom at PF. But realize that he's most prone to injury at PF. And he's supposed to be losing weight. |
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Critical Beatdown
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:52 am Post subject: |
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Stan Van Gundy would have started Lamar Odom at PF this past season, plain and simple, and would have found a way to still get Turko and Rashard as many minutes as possible. Van Gundy loves Lamar's game, and coached him with the Heat. There is no question in my mind that Lamar would have been their starting PF, and that has nothing to do with whether he's a better offensive player than Turko.
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Per 100 possessions, we're winning 118-102 with LO on the floor, and losing 109-111 without him. (updated: 4/1/09; source: 82games.com) |
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JUST-MING
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| Critical Beatdown wrote: | | Stan Van Gundy would have started Lamar Odom at PF this past season, plain and simple |
It's too bad that Florida teams don't play in the West. |
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | 12. Jamison
13. Smith
14. Turkoglu
And of course, this doesn’t include Wallace or O’Neal, both of whom are PFs playing Center out of need. It's also likely that even as a rookie, Beasley outplays Lamar. In other words, on about half the teams in the NBA, Odom isn't a starter if you pigeonhole him to PF.
Your last 3 are pretty ridiculous. Seriously. |
I would love someone to argue that Odom is ridiculously better than Antwan Jamison, Josh Smith or Hedo for that matter. |
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im_back
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | im_back wrote: | | Critical Beatdown wrote: | | D Nice wrote: | | And you're off your rocker if you think Odom would have done better as the primary perimeter option for Orlando as opposed to Turkoglu. |
And you're off your rocker if you don't think that Stan Van Gundy would have started Lamar at power forward. Stan loves Lamar's game, SF. |
says who? Does stan love Turks game more? What we know is that Turk opens it up for DH and whats his face because NO ONE is leaving him open. Cant be said about LO. In fact that is the problem most are predicting here.
However would love to read where stan prefers LO over turk |
Call me crazy, but I think Orl would give us Turk for LO (salaries don't make this possible) if they could. Neither Turk nor Lewis can guard a 4 anywhere near LO's ability, and they would love the boards. |
I disagree but both of us are guessing so its moot |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| im_back wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | im_back wrote: | | Critical Beatdown wrote: | | D Nice wrote: | | And you're off your rocker if you think Odom would have done better as the primary perimeter option for Orlando as opposed to Turkoglu. |
And you're off your rocker if you don't think that Stan Van Gundy would have started Lamar at power forward. Stan loves Lamar's game, SF. |
says who? Does stan love Turks game more? What we know is that Turk opens it up for DH and whats his face because NO ONE is leaving him open. Cant be said about LO. In fact that is the problem most are predicting here.
However would love to read where stan prefers LO over turk |
Call me crazy, but I think Orl would give us Turk for LO (salaries don't make this possible) if they could. Neither Turk nor Lewis can guard a 4 anywhere near LO's ability, and they would love the boards. |
I disagree but both of us are guessing so its moot |
Fair enough 
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I'm The Dan
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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Odom is better than the three you listed.
Josh Smith is so over rated it's funny. He's just an athletic freak. He doesn't have an offensive game. He lead the league in blocks one year, which is impressive, but other than weak side defense he isn't a great defender. I know people will equate him to being a great lock down defender because he gets blocks, but that isn't the case. People are blinded by stats.
Antwan Jamison is a good player. I'd consider them equal (Odom) if I were to compare. They both have a nice defensive game and are under rated defensively. 'Twan has a better jumper and post up game, but Odom has the better play making skills.
As for Turkoglu, I think he was just thrown in there by the Odom haters to get a rise out of people. Anyone who honestly believes Turkoglu is better than Odom needs to be shot. Seriously.
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The End Game
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| im_back wrote: | | Critical Beatdown wrote: | | D Nice wrote: | | And you're off your rocker if you think Odom would have done better as the primary perimeter option for Orlando as opposed to Turkoglu. |
And you're off your rocker if you don't think that Stan Van Gundy would have started Lamar at power forward. Stan loves Lamar's game, SF. |
says who? Does stan love Turks game more? What we know is that Turk opens it up for DH and whats his face because NO ONE is leaving him open. Cant be said about LO. In fact that is the problem most are predicting here.
However would love to read where stan prefers LO over turk |
Stan does love Odom, but I think Turkoglu was essential to the Magic's season. He was their primary perimeter playmaker and also their first option in late game situations.
In fact I don't believe Odom would start at power forward either for the Magic because not only did they dish out all that money for Rashard Lewis but they really value Lewis' ability to shoot outside which gives Howard room to operate in the paint. Odom can't provide the threat of the 3 ball like Rashard can. |
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im_back
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm The Dan wrote: |
As for Turkoglu, I think he was just thrown in there by the Odom haters to get a rise out of people. Anyone who honestly believes Turkoglu is better than Odom needs to be shot. Seriously. |
why? more points. More assists. decents RB's. opens the floor better. has good handles. cant be argued how huge he was for his team. not bad defensively |
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Critical Beatdown
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| The End Game wrote: | Stan does love Odom, but I think Turkoglu was essential to the Magic's season. He was their primary perimeter playmaker and also their first option in late game situations.
In fact I don't believe Odom would start at power forward either for the Magic because not only did they dish out all that money for Rashard Lewis but they really value Lewis' ability to shoot outside which gives Howard room to operate in the paint. Odom can't provide the threat of the 3 ball like Rashard can. |
Rashard is a SF. Lamar would have started at PF, Rashard at SF, and Hedo would have been 6th man who played starter minutes (probably being forced to play some SG at times). Orlando is kinda fun to watch, but they really don't stand a chance to go deep in the playoffs with either Rashard or Hedo starting at PF, and that's why Stan would have started Lamar Odom at PF, because he can actually defend the position and board (scoring isn't everything).
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Per 100 possessions, we're winning 118-102 with LO on the floor, and losing 109-111 without him. (updated: 4/1/09; source: 82games.com) |
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm The Dan wrote: | Odom is better than the three you listed.
Josh Smith is so over rated it's funny. He's just an athletic freak. He doesn't have an offensive game. He lead the league in blocks one year, which is impressive, but other than weak side defense he isn't a great defender. I know people will equate him to being a great lock down defender because he gets blocks, but that isn't the case. People are blinded by stats.
Antwan Jamison is a good player. I'd consider them equal (Odom) if I were to compare. They both have a nice defensive game and are under rated defensively. 'Twan has a better jumper and post up game, but Odom has the better play making skills.
As for Turkoglu, I think he was just thrown in there by the Odom haters to get a rise out of people. Anyone who honestly believes Turkoglu is better than Odom needs to be shot. Seriously. |
Smith also gets alot of steals and rebounds. So we're looking at 17ppg / 3 blocks / 3 assists / 1.5 steals / 8 rebounds.
What are the qualities that make Odom a good defender then, if stats are thrown out? He doesn't lock anyone down.
Jamison is a far better offensive player than Odom, not even close to comparasion in fact. Odom is better defensively, but not enough to out-weigh Jamison's superior offensive ability.
Hedo is a good outside shooter. That's it and that's all. Better overall player is Odom, but better for our team? Probably Hedo. |
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Krispy Kreme
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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deng is kobe's pippen?
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im_back
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Critical Beatdown wrote: |
Rashard is a SF. Lamar would have started at PF, Rashard at SF, and Hedo would have been 6th man who played starter minutes (probably being forced to play some SG at times). Orlando is kinda fun to watch, but they really don't stand a chance to go deep in the playoffs with either Rashard or Hedo starting at PF, and that's why Stan would have started Lamar Odom at PF, because he can actually defend the position and board (scoring isn't everything). |
you dont know if lO starts. He doesnt open the floor up. he doesnt stop guys from collapsing on the big dog. He isnt the assist man Turk is.
LO's D vs Turks? are you basing that off of actually watching? Turk moves his feet better than LO. stayed with his guys as well if not better. So stop assuming to shine LO. Lo is good. turk is good. etc. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| im_back wrote: | | Critical Beatdown wrote: |
Rashard is a SF. Lamar would have started at PF, Rashard at SF, and Hedo would have been 6th man who played starter minutes (probably being forced to play some SG at times). Orlando is kinda fun to watch, but they really don't stand a chance to go deep in the playoffs with either Rashard or Hedo starting at PF, and that's why Stan would have started Lamar Odom at PF, because he can actually defend the position and board (scoring isn't everything). |
you dont know if lO starts. He doesnt open the floor up. he doesnt stop guys from collapsing on the big dog. He isnt the assist man Turk is.
LO's D vs Turks? Are we going off of perception of white vs. black or are you basing that off of actually watching? Turk moves his feet better than LO. stayed with his guys as well if not better. So stop assuming to shine LO. Lo is good. turk is good. etc. |
LO defends far better down low, out on the perimeter it's closer, but Hedo has never been known as a very good defender.
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The End Game
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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Rashard plays like a SF but Orlando had him as a PF last year with Turkoglu logging the major minutes at the SF spot.
They both can provide what LO cant (Ability to get their own shots off, plus the threat of an outside shot). Now you say Odom can defend the PF spot better than Rashard can which may be true but not a whole lot better.
Now Lewis is not on par with Odom's rebounding but the difference in rebounding wouldnt be that significant considering Superman is in the gobbling all the boards up. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| The End Game wrote: | Rashard plays like a SF but Orlando had him as a PF last year with Turkoglu logging the major minutes at the SF spot.
They both can provide what LO cant (Ability to get their own shots off, plus the threat of an outside shot). Now you say Odom can defend the PF spot better than Rashard can which may be true but not a whole lot better.
Now Lewis is not on par with Odom's rebounding but the difference in rebounding wouldnt be that significant considering Superman is in the gobbling all the boards up. |
I was speaking of LO vs. Hedo. Rashard is one of the worst defenders in the L. Simply does not try.
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The End Game
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | The End Game wrote: | Rashard plays like a SF but Orlando had him as a PF last year with Turkoglu logging the major minutes at the SF spot.
They both can provide what LO cant (Ability to get their own shots off, plus the threat of an outside shot). Now you say Odom can defend the PF spot better than Rashard can which may be true but not a whole lot better.
Now Lewis is not on par with Odom's rebounding but the difference in rebounding wouldnt be that significant considering Superman is in the gobbling all the boards up. |
I was speaking of LO vs. Hedo. Rashard is one of the worst defenders in the L. Simply does not try. |
My post was meant in response to critical beatdown's post. |
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im_back
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: |
LO defends far better down low, out on the perimeter it's closer, but Hedo has never been known as a very good defender. |
I think most guys when compared have the +'s and -"s. However I have never heard of LO being known as a good defender?
hell Pau is called soft yet he was probably our best defender in the post season considering his match ups.
Personally i dont buy the LO>Turk. however its about deng and I think most people GM's coaches included would take deng all day over LO |
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The End Game
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| By the way 24, I completly agree with your post about Turk vs Odom |
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JUST-MING
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Krispy Kreme wrote: | | deng is kobe's pippen? |
I actually thought at one point Deng could develop into a Pippen-esque player. Without the vertical jump, obviously. |
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Fallout
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| How does the Chicago fans feel about Deng? Do they even know about the LO/Deng discussion? |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | Krispy Kreme wrote: | | deng is kobe's pippen? |
I actually thought at one point Deng could develop into a Pippen-esque player. Without the vertical jump, obviously. |
More of Rich man's Calbert Cheaney
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