| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Lakerpark
Starting Rotation
Joined: 09 Nov 2002
Posts: 395
|
 Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:14 am Post subject: My theory of the Lakers' Master Plan - Sun Yue and Lamar |
|
|
Hi Everyone,
I was thinking about what the Lakers' Master plan was about what to do with some of their players. I haven't seen anyone mention all of these ideas combined so I thought I would share my thoughts.
The Plan centers around what to do with Lamar, Fisher, Farmar and Sun Yue.
Now the problem is with Lamar's fat contract, his lack of shooting ability and whether to play him at SF or PF.
I was thinking that the Lakers might do this:
1. It all centers on Sun Yue's potential and development over the next 2 years. Now I'm sure Mitch and his scouts have seen a lot more of Sun Yue than anyone on this board and has a better idea of what he is capable of and his work ethic. The could have so much faith in him like they did with Andrew Bynum that they have designed this plan.
2. If they are confident that Sun can develop quickly enough that he can fill that tall point guard spot, do the distributing, some rebounding, hit a few shots and play some defense then they can dump Lamar and his fat contract. I don't expect Sun to grab as many rebounds as Lamar does, but with Andrew Bynum back, he'll get the extra rebounds that Lamar normally will get. You gotta remember that there are only so many rebounds to be gathered. You're not going to get a front line of Bynum, Gasol and Odom all gather 10+ rebounds a game. Anyways, maybe if Lamar wasn't so concerned about his rebounding stats he would stick with his man on Defense more (especially at the 3-point line). And Sun can block shots helping out on defense. Sun also fills that desire for another interchangeable player for the Triangle.
3. So Lamar is coveted for his passing skills and unselfishness. We have seen so far that Sun is a pretty good passer himself and even though I have only seen the USA vs China game, it seems that Sun can hit the outside shot at least as well as Lamar can. Besides, he would be no higher than the 4th option.
4. So Sun is earmarked to replace Lamar....Say he is a poor man's Odom. He can do what Lamar can with more potential for improvement and we can save some money.
5. Some of you are not too satisfied with Farmar. I think he has done ok, nothing I would build a franchise around though. So maybe eventually Sun will get some of Farmar's minutes at PG making Farmar expendable. Does Farmar's cockiness make him seem that he is better than he really is? Or does the Triangle not maximize his abilities like Howland's system also held him back?
6. Also Fisher is getting older and the Lakers will need to find a replacement for him. I feel Sasha will step into Fisher's role as the hired gun off the bench. Having Sun feed him passes as opposed to Farmar might be an improvement since Farmar seems to look for his own shot just as much as he looks for others. (I don't know if that is a bad thing)
7. So with the addition of Sun getting more playing time in a year or two, we get more cash available by dumping Lamar and we can use Lamar and Farmar as trade bait. Maybe we can use them and other players to get that defensive point guard, all around small forward or monster rebounding PF.
8. The Lakers could also dump Walton for whatever we can get for him.
These were just my thoughts..please don't flame me or critique my grammar, spelling or masculinity....I never claimed to be an expert or insider. I just would like to hear your thoughts regarding my ideas.
Thanks, |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
audioaxes
Star Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 5643
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
nope
I'm sure management takes a more rational approach of not expecting much from him and if he somehow develops into anything decent then its a pleasant bonus from a low risk pick |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Laker_Behemoth
Star Player
Joined: 06 Jul 2008
Posts: 2177
Location: East Coast
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
Make no mistake about it: Sun is no Lamar.
_________________
"After watching Bryant and Cooper go at it for about 10 minutes West stood up, nodded at two team public-relations men he'd brought with him, and snapped, 'That's it, let's get out of here, I've seen enough. He's better than anyone on our team.'" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 12230
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I doubt the Lakers have a master plan involving Yue. They'll just see how he develops and if he can make it in the league. I don't see him as being any factor in what we decide to do with Odom. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vanquish
Starting Rotation
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 601
Location: Toronto or Singapore depending on the time of the year
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
errrm if Sun Yue plays point how does he grab the extra rebounds that Lamar usually gets as a PF or even SF?
Don't points usually stay far further from the basket than SFs and PFs? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 39847
Location: The Courtside room at the Palms
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
Sun rebounds pretty well now from the point position.
_________________
Congrats to 818lakers for winning the 2010 LG NBA playoff pool. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
emplay
Site Staff
Joined: 15 Apr 2001
Posts: 20992
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
postandpivot
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 20917
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| audioaxes wrote: | nope
I'm sure management takes a more rational approach of not expecting much from him and if he somehow develops into anything decent then its a pleasant bonus from a low risk pick |
^^thats it and thats all.
every just has to turn into a "how to get rid of odom" thread. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vanquish
Starting Rotation
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 601
Location: Toronto or Singapore depending on the time of the year
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| postandpivot wrote: | | audioaxes wrote: | nope
I'm sure management takes a more rational approach of not expecting much from him and if he somehow develops into anything decent then its a pleasant bonus from a low risk pick |
^^thats it and thats all.
every just has to turn into a "how to get rid of odom" thread. |
I'm in favor of trading odom but it must be for a better player or a better fit.
Seeing that both categories are mostly gone by now, I hope the front office just stays pat and wait till the deadline to see whether any new offers pop up.
Odom isn't ideal but he's still better than our other 3 sfs! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
postandpivot
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 20917
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Vanquish wrote: | | postandpivot wrote: | | audioaxes wrote: | nope
I'm sure management takes a more rational approach of not expecting much from him and if he somehow develops into anything decent then its a pleasant bonus from a low risk pick |
^^thats it and thats all.
every just has to turn into a "how to get rid of odom" thread. |
I'm in favor of trading odom but it must be for a better player or a better fit.
Seeing that both categories are mostly gone by now, I hope the front office just stays pat and wait till the deadline to see whether any new offers pop up.
Odom isn't ideal but he's still better than our other 3 sfs! |
actually he is ideal. he's a 6'10 mismatch playing sf. its not about his scoring or shooting like people try to make it. pippen couldn't shoot that well either for most of his career from 3. as long as we run the correct tri sets. skys the limit for this team and with our height and rebounding mentality. we should never lose a rebounding battle. that right there can make up for any missed jumpers. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Laker_Dynasty
Star Player
Joined: 21 May 2001
Posts: 7605
Location: West LA
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| postandpivot wrote: | | Vanquish wrote: | | postandpivot wrote: | | audioaxes wrote: | nope
I'm sure management takes a more rational approach of not expecting much from him and if he somehow develops into anything decent then its a pleasant bonus from a low risk pick |
^^thats it and thats all.
every just has to turn into a "how to get rid of odom" thread. |
I'm in favor of trading odom but it must be for a better player or a better fit.
Seeing that both categories are mostly gone by now, I hope the front office just stays pat and wait till the deadline to see whether any new offers pop up.
Odom isn't ideal but he's still better than our other 3 sfs! |
actually he is ideal. he's a 6'10 mismatch playing sf. its not about his scoring or shooting like people try to make it. pippen couldn't shoot that well either for most of his career from 3. as long as we run the correct tri sets. skys the limit for this team and with our height and rebounding mentality. we should never lose a rebounding battle. that right there can make up for any missed jumpers. |
You know, you have a good point here postandpivot. I was thinking about it and how LO would do at the 3 spot...I looked at Pippen's #'s during the championship years and they actually weren't that bloated compared to Lamar's. If Lamar can accomplish close to what Pippen averaged and really use his length to his advantage on defense...I think people can potentially be surprised how well it may end up working (much like how surprised people were of how well the team played last year and getting to the Finals).
_________________
Just chill  and watch the new Dynasty evolve...
Time for the Lakers to create a whole new legacy! We want 10 more trophies boys! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
moonriver24
Star Player
Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 2977
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
The real master plan is to gamble cheap on Yue. If he does not pan out, well, good bye. If he does, we'll move on from there.
_________________
"Those aren't shooters' shots, they're scorers' shots. Those are best-player-in-the-game type shots."
-- Steve Nash on Kobe Bryant's nine points in the final two minutes of Game 6. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Darkndeep
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 1150
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
You have some interesting thoughts and comments, but I don't really see a "plan" in there.
Lamar and Sun play two totally different positions: if Lamar is allowed to walk or is traded, it is not because Sun is "replacing" him. Fisher's going to play out his contract. Farmar? Who knows what happens to him--but I think that his fate is largely in his own hands, i.e., how he plays, whether he wants too much money, etc.: if he plays well and will take reasonable money when it's time (and ditto with Sun), the Lakers will find room for both of them to stay. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wackymathay
Starting Rotation
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 252
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| {deleted by alpha. no need for this type of comments.} |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
im_back
Star Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2008
Posts: 1297
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
we shall see. None of know really
_________________
"MANNYWOOD" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KobeDunk
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 15356
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
Sun will sit on the bench and probably end up on the Defenders by mid December. I dont know how he will pan out after that, all depends on his work ethic and what Phil thinks he could do in real game situations for the Lakers. As far as Lamar, I think people really downgrade and underestimate him. He is our best rebounder afterall and yes he has a problem shooting the outside jumper and could only go left but hes a solid player who has contributed well for the Lakers in his time here. Lets not compare Lamar to an unproven scrub who will warm the bench night in and night out! I like Sun but i dont expect much from him, maybe flashes here and there of what he could be but it may take time, if it even happens at all! Look at Sasha, it took him 4 years to develop!
_________________
BACK2BACK NBA CHAMPIONS! 2009, 2010 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
st3vo
Starting Rotation
Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 408
Location: los angeles
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| KobeDunk wrote: | | Sun will sit on the bench and probably end up on the Defenders by mid December. I dont know how he will pan out after that, all depends on his work ethic and what Phil thinks he could do in real game situations for the Lakers. As far as Lamar, I think people really downgrade and underestimate him. He is our best rebounder afterall and yes he has a problem shooting the outside jumper and could only go left but hes a solid player who has contributed well for the Lakers in his time here. Lets not compare Lamar to an unproven scrub who will warm the bench night in and night out! I like Sun but i dont expect much from him, maybe flashes here and there of what he could be but it may take time, if it even happens at all! Look at Sasha, it took him 4 years to develop! |
quoted for truth. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 12230
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Laker_Dynasty wrote: |
You know, you have a good point here postandpivot. I was thinking about it and how LO would do at the 3 spot...I looked at Pippen's #'s during the championship years and they actually weren't that bloated compared to Lamar's. If Lamar can accomplish close to what Pippen averaged and really use his length to his advantage on defense...I think people can potentially be surprised how well it may end up working (much like how surprised people were of how well the team played last year and getting to the Finals). |
Pippen wasn't a great 3-point shooter, but it's a little hard to judge. The first third of his career was during an era when teams didn't shoot three pointers much, and he often took less than one a game. He started to shoot them when the 3-point line was moved in, so it's hard to compare what that means against the current era.
Personally, I think it's just setting up Odom for defeat to expect him to be Pippen. I don't think he'll get anywhere near the numbers Pippen did during the Bulls ring years, and he isn't close to being the kind of defender Pippen was. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 12230
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| KobeDunk wrote: | | Sun will sit on the bench and probably end up on the Defenders by mid December. I dont know how he will pan out after that, all depends on his work ethic and what Phil thinks he could do in real game situations for the Lakers. As far as Lamar, I think people really downgrade and underestimate him. He is our best rebounder afterall and yes he has a problem shooting the outside jumper and could only go left but hes a solid player who has contributed well for the Lakers in his time here. Lets not compare Lamar to an unproven scrub who will warm the bench night in and night out! I like Sun but i dont expect much from him, maybe flashes here and there of what he could be but it may take time, if it even happens at all! Look at Sasha, it took him 4 years to develop! |
I think you are right on about Yue. With Lamar, the question isn't his talent, but how he adjusts to playing SF with a couple of strong players in the C and PF spots. I don't think his success will necessarily be reflected in numbers. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakersMDGurl
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 6704
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| KobeDunk wrote: | | Sun will sit on the bench and probably end up on the Defenders by mid December. I dont know how he will pan out after that, all depends on his work ethic and what Phil thinks he could do in real game situations for the Lakers. As far as Lamar, I think people really downgrade and underestimate him. He is our best rebounder afterall and yes he has a problem shooting the outside jumper and could only go left but hes a solid player who has contributed well for the Lakers in his time here. Lets not compare Lamar to an unproven scrub who will warm the bench night in and night out! I like Sun but i dont expect much from him, maybe flashes here and there of what he could be but it may take time, if it even happens at all! Look at Sasha, it took him 4 years to develop! |
Gets it!!!
_________________
"I don't have any business talking to [Pierce]; he was on the ground crying. I don't know what was going on -- two actresses over there, that's what they are."
-- Miami's Quentin Richardson after his scuffle with Kevin Garnett |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
postandpivot
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 20917
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| activeverb wrote: | | Laker_Dynasty wrote: |
You know, you have a good point here postandpivot. I was thinking about it and how LO would do at the 3 spot...I looked at Pippen's #'s during the championship years and they actually weren't that bloated compared to Lamar's. If Lamar can accomplish close to what Pippen averaged and really use his length to his advantage on defense...I think people can potentially be surprised how well it may end up working (much like how surprised people were of how well the team played last year and getting to the Finals). |
Pippen wasn't a great 3-point shooter, but it's a little hard to judge. The first third of his career was during an era when teams didn't shoot three pointers much, and he often took less than one a game. He started to shoot them when the 3-point line was moved in, so it's hard to compare what that means against the current era.
Personally, I think it's just setting up Odom for defeat to expect him to be Pippen. I don't think he'll get anywhere near the numbers Pippen did during the Bulls ring years, and he isn't close to being the kind of defender Pippen was. |
pippen couldn't shoot the 3 for the most part. he had a line drive shot. little to no arc. his shot start popping when they got dennis rodman. if i'm correct. i think thats why his % went up. because he knew when he missed good old dennis would give him a 2nd chance at it. you shoot better without the pressure of one and done.
now back to LO. no i dont think Lo's numbers will be close to pippens numbers. and they shouldn't be. we have to many other people on the court that need touches for LO to be anywhere near 18 per. i just want to make sure we never lose that rebounding battle. and dominate on most nights. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
unleasHell
Star Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 3281
Location: Stay Thirsty my Friends
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
Mitch's PLAN is for the Lakers to WIN!
(Shhh, don't tell anyone, it's a secret) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Laker_Dynasty
Star Player
Joined: 21 May 2001
Posts: 7605
Location: West LA
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't think Sun has anything to do with their future plans unless he proves that he's worthy enough to be thought of in that vain. Don't get me wrong, I think the kid is naturally gifted, but at the same time...that doesn't mean that it will translate to him exceeding expectations.
_________________
Just chill and watch the new Dynasty evolve...
Time for the Lakers to create a whole new legacy! We want 10 more trophies boys! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sAM sHILE
Star Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 1785
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Laker_Dynasty wrote: | | postandpivot wrote: | | Vanquish wrote: | | postandpivot wrote: | | audioaxes wrote: | nope
I'm sure management takes a more rational approach of not expecting much from him and if he somehow develops into anything decent then its a pleasant bonus from a low risk pick |
^^thats it and thats all.
every just has to turn into a "how to get rid of odom" thread. |
I'm in favor of trading odom but it must be for a better player or a better fit.
Seeing that both categories are mostly gone by now, I hope the front office just stays pat and wait till the deadline to see whether any new offers pop up.
Odom isn't ideal but he's still better than our other 3 sfs! |
actually he is ideal. he's a 6'10 mismatch playing sf. its not about his scoring or shooting like people try to make it. pippen couldn't shoot that well either for most of his career from 3. as long as we run the correct tri sets. skys the limit for this team and with our height and rebounding mentality. we should never lose a rebounding battle. that right there can make up for any missed jumpers. |
You know, you have a good point here postandpivot. I was thinking about it and how LO would do at the 3 spot...I looked at Pippen's #'s during the championship years and they actually weren't that bloated compared to Lamar's. If Lamar can accomplish close to what Pippen averaged and really use his length to his advantage on defense...I think people can potentially be surprised how well it may end up working (much like how surprised people were of how well the team played last year and getting to the Finals). |
Iagree. Showtime Lakers did not shoot a good 3. Odom hits for 52%. there not just standing in one position. Lamr is still awesome on the boards and will help get the ball to work our magic.
_________________
"Never try to teach a pig to sing,
it makes one look stupid
and it irritates the pig." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pjiddy
Star Player
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 4960
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I sincerely hope we're not pinning any long term plans on the development of Sun Yue. he's a 14th/15th man in the best of possible worlds. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
