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hsenation
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:00 pm    Post subject:

Thanks for the kind words, 2Cleva...You have nice game plan too...

Its in the hands of the judges...but I'm glad we both put it all out there, did good analysis of each others' teams and put together solid game plans.

Whoever wins, this is why the ATL is so fun...
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:15 pm    Post subject:

2Cleva wrote:
Also its new school rules. Rodman can't be physical on the perimeter.
When did the new school rules start applying? cuz I think Rodman been playing physical his whole career even late into his career...
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:29 pm    Post subject:

postandpivot wrote:
2Cleva wrote:
New York vs Sweden

Man - that gameplan was unconventional to say the least. NY matches up very well with Sweden and actually could beat them but will the judges find it wrapped in the cover its in?


come on if its that hard to see. i dont know what to say. thats why i broke every single player down. there are holes all over that sweet-en team. holes that i showed how to exploit on both ends of the floor. its a simple gameplan. as i've stated, i really dont see how sweet-en got homecourt. aside from the fact that have Sexy names on the team. dennis rodman playing sf should be the death of sweet-en. by placing him there you have taken away his strength(s) and you have exposed his weakness. he's a great rebounder but playing pf or C closer to the basket. you can't crash the boards like a man man and play paul pierce at the same time. it just can't happen. and if he wants to stick with pierce he's going to have to stay close. doing so will result in early foul trouble for drodman. or a bunch of layups for pierce. if he backs off its 3 time. you saw what pierce did to us when we watched him shoot.

obvious holes.

no one can matchup with moses on that team. obvious holes. sheed can't stop or slow webber off the dribble from the high post, and he can't help off webber to double moses down low. obvious holes that can't be plugged by his bench players either.

Selective Memory.. you make it seem like Moses is god... The dude only won one ring.. he is a great player but thinking he can just do what he wants down low... Even Wilt who I feel is a greater low post threat than Moses did not dominate like that. How about Shaq? do you think Shaq can just dominate the blocks? If so... he needed a great swingman each time he won a championship, cuz when he was just bulldozing people IT DIDNT HAPPEN. Moses is a great center but he aint No Wilt, Shaq, KAJ, Hakeem. I showed my gameplan... and it just TRUMPED yours.. dont be lazy pal and expect the judges to make your gameplan for yourself.. You gonna sit there and all you do is talk up your player and talk down the other team.. well that doesnt work in here or real life.. you still have to gameplan and do your homework... WE RAN MOSES TO THE GROUND... EXTENDED THE ZONE... did a Match Up Zone.. Early offense to prevent you from using a zone.. by the time this game was over, Moses is sitting inside an ambulance with an Air Mask... I could have actually just spent a majority of my gameplanning attacking the weakness of each and every one of your players... but I'm not that lazy...
Also can you recheck your sources about rings..
Magic has 5, Rodman has 5 (2 Pistons, 3 Bulls) and I believe Cartwright has 3 and Sheed has 1 thats 14 rings right there and they are folks that played a major part of their team getting the ring...
Lets see Pierce 1, Payton 1 (sat on bench at Miami), Malone 1, Fisher 3 (role player), Elie 2, Prince 1, Salley 2. So thats 11. I think 14 trumps 11.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:33 pm    Post subject:

I believe...prime vs prime...new school or old school...Rodman shuts Pierce down...

and gets in his head...

and forces him into a corner of the gym balled up in the fetal position...

oh wait, that was Pippen...
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:38 pm    Post subject:

hsenation wrote:
I believe...prime vs prime...new school or old school...Rodman shuts Pierce down...

and gets in his head...

and forces him into a corner of the gym balled up in the fetal position...

oh wait, that was Pippen...
But according to some players here... Pierce would be greater than Pippen... LOL
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:53 pm    Post subject:

2Cleva wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
Jeffs wrote:
Rodman starting at the 3 may not be the best idea from an offensive standpoint, but it certainly doesn't hurt Sweden defensively. Rodman was a fantastic defender at both the 3 and the 4 (and pretty damn solid at the 5 for his size).

he can't guard paul pierce. mr finals mvp. i dont care what kind of makeshift defender he was at the 3. how many times was dennis guarding dominique? he wasn't. why? because he couldn't guard a superstar sf. he could guard a normal sf. prince aint starting. pierce is. rodman better be in foul trouble.


I do agree there. Rodman 91/92 didn't matchup with wing players - he did that in his younger years. By that time he was just a rebounder and post defender. He didn't have the guile he did in late Chicago years either - he was just beginning to wild out at that time.

Pierce would tear him up.

Rodman 91-92 is his young days... were you thinking 2001-2002? cuz Rodman 91-92 was his sixth year in the league so he was entering prime... wilding out with 18.7 rpg one year remove from back to back DPOY and still 1st team all D and 3rd Team ALL NBA ... Your time machine is broke...
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:55 pm    Post subject:

jamas33 wrote:
hsenation wrote:
I believe...prime vs prime...new school or old school...Rodman shuts Pierce down...

and gets in his head...

and forces him into a corner of the gym balled up in the fetal position...

oh wait, that was Pippen...
But according to some players here... Pierce would be greater than Pippen... LOL


Something you seem to be forgetting Jamas is that PeePee is the best player in da entire world... if you're not sure about that just ask him.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:57 pm    Post subject:

postandpivot wrote:
Jeffs wrote:
Rodman starting at the 3 may not be the best idea from an offensive standpoint, but it certainly doesn't hurt Sweden defensively. Rodman was a fantastic defender at both the 3 and the 4 (and pretty damn solid at the 5 for his size).

he can't guard paul pierce. mr finals mvp. i dont care what kind of makeshift defender he was at the 3. how many times was dennis guarding dominique? he wasn't. why? because he couldn't guard a superstar sf. he could guard a normal sf. prince aint starting. pierce is. rodman better be in foul trouble.
Paul is that you?
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:59 pm    Post subject:

this is Rodman as a whole.

Awards
1989-90 NBA Defensive Player of the Year
1990-91 NBA Defensive Player of the Year


Honors
1988-89 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1989-90 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1990-91 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1991-92 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1991-92 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
1992-93 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1993-94 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1994-95 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1994-95 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
1995-96 NBA All-Defensive (1st)


MVP Voting
Season Lg Share (Rank)
1991-92 NBA 0.027 (10)
1993-94 NBA 0.001 (11)
1994-95 NBA 0.009 (12)
1995-96 NBA 0.004 (15)


IMAGINE Getting NBA MVP Votes just because of his rebounding and defense. 91-92 He was locking folks down...
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:25 pm    Post subject:

New school rules didn't start until 02-03. Late in the Bling Era run.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:24 pm    Post subject:

You can't shut anyone down with new school rules. so whatever you are saying rodman can do to pierce is all for not. Thats your mistake .

and again. RODMAN COULD NEVER GUARD ALLSTAR caliber SF's, NEVER. get that out of your heads now.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:36 pm    Post subject:

Pierce isn't in Nique's league.

Better actor, but that's about all he's got on him.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:42 pm    Post subject:

jamas33 wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
2Cleva wrote:
New York vs Sweden

Man - that gameplan was unconventional to say the least. NY matches up very well with Sweden and actually could beat them but will the judges find it wrapped in the cover its in?


come on if its that hard to see. i dont know what to say. thats why i broke every single player down. there are holes all over that sweet-en team. holes that i showed how to exploit on both ends of the floor. its a simple gameplan. as i've stated, i really dont see how sweet-en got homecourt. aside from the fact that have Sexy names on the team. dennis rodman playing sf should be the death of sweet-en. by placing him there you have taken away his strength(s) and you have exposed his weakness. he's a great rebounder but playing pf or C closer to the basket. you can't crash the boards like a man man and play paul pierce at the same time. it just can't happen. and if he wants to stick with pierce he's going to have to stay close. doing so will result in early foul trouble for drodman. or a bunch of layups for pierce. if he backs off its 3 time. you saw what pierce did to us when we watched him shoot.

obvious holes.

no one can matchup with moses on that team. obvious holes. sheed can't stop or slow webber off the dribble from the high post, and he can't help off webber to double moses down low. obvious holes that can't be plugged by his bench players either.

Selective Memory.. you make it seem like Moses is god... The dude only won one ring.. he is a great player but thinking he can just do what he wants down low... Even Wilt who I feel is a greater low post threat than Moses did not dominate like that. How about Shaq? do you think Shaq can just dominate the blocks? If so... he needed a great swingman each time he won a championship, cuz when he was just bulldozing people IT DIDNT HAPPEN. Moses is a great center but he aint No Wilt, Shaq, KAJ, Hakeem. I showed my gameplan... and it just TRUMPED yours.. dont be lazy pal and expect the judges to make your gameplan for yourself.. You gonna sit there and all you do is talk up your player and talk down the other team.. well that doesnt work in here or real life.. you still have to gameplan and do your homework... WE RAN MOSES TO THE GROUND... EXTENDED THE ZONE... did a Match Up Zone.. Early offense to prevent you from using a zone.. by the time this game was over, Moses is sitting inside an ambulance with an Air Mask... I could have actually just spent a majority of my gameplanning attacking the weakness of each and every one of your players... but I'm not that lazy...
Also can you recheck your sources about rings..
Magic has 5, Rodman has 5 (2 Pistons, 3 Bulls) and I believe Cartwright has 3 and Sheed has 1 thats 14 rings right there and they are folks that played a major part of their team getting the ring...
Lets see Pierce 1, Payton 1 (sat on bench at Miami), Malone 1, Fisher 3 (role player), Elie 2, Prince 1, Salley 2. So thats 11. I think 14 trumps 11.


You missed the point. I have more rings spread out on my team then you do. it means no matter how deep we go into the bench there's a champion in the lineup or 3. that in itself covers a lot of holes.

see you can have mjay and pippen and have 12 rings. So what. thats only 2 guys. what happens if one guy gets into foul trouble, or if one guy has a bad game. there goes 6 rings. now you're down to 6 in one swoop. you can't do that to my squad. we have rings on darn near every players hand.

on top of that we have finals mvps in the starting lineup. so not only did moses win ONE, he won that ONE as a Finals MVP.

the only reason the magic man has so many is because he played with a team full of allstars/first ballot hall of famers. we all know this. there were no better teams then celts and lakers. same goes for mjay winning 6 and scottie winning 6, and cartwright winning 3, and rodman getting his few with the bulls.

payton(stop lying, payton made key buckets to carry these dudes over, you must be talking about Derek anderson. payton, posey and zo put dwhistle over the top, not snaqs.)

Moses, Elie, salley, Gp, didnt' have the luxury of a team looking anywhere close to the bulls, the lakers, or the celtics (in their hay day).

back to moses. the point is Moses would destroy YOUR team, camby is to thin of a guy to handle moses in the post. Period. if camby can't handle a baby bynum, what makes you think he can do anything. i mean anything with moses? camby better be in foul trouble right along with dennis.

and please double down on moses. fine with me. lets watch Cwebb go to work from the high post. sheed couldn't guard young webber. the difference between the two guys is that Cwebb in washington wanted the ball to make plays/score in the end. Sheed even in portland didn't want the ball in crunch time. and if by chance he got it. he was going for a jumper vs something toward the basket. webber would shoot, drive or back to the basket you in the crunch. his biggest problem was going to sac on a team that thought offense 1st, 2nd and defense last. you will never win like that.

90% of what your team is going to do is shoot jumpers. while I'm pounding the rock inside or driving inside and setting up dunks and layups. you have 1 to many shooters on your team. its nice to have balance, but you can't have all of either. and like i said. the way we're going to play you tells the story. give everyone room to chuck. go ahead. live by it, and die by it. tmac is your only good 3 pt shooter. in your starting lineup. we got guys off the bench that can shoot better then your starters. but they can also go to the basket, postup, and drive. thats what they do.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:58 pm    Post subject:

postandpivot wrote:
You can't shut anyone down with new school rules. so whatever you are saying rodman can do to pierce is all for not. Thats your mistake .

and again. RODMAN COULD NEVER GUARD ALLSTAR caliber SF's, NEVER. get that out of your heads now.


Exactly who do you think Rodman was guarding when he won back to back DPoYs playing for Detroit as a SF in 89-91?
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:10 pm    Post subject:

"the only reason the magic man has so many is because he played with a team full of allstars/first ballot hall of famers. we all know this."

Let me rephrase that for you.

"The only reason those guys were all stars/first ballot hall of famers is because they played with Magic. We all know this."

Of course, both are wrong, but to claim that Magic was a result of his surroundings without also realizing that the reverse is true is sheer madness.

I mean, that would be like saying that Moses Malone never would have been an MVP if he hadn't been playing with Andrew Toney, Julius Erving, Maurice Cheeks, and Bobby Jones! Crazy!

I'm just butting into your argument though. Not much else to do out here in Bemidji.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:19 pm    Post subject:

Soy wrote:
Pierce isn't in Nique's league.

Better actor, but that's about all he's got on him.


actually i would take pierce over nique. why? not because he's on my team now. but because he can do it all, post, drive, shoot 3's, and now he proved he could co-exist with 2 other superstars. nique was a hotdog on a stick. i loved him. i loved his highlights, i loved his high flying. but his jumper was questionable. i dont care what the stats say. the guy was the ultimate volume chucker. he had to get off a ton of shots to warm up. pierce proved he didn't have to do that this past season. last but not least which one has a ring and which one was finals mvp? shoot which one went to the finals? pierce, pierce, and pierce. sorry pierce is in niques league. we just dont want to admit it because we hate him now and his game aint pretty.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:25 pm    Post subject:

TIME wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
You can't shut anyone down with new school rules. so whatever you are saying rodman can do to pierce is all for not. Thats your mistake .

and again. RODMAN COULD NEVER GUARD ALLSTAR caliber SF's, NEVER. get that out of your heads now.


Exactly who do you think Rodman was guarding when he won back to back DPoYs playing for Detroit as a SF in 89-91?


i'll say it again. he was not slowing or stopping any prime time sf's. i dont care what award he won. kg won it this past season. kg couldn't stop gasol by himself. and gasol is a thin guy. kg had to depend on a team defense concept so he could be a weakside shot blocker/helper. camby one that award also. by blocking shots. did that ever deter anyone from going to the rack on denver? NO. so winning that award doesn't necessarily mean you went head to head with the bigboys and came out as a shutdown/lockdown defender ala gary payton. sorry i aint buying it. paul pierce would have dennis in foul trouble ladies. its that simple. he can do it all. drive, shoot, and post. he's not your average thin athletic sf. he's an sf thats quick enough/smart enough to get by you, but he is also a bruiser type of sf. in addition he can shoot very well and he knows how to get to his best spots on the floor to make most of his jumpers. notice how many 3's he hit from the same spots on the lakers in the finals. thats smart.

i aint buying dennis at SF vs pierce(finals Mvp, stop the hate and recognize that pierce was the finals mvp, not just finals, he went crazy in each series.) sorry dennis and stopping nor slowing that. and pierce can kick it on defense . just stand back 10 feet into the paint and help on any big or any penetration. lets see if dennis will hit jumpers all night. i dare him.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:06 pm    Post subject:

postandpivot wrote:
TIME wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
You can't shut anyone down with new school rules. so whatever you are saying rodman can do to pierce is all for not. Thats your mistake .

and again. RODMAN COULD NEVER GUARD ALLSTAR caliber SF's, NEVER. get that out of your heads now.


Exactly who do you think Rodman was guarding when he won back to back DPoYs playing for Detroit as a SF in 89-91?


i'll say it again. he was not slowing or stopping any prime time sf's. i dont care what award he won. kg won it this past season. kg couldn't stop gasol by himself. and gasol is a thin guy. kg had to depend on a team defense concept so he could be a weakside shot blocker/helper. camby one that award also. by blocking shots. did that ever deter anyone from going to the rack on denver? NO. so winning that award doesn't necessarily mean you went head to head with the bigboys and came out as a shutdown/lockdown defender ala gary payton. sorry i aint buying it. paul pierce would have dennis in foul trouble ladies. its that simple. he can do it all. drive, shoot, and post. he's not your average thin athletic sf. he's an sf thats quick enough/smart enough to get by you, but he is also a bruiser type of sf. in addition he can shoot very well and he knows how to get to his best spots on the floor to make most of his jumpers. notice how many 3's he hit from the same spots on the lakers in the finals. thats smart.

i aint buying dennis at SF vs pierce(finals Mvp, stop the hate and recognize that pierce was the finals mvp, not just finals, he went crazy in each series.) sorry dennis and stopping nor slowing that. and pierce can kick it on defense . just stand back 10 feet into the paint and help on any big or any penetration. lets see if dennis will hit jumpers all night. i dare him.


KG is a great man defender. He is also a fantastic help defender, which is primarily why he won the DPoY award. Camby won the award for his help D and rebounding.

Dennis didn't win the award in 89 for his 9.7 RPG. He didn't win it for his 52 steals or 60 blocks. He won it because he played fantastic man defense all year long.

Whatever, it's pointless to debate this, because I know I won't convince you. Good luck to both of you guys.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:22 pm    Post subject:

postandpivot...

You're entitled to your opinion about Paul Pierce...he's a great player, but you make him sound like Jordan...just cause he won a Finals MVP does not validate him as suddenly the greatest sf out there. I think Lebron would take offense to that. By your barometer of greatness, Tony Parker is the greatest pg out there...Chauncey Billups was the greatest prior to that. You give him a lot of love, but I personally don't see Paul Pierce anywhere near Bird or Erving or Worthy or Lebron...btw, Rodman did play two of those guys...

I think what is so difficult for most of us to fathom is your complete lack of respect for one of the greatest defensive players EVER. I find it hard to believe you ever saw Rodman play in his prime, otherwise, you wouldn't be making these claims. Rodman is the best man to man defender I have ever seen, and most everyone believes this to be true. I hate admitting it, but I think Rodman was better than Michael Cooper. He was a freak of nature, quick, athletic and tenacious. No matter how good you believe Pierce is, he would not dominate Rodman. At the very least, its a push, but no way Pierce, MR MVP, would blow Rodman off the court. You are in the minority in believing it would be that lopsided.

But I give you credit for sticking to your guns...I don't agree with you, but I like that you are fighting for what you believe in.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:27 pm    Post subject:

Expecting the judges to rule in Pierce's favor is lunacy. Even if you think that is true, the judges don't and the perception throughout the basketball world isn't anywhere close to yours either. In games like these, perception is more important than reality.

My prediction is Sweden in a sweep.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:54 am    Post subject:

It's single elimination.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:43 am    Post subject:

Thinking about it more - Rodman's D was by being physical and moving his feet - he was quicker than most. Pierce's game isn't built off quickness and he uses post moves more - that hurts. On the outside, Pierce could get his J off anytime he wanted against Rodman - especially with the no handcheck rules.

But even in his prime, Rodman couldn't handle perimeter players. For example, there's a reason Jordan lit up Dumars instead of Rodman, Jordan was way too quick for Rodman outside - Daly didn't even bother trying that. In this matchup, even Eddie could slash by Rodman to the basket. But PP, whose game is more isos and postup and not a lightening quick first step, could have some issues.

Pierce still would get his 20+ but I can't see him exploding.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:32 am    Post subject:

2Cleva wrote:
Thinking about it more - Rodman's D was by being physical and moving his feet - he was quicker than most. Pierce's game isn't built off quickness and he uses post moves more - that hurts. On the outside, Pierce could get his J off anytime he wanted against Rodman - especially with the no handcheck rules.

But even in his prime, Rodman couldn't handle perimeter players. For example, there's a reason Jordan lit up Dumars instead of Rodman, Jordan was way too quick for Rodman outside - Daly didn't even bother trying that. In this matchup, even Eddie could slash by Rodman to the basket. But PP, whose game is more isos and postup and not a lightening quick first step, could have some issues.

Pierce still would get his 20+ but I can't see him exploding.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:34 am    Post subject:

I guess being DPOY two years in a row meant all these PF, SF and SG's were lighting him up... GET REAL....
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:39 am    Post subject:

Here some reminder. His quickness, his quickjump ability, anticipation... yeah he sucks.. he can't guard wing players..

Rodman Can't D. LOL

Sure he can't D...
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