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postandpivot
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:29 am    Post subject:

TIME wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
Prove me wrong...


Ok, hold on one second while I hop into the WayBack machine with Mr. Peabody and go grab 30 year old Dennis Rodman to bring him back to our time so he can be burned over and over again by the force of nature, Category Five, hurricane of dominance, Paul Pierce.

Now, just to be clear on what you are saying here...

Pierce averaged how many points last season? 19.6? Pure dominance.

And he averaged how many in the six Finals games against the Lakers? 21.8? And this was being guarded most of the time by those giants of defence that the Lakers have at SF.

And how many did he average over the course of the entire playoffs? 19.7? Raising his game from the regular season an entire tenth of a point. We should call him Big Game Paul.

Keep in mind that NONE of the players guarding Pierce in the playoffs where he averaged a WHOPPING 19.7ppg were ever remotely in Rodman's league as a man defender.

But, yeah, sure, if you want to insist that Rodman could not check him I suppose I should ignore the facts and take your word for it.


who said pierce was dominant? i didn't. I said he would not be slowed or stopped by Drodman. thats all i said. and that little bitty 19 per was enough to do what? Get a championship as Finals MVP. and again like i said, dont be so enamored with high scoring players when thinking about them playing alongside other high scoring players. odd are someone will have to take a backseat. odds are everyone's scoring average will suffer a bit. The thing is, with pierce's scoring average taking a backseat, what happened? HE WON A CHAMPIONSHIP AS FINALS MVP. He also RAN THRU THE NBA this past season. i didn't like it it either. i hate... wait a second. I HATE BOSTON

but truth is truth. dont bring up how people who guarded pierce wasn't in rodman's league in the offs. if you bring that up. exhibit A, and B. i showed you Bruce Bowen during the season. Bruce bowen is the Best SF defender in the nba STILL, and was the best SF defender when he was 30 years old. 30 year old bowen was worked over by Pierce. old man bowen was also WORKED over by Pierce. So there goes your "what if a superiour defender guards him?" question answered. like i said, PROVE IT.. you can't. because no one is stopping pp. its one reason he smells himself and feels that they need to mention him alongside kobe( i dont think they do, but im a laker fan, celtic HATER, aka kobe lover). Shaq called pierce "THE TRUTH" when he played against kobe and snaq in staples. why? how many points this PP put up? Is shaq a lie in this case? sure shaq is a lie alot of times. but was he telling the truth? Yes, he was correct. PP is the truth. again, just because a guy isn't flying thru the air like Mjay doesn't mean he isn't getting it done.


Last edited by postandpivot on Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:17 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:50 am    Post subject:

TIME wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
TIME wrote:
Ignore my post above^^^

I remember now why postandpivot did not select the unguardable Paul Pierce with his first draft pick. He instead selected the man who defines greatness... Chris Webber. If you don't believe me, just ask Tyra Banks.


who i selected with my top 5 draft picks means what? at my slot. see you can't clown me for drafting who i drafted because i had a bad slot. it meant the people you could build a team around were gone before i even had a chance to pick in round 1. thats why i had to go in a totally different direction. let me give you ladies this lesson. what does one do if he can't build around a hall of fame big(snaqs)/sg(mjay)/pg(magic)?

you build a detroit pistons TEAM. where everyone is willing to share the ball for the greater good of the team. a lot of defense in the starting lineup and off the bench. spark off the bench shooters to keep from going on detroit like scoring droughts(check). and leave room just in case you can pull off some magic in free agency. we had Smits at center. then we had to go get Moses. This put a piston like team that could only win under perfect circumstances. in a new realm. now they can win under any circumstance if they do what they're supposed to do.

put it this way, if i had a much better slot. we wouldn't be having this discussion at all. because i would've picked a team that no one could beat. its more then just bignamed players at every position.


Ok, believe it or not, I'm not really wanting to argue with you. I just have a thing about guys running their mouths when they don't really know what they are talking about.

Here is the list of players selected after your pick of Chris Webber:

22. Seoul (CandyCanes) - Dwight Howard (07-08) 18
23. La Palma (marloveslakers24) - John Stockton (89-90) 24
24. Los Angeles (Caron1) - Charles Barkley (92-93) 23

Round 2
25. Los Angeles (Caron1) - Walt Frazier (73-74) 27
26. La Palma (marloveslakers24) - Robert Parish (81-82) 20
27. Seoul (CandyCanes) - Chris Paul (07-08) 18
28. New York (postandpivot) - Gary Payton (95-96) 24
29. Manila (hsenation) - Kevin McHale (86-87) 25
30. Fullerton (mike_dee23) - Dominique Wilkins 21
31. Oregon (rdog) - Bil Walton (76-77) 20
32. Siberia (Boris Autobot) - Jason Kidd 21
33. Santa Barbara (Jeffs) - John Havlicek (71-72) 23
34. Bemidji (Chef Green) - Tiny Archibald (72-73) 20
35. Buffalo (Michlake) - Scottie Pippen 24
36. Brooklyn (STiG909) - Dirk Nowitzki 18 (roboto)
37. Tokyo (Mr. Roboto) - Shawn Kemp 16
38. Winona (Soy) - Nate Thurmond (71-72) 20
39. Las Vegas (coville - 2 hours) - Yao Ming 16 (roboto)
40. San Juan (L4L) - Sidney Moncrief (82-83) 22
41. San Francisco (onepinoyboy8) - Oscar Robertson (71-72) 18
42. Hiroshima (minorbravo) - Adrian Dantley (80-81) 18
43. Washington (Laker_Behemoth) - Bernard King (84-85) 18
44. Tahiti (10scott10) - Dikembe Mutombo (95-96) 16
45. Barcelona (Aabs) - Penny Hardaway 22

I see ONE name (maybe 2-3 tops) that I would NOT have taken ahead of Webber if I were choosing in your slot. But, that's just me. What do I know. I mean, I'm the guy that is ignorant enough to believe Rodman could check Paul Pierce.


You missed the entire point trying to make your point. read, let it marinate, then respond.


what did i say? I SAID. The slot i had, there wasn't anyone left i COULD BUILD A TEAM AROUND. what part of that dont you get? There are a few core players POSTnPIVOT would build a team around. I'm not going to name them, just in case i advance i dont want to give anyone any leverage. I'm from the old school. I build around CENTERS.Why? because it make it that much easier to setup the rest of your team around that. I didn't build around Cwebb, nor did i build around GP. pay attention. i change the direction of my team because guys (bigs) i would want to build around were taken ahead of me. That meant i had to go with plan B. which is build a TEAM a team like the pistons won with vs the lakers. a TEAM where you can't tell who's the main gun or goto guy. but while doing so, i had the oppurtunity to move a few pieces around to make room for a possible Corner STone of my franchise(someone to build around). aka moses malone. If i didn't get moses, i was done, end of discussion.

and if i would've lets say chosen 2 of the guys in your list that could possibly be cornerstone guys. I would've missed out on either GP or webber. quiet as kept someone should've picked up Gp before i did. but that would've changed the direction of their team. something i assume they did not want to do. someone should've picked up pierce int he 3rd rd. but because of the laker glasses and the fact that his game is not pretty at all. non of you really thought about him. a few inquired after it was all said and done. because then and only then did they realize what just happened. "wait a second stupid arrogant pierce is a champion and a Finals MVP. how did i let that slip away??" Some inquired about him could've picked him before i did. but chose to pick someone else who they ended up dropping.

So even if this ends in the first rd(it better not). You guys will know. that the guy who picked eddie jones, webber, pierce. got a higher seed in the offs then some people who had a much better first rd pick then he did.

Whatever moses can't do well, Cwebb can. and vice versa.

whatever eddie can't do or be trusted to do as you guys say, elie can. whatever gp can't do fisher and lue can.

Remember this fellas. my towel boy/water boy aka 12man on the roster is a champion. thats what kind of establishment we're running here. hopefull its not over to soon.

***DENNIS CAN"T CHECK PIERCE IN THE NO TOUCH ERA***. just like PIPPEN WOULDNT BE ABLED TO CHECK MAGIC IN THE NO TOUCH ERA***
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postandpivot
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:59 am    Post subject:

oooh and if we really want to talk about choke artist.

Lets talk about tmac for a moment. has that guy ever been to the finals? NO.

you guys remember that speech"if we dont do it this time, its all on me"

press conference:

see its one thing to score a bunch of points and look good for a shoe deal. its another to carry a team to the promise land. eddie jones was never supposed to be the main goto guy to carry a franchise. Tmac was. do you know how you choke off a chance to win like tmac did? you dont play enough defense. you think as long as you put up 40 and 5, everything else is someone elses job. WRONG. you have to play defense at some point. something tmac would not do. do we think it will change today? why should i believe that?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:59 am    Post subject:

postandpivot wrote:
***DENNIS CAN"T CHECK PIERCE IN THE NO TOUCH ERA***. just like PIPPEN WOULDNT BE ABLED TO CHECK MAGIC IN THE NO TOUCH ERA***


Pippen able to check Magic? Not in the post. Magic would Baby Hook him to death.

But on the perimeter? It depends on the age of Magic. When he was younger - no way but an older Magic would have had problems getting by Pippen, especially since Magic didn't have the outside jumper to demand Pippen to play him tight.

Then again, Magic's game was never off the dribble except in transition. Magic would just back up Pippen and then spin off of him into the lane and wreck shop.
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postandpivot
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:33 am    Post subject:

Jeffs wrote:
2Cleva wrote:
Also its new school rules. Rodman can't be physical on the perimeter.


A lot of old-school players would have to adjust because of that. Payton can't be physical either.

doesn't need to be. he wasn't the type of guy that was hand checking his way to steals (DEREK HARPER). and worse case scenario thats why you always have new school proven defenders (fisher/lue) off the pine.
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TIME
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:35 am    Post subject:

postandpivot wrote:
TIME wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
Prove me wrong...


Ok, hold on one second while I hop into the WayBack machine with Mr. Peabody and go grab 30 year old Dennis Rodman to bring him back to our time so he can be burned over and over again by the force of nature, Category Five, hurricane of dominance, Paul Pierce.

Now, just to be clear on what you are saying here...

Pierce averaged how many points last season? 19.6? Pure dominance.

And he averaged how many in the six Finals games against the Lakers? 21.8? And this was being guarded most of the time by those giants of defence that the Lakers have at SF.

And how many did he average over the course of the entire playoffs? 19.7? Raising his game from the regular season an entire tenth of a point. We should call him Big Game Paul.

Keep in mind that NONE of the players guarding Pierce in the playoffs where he averaged a WHOPPING 19.7ppg were ever remotely in Rodman's league as a man defender.

But, yeah, sure, if you want to insist that Rodman could not check him I suppose I should ignore the facts and take your word for it.


who said pierce was dominant? i didn't. I said he would not be slowed or stopped by Drodman. thats all i said. and that little bitty 19 per was enough to do what? Get a championship as Finals MVP. and again like i said, dont be so enamored with high scoring players when thinking about them playing alongside other high scoring players. odd are someone will have to take a backseat. odds are everyone's scoring average will suffer a bit. The thing is, with pierce's scoring average taking a backseat, what happened? HE WON A CHAMPIONSHIP AS FINALS MVP. He also RAN THRU THE NBA this past season. i didn't like it it either. i hate... wait a second. I HATE BOSTON

but truth is truth. dont bring up how people who guarded pierce wasn't in rodman's league in the offs. if you bring that up. exhibit A, and B. i showed you Bruce Bowen during the season. Bruce bowen is the Best SF defender in the nba STILL, and was the best SF defender when he was 30 years old. 30 year old bowen was worked over by Pierce. old man bowen was also WORKED over by Pierce. So there goes your "what if a superiour defender guards him?" question answered. like i said, PROVE IT.. you can't. because no one is stopping pp. its one reason he smells himself and feels that they need to mention him alongside kobe( i dont think they do, but im a laker fan, celtic fan, aka kobe lover). Shaq called pierce "THE TRUTH" when he played against kobe and snaq in staples. why? how many points this PP put up? Is shaq a lie in this case? sure shaq is a lie alot of times. but was he telling the truth? Yes, he was correct. PP is the truth. again, just because a guy isn't flying thru the air like Mjay doesn't mean he isn't getting it done.


p&p, I thought Paul Pierce was the most slippery man alive until you started in.

Ok, let me get this straight. Pierce is "UNCHECKABLE" (caps yours), but he is not dominant. Pierce cannot be stopped (your wording) but he is not dominant. Pierce "ran through the NBA this year" (your phrasing) but he is not dominant. I'm as clear on what you're saying as you are about whether Shaq was telling the truth.

And you're free to build your team any way you see fit. I only mentioned your Webber pick because you have built Paul Pierce up to Hercules status, and yet you for some reason waited until your third pick to select him... just like every other GM in this league ignored picking Pierce any earlier.

Look, Pierce belongs in this game, but you have so inflated your description of his game that it is drawing this kind of response from several of the other GMs. You didn't even bother to say, "I think Rodman would have had trouble checking Pierce." You issued a pronouncement like it was the 11th Commandment; "Pierce is the uncheckable!" It just set off the detector. Since being called on it, you've gone on to dig yourself into a deeper hole.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:36 am    Post subject:

2Cleva wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
***DENNIS CAN"T CHECK PIERCE IN THE NO TOUCH ERA***. just like PIPPEN WOULDNT BE ABLED TO CHECK MAGIC IN THE NO TOUCH ERA***


Pippen able to check Magic? Not in the post. Magic would Baby Hook him to death.

But on the perimeter? It depends on the age of Magic. When he was younger - no way but an older Magic would have had problems getting by Pippen, especially since Magic didn't have the outside jumper to demand Pippen to play him tight.

Then again, Magic's game was never off the dribble except in transition. Magic would just back up Pippen and then spin off of him into the lane and wreck shop.


what you're saying makes since talking about someone else besides magic. magic didn't get by guys with this first step. he got by guys utilizing smarts (his body). when you paly vs guys who have the ability to use your leverage and their own. they're unguardable. its the same reason bad knee nick V was able to put up the numbers in dallas. same thing. he knows how to use his body well. same thing with pierce, Gp, etc, etc.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:38 am    Post subject:

TIME wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
TIME wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
Prove me wrong...


Ok, hold on one second while I hop into the WayBack machine with Mr. Peabody and go grab 30 year old Dennis Rodman to bring him back to our time so he can be burned over and over again by the force of nature, Category Five, hurricane of dominance, Paul Pierce.

Now, just to be clear on what you are saying here...

Pierce averaged how many points last season? 19.6? Pure dominance.

And he averaged how many in the six Finals games against the Lakers? 21.8? And this was being guarded most of the time by those giants of defence that the Lakers have at SF.

And how many did he average over the course of the entire playoffs? 19.7? Raising his game from the regular season an entire tenth of a point. We should call him Big Game Paul.

Keep in mind that NONE of the players guarding Pierce in the playoffs where he averaged a WHOPPING 19.7ppg were ever remotely in Rodman's league as a man defender.

But, yeah, sure, if you want to insist that Rodman could not check him I suppose I should ignore the facts and take your word for it.


who said pierce was dominant? i didn't. I said he would not be slowed or stopped by Drodman. thats all i said. and that little bitty 19 per was enough to do what? Get a championship as Finals MVP. and again like i said, dont be so enamored with high scoring players when thinking about them playing alongside other high scoring players. odd are someone will have to take a backseat. odds are everyone's scoring average will suffer a bit. The thing is, with pierce's scoring average taking a backseat, what happened? HE WON A CHAMPIONSHIP AS FINALS MVP. He also RAN THRU THE NBA this past season. i didn't like it it either. i hate... wait a second. I HATE BOSTON

but truth is truth. dont bring up how people who guarded pierce wasn't in rodman's league in the offs. if you bring that up. exhibit A, and B. i showed you Bruce Bowen during the season. Bruce bowen is the Best SF defender in the nba STILL, and was the best SF defender when he was 30 years old. 30 year old bowen was worked over by Pierce. old man bowen was also WORKED over by Pierce. So there goes your "what if a superiour defender guards him?" question answered. like i said, PROVE IT.. you can't. because no one is stopping pp. its one reason he smells himself and feels that they need to mention him alongside kobe( i dont think they do, but im a laker fan, celtic fan, aka kobe lover). Shaq called pierce "THE TRUTH" when he played against kobe and snaq in staples. why? how many points this PP put up? Is shaq a lie in this case? sure shaq is a lie alot of times. but was he telling the truth? Yes, he was correct. PP is the truth. again, just because a guy isn't flying thru the air like Mjay doesn't mean he isn't getting it done.


p&p, I thought Paul Pierce was the most slippery man alive until you started in.

Ok, let me get this straight. Pierce is "UNCHECKABLE" (caps yours), but he is not dominant. Pierce cannot be stopped (your wording) but he is not dominant. Pierce "ran through the NBA this year" (your phrasing) but he is not dominant. I'm as clear on what you're saying as you are about whether Shaq was telling the truth.

And you're free to build your team any way you see fit. I only mentioned your Webber pick because you have built Paul Pierce up to Hercules status, and yet you for some reason waite d until your third pick to select him... just like every other GM in this league ignored picking Pierce any earlier.
again dont worry about what i said, I gave you stastical proof vs the best SF defender in this era. So why is it that you dont want to talk about that? HOLA? HOLA? because that prove my point.
Look, Pierce belongs in this game, but you have so inflated your description of his game that it is drawing this kind of response from several of the other GMs. You didn't even bother to say, "I think Rodman would have had trouble checking Pierce." You issued a pronouncement like it was the 11th Commandment; "Pierce is the uncheckable!" It just set off the detector. Since being called on it, you've gone on to dig yourself into a deeper hole.


pierce wasn't dominant because he had 2 other superstars on his team. NO NEED TO BE DOMINANT. get the point? and yes Pierce in the NO TOUCH era is UNCHECKABLE by Drodman. i said it. and I'm sticking to it.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:57 am    Post subject:

As the GM who drafted in the relatively same position as you, I think the whole idea of draft slot and the quality of your team is overrated. Yes, big names are nice, but if you are in the playoffs you are in because your team was judged good enough to be there.

If you want to prove your team is superior you need to answer the question of how you beat your opponent. That is why the game plan format was created the way it was, because at this point you are not selling your team you are selling YOU as a GM/Coach and how you use your team. All this chest thumping about GP, Paul Pierce and Moses is understandable, but your bravado doesn't sell to the judges who are interested in more than "nobody can check him" or "my team is the most clutch". What kind of plays do you run, what kind of defense do you utilize, how do you adjust - these are the questions that matter.

BTW, the best way of defending your team is not trashing the other team. Just because you say a player can't do something doesn't mean he can't. I think this is where you let your opinion get in the way of really breaking a team down.

The time of selling your team is over, now you have to show what you know about the game, how to maximize the talent you have vs. the talent on the other team - the same way the Phil Jacksons and the Pat Rileys and the Chuck Dalys did it.

Game recognizes game. If you are talking smack right now...it shows how little faith you have in your team and your skills as a GM.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:33 pm    Post subject:

hsenation wrote:
As the GM who drafted in the relatively same position as you, I think the whole idea of draft slot and the quality of your team is overrated. Yes, big names are nice, but if you are in the playoffs you are in because your team was judged good enough to be there.

If you want to prove your team is superior you need to answer the question of how you beat your opponent. That is why the game plan format was created the way it was, because at this point you are not selling your team you are selling YOU as a GM/Coach and how you use your team. All this chest thumping about GP, Paul Pierce and Moses is understandable, but your bravado doesn't sell to the judges who are interested in more than "nobody can check him" or "my team is the most clutch". What kind of plays do you run, what kind of defense do you utilize, how do you adjust - these are the questions that matter.

BTW, the best way of defending your team is not trashing the other team. Just because you say a player can't do something doesn't mean he can't. I think this is where you let your opinion get in the way of really breaking a team down.

The time of selling your team is over, now you have to show what you know about the game, how to maximize the talent you have vs. the talent on the other team - the same way the Phil Jacksons and the Pat Rileys and the Chuck Dalys did it.

Game recognizes game. If you are talking smack right now...it shows how little faith you have in your team and your skills as a GM.


whamp, whamp, whamp.

I sold my team already. i'm selling the fact that drodman aint about to shutdown finals mvp pierce in the "no touch" era. that was my point with the back n forth.

and you're wrong. the best way to defend your team is by blasting HOLES in the opponents soft spots and talking up your own strengths. this is not a Be nice competition. If you have a hole (which we all do). I will exploit it and let it be known I'm exploiting it. If i sell myself as a GM, what am I saying, "My guys are better then your guys." If I'm selling the fact that I'm a better coach, My game plan is better then your game plan.

So My guys better then your guys + My game plan is better then yours= I WIN. unless you can prove otherwise. thats the point. you dont have to like how i went about it. was the info asked in their?YEP, was it in perfect exact order? no. did i add something else to it? of course i did. thats what you have to do when you're the underdog, because most of the guys in the offs have sexier names then you.

did you really think i didnt prepare for the "cwebb aint clutch, eddie jones aint clutch" comments? of course i did. thats why i plug the holes before the water starts to leak out. i also picked certain guys to also help with pluging those holes before anyone of you say a word. thats call proactive, not reactive.

a huge portion of my gameplan IS in my GM work(the guys i chose). some people say "closing is a problem". how so? when was the last time Cwebb Choked off and end game situation in the playoffs vs a top notch team.....College? right. has nothing to do with the nba. when was the last time eddie jones as 4th or 5th option was even put in a position to miss a wide open shot to seal a game? not going to happen. and if push comes to shove which i stated in the writeups, thats what elie/fisher are for. when have those two let you down in the offs? not often. how many clutch shots have those two hit? more then enough to cover up anything negative vibe you can get from eddie. but if eddie was a sexy name. no matter if the guy did well in the offs or not. no one would see him as anti clutch.

they say we're vulnerable at the 4 spot defensively.. How so? when was the last time someone put up huge numbers as a PF vs Chris webber pre old man webb? it didn't happen. and if by chance it did. I'll bet you chris matched that guys numbers. meaning I can't guard you, and you can't guard me either its a wash. he also use to play center from time to time. why? to play DEFENSE on centers also. you dont get called to move to a different position to play defense if you're not at minimum a solid defender. any big man averaging over a steal and a half and darn near 2 blocks per can't be considered a liability on defense. which means there can't be an assumption of vulenrability at that position. so why would one think that? its a perception he got playing with the queens. an offense first, 2nd and 3rd team. to prove that point. people see Gp as a lockdown pg defender, but most dont call even a prime eddie jones a lockdown defender(solid to very good, sure, steals machine.. sure). Why? because eddie jones again didn't play for a team with a coach that stated "we play defense first, before anything else happens, like George karl use to say." its a perception. perception is not always reality. perception is dennis rodman can guard anyone in his day. reality is he can't shutdown or even slow ppierce in this era of phantom calls and dont get to close to a guy on the perimeter or else.

last but not least hs, i think you have a nice team under the circumstances of your draft slot. You had to create a true TEAM vs a team full of Super names, more or less like the guy you face in rd 1(whom i'm not mad at, it is what it is)
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hsenation
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:46 pm    Post subject:

the more you post, the more entertaining it is...

I get where you are coming from, that because you are the underdog you have to go on the offensive. Pointing out weaknesses, again, I get that...even the don't have to be nice I fully get.

What I have a problem with is you make these claims, that you purport as fact, and never back them up. You say these statements and then you dare everyone to prove you wrong, when you haven't even proved them yourself. You just say something and expect us to believe you. Even your so called proof using Bruce Bowen was built on your opinion that Bowen and Rodman are comparable. I don't agree with that, and others don't either. TIME gave you proof to back up his opinion that Paul Pierce isn't as great as you say he is. Of course, you ignored it...

In this game, you are judged not just on perception of the players, but on perception of the GM. If you want to make claims to the greatness of your players, don't tell me to prove you wrong - my perception and I think most people in the ATL don't think that way. YOU PROVE IT TO ME. If you are gonna say that CWebb is so wonderful don't just tell me and expect me to take it as fact. Tell me how Sacramento was nowhere and when he arrived they turned into a winner. That I would believe...But geez, no PF has put big numbers up against him?...c'mon, I dare YOU to prove that.

Keep posting, dude...like I said, each post gets more entertaining...and enlightening.
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postandpivot
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:56 pm    Post subject:

hsenation wrote:
the more you post, the more entertaining it is...

I get where you are coming from, that because you are the underdog you have to go on the offensive. Pointing out weaknesses, again, I get that...even the don't have to be nice I fully get.

What I have a problem with is you make these claims, that you purport as fact, and never back them up. You say these statements and then you dare everyone to prove you wrong, when you haven't even proved them yourself. You just say something and expect us to believe you. Even your so called proof using Bruce Bowen was built on your opinion that Bowen and Rodman are comparable. I don't agree with that, and others don't either. TIME gave you proof to back up his opinion that Paul Pierce isn't as great as you say he is. Of course, you ignored it...

In this game, you are judged not just on perception of the players, but on perception of the GM. If you want to make claims to the greatness of your players, don't tell me to prove you wrong - my perception and I think most people in the ATL don't think that way. YOU PROVE IT TO ME. If you are gonna say that CWebb is so wonderful don't just tell me and expect me to take it as fact. Tell me how Sacramento was nowhere and when he arrived they turned into a winner. That I would believe...But geez, no PF has put big numbers up against him?...c'mon, I dare YOU to prove that.



Keep posting, dude...like I said, each post gets more entertaining...and enlightening.


See there I said No pf has put up huge numbers against Cwebb.... and if they have(cause I'm to lazy to check ha haa ) he put up numbers right back. which means what? its a wash.

and again You say Bowen isn't comparable to dennis rodman. and I ask, WHY NOT? Rodman didn't get to play his best defensive days in this pillow soft era of dont touch. neither did pippen to add someone to the list. like i said before.. what pippen did to magic could only be done in that old era. that same style of clutch/grab/hold/push, guide the offensive guy with your hand only works in that era (unless its vs kobe). So again, answer this. who in this era of no touch is the closest you can get to calling the best lockdown defender at the 3 spot? I say Bruce Lee bowen.

when you do these things, you have to try and port people from era to era. the best way to do that is to find a similar guy that is already in that era then say "what has guy X, done vs guy y" thats why i showed bruce bowen. now dont ever say i didn't prove my point. just say you didn't like the way i proved it because you didn't look at it like that.
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jamas33
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:17 pm    Post subject:

ok ok ok.. here goes.. I'm gonna make a statement.. cuz I know the judges cannot go to this thread..
PostandPivot I predict I will sweep you. You made statements that I dont think any guys in their right basketball mind will say... You really believe what you say? ok lets make it interesting.. lets put a DOLLAR BET on it?
how about $1,000 dollars that say my team beats yours according to ATL judges? PUt your money where your mouth is? agreed? 10 Benjamins.. lets do this. If you are in Los ANgeles or Southern California. we all can meet for a nice drink/coffee or something with other folks that post on LG.. and we make the payment there? Agreed? or you gonna talk you gonna run your mouth again without backing it up?

Here goes. Your Team or Mines... Your Gameplan or Mines.. Let the ATL Judges decide... $1,000 dollar to the winner?

just trying to figure out if you really believe in your drivel or you just want negative attention.
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hsenation
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:18 pm    Post subject:

I will say something that no one else has said yet.

You win.

I don't like the way you proved your point. And, like you, I will stick by my opinion.

It's better that way, we can maintain the balance of the universe much easier...dogs and cats will get along, ebony and ivory living in perfect harmony...what a wonderful world this would be.
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hsenation
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:28 pm    Post subject:

uh, in this judge off...

who pays for the coffee? can I order dessert? will appetizers be served? do we have to dress up, or can I just come in my overalls from working in the field? do we have to pay the automatic gratuity for a party of 8 or more? is there a choice of syrup? can I substitute boca burgers? is there a cover charge and a two drink minimum? will I be able to put the dollar bills directly into the "entertainer's" bottom, or do I hand it to them? do they accept ATM cards? will I be carded? if I only eat one slice of pizza will I have to pay an equal share of the bill? if I have shoe and no shirt, will I still get service? can I get change to play that game with the claw? can I get ranch with that? where's the restroom? do I look fat in these jeans? are you my real dad?

ooh, did you say $1000?
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postandpivot
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:30 pm    Post subject:

jamas33 wrote:
ok ok ok.. here goes.. I'm gonna make a statement.. cuz I know the judges cannot go to this thread..
PostandPivot I predict I will sweep you. You made statements that I dont think any guys in their right basketball mind will say... You really believe what you say? ok lets make it interesting.. lets put a DOLLAR BET on it?
how about $1,000 dollars that say my team beats yours according to ATL judges? PUt your money where your mouth is? agreed? 10 Benjamins.. lets do this. If you are in Los ANgeles or Southern California. we all can meet for a nice drink/coffee or something with other folks that post on LG.. and we make the payment there? Agreed? or you gonna talk you gonna run your mouth again without backing it up?

Here goes. Your Team or Mines... Your Gameplan or Mines.. Let the ATL Judges decide... $1,000 dollar to the winner?

just trying to figure out if you really believe in your drivel or you just want negative attention.

if you want to bet on basketball call donaghy.

no matter who wins. I will say it until I'm blue in the face. your biggest mistake was taking it to the new school no touch era. you must have though it means eddie jones would never pick Tmacs pocket, or gp would never catch magic slipping (once, i'll admit). Non of my guys need hand checking to defend. Cwebb is the perfect zone busting player to have on your team. Bad move.

put it this way. if you would've left it alone with old school rules. you would most likely win regardless of my gameplan. because now you could make the rodman argument. which then takes away one of my bigger threats. if you look at the lineups. you can't guard my guy head up to slow or stop him at any position with the new era rules. but we can slow, camby(not necessary he slows himself he's not a scorer, no worries), sheed(all turn aroundjumpshot, only dunks on lob plays. and likes to defer in the 4th, he himself has stated, "i dont want to be the man". I always wanted sheed to be who he was at UNC. thats the sheed i hoped to see his entire career. he got jumpshot happy as every year passed by. when your bigmen are shooting jumpers all game, it means you run the risk of not being able to get off a quality high percentage shot when the game is on the line. actually vs a defensive team like mines you run the risk of being down a few points late. and setting yourself up for an obvious dribble drive with tmac or magical johnson. pack it in time. go ahead and kick it out to camby and sheed for another jumper or 3. odds are they will miss more then they will make. thats the problem with jumpshooting bigs that are not willing to get grimey in the paint. ask Tmac did his jumper fail him in the playoffs AAAgain in the final moments of crucial games?

so since you can't guard me at 5 positions. but i can guard you at 3 positions. and play your other 2 unguardables for the drive and let em shoot jumpers with a hand up. how is it that you're going to win?(sure the judges can choose anyone). but really, how is it that you're going to win? You giving me the ability to play illegal defense(legally with the new era) means i dont ever have to worry about magic posting up gary. i can double magic and still keep the lane clogged at the same time, because I refuse to guard rodman. if he's not around the paint and I'm not boxing him out(or attempting to). there's no reason for us to even pay attention to dennis. if dennis can go off for 25 pts. You deserve the win. more power to you.


Last edited by postandpivot on Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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postandpivot
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:34 pm    Post subject:

hsenation wrote:
I will say something that no one else has said yet.

You win.

I don't like the way you proved your point. And, like you, I will stick by my opinion.

It's better that way, we can maintain the balance of the universe much easier...dogs and cats will get along, ebony and ivory living in perfect harmony...what a wonderful world this would be.

i dont want to win. i made my point. and you made yours. and i have yet to see how you can say you can't use bruce bowen in this era as a rodman defensive lockdown guy comparison. you act as if its apples to oranges.

so no the cats are not safe yet
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L4L
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:39 pm    Post subject:

postandpivot wrote:

See there I said No pf has put up huge numbers against Cwebb.... and if they have(cause I'm to lazy to check ha haa ) he put up numbers right back. which means what? its a wash.


Do you just make up things that sound good (to you) and hope they're true?

Kevin Garnett COMMONLY out-played C-Webb by significant proportions. Of course there were games C-Webb got the better of him as well, but KG won most the battles.

Some of Garnett's better lines against C-Webb:
40pts, 7rbs, 6ast, 17 of 22 shooting
35pts, 18rbs, 9ast, 11 of 22 shooting
34pts, 17rbs, 4ast, 12 of 23 shooting
29pts, 24rbs, 8ast, 8 of 19 shooting
27pts, 24rbs, 4ast, 11 of 29 shooting

Duncan and Malone routinely outplayed him as well...
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hsenation
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:42 pm    Post subject:

Hi Mr. Claim, have you met Mr. Proof? Apparently not...
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hsenation
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:44 pm    Post subject:

L4L we will have to put you on detention for doing postandpivot's homework...
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:51 pm    Post subject:

I vote we mail potandpivot the ATL trophy right now because he is the only GM with 5 unguardable starters.
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postandpivot
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:53 pm    Post subject:

L4L wrote:
postandpivot wrote:

See there I said No pf has put up huge numbers against Cwebb.... and if they have(cause I'm to lazy to check ha haa ) he put up numbers right back. which means what? its a wash.


Do you just make up things that sound good (to you) and hope they're true?

Kevin Garnett COMMONLY out-played C-Webb by significant proportions. Of course there were games C-Webb got the better of him as well, but KG won most the battles.

Some of Garnett's better lines against C-Webb:
40pts, 7rbs, 6ast, 17 of 22 shooting
35pts, 18rbs, 9ast, 11 of 22 shooting
34pts, 17rbs, 4ast, 12 of 23 shooting
29pts, 24rbs, 8ast, 8 of 19 shooting
27pts, 24rbs, 4ast, 11 of 29 shooting

Duncan and Malone routinely outplayed him as well...

ha haa i told you i was to lazy to look this time.. hahaaaa .
and what did Cwebb have? to crush the rest of my lazy man's argument. i will admit i was running at the mouth about cwebb not getting the numbers put on him. dang you got me. but the stuff about rodman was truth.

but wait 11 of 29 thats not sexy KG. that says he made KG work for his points. 17 of 22 says Cwebb got DESTROYED but again what did cwebb have and when was this? if its not prior to the year i picked webb or the same year as i chose. it doesn't count.

and one more thing. come to think of it. i couldn't make that statment about no one putting the numbers on Cwebb anyway. cause there is always one guy or another who is on a team all alone with a million touches. so said guy is probably going to score like crazy. especially vs a team that isn't about defense first or 2nd. hence KG stats.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:03 pm    Post subject:

Dude, you've got to be kidding. KG's record against Sacramento version (and earlier) of C-Webb is 14-12 and that is with a categorically worse team for a majority of those years. He wasn't just collecting numbers, he was winning games.

Overall career head to head:
KG: 24ppg, 13rpg, 5apg, .497 FG%, 18.7 FGA
Webber: 20ppg, 10rpg, 3apg, .444 FG%, 19.5 FGA

Tell me who is stat collecting because they get all the touches again? KG is taking less attempts and doing it at a more efficient rate. The fact is C-Webb was NOT renowned defender and elite post players DID light him up.

Oh and just to tell you what C-Webb did in those games:
#1
KG: 40/7/6
C-Webb: 22/5/3

#2
KG: 29/24/8
C-Webb: 26/9/5

#3
KG: 35/18/9
C-Webb: 25/7/7

#4
KG: 27/24/4
C-Webb: 21/11/4

#5
KG: 34/17/4
C-Webb: 15/15/2
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:08 pm    Post subject:

postandpivot wrote:
but the stuff about rodman was truth.


Right...

Dennis Rodman one of the most versatile defenders of all time who spent time guarding everyone from Magic, Michael, Larry Bird, Karl Malone, and even Shaq couldn't check the mighty Paul Pierce who Vladimir Snowboardovic held to 22ppg on mid 40s FG%.

You don't think Dennis is a bit more athletic than Vlad and Luke? The thing you are neglecting is that Kobe DID have success against Pierce when he was manned up against him. Did he shut him down? Absolutely not. Was Pierce significantly slowed? YES. What if the Lakers had a shot blocking C like Camby back there to eliminate some mistakes on the perimeter? Pierce's numbers only go even further down.

If Dennis couldn't move his feet, if Dennis wasn't quick, if Dennis wasn't long, if Dennis didn't have pride, why the hell did he collect over 15 rebounds for MULTIPLE seasons against taller, stronger, and bigger men? It certainly wasn't for his boxing out techniques... I'll tell you how..

HE BEAT THEM TO THE BALL WITH HIS FEET.

Rodman is faster than Paul Pudgy Pierce.

Pierce is a solid player who belongs in this game but I've never seen someone so thoroughly overrate a player while trying to knock another one down with bogus factoids.
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hsenation
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:12 pm    Post subject:

hello, FedEx...how much would it cost to ship a trophy? Yeah, do you deliver to deserted islands?
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