Who is the best boxer of all time?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:21 pm    Post subject: Who is the best boxer of all time?

Since the other topic for top ten sports matchups turned into a boxing thread, I figured we could use another boxing-dedicated thread of its own.

Who is it? Does Ali hold the cake? Lewis? Sugar Ray Robinson? Some other boxer from another bygone era?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:24 pm    Post subject:

Ali.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:44 pm    Post subject:

Depends on the criteria. If we go pound-for-pound, I'd have to give it to Floyd Mayweather at this time. Dude had everything - speed, quicks, hand-eye coordination, skills, defense, footwork, except "big power" but at his weight class, he wasn't supposed to, and he was undefeated.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:18 pm    Post subject:

I think the title should 'Best Boxer of All Time You Have Seen' with you own eyes...

For me, it would be between Sugar Ray Leonard, Roy Jones, & Ali.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:20 pm    Post subject:

Ray Robinson
great chin, great boxer, great puncher and never ducked anyone ........

in our era,
Ali minus the last five year is a good choice. Anyone who can beat the US government always wins.

Ezzard Charles was a beast as well. Dude almost took the 0 from Marciano but Rocky caught him with a vicious shot

Floyd Mayweather retired undefeated but dude really got cautious and careful during his prime (and I don't blame him). Unlike like Ali, Charles, and Robinson, he ducked his main competition when he was in the greatest Welterweight class we've seen in a while.

He coulda fought Cotto. Passed for big pay day versus Oscar (smart "business" move)

He coulda fought Margarito, instead fought over the hill Arturo Gatti.

He coulda fought Margarito again (instead fought Hatton who had to jump from 40 to 47, easy pickings). Floyd would be in my top 15 though. That fight versus Diego Corrales was a classic technical clinic.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:24 pm    Post subject:

Pac Man!
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:33 pm    Post subject:

doughboy90650 wrote:
Ray Robinson
great chin, great boxer, great puncher and never ducked anyone ........

in our era,
Ali minus the last five year is a good choice. Anyone who can beat the US government always wins.

Ezzard Charles was a beast as well. Dude almost took the 0 from Marciano but Rocky caught him with a vicious shot

Floyd Mayweather retired undefeated but dude really got cautious and careful during his prime (and I don't blame him). Unlike like Ali, Charles, and Robinson, he ducked his main competition when he was in the greatest Welterweight class we've seen in a while.

He coulda fought Cotto. Passed for big pay day versus Oscar (smart "business" move)

He coulda fought Margarito, instead fought over the hill Arturo Gatti.

He coulda fought Margarito again (instead fought Hatton who had to jump from 40 to 47, easy pickings). Floyd would be in my top 15 though. That fight versus Diego Corrales was a classic technical clinic.


Yeah, most of those were business moves rather than "ducking," so I can't agree with those.

And most people thought he was gonna take a beating from Gatti, and he just made Gatti look like a sparring partner. That was sad. So taking on Gatti over Margarito is basically a lateral move when you consider dangerousness.

Fighting Oscar was still a risk, and would have been the same move as fighting Cotto because Oscar wasn't some chump.

He also took on brawler Calzhage and demolished him. He could've easily ducked him, he's as dangerous asanyone you claimed he ducked.

So he didn't "duck" anyone as much as he just simply "took the better fight for the best cheddar possible" because the fights he took over those dudes were still fights he could've lost.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:01 pm    Post subject:

LuxuryBrown wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
Ray Robinson
great chin, great boxer, great puncher and never ducked anyone ........

in our era,
Ali minus the last five year is a good choice. Anyone who can beat the US government always wins.

Ezzard Charles was a beast as well. Dude almost took the 0 from Marciano but Rocky caught him with a vicious shot

Floyd Mayweather retired undefeated but dude really got cautious and careful during his prime (and I don't blame him). Unlike like Ali, Charles, and Robinson, he ducked his main competition when he was in the greatest Welterweight class we've seen in a while.

He coulda fought Cotto. Passed for big pay day versus Oscar (smart "business" move)

He coulda fought Margarito, instead fought over the hill Arturo Gatti.

He coulda fought Margarito again (instead fought Hatton who had to jump from 40 to 47, easy pickings). Floyd would be in my top 15 though. That fight versus Diego Corrales was a classic technical clinic.


Yeah, most of those were business moves rather than "ducking," so I can't agree with those.

And most people thought he was gonna take a beating from Gatti, and he just made Gatti look like a sparring partner. That was sad. So taking on Gatti over Margarito is basically a lateral move when you consider dangerousness.

Fighting Oscar was still a risk, and would have been the same move as fighting Cotto because Oscar wasn't some chump.

He also took on brawler Calzhage and demolished him. He could've easily ducked him, he's as dangerous asanyone you claimed he ducked.

So he didn't "duck" anyone as much as he just simply "took the better fight for the best cheddar possible" because the fights he took over those dudes were still fights he could've lost.


Floyd never fought Calzaghe. Joe is not in his weight class. Joe's running 168 and 175.

And he wasn't gonna take a beating from Gatti. Granted, I do give Floyd credit for fighting Gatti in Jersey, but Gatti is basically defined as a heay bag. He doesn't move, he's slow and his trilogy with Micky Ward basically ended his career. Gatti was done when he fought Floyd.

Fighting Oscar was a risk, but even Oscar was a shell of himself. Yes, he was still dangerous and had that left hook but it just wasn't the same Oscar. Too busy singing and promoting and not consistently being active in the ring.

The only fight he could have really lost was against Oscar. Against Hatton, bigger and faster and fighting a brawler with limited boxing skills. Floyd's defense won that fight.

So unlike Leonard, Hearns, Duran and Hagler, who all fought each other many times, Floyd could have mixed it up with Margarito, Cotto or even slick Paul Williams. I will give him credit for Oscar, Corrales (@ 140) and myabe even that Judah fight. He did lose that first fight with Jose Luis Castillo.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:06 pm    Post subject:

Free_Kobe wrote:
Pac Man!


right now, the best fighter pound for pound .... i don't see why he's turning down 15 million to fight Oscar. And he would be jumping two weight classes if they fought at 154.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:09 pm    Post subject:

when focused and in his prime, Roy Jones was a bad boy too .......
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:51 pm    Post subject:

doughboy90650 wrote:
LuxuryBrown wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
Ray Robinson
great chin, great boxer, great puncher and never ducked anyone ........

in our era,
Ali minus the last five year is a good choice. Anyone who can beat the US government always wins.

Ezzard Charles was a beast as well. Dude almost took the 0 from Marciano but Rocky caught him with a vicious shot

Floyd Mayweather retired undefeated but dude really got cautious and careful during his prime (and I don't blame him). Unlike like Ali, Charles, and Robinson, he ducked his main competition when he was in the greatest Welterweight class we've seen in a while.

He coulda fought Cotto. Passed for big pay day versus Oscar (smart "business" move)

He coulda fought Margarito, instead fought over the hill Arturo Gatti.

He coulda fought Margarito again (instead fought Hatton who had to jump from 40 to 47, easy pickings). Floyd would be in my top 15 though. That fight versus Diego Corrales was a classic technical clinic.


Yeah, most of those were business moves rather than "ducking," so I can't agree with those.

And most people thought he was gonna take a beating from Gatti, and he just made Gatti look like a sparring partner. That was sad. So taking on Gatti over Margarito is basically a lateral move when you consider dangerousness.

Fighting Oscar was still a risk, and would have been the same move as fighting Cotto because Oscar wasn't some chump.

He also took on brawler Calzhage and demolished him. He could've easily ducked him, he's as dangerous asanyone you claimed he ducked.

So he didn't "duck" anyone as much as he just simply "took the better fight for the best cheddar possible" because the fights he took over those dudes were still fights he could've lost.


Floyd never fought Calzaghe. Joe is not in his weight class. Joe's running 168 and 175.

And he wasn't gonna take a beating from Gatti. Granted, I do give Floyd credit for fighting Gatti in Jersey, but Gatti is basically defined as a heay bag. He doesn't move, he's slow and his trilogy with Micky Ward basically ended his career. Gatti was done when he fought Floyd.

Fighting Oscar was a risk, but even Oscar was a shell of himself. Yes, he was still dangerous and had that left hook but it just wasn't the same Oscar. Too busy singing and promoting and not consistently being active in the ring.

The only fight he could have really lost was against Oscar. Against Hatton, bigger and faster and fighting a brawler with limited boxing skills. Floyd's defense won that fight.

So unlike Leonard, Hearns, Duran and Hagler, who all fought each other many times, Floyd could have mixed it up with Margarito, Cotto or even slick Paul Williams. I will give him credit for Oscar, Corrales (@ 140) and myabe even that Judah fight. He did lose that first fight with Jose Luis Castillo.


My bad - not Calzhage, I meant Hatton.

And Gatti was done because Floyd "done-him" . Gatti could've fought anybody else that night and he wouldn't have looked as bad as he did. Floyd "clinic-ed" his ass.

And I don't know how you can say Oscar was a shell of himself when he just got through destroying wild man Mayorga the fight before.

But it seems like you wanted him to fight guys that he STILL would've beaten, since they weren't any better than the guys he took on despite the dudes he declined. And those guys he did fight that you said were either a shell of themselves or worse, more than likely looked that way because they were fighting a superior fighter.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:12 pm    Post subject:

Styles make fights. You know that. Mayorga was perfect for Oscar. Dude stands there and takes shots. And after Tito retired him, he comes back and fights Oscar a year later and rusty for a pay day ...... so Mayorga is a bad example.

I just think Floyd, who is still in his prime, had/has the opportunity to really put a stamp on his legacy. Oscar didn't duck people. I will definitely give him that. But Gatti, who had just turned 33 and was definitely on the decline, could have easily been replaced by a Cotto or Margarito. Even when you look at some of Floyd interviews, you can tell he's duckin'.

Eight million dollars he turned down to fight Margarito to fight a Gatti? Huh???

Gatti, Mitchell, Judah and Baldomir < Margarito

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOSYzIKJFro
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:29 pm    Post subject:

doughboy90650 wrote:
Styles make fights. You know that. Mayorga was perfect for Oscar. Dude stands there and takes shots. And after Tito retired him, he comes back and fights Oscar a year later and rusty for a pay day ...... so Mayorga is a bad example.

I just think Floyd, who is still in his prime, had/has the opportunity to really put a stamp on his legacy. Oscar didn't duck people. I will definitely give him that. But Gatti, who had just turned 33 and was definitely on the decline, could have easily been replaced by a Cotto or Margarito. Even when you look at some of Floyd interviews, you can tell he's duckin'.

Eight million dollars he turned down to fight Margarito to fight a Gatti? Huh???

Gatti, Mitchell, Judah and Baldomir < Margarito

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOSYzIKJFro


Yes, styles make fights, and here we had a dude that smoked about 200 packs a day WHILE training in Mayorga, so any rust from layoffs for him is blown out of proportion.

And ah! Oscar DID in fact duck fights. This was one of the biggest criticisms early on in hs career but he ducked them for the same reasons that Floyd took other fights, yet a lot of people think oscar was scared. Then Oscar decided to try and become the vaunted "Mexican Fighter" that people always accused him of NOT being, and he started taking on ALL COMERS, and to that he got my ULTIMATE RESPECT.

How much did Floyd get to fight Gatti?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:27 am    Post subject:

doughboy90650 wrote:
when focused and in his prime, Roy Jones was a bad boy too .......
In his prime, he was as close to unbeatable as they come....
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:28 am    Post subject:

LuxuryBrown wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
Styles make fights. You know that. Mayorga was perfect for Oscar. Dude stands there and takes shots. And after Tito retired him, he comes back and fights Oscar a year later and rusty for a pay day ...... so Mayorga is a bad example.

I just think Floyd, who is still in his prime, had/has the opportunity to really put a stamp on his legacy. Oscar didn't duck people. I will definitely give him that. But Gatti, who had just turned 33 and was definitely on the decline, could have easily been replaced by a Cotto or Margarito. Even when you look at some of Floyd interviews, you can tell he's duckin'.

Eight million dollars he turned down to fight Margarito to fight a Gatti? Huh???

Gatti, Mitchell, Judah and Baldomir < Margarito

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOSYzIKJFro


Yes, styles make fights, and here we had a dude that smoked about 200 packs a day WHILE training in Mayorga, so any rust from layoffs for him is blown out of proportion.

And ah! Oscar DID in fact duck fights. This was one of the biggest criticisms early on in hs career but he ducked them for the same reasons that Floyd took other fights, yet a lot of people think oscar was scared. Then Oscar decided to try and become the vaunted "Mexican Fighter" that people always accused him of NOT being, and he started taking on ALL COMERS, and to that he got my ULTIMATE RESPECT.

How much did Floyd get to fight Gatti?


Early in his career, I wouldn't call it ducking. I call it fighting lesser opponents to build his record up. By his 15th fight, he fought Paez who was a decent lightweight and then spank one of the Ruelas a year later. I think people wanted him to jump right into fighting the best at 130 right away before his career started. Towards the middle of his career, you might could make a point as he was fighting retirement row, even though they were still decent fighters in Chavez, Camacho and Whitaker, a fight that I thought he lost.


His pay per view number against Gatti generated 16.5 million bones and even if he got 10% of that pie, he still wouldn't have been paid the amount of loot to fight Margarito.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=2093772&type=story

Floyd made 2.5 million off that fight

Arum was gonna front Floyd 8 million plus part of the PPV receipts ..... You're looking at a possible 10 to 10.75 million dollar payday. Maybe as high as 12.

He made up for it versus Hatton and Oscar though .... over 40 million for two fights.


Last edited by doughboy90650 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:48 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:34 am    Post subject:

doughboy90650 wrote:
LuxuryBrown wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
Styles make fights. You know that. Mayorga was perfect for Oscar. Dude stands there and takes shots. And after Tito retired him, he comes back and fights Oscar a year later and rusty for a pay day ...... so Mayorga is a bad example.

I just think Floyd, who is still in his prime, had/has the opportunity to really put a stamp on his legacy. Oscar didn't duck people. I will definitely give him that. But Gatti, who had just turned 33 and was definitely on the decline, could have easily been replaced by a Cotto or Margarito. Even when you look at some of Floyd interviews, you can tell he's duckin'.

Eight million dollars he turned down to fight Margarito to fight a Gatti? Huh???

Gatti, Mitchell, Judah and Baldomir < Margarito

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOSYzIKJFro


Yes, styles make fights, and here we had a dude that smoked about 200 packs a day WHILE training in Mayorga, so any rust from layoffs for him is blown out of proportion.

And ah! Oscar DID in fact duck fights. This was one of the biggest criticisms early on in hs career but he ducked them for the same reasons that Floyd took other fights, yet a lot of people think oscar was scared. Then Oscar decided to try and become the vaunted "Mexican Fighter" that people always accused him of NOT being, and he started taking on ALL COMERS, and to that he got my ULTIMATE RESPECT.

How much did Floyd get to fight Gatti?


Early in his career, I wouldn't call it ducking. I call it fighting lesser opponents to build his record up. By his 15th fight, he fought Paez who was a decent lightweight and then spank one of the Ruelas a year later. I think people wanted him to jump right into fighting the best at 130 right away before his career started. Towards the middle of his career, you might could make a point as he was fighting retirement row, even though they were still decent fighters in Chavez, Camacho and Whitaker, a fight that I thought he lost.


That's how I saw it... I don't think (at least to me) De La Hoya ducked anybody. His handlers did a great job in choosing his earlier fights.

The Whitaker fight was close... I had De La Hoya, but then again, I was a De La Hoya fan.... on the same note, and I've rewatched the fight a bunch of times... De La Hoya did not lose to Felix Trinadad. If you when 7 rounds and the fight goes the distance, how do you lose? It's been a while, but I think I had De La Hoya winning 7 of the first 9 rounds...
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:41 am    Post subject:

TACH wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
LuxuryBrown wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
Styles make fights. You know that. Mayorga was perfect for Oscar. Dude stands there and takes shots. And after Tito retired him, he comes back and fights Oscar a year later and rusty for a pay day ...... so Mayorga is a bad example.

I just think Floyd, who is still in his prime, had/has the opportunity to really put a stamp on his legacy. Oscar didn't duck people. I will definitely give him that. But Gatti, who had just turned 33 and was definitely on the decline, could have easily been replaced by a Cotto or Margarito. Even when you look at some of Floyd interviews, you can tell he's duckin'.

Eight million dollars he turned down to fight Margarito to fight a Gatti? Huh???

Gatti, Mitchell, Judah and Baldomir < Margarito

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOSYzIKJFro


Yes, styles make fights, and here we had a dude that smoked about 200 packs a day WHILE training in Mayorga, so any rust from layoffs for him is blown out of proportion.

And ah! Oscar DID in fact duck fights. This was one of the biggest criticisms early on in hs career but he ducked them for the same reasons that Floyd took other fights, yet a lot of people think oscar was scared. Then Oscar decided to try and become the vaunted "Mexican Fighter" that people always accused him of NOT being, and he started taking on ALL COMERS, and to that he got my ULTIMATE RESPECT.

How much did Floyd get to fight Gatti?


Early in his career, I wouldn't call it ducking. I call it fighting lesser opponents to build his record up. By his 15th fight, he fought Paez who was a decent lightweight and then spank one of the Ruelas a year later. I think people wanted him to jump right into fighting the best at 130 right away before his career started. Towards the middle of his career, you might could make a point as he was fighting retirement row, even though they were still decent fighters in Chavez, Camacho and Whitaker, a fight that I thought he lost.


That's how I saw it... I don't think (at least to me) De La Hoya ducked anybody. His handlers did a great job in choosing his earlier fights.

The Whitaker fight was close... I had De La Hoya, but then again, I was a De La Hoya fan.... on the same note, and I've rewatched the fight a bunch of times... De La Hoya did not lose to Felix Trinadad. If you when 7 rounds and the fight goes the distance, how do you lose? It's been a while, but I think I had De La Hoya winning 7 of the first 9 rounds...


Oscar definitely cheated himself in that fight. Before they took matches down to 10 and 12 rounds, your championship rounds were 13-15. So from round 9-12, the new championship rounds, Oscar ducked and dodged. I still think he did more than enough to win but you never want to leave your outcome in the hands of three people who sitting outside the ring. Any sport that has judges, be it figure skating or boxing, can be corrupted. He shoulda finished that fight. Tito had no answer him.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:53 am    Post subject:

TACH wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
when focused and in his prime, Roy Jones was a bad boy too .......
In his prime, he was as close to unbeatable as they come....


Roy just didn't have anyone to really fight at 168 and 175. I wish he had fought Dariusz Michalczewski, but I can see why he didn't. You go overseas, win the fight in the ring and still go home with no belts.

He fought Hopkins early in B-Hop's career and James Toney win was huge. But he had alotta no names on his resume.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:51 am    Post subject:

doughboy90650 wrote:
LuxuryBrown wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
Styles make fights. You know that. Mayorga was perfect for Oscar. Dude stands there and takes shots. And after Tito retired him, he comes back and fights Oscar a year later and rusty for a pay day ...... so Mayorga is a bad example.

I just think Floyd, who is still in his prime, had/has the opportunity to really put a stamp on his legacy. Oscar didn't duck people. I will definitely give him that. But Gatti, who had just turned 33 and was definitely on the decline, could have easily been replaced by a Cotto or Margarito. Even when you look at some of Floyd interviews, you can tell he's duckin'.

Eight million dollars he turned down to fight Margarito to fight a Gatti? Huh???

Gatti, Mitchell, Judah and Baldomir < Margarito

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOSYzIKJFro


Yes, styles make fights, and here we had a dude that smoked about 200 packs a day WHILE training in Mayorga, so any rust from layoffs for him is blown out of proportion.

And ah! Oscar DID in fact duck fights. This was one of the biggest criticisms early on in hs career but he ducked them for the same reasons that Floyd took other fights, yet a lot of people think oscar was scared. Then Oscar decided to try and become the vaunted "Mexican Fighter" that people always accused him of NOT being, and he started taking on ALL COMERS, and to that he got my ULTIMATE RESPECT.

How much did Floyd get to fight Gatti?


Early in his career, I wouldn't call it ducking. I call it fighting lesser opponents to build his record up. By his 15th fight, he fought Paez who was a decent lightweight and then spank one of the Ruelas a year later. I think people wanted him to jump right into fighting the best at 130 right away before his career started. Towards the middle of his career, you might could make a point as he was fighting retirement row, even though they were still decent fighters in Chavez, Camacho and Whitaker, a fight that I thought he lost.


His pay per view number against Gatti generated 16.5 million bones and even if he got 10% of that pie, he still wouldn't have been paid the amount of loot to fight Margarito.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=2093772&type=story

Floyd made 2.5 million off that fight

Arum was gonna front Floyd 8 million plus part of the PPV receipts ..... You're looking at a possible 10 to 10.75 million dollar payday. Maybe as high as 12.

He made up for it versus Hatton and Oscar though .... over 40 million for two fights.


I see what Oscar did as ducking because he was taking a gang of criticism for it, but, if you call it what you called it, then Floyd basically did the same thing you called Oscar for doing, just at different parts of their careers.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:02 am    Post subject:

LuxuryBrown wrote:
Depends on the criteria. If we go pound-for-pound, I'd have to give it to Floyd Mayweather at this time. Dude had everything - speed, quicks, hand-eye coordination, skills, defense, footwork, except "big power" but at his weight class, he wasn't supposed to, and he was undefeated.


Leonard, Hagler, or Duran would have taken him apart.
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LuxuryBrown
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:01 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
LuxuryBrown wrote:
Depends on the criteria. If we go pound-for-pound, I'd have to give it to Floyd Mayweather at this time. Dude had everything - speed, quicks, hand-eye coordination, skills, defense, footwork, except "big power" but at his weight class, he wasn't supposed to, and he was undefeated.


Leonard, Hagler, or Duran would have taken him apart.


Only Leonard would have a shot. Hagler & Duran - Not even close to being fast enough to deal with Floyd.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:06 pm    Post subject:

TACH wrote:
I think the title should 'Best Boxer of All Time You Have Seen' with you own eyes...

For me, it would be between Sugar Ray Leonard, Roy Jones, & Ali.


does espn classic count?
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TACH
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:09 pm    Post subject:

LuxuryBrown wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
LuxuryBrown wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
Styles make fights. You know that. Mayorga was perfect for Oscar. Dude stands there and takes shots. And after Tito retired him, he comes back and fights Oscar a year later and rusty for a pay day ...... so Mayorga is a bad example.

I just think Floyd, who is still in his prime, had/has the opportunity to really put a stamp on his legacy. Oscar didn't duck people. I will definitely give him that. But Gatti, who had just turned 33 and was definitely on the decline, could have easily been replaced by a Cotto or Margarito. Even when you look at some of Floyd interviews, you can tell he's duckin'.

Eight million dollars he turned down to fight Margarito to fight a Gatti? Huh???

Gatti, Mitchell, Judah and Baldomir < Margarito

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOSYzIKJFro


Yes, styles make fights, and here we had a dude that smoked about 200 packs a day WHILE training in Mayorga, so any rust from layoffs for him is blown out of proportion.

And ah! Oscar DID in fact duck fights. This was one of the biggest criticisms early on in hs career but he ducked them for the same reasons that Floyd took other fights, yet a lot of people think oscar was scared. Then Oscar decided to try and become the vaunted "Mexican Fighter" that people always accused him of NOT being, and he started taking on ALL COMERS, and to that he got my ULTIMATE RESPECT.

How much did Floyd get to fight Gatti?


Early in his career, I wouldn't call it ducking. I call it fighting lesser opponents to build his record up. By his 15th fight, he fought Paez who was a decent lightweight and then spank one of the Ruelas a year later. I think people wanted him to jump right into fighting the best at 130 right away before his career started. Towards the middle of his career, you might could make a point as he was fighting retirement row, even though they were still decent fighters in Chavez, Camacho and Whitaker, a fight that I thought he lost.


His pay per view number against Gatti generated 16.5 million bones and even if he got 10% of that pie, he still wouldn't have been paid the amount of loot to fight Margarito.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=2093772&type=story

Floyd made 2.5 million off that fight

Arum was gonna front Floyd 8 million plus part of the PPV receipts ..... You're looking at a possible 10 to 10.75 million dollar payday. Maybe as high as 12.

He made up for it versus Hatton and Oscar though .... over 40 million for two fights.


I see what Oscar did as ducking because he was taking a gang of criticism for it, but, if you call it what you called it, then Floyd basically did the same thing you called Oscar for doing, just at different parts of their careers.
I won't call it ducking if you are a up and comer.... but if you hold a belt, a duck/dodge certain opponents (i.e. number 1 contender), you are guilty of ducking/dodging.
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dna.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:36 pm    Post subject:

Butterbean.
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LuxuryBrown
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:56 pm    Post subject:

TACH wrote:
LuxuryBrown wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
LuxuryBrown wrote:
doughboy90650 wrote:
Styles make fights. You know that. Mayorga was perfect for Oscar. Dude stands there and takes shots. And after Tito retired him, he comes back and fights Oscar a year later and rusty for a pay day ...... so Mayorga is a bad example.

I just think Floyd, who is still in his prime, had/has the opportunity to really put a stamp on his legacy. Oscar didn't duck people. I will definitely give him that. But Gatti, who had just turned 33 and was definitely on the decline, could have easily been replaced by a Cotto or Margarito. Even when you look at some of Floyd interviews, you can tell he's duckin'.

Eight million dollars he turned down to fight Margarito to fight a Gatti? Huh???

Gatti, Mitchell, Judah and Baldomir < Margarito

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOSYzIKJFro


Yes, styles make fights, and here we had a dude that smoked about 200 packs a day WHILE training in Mayorga, so any rust from layoffs for him is blown out of proportion.

And ah! Oscar DID in fact duck fights. This was one of the biggest criticisms early on in hs career but he ducked them for the same reasons that Floyd took other fights, yet a lot of people think oscar was scared. Then Oscar decided to try and become the vaunted "Mexican Fighter" that people always accused him of NOT being, and he started taking on ALL COMERS, and to that he got my ULTIMATE RESPECT.

How much did Floyd get to fight Gatti?


Early in his career, I wouldn't call it ducking. I call it fighting lesser opponents to build his record up. By his 15th fight, he fought Paez who was a decent lightweight and then spank one of the Ruelas a year later. I think people wanted him to jump right into fighting the best at 130 right away before his career started. Towards the middle of his career, you might could make a point as he was fighting retirement row, even though they were still decent fighters in Chavez, Camacho and Whitaker, a fight that I thought he lost.


His pay per view number against Gatti generated 16.5 million bones and even if he got 10% of that pie, he still wouldn't have been paid the amount of loot to fight Margarito.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=2093772&type=story

Floyd made 2.5 million off that fight

Arum was gonna front Floyd 8 million plus part of the PPV receipts ..... You're looking at a possible 10 to 10.75 million dollar payday. Maybe as high as 12.

He made up for it versus Hatton and Oscar though .... over 40 million for two fights.


I see what Oscar did as ducking because he was taking a gang of criticism for it, but, if you call it what you called it, then Floyd basically did the same thing you called Oscar for doing, just at different parts of their careers.
I won't call it ducking if you are a up and comer.... but if you hold a belt, a duck/dodge certain opponents (i.e. number 1 contender), you are guilty of ducking/dodging.


I'm pretty sure Oscar had a belt early on when he was ducking some of hose guys. Maybe Doughboy can clarify that.
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